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Rippingheadache
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:42 pm
Posts: 845
Location: Vietnam
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:13 pm 
 

ModusOperandi wrote:
Swedish death metal is a style where there's not much in-between for me. When it's good, it's obviously some of the all-time best the genre has to offer but when it's not, it can be absolutely boring and a slog to endure. I know full well that could be said about anything, but bands can get a little too reliant at times on prioritizing aping the guitar tone and endless tremolo riffs and production over quality and compelling songwriting.


This has been the case for me too. I love the big-leagues of the genre (Dismember, Grave, Entombed, etc) but the second-tier bands bore the hell out of me (Gorement, Epitaph, etc).

Always preferred the atypical Swedish bands like Seance, Morpheus and Crystal Age.

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TheLoneForest
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:16 pm
Posts: 192
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:15 pm 
 

booK_of_blood wrote:
Acrobat wrote:

Early Mercyful Fate is beyond criticism that’s why you have to pick on their spelling.


The most ridiculous claim ever made, this should be a classic signature, but I'm too lazy...

I do sincerely hope you're joking, though.


I got you

EDIT: nevermind it didn't work lmao


Last edited by TheLoneForest on Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
Posts: 5160
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:24 pm 
 

booK_of_blood wrote:

The most ridiculous claim ever made, this should be a classic signature, but I'm too lazy...


Got ya covered, fam. :thumbsup:
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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 1751
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:40 pm 
 

Rippingheadache wrote:
Always preferred the atypical Swedish bands like Seance, Morpheus and Crystal Age.


Thought I was the only one in the world who liked Morpheus! That's awesome :)!
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Rippingheadache
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:42 pm
Posts: 845
Location: Vietnam
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:44 pm 
 

Right on mah dude. Son of Hypnos gets trashed way too much. The production sounds alien as fuck, and I honestly wouldn't have it any other way.

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Rodman
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 445
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:57 am 
 

rexxz wrote:
Just so you know that guy is a terrible shit poster and troll, just take a look at his post history and you'll see what I mean. Full of ridiculous statements like that. And it's not like someone predicted this thread would be full of those kind of comments or anything... :rolleyes:


The thread is now on its 5th page and one person has behaved like a buffoon.

Is it really necessary to trash the whole thread? I for one have enjoyed reading people's contrarian opinions, and I've also been turned on to some classic albums/tracks whose 'sacred cow' status I was unaware of.

You don't deserve a prize for predicting that someone would act obnoxious on the internet...
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 5436
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:42 am 
 

Rippingheadache wrote:
ModusOperandi wrote:
Swedish death metal is a style where there's not much in-between for me. When it's good, it's obviously some of the all-time best the genre has to offer but when it's not, it can be absolutely boring and a slog to endure. I know full well that could be said about anything, but bands can get a little too reliant at times on prioritizing aping the guitar tone and endless tremolo riffs and production over quality and compelling songwriting.


This has been the case for me too. I love the big-leagues of the genre (Dismember, Grave, Entombed, etc) but the second-tier bands bore the hell out of me (Gorement, Epitaph, etc).

Always preferred the atypical Swedish bands like Seance, Morpheus and Crystal Age.


Interesting points. The big Swedish death metal albums are pretty much all classics, but some more obscure stuff (broadly speaking) like Utumno's Across the Horizon and Afflicted's Prodigal Sun rule, too.

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rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 9016
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:37 pm 
 

Rodman wrote:
rexxz wrote:
Just so you know that guy is a terrible shit poster and troll, just take a look at his post history and you'll see what I mean. Full of ridiculous statements like that. And it's not like someone predicted this thread would be full of those kind of comments or anything... :rolleyes:


The thread is now on its 5th page and one person has behaved like a buffoon.

Is it really necessary to trash the whole thread? I for one have enjoyed reading people's contrarian opinions, and I've also been turned on to some classic albums/tracks whose 'sacred cow' status I was unaware of.

You don't deserve a prize for predicting that someone would act obnoxious on the internet...


Not to drag this out anymore, but you are wrong on all of those points. More than one person, wasn't trashing the thread (simply stating the obvious; go search the +5 locked threads of this same topic created in the past for proof) and I never said I deserved a prize or acted like I wanted one. So miss me with that shit.
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Unity
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:42 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:38 pm 
 

As a big Black Metal fan, I'll have to mention Beherit's "Drawing Down The Moon". I already own (and enjoy) all of BM's classic albums, but I just can't get into this one. I must have heard it like five or six times and it just does nothing for me.
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raspberrysoda
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:51 pm
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Location: Edgystan
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:51 pm 
 

1. Beherit's Drawing Down the Moon is an excruciating borefest. It should not be as overhyped as it currently is.
2. Entombed peaked during Wolverine Blues. Left Hand Path is boring.
3. Opeth sucks. Really sucks.
4. Maiden's best album is Killers
5. King Diamond's vocals are 90% annoying and 10% on point
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ModusOperandi
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 1379
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:23 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
Rippingheadache wrote:
This has been the case for me too. I love the big-leagues of the genre (Dismember, Grave, Entombed, etc) but the second-tier bands bore the hell out of me (Gorement, Epitaph, etc).

Always preferred the atypical Swedish bands like Seance, Morpheus and Crystal Age.


Interesting points. The big Swedish death metal albums are pretty much all classics, but some more obscure stuff (broadly speaking) like Utumno's Across the Horizon and Afflicted's Prodigal Sun rule, too.

Those bands in particular you both mentioned are right in that sweet spot for me, not to take anything away from the bigger names, either. And I'm not shy about giving any band's recent output praise, too. Grave's last 3-4 albums, for example, are my most preferred of theirs. All Vomitory is great, but I also REALLY like Cut Up and am relieved they're continuing alongside the reunion shows next year.
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ingmar birdman
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:23 am
Posts: 182
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:57 pm 
 

Unity wrote:
As a big Black Metal fan, I'll have to mention Beherit's "Drawing Down The Moon". I already own (and enjoy) all of BM's classic albums, but I just can't get into this one. I must have heard it like five or six times and it just does nothing for me.


Although I'm a fan I can relate, it took me a ton of tries to appreciate DDTM. I think it wasn't until I started to get really into Ride for Revenge (and probably Demoncy too) that I found anything to enjoy about Beherit. I don't think it's a perfect album but it's quite good, imho.

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gasmask_colostomy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
Posts: 372
Location: Behind the wall of fire
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:49 am 
 

raspberrysoda wrote:
1. Beherit's Drawing Down the Moon is an excruciating borefest. It should not be as overhyped as it currently is.
2. Entombed peaked during Wolverine Blues. Left Hand Path is boring.
3. Opeth sucks. Really sucks.
4. Maiden's best album is Killers
5. King Diamond's vocals are 90% annoying and 10% on point


You, my brother, stand for all that is great and good in metal. When the shelling starts, I will provide covering fire for you.

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gasmask_colostomy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
Posts: 372
Location: Behind the wall of fire
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:53 am 
 

On my own train of thought:

1. Sepultura has never produced an album worthy of classic status. Beneath the Remains is decent thrash with horrible songwriting.
2. Satan may have been praised much too much for Court in the Act.
3. Ride the Lightning is distinctly mediocre as a thrash album.

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Five_Nails
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:34 pm
Posts: 500
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:32 am 
 

gasmask_colostomy wrote:
On my own train of thought:

1. Sepultura has never produced an album worthy of classic status. Beneath the Remains is decent thrash with horrible songwriting.
2. Satan may have been praised much too much for Court in the Act.
3. Ride the Lightning is distinctly mediocre as a thrash album.


Oh come on, at least that solo section in "Fight Fire With Fire" must kick your ass. It's not the best thrash album but man does it have some nastiness about it. I love how that chewy gristle turns into classical cadence just to scream at the Enlightenment that its despots didn't deserve the meat they got from those servile musicians of the age. :headbang:

'Ride The Lightning' isn't the best thrash album, but it doesn't need to be decapitated by this thread. It still has its shit together compared to what Metallica did later, excepting 'Master of Puppets' that is.

This thread is supposedly slaying dragons but it really is discussing underwhelming feelings towards albums deemed legendary.

Granted, this thread has thrashed a lot of albums I like and I do love that it does it in some ways, just wanted to interject about this one that really is pretty banal but I think a good amount of people on this thread need a bit more than iPod headphones and one distracted listen to gauge their metal proclivities. Is 'In the Nightside Eclipse' on here because someone lives in the city and has never seen a copse of trees? It's showing its uselessness when there is a site full of reviews that some of these folks can use to elaborate on their opinions. Instead it's "X album sucks and here's a list of more but they're soooooo popular". Wow, what a hot take.

This thread is as edgy as saying that Sabbath's first album isn't heavy metal (which was poorly done in a terrible thread not even a month ago). Yeah, I know it was addressed before, doesn't mean it's not as inane now. You want to shit on something, maybe come up with fifteen albums that are too disgusting for you to ever listen to and then make them more popular, then take on Rainbow and Rush just to really drive home how you like your sound to not be safe. I cringe at so many songs by bands but still don't think they deserve a total slaying. Fact of the matter is if a band sucks it doesn't deserve the "slaying of a sacred cow" because it isn't sacred to begin with. That album the band made had something going for it to be "sacred". Something that deserves slaying (off the top of my head "AJFA" and "Lulu") would have their reasons but already got their slayings, something like Chepang never deserved a glance in the first place. The 'sacred cows' thing is a caveat to say 'I'm so underground you don't know what I listen to' while tearing down the bands that were still built on the carcasses of your 'sacred cows'. How many bands play Morbid Angel better despite how weak the original band got over time? It's almost like when you're a young and hungry artist you're angry and when you've aged and can live off your earnings you calm down. Wow, real revelation there.

What about finding some, oh I don't know, maybe "hidden underground gems" and figuring out what you like about them? Oh no, that would be too hard to find the good in the piles of bad. It would take some agency and putting yourself out there to the point that liking something could leave you ridiculed by someone else.

I'm not a huge fan of this thread because it would be better directed if it were listing albums by non-metal bands that were overly lauded and it still wouldn't have a place here because it would be the same list over and over again. Seeing 'Bad' or 'Revolver' over and over listed by pretentious teenagers who say that old music sucked would be annoying, wouldn't it? On this site it's just as inane because plenty of popular albums already have their detractors in reviews who have better articulated what this thread aims to do, not to mention that most of what people are talking about isn't "popular" in the general public sense to begin with. It's like saying you liked Lorde better when she was just a small-town geologist playing Warcraft.

I liked Enslaved when they were in elementary school, everything after 'Nema' was garbage! Fuck 'Below the Lights'!

Slaying pigeons is more what this thread does, and it does it poorly with a bee-bee gun rather than crushes them under the ever-ready boot heel of the articulate heavy metal admonition that is already set to stomp, dissect, and understand every note that a band plays. Here's the next top thread: "Cannibal Corpse sold too many albums despite how lacking Mazurkiewicz is, mainstreaming in death metal will wreck the genre!"

This thread is inane and tearing me down for tearing down a thread that tears down albums that already get torn down in far better verbiage on the main site is its own inanity.
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Unity
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:42 pm
Posts: 1492
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:10 am 
 

ingmar birdman wrote:
Unity wrote:
As a big Black Metal fan, I'll have to mention Beherit's "Drawing Down The Moon". I already own (and enjoy) all of BM's classic albums, but I just can't get into this one. I must have heard it like five or six times and it just does nothing for me.


Although I'm a fan I can relate, it took me a ton of tries to appreciate DDTM. I think it wasn't until I started to get really into Ride for Revenge (and probably Demoncy too) that I found anything to enjoy about Beherit. I don't think it's a perfect album but it's quite good, imho.


Then I guess I need to check out Ride For Revenge and Demoncy! ;)
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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:29 pm 
 

gasmask_colostomy wrote:
On my own train of thought:

1. Sepultura has never produced an album worthy of classic status. Beneath the Remains is decent thrash with horrible songwriting.
2. Satan may have been praised much too much for Court in the Act.
3. Ride the Lightning is distinctly mediocre as a thrash album.


I agree wholeheartedly with the first two. Cavalera and Kisser were never great at riffing, only occasionally stumbling upon a great one.

RtL was EXTREMELY innovative.
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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 821
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:56 am 
 

Satan have not been praised enough for Court in the Act. They should be mentioned at least as much as Angelwitch or Diamond Head, ie one of the very best of the NWOBHM scene and beyond. Def. top 5 album. Speed, thrash, power, it was all there in 83 and it was hugely influential to all speed/thrash bands of the time, NOT a coincidence. FANTASTIC album.
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k311250
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:14 am
Posts: 144
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:29 pm 
 

Blasphemy. The fact that there's a lot of people buying the same 30 year old material in the form of various rehearsals and demos makes it even more pathetic. They've been milking the same songs for decades and only the 1989 Blood upon the Altar demo is good.


Last edited by k311250 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LordStenhammar
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 1480
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:30 am 
 

I listen to early Savatage stuff and Power of the Night rather than Hall of the Mountain King. It just doesn't do anything to these ears. Even Fight for the Rock has some cool songs I rather listen than that. Okay, White Witch is cool, I'll give you that. Edge of Thorns is quite good too, partially. Should maybe check their other later albums.
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Lord_Jotun
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 2250
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:00 am 
 

k311250 wrote:
Blasphemy. The fact that there's a lot of people buying the same 30 year old material in the form of various rehearsals and demos makes it even more pathetic. They've been milking the same songs for decades and only the 1989 Blood upon the Altar demo is good.


Although I greatly enjoy their output and recognize its importance, you have a point - the ongoing hype surrounding such a small handful of releases is nuts, especially if we consider that since then there's never exactly been any shortage of similar material (with a lot worthless bandwagon jumpers, as usual, but there's quality to be found as well).
The silver lining is that at least the main releases keep getting repressed due to demand, so unless you're looking for some specific ultra-limited die hardest radioactive vinyl with glow-in-the-dark patches or whatever, you no longer have to scour the usual sites hoping to score an official cd or lp that would cost you only one kidney out of two.
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Temple Of Blood
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:19 am 
 

LordStenhammar wrote:
Should maybe check their other later albums.


They're not too great. That's basically dumpster diving. You'll be lucky to find 2 good tracks per album.
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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 4461
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:21 am 
 

LordStenhammar wrote:
I listen to early Savatage stuff and Power of the Night rather than Hall of the Mountain King. It just doesn't do anything to these ears. Even Fight for the Rock has some cool songs I rather listen than that. Okay, White Witch is cool, I'll give you that. Edge of Thorns is quite good too, partially. Should maybe check their other later albums.


Even as a Savatage fan, I don't think you'd have a good time venturing into post-Edge of Thorns territory. Listen to The Dungeons Are Calling if you haven't already, especially the best release of their early era.

That said, I think you might like some Jon Oliva's Pain. Maniacal Renderings captures some of that old school spirit.
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LordStenhammar
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 1480
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:47 am 
 

Thanks for the tips. Dungeons Are Calling is of course familiar already. Didn't those songs got recorded in the same sessions as Sirens? Good stuff.
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at the gaytes
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Bangladesh
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:51 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Satan have not been praised enough for Court in the Act.


This

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 26241
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:52 am 
 

Pretty much everything after Edge of Thorns is a disappointment. Handful of Rain isn't bad, but they didn't even really try that hard to match the guitar virtuosity and soul of Edge of Thorns - after that it's all pretty shitty, really.
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Osmiumthemetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:09 am 
 

I will say myself that I feel that Ride The Lightning and Master of Puppets are not bad at all, but are notably bland records in the thrash metal continuum. It's similar to the feeling I get with Zeppelin where it feels less like I'm listening to a group but more to the fucking pompous brand name they became. The only Metallica record that I actually have a lot of fun listening to over and over again is Kill Em' All.

Also a bit off topic, but Metallica is a fucking horrible name and I've always thought that.

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Cobweb
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:20 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:26 pm 
 

for me its Dissections the Somberlain, i mean if you were broke or had a limited tape trading circle and heard the mastery that is Storm of the Lights Bane first aside from the reasonable first couple of tracks...i mean, no comparison

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Cobweb
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:20 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:29 pm 
 

Teitian Blood - seven chalices.... nope blood upon the alter was all that was needed

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Cobweb
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:20 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:35 pm 
 

death spell omega - didnt hear the recent but whatever that one that came out around 05-06 came out..it was like get to the point! I could not even give them another chance by the time they started getting some serious hype...i'll take impetous ritual

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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 1751
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:56 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Pretty much everything after Edge of Thorns is a disappointment. Handful of Rain isn't bad, but they didn't even really try that hard to match the guitar virtuosity and soul of Edge of Thorns - after that it's all pretty shitty, really.


I must be the only person who vastly prefers Handful of Rain to Edge of Thorns. Both are great, but HoR outclasses it's predecessor for me because it's such a soulful, emotional rollercoaster album...full of so much genuine grief and pain but without ever feeling heavy-handed or fake. The blues-infused title track, the epic "Chance", and most of all "Alone You Breathe"...one of the most realistic (and by extension, utterly heart-wrenching) expressions of loss and grief I've ever heard...a really great album, in my opinion.

Granted, of the post-HoR stuff, I've only heard "The Wake of Magellan" and it might have 3 or 4 tracks with any replay value...I'd even rank "Streets" pretty far above that one.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:00 am 
 

true_death wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Pretty much everything after Edge of Thorns is a disappointment. Handful of Rain isn't bad, but they didn't even really try that hard to match the guitar virtuosity and soul of Edge of Thorns - after that it's all pretty shitty, really.


I must be the only person who vastly prefers Handful of Rain to Edge of Thorns. Both are great, but HoR outclasses it's predecessor for me because it's such a soulful, emotional rollercoaster album...full of so much genuine grief and pain but without ever feeling heavy-handed or fake. The blues-infused title track, the epic "Chance", and most of all "Alone You Breathe"...one of the most realistic (and by extension, utterly heart-wrenching) expressions of loss and grief I've ever heard...a really great album, in my opinion.

Granted, of the post-HoR stuff, I've only heard "The Wake of Magellan" and it might have 3 or 4 tracks with any replay value...I'd even rank "Streets" pretty far above that one.


For me HoR has a lot of solid tunes and some really good melodies, but it just pales in comparison to how dynamic, epic, powerful, etc Edge of Thorns is. I definitely think HoR is good but it just feels like they really slowed down and didn't try that hard to top the previous one. But then again yeah I can see how it'd be a favorite for some people.
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Spiner202
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:46 am 
 

true_death wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Pretty much everything after Edge of Thorns is a disappointment. Handful of Rain isn't bad, but they didn't even really try that hard to match the guitar virtuosity and soul of Edge of Thorns - after that it's all pretty shitty, really.


I must be the only person who vastly prefers Handful of Rain to Edge of Thorns. Both are great, but HoR outclasses it's predecessor for me because it's such a soulful, emotional rollercoaster album...full of so much genuine grief and pain but without ever feeling heavy-handed or fake. The blues-infused title track, the epic "Chance", and most of all "Alone You Breathe"...one of the most realistic (and by extension, utterly heart-wrenching) expressions of loss and grief I've ever heard...a really great album, in my opinion.

Granted, of the post-HoR stuff, I've only heard "The Wake of Magellan" and it might have 3 or 4 tracks with any replay value...I'd even rank "Streets" pretty far above that one.


Handful of Rain is fantastic. I'm torn between that and Edge of Thorns, but there is a lot of classic stuff on HoR.

I'm really surprised to see the Zak Stevens era not getting much love. Dead Winter Dead is the only record from that era that isn't completely awesome, and even that has more than a few good tunes.
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LordStenhammar
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:06 am 
 

What about Gutter Ballet then? Sounds like a total winner judging by some YouTube videos. Okay, it was released prior to Edge of Thorns, so maybe that's why it was not talked about. That guitar work is just something else...
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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:22 am 
 

Gutter Ballet is another one of their strongest records. The title track in particular is probably the best Savatage song ever written.
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LordStenhammar
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:50 am 
 

Yeah, that title track totally got me. I got money = I'll buy that album asap.
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true_death
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:16 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I definitely think HoR is good but it just feels like they really slowed down and didn't try that hard to top the previous one. But then again yeah I can see how it'd be a favorite for some people.


Well, to be fair none of the people on EoT are on HoR, aside from Zak Stevens obviously. Obviously Criss was gone but I'm pretty sure Jon Olivia wrote and recorded the entire album himself (and he had little to nothing to do with EoT if I recall correctly). So it's not a natural follow-up, if you understand what I mean.

And Gutter Ballet is probably my favorite Savatage album, a nice midway point between the raw early material and the more refined later stuff. The Unholy is one of the greatest metal songs ever written!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:47 am 
 

LordStenhammar wrote:
What about Gutter Ballet then? Sounds like a total winner judging by some YouTube videos. Okay, it was released prior to Edge of Thorns, so maybe that's why it was not talked about. That guitar work is just something else...



It's one of the most frustratingly inconsistent records ever. I'd say definitely get it (it's probably the last worthwhile Savatage album) because the highlights are so damn good.
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LordStenhammar
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:40 pm 
 

Already ordered. The Unholy alone is worth it, one of the most memorable songs I've heard this year.
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:45 pm 
 

Anything with Criss Oliva is mandatory with the possible exception of Fight for the Rock, which still has some great guitar playing. One of the top 5 metal guitarists ever.

I think the only Stevens album that is mandatory is obviously Edge of Thorns, which might possibly have the best guitars Criss ever recorded. I could listen to that album even if only the guitars were on it, no other instrument or voice. They are just fucking amazing.

The Stevens albums are basically pre-Trans Siberian Orchestra albums. And when you don't have the METAL team of the Oliva bros you are NOT Savatage.

Streets is a beautiful, beautiful album, the one where they got the broadway thing right (because Olivas...) and even that has the metal gold of Agony and Ecstasy for example. I have no idea what people mean when they say anything other than "masterpiece" when referring to Gutter Ballet. Hounds alone is enough to get that album. Of course Hall of the Mountain King is a US Power Metal totem and rightfully so.

Chance, Alone You Breathe and Handful of Rain are the only songs I think are good from HOR. Dead Winter Dead is good as a pre-TSO album, Wake of Magellan is OK for what it is (which is not a real Savatage album) and Poets and Madmen is meh with a couple of good songs.
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