Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 3020
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:07 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
A lot of people refer to that as "flower metal" to differentiate it from US Power Metal (USPM), for example.

A lot of people should just shut the fuck up!
_________________
Do the words Heavy Metal mean anything to you other than buttcore, technical progressive assgrind or the like?
true_death wrote:
You could be listening to Edge of Sanity right now, but you're not!

Top
 Profile  
tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4766
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:29 am 
 

both flavours of uspm, the various forms of eupm all share a single fundamental thing. The guitar riffs and to some extend the guitar/drum interplay is what i considered like distilled heavy metal. Less punk, blues, hard rock and a focus on the most purely metallic elements of NWOBHM.

No power metal song will have the rocking nature of Strong arm of the law for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGnhF0_rA90

or the punky blues as in this venom song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5wUr4Lut4A


now ofcourse since the days of classic pm we have especially seen in europe the building on this riff template into something once again quite detached from say blind guardian or omen yet still in the guitar play we can still see the distilled nature of playing.

Top
 Profile  
Oblarg
Veteran

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 2641
Location: The second sea
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:36 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
Only basement dwelling nerds use that term unironically, tbh. I'd avoid it like the plague unless you want to look like some kind of dweeb with no friends.


It's a very useful term. Not all euro-power is flowery.
_________________
iamntbatman wrote:
manowar are literally five times the band that fates warning are: each member is as good as fates warning alone, then joey's bass solos are like an entire extra fates warning

Top
 Profile  
kytokinesis
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 144
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:14 pm 
 

It comes down to the rhythm section, pretty much. Power metal emphasizes simple (you could even say minimalistic) rhythms and strong lead/vocal melodies. Blues elements are usually kept out.

Top
 Profile  
Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 2250
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:02 pm 
 

There is no identifiable "thing" that makes power metal power metal; "power metal" is a mostly unconscious and subjective impression of the entire package of how a metal band sounds, and its very existence is predicated on the existence of other subgenres (thrash metal, speed metal, doom metal, heavy metal, etc., etc.) and thus it cannot be understood except in relation to those other subgenres. There are power metal bands that have few or none of the most readily identifiable signifiers of power metal but give off an unmistakable power metal vibe, there are bands that do other styles but have recorded power metal songs, and there are oddballs, outliers, and edge cases. We can draw general traits that most power metal bands exhibit under most circumstances: leading melodies, whether presented as simple leads or harmonized into riffs, minimal blues influences, a vocalist who can sing clean-ish and at least attempt to make it sound dramatic and awe-inspiring, rarely under 110 BPM or so, but there is no definable essence of power metal.
_________________
Ball Cupper wrote:
SoundsofDecay wrote:
So Kerry King is married to an attention whoring, "intersectional feminist" InstaSlut with a cat fixation. Go figure.

sorry she's not responded to your DMs, bro

Top
 Profile  
TheHellstorm
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:18 am
Posts: 116
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:06 am 
 

What makes a band Power metal? Fondness for cock of course

Top
 Profile  
BasqueStorm
Metal freak

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 4146
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:25 am 
 

Behemoth91 wrote:
I've heard people say...
Maybe im missing something?

Yes, you're. People talk too much. Usually to say stupid things.

TheHellstorm wrote:
What makes a band Power metal? Fondness for cock of course

What makes a band power metal? When they play, you know, power metal. :P

Top
 Profile  
Frenetic Zetetic
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:16 pm
Posts: 10
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:53 am 
 

Power metal essentially = Iron Maiden with trem riffs and double bass (what I'm gathering from this thread)?

Top
 Profile  
Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 2250
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:54 pm 
 

TheHellstorm wrote:
What makes a band Power metal? Fondness for cock of course


Have there been any power metal bands that actually pursued gay themes, unashamedly and without some chickenshit veil of irony (fuck you Nanowar)?
_________________
Ball Cupper wrote:
SoundsofDecay wrote:
So Kerry King is married to an attention whoring, "intersectional feminist" InstaSlut with a cat fixation. Go figure.

sorry she's not responded to your DMs, bro

Top
 Profile  
Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 6132
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:04 pm 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
TheHellstorm wrote:
What makes a band Power metal? Fondness for cock of course


Have there been any power metal bands that actually pursued gay themes, unashamedly and without some chickenshit veil of irony (fuck you Nanowar)?

Don't you know that comprehensible vocals are the epitome of homosexuality, dude? Gawd!
_________________
I write anime reviews. They're good for your health!
My Most Recent Review: Scrapped Princess!
Coming Up Next:
Made in Abyss
After That: Blood Blockade Battlefront & Beyond and Golden Boy

Top
 Profile  
rexxz
Where's your band?

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 11433
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:11 pm 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
There is no identifiable "thing" that makes power metal power metal; "power metal" is a mostly unconscious and subjective impression of the entire package of how a metal band sounds, and its very existence is predicated on the existence of other subgenres (thrash metal, speed metal, doom metal, heavy metal, etc., etc.) and thus it cannot be understood except in relation to those other subgenres. There are power metal bands that have few or none of the most readily identifiable signifiers of power metal but give off an unmistakable power metal vibe, there are bands that do other styles but have recorded power metal songs, and there are oddballs, outliers, and edge cases. We can draw general traits that most power metal bands exhibit under most circumstances: leading melodies, whether presented as simple leads or harmonized into riffs, minimal blues influences, a vocalist who can sing clean-ish and at least attempt to make it sound dramatic and awe-inspiring, rarely under 110 BPM or so, but there is no definable essence of power metal.



All of this goes for every genre of art no matter the medium, so it's a bit of a tautology. And I would argue against there being no definable essence of power metal, obviously there is or we wouldn't be calling bands power metal.
_________________
Hexenkraft - diabolical cyberpunk darksynth
Cosmic Atrophy - extradimensional death metal

Top
 Profile  
Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 1937
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:12 pm 
 

I think Rainbow pioneered the sound with certain songs like "Gates of Babylon".
_________________
TEMPLE OF BLOOD: Intense PowerThrash Metal
Facebook / ReverbNation / Old homepage

Top
 Profile  
Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 2250
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:20 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
Woolie_Wool wrote:
There is no identifiable "thing" that makes power metal power metal; "power metal" is a mostly unconscious and subjective impression of the entire package of how a metal band sounds, and its very existence is predicated on the existence of other subgenres (thrash metal, speed metal, doom metal, heavy metal, etc., etc.) and thus it cannot be understood except in relation to those other subgenres. There are power metal bands that have few or none of the most readily identifiable signifiers of power metal but give off an unmistakable power metal vibe, there are bands that do other styles but have recorded power metal songs, and there are oddballs, outliers, and edge cases. We can draw general traits that most power metal bands exhibit under most circumstances: leading melodies, whether presented as simple leads or harmonized into riffs, minimal blues influences, a vocalist who can sing clean-ish and at least attempt to make it sound dramatic and awe-inspiring, rarely under 110 BPM or so, but there is no definable essence of power metal.



All of this goes for every genre of art no matter the medium, so it's a bit of a tautology. And I would argue against there being no definable essence of power metal, obviously there is or we wouldn't be calling bands power metal.


How does that follow? There's no definable essence of anything expressible by language! Words are just symbols, and the symbols derive their meaning from their relationships to other symbols, and these symbols come about because they're convenient to the culture using them or inherited from an earlier culture. The category of "chairs" consists of objects we have decided to label with "chair", not objects that possess a sort of chair-ness. Plato was wrong.
_________________
Ball Cupper wrote:
SoundsofDecay wrote:
So Kerry King is married to an attention whoring, "intersectional feminist" InstaSlut with a cat fixation. Go figure.

sorry she's not responded to your DMs, bro

Top
 Profile  
Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 3020
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:59 pm 
 

So you can't describe a chair with words? Or were you being funny?
_________________
Do the words Heavy Metal mean anything to you other than buttcore, technical progressive assgrind or the like?
true_death wrote:
You could be listening to Edge of Sanity right now, but you're not!

Top
 Profile  
raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1006
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:13 pm 
 

I don't want to speak for him, but he seems to be denying universals. Just like a red flower and red car are both red, they do not instantiate a universal 'redness' that exists independent of their representation. We just label the wavelength that is emitting from both of them as red.

Top
 Profile  
Oblarg
Veteran

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 2641
Location: The second sea
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:31 pm 
 

https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/A_Human ... e_to_Words
_________________
iamntbatman wrote:
manowar are literally five times the band that fates warning are: each member is as good as fates warning alone, then joey's bass solos are like an entire extra fates warning

Top
 Profile  
Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 26516
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:33 pm 
 

Well I'm glad to see this thread reached its logical conclusion of determining that words really mean nothing.
_________________
Cinema Freaks latest reviews: Halloween - 1978 & 2018

Top
 Profile  
kytokinesis
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 144
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:45 pm 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
We can draw general traits that most power metal bands exhibit under most circumstances:

This is all we're really concerned about here.

Top
 Profile  
Chinese_Whispers
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:35 pm
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:01 pm 
 

When I hear the term ‘power metal’, I tend to immediately imagine European Power Metal. Personally I always found the US Power Metal scene of the 80s to be far too disparate to consider it a cohesive sound (much like First Wave Black Metal). Unlike the majority of sub-genres of this time, it wasn’t really localised, at least not as tightly as the Euros of the late-80s/early-90s being concentrated around Germany and Italy. USPM just wasn’t clearly defined. Even Metallica were calling themselves ‘power metal’ circa 1982. Plus a lot of USPM had progressive tendencies that would probably have them labelled ‘power prog’ in a modern context.

When someone mentions a band is power metal, I tend to envision instrumentation such as 16-note double bass or gallop beats at high tempos from the drums. There is less emphasis on guitar riffs as the focal point of the song, at least compared to other sub-genres, though I’m not suggesting there are not riffs, but the way a song is constructed is less focused on stringing riffs together. This is mainly due to the focus on vocal melodies, or melodies in genre. Even the guitars (or occasionally keys) contribute far more traditional melodic content than the more chromatic riffing of other sub-genres.

The focal point tends to be the vocals for mine. A greater reliance on major key melodies and harmonies tend to lend PM it’s unique sound among metal genres. A lot of people attribute the European musical tradition for this melodic focus (I imagine for contrast, the flattened thirds of the blues give North American and British metal, and the overall influence of the blues at least early in its development give those styles their flavour). Some people would describe these as more ‘epic’ or ‘operatic’ inflections.

And of course the lyrical content would also be a major talking point when considering power metal. Between lyrics and the major (some would describe them as ‘happier’) melodies, that tends to be a make or break point for many. Of course, I’m generalising quite a bit and not really doing justice on the whole, but I guess I’m just trying to articulate what the term power metal evokes to me.

Top
 Profile  
Oblarg
Veteran

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 2641
Location: The second sea
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:44 am 
 

Chinese_Whispers wrote:
USPM just wasn’t clearly defined. Even Metallica were calling themselves ‘power metal’ circa 1982.


What bands called themselves at the time has basically no bearing on what we call them now; no one classifies Metallica or Pantera as USPM, and this isn't arbitrary. We don't call them USPM because, well, they're not USPM.
_________________
iamntbatman wrote:
manowar are literally five times the band that fates warning are: each member is as good as fates warning alone, then joey's bass solos are like an entire extra fates warning

Top
 Profile  
BeholdtheNicktopus
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:26 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:35 am 
 

"Power metal" is a conventional label or grouping that picks out certain real aspects, but based on family resemblance (meaning there is no single necessary and sufficient condition for a band to be power metal, or even a group of several necessary and sufficient conditions). Having some family resemblance concepts by no means entails some kind of radical nominalism, denying universals, or anything else of the sort. "Power metal" has a lot of associations, sometimes a band ticks more or less of the boxes, but if they tick enough, we can agree to call it "power metal". There need not be "no essence expressible in language" or something, surely we can indicate characteristics. Maybe I am misunderstanding what is being meant by "essence" though - one single set of sufficient and necessary conditions? One sufficient and necessary condition? Something else entirely? Is anyone arguing that power metal is a natural kind?

Also, Plato never ever used the word essence. And if he had, sensibles would not have essences for Plato. Take it up with Avicenna. (Btw the word "essentia" is a Latin translation of Aristotle's phrases for "what it is" and "the what it is to be (the thing that it is)", more or less)

And anyway, forms are absolutely not "expressible" in language for Plato either. An "account" or something (i.e. maybe a definition) may be a sign or result of knowledge (of a form), but it doesn't capture or express it or anything like that since it is propositional and knowledge is not (for the ancients); sensibles cannot ever be known (e.g. someone could never know whether this or that song is power metal). Starts sounding oddly like the "subjective impression" of the meaning of power metal, if one is unsympathetic to Platonic forms. Can this impression not be clarified through language?

Though this may be viewed as far afield, metal just cares so much about genre and subgenre (contra a lot of other styles) that these conversations are bound to arise. Metal seems to have an in-built tendency to think in essences, forms, or whatever, and even of simulacra (fake copies, when a band is untrue). Very cool!
_________________
RIP Mark "The Shark" Shelton
"Existence is a trace of The One." ~Plotinus

Top
 Profile  
Behemoth91
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 8
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:08 pm 
 

The term was used broadly to describe everything from the wall of sound of Exciter to the doomy black cries of Mercyful Fate, ultimately defining a sound with twice the crunch of classic heavy metal. Two times the speed, two times the spikes, power metal had double everything. Accept, Jag Panzer and Warlock took dual guitar leads, histrionic vocals, and pounding drums to a powerful place without radically rearranging the rules of Judas Priest and Iron Maiden.

This is taken from the book The Sound of The Beast by Ian Christe.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BastardHead, Endarkening, Google [Bot], thesilentenigma, thewrll and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

  Print view
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group