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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:09 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
And that reminds me: Robb Reiner of Anvil. What a fool he was for not taking better gigs (rumors are Judas Priest and Ozzy). Other than "666" and maybe "Metal on Metal" I don't think Lips has ever written a good song. Waste of a brilliant drummer. He was Dave Lombardo before there was Dave Lombardo.


If Lemmy asking Lips to join Motorhead after Eddie left is anything to go by, then Lips has some pretty serious chops as well. Lips and Robb are both insanely talented musicians and the former would be much more highly regarded if he'd let somebody else do the singing back in the day.

Same could probably be said for Jeff Waters. As much as he'd hate it, I think he would've been amazing as the lead guitarist for a different band.
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traxan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:57 pm 
 

And who cares about that, vs. lead playing, singing, or even drumming?

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Xenophon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:54 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
What makes a musician good or bad? Hard to answer the question when we don't even know the operational definitions.

Take this response for example:

Lord_Jotun wrote:
Can't believe I'm the first to mention Bathory when it comes to "bad musicians doing good music". When you manage to seriously impact the rulebook for not one but two subgenres with rudimentary skills at best, you know you're a true genius in your field.


Having a rudimentary skill set is enough to be considered "bad"? Why not say he has a terrible skill set, instead of the qualitatively neutral term "rudimentary" (which has neither negative or positive connotations).

What about the music that these musicians create? Does the quality of their creative output not factor in when considering the quality of their musicianship? If so, doesn't that automatically make them a "good" musician if they make "good" music?

Interesting stuff to think about, for sure.

*for what it's worth, I can't even think of a single example of a band with "bad" musicians that make good music. I suspect most people here are calling anyone who isn't an absolute virtuoso in a technical, mechanical sense to be "bad", which I think is a huge mistake obviously*


Yeah it depends. If you mean bad as in just not having technical skill, there are still some genres or musical styles where you just need to strum chords or play simple melodies, so you wouldn't know necessarily whether that was the limit of that person's technical skill.

Even in terms of songwriting, it can occasionally be hard to tell. One of the surefire ways for a band to shoot themselves in the foot, to me, is when it sounds like there is something fundamentally wrong with the band's idea of scales or harmony (like one symphonic album I can't seem to find where it literally sounded like the band members were all playing different songs). But even then, there are bands like Ghoulgotha and Aborted Fetus (some of the riffs just mangle the time signatures around them) that (seem to) break the rules intentionally to achieve a certain effect.

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joppek
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:32 pm 
 

possessed - i'm not familiar with their later output, so not commenting on that, but while seven churches is a classic for a good reason, i don't think i've ever heard another album with drumming that bad. my bowl movements are a more accurate time keeper; and i'm only 32

good musicians doing bad music seems like an enormous category, that i'm not gonna dive in to right now, tho' i have to raise my proverbial hat to the limp bizkit mention
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Discordant
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:27 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:44 pm 
 

Lord_Jotun wrote:
Can't believe I'm the first to mention Bathory when it comes to "bad musicians doing good music". When you manage to seriously impact the rulebook for not one but two subgenres with rudimentary skills at best, you know you're a true genius in your field.


Agreed, Bathory was my favorite band. But Quorthon always had a limited skillset but still managed to make great inspirational music.

On the other hand, his fellow countrymen Yngwie Malmsteen has mad skills on the guitar but never made any particularly good music IMO.
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raumr
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:37 pm 
 

I'm not sure I agree with Quorthon being a bad musician. He was a very skilled guitar player, both electric and acoustic (just listen to any song on Twilight of the Gods). And I think Quorthon had more talent than anyone in Venom ever had, even early on, despite the fact that he ripped off a couple riffs (or more? :P) from them.

I think Burzum is a way better example. The early albums, especially the debut, is very sloppy, and Varg said that he only practiced with real drums a month or so before recording. Yet, it's atmospheric as hell and the songwriting and timing is on point, making it a classic.

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Sunioj_Paul
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:46 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:05 am 
 

traxan wrote:
As for the rest of Metallica, it is amazing that they achieved their status without one exceptional player.

In Slayer it was Lombardo, proof that a drummer makes the band because he carried three mediocre players to greatness.


Oh come on! Hetfield is regarded at one of the best rhythm guitarists in the genre. Not only technically brilliant but has written some of the most classic riffs and songs in metal.


Postmortem, Raining Blood, Angel of Death, Hell Awaits, At Dawn They Sleep, Die By The Sword, War Ensemble, Seasons In The Abyss, South of Heaven, I could go on and on. Which of these classics did Dave Lombardo write? Some of the greatest metal songs of all time! I think Jeff Hanneman wrote nearly all of them, hardly mediocre!


As for Kerry King, he recorded all rythm guitars from Seasons onwards because he was so good at getting tracks down in a couple of takes in the studio. Again, hardly mediocre playing considering the style. Also, Slayer are tight as fuck live. Saying the members of Metallica and Slayer are mediorce players is ridiculous.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:25 pm 
 

Yeah, the guys in Slayer were not shit musicians. Yes Lombardo brought a vibe and energy that the band sorely misses but it was JH's songwriting that really made them legends, and yes Kerry wrote a few good ones as well back in the day as well. Live they are tight as fuck to quote the prior poster.

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joppek
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:01 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Yeah, the guys in Slayer were not shit musicians.


well, to be fair, tom is a pretty dreadful singer - but surely the other guys can handle their instruments ranging from more than well enough to masterfully
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lordcatfish
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:52 pm 
 

Re: Lars Ulrich (Metallica) - definitely an average drummer, although I don't think his playing has ever been detrimental, at least up until the last two albums, and he tends to compliment the music well. His strength has always been the arrangement side of things. Very lazy live as noted. He doesn't even have a ride cymbal anymore, and just smashes the china (I think) instead.

Re: Limp Bizkit - their wasted talent usually comes up in discussions about them. I think they've got more good songs than they're generally given credit for (if they're ever given credit at all). Might be a nostalgia thing, as I grew up when they were massive. There were a few others in the nu/alt metal scene that were also somewhat restricted by their genre of choice too (eg the rhythm section in Mudvayne, John 5 in Marilyn Manson / Rob Zombie, Mike Mushok in Staind). At the same time, you also had someone like like Travis Barker in the concurrent pop punk scene, who was playing below his technical means with blink-182 when he was (allegedly) approached to join Slayer.

Re: Opeth. I sort of agree with this. I like some of their pre Watershed stuff, but I've always said that they'd be a far better band if they wrote more conventional songs. Some of the riffs and ideas in their material are amazing, but the arrangements and song structures really let them down.

I think Zakk Wylde has been (largely) wasting his talent for many years now. Stuff like Book of Shadows and Hangover Music is really good, and what he should really focus on. Instead he writes forgettable heavy/groove metal, with solos that are boring and predictable. Even in Ozzy, most of his leads were bland and not up to the standard of Randy or Jake. The Blessed Hellride is a belter mind, and the newest one is decent too, but other than that, there's not much to write home about other than the obligatory ballads (which are normally excellent).
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:28 pm 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Re: Opeth. I sort of agree with this. I like some of their pre Watershed stuff, but I've always said that they'd be a far better band if they wrote more conventional songs. Some of the riffs and ideas in their material are amazing, but the arrangements and song structures really let them down.


Yeah, this exactly. I'm even a fan of longer-form songwriting, but Opeth has never done it for me and I've tried several times over the years to get into them. They always just come off as so dragging and bloated. It just doesn't resonate with me despite the fact that a few minutes at a time, they can sound somewhat intriguing.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:57 pm 
 

Opeth doesn't write songs so much as...stuff. There's a thing with Opeth regardless of era where their songs have amazing individual parts that end up feeling uncanny due to their jarring arrangements. There are legitimately well-structured songs here and there like Harvest, The Grand Conjuration, and a majority of Damnation, but they end up feeling more like accidents or subtle Steven Wilson prodding than true craft at work. I'd love to sit on in Akerfeldt's writing process if only to see if it's as scatterbrained as I think it is.

Zakk Wylde seems to have the inverse problem where his songwriting is very structured but cripplingly so. The guy has a very obvious method and Black Label's albums are very workmanlike, but there's a sense that he just pulls stuff out of his ass and doesn't particularly care about individual tracks. Sadly it seems to be affecting all aspects of his work if Book of Shadows 2 was anything to go by.
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Gornot
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:59 pm 
 

The "good musicians doing bad music" part is, I believe, even more open for interpretation than the other way around, as you can literally put any good band with a bad album into that list (and those are plentiful); the concept is not really creative. Now, bad musicians doing good music, that's way more interesting, as it presents a certain shake-up of subjective and objective standpoints. Maybe it's a moral battle between a bad musician (rapist, scammer etc.) doing some legitimately good shit, or whatever.

The biggest "bad musician good music" bunch that comes to mind is indeed Metallica. I've always loved that band despite firmly believing none of them are outstanding musicians individually, and their music doesn't really have anything THAT interesting which I can relate to. HOWEVER, they still undeniably made some amazing albums, some controversial songs and some outright niche tunes that despite the "general consensus" I still enjoy.


Now, someone mentioned Opeth with Watershed and beyond. I really, really feel like I need to stand in defence of Watershed, as it was the first album I've ever heard from Opeth, and I love it from start to finish (even the special edition), even more than literally any other album they've ever made. Now, whether that's just bad taste or "love at first listen" bias, I don't know, but it actually kinda pains me to see/hear/listen to people shit on this album... I mean, Opeth are a very original band overall, at least from what I've had the chance to listen to in the metal scene for the past 15 years, and the dynamic soundscape and shifting sensations of Watershed are fucking sublime in my eyes...

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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:35 am 
 

[insert countless punk/hardcore bands]

Gornot wrote:
...whether that's just bad taste or "love at first listen" bias, I don't know, but it actually kinda pains me to see/hear/listen to people shit on this album...

Definitely bias (to a degree).

Opeth got me into growls when I was getting into heavier music, so they mean a lot to me just for that. I was only 14/15 and I delved deep into their material (Ghost Reveries was soon to be released at the time) and they quickly became one of my favorite gateway bands. When Watershed came out I was in AIT for the army but I was definitely still big on music, more so since for a few months I had a total lack of music aside thanks to boot camp. I was in AIT for 4 months and I had that album on rotation, and I can say for sure it was a disappointment. I remember being very bored by it. I gave it a second chance in university and it still felt like it didn't have anything interesting to offer. So put me up for being an Orchid through Ghost Reveries fan.

Adding to the thread I need to ask why did Michael Angelo Batio ever think Nitro was a good idea? A man with those capabilities as a guitarist putting out total garbage. It needs to be said that most shred guys leave a lot to be desired with their solo output, too.

Arch Enemy has been mentioned and needs to be brought up again cause it's that lame.

Sepultura in the beginning were lackluster musicians creating classic thrash metal. One of their members couldn't even play bass properly for years. Decades of shit later we're finally at a point where they're both passable at writing while also being capable performers.

Also, Running Wild. Rapid Foray was a glimmer of hope. Should be enough said, but really, what the fuck has Rolf been doing for the past (nearly) 20 years. From downward slope to garbage to computer-room-made garbage. A guy this talented putting out talentless music.
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Lord_Jotun
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:35 am 
 

Just to clarify: I don't believe skills alone can make you a "good" or "bad" musician. I mentioned Bathory because I find it amazing than a barely capable (when he started out) musician like Quorthon was able to achieve as much as he did; by the music industry's standards, he should have never even been allowed in a recording studio (remember when Venom sent their demo to EMI?). I would never dream of judging him a "bad" musician per sé on said grounds alone, and I think this kind of simplification was set in the thread's title for brevity and clarity's sake.
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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 pm 
 

I was never impressed with Zakk Wylde as a songwriter. He is a very technically gifted musician- the guy can clearly play- but his stuff with Ozzy, I just never thought was very interesting. Pinch-squeelies all over the place, boring riffs. Not that it's "bad" per se but- not very interesting. The two previous guitarists who recorded with Ozzy, I thought had a much better flair both for songwriting and for composing memorable and interesting guitar solos.

And yeah- Michal Angelo Batio can shred with the best of them but I've heard plenty of shred guitarists who can write really great songs. Batio sadly isn't quite there, he is best known for his guitar work in Nitro, which isn't something to be proud of.

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wednesdaysixx
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:54 am 
 

So to echo some sentiments. Limp Bizkit have more talent than their collective output would indicate. Metallica are a whole issue unto themselves. The Ramones seem more talented than their records would indicate, the same can be said about lots of punk stuff. Zakk Wylde shreds like a mofo but I've never been too impressed by an BLS stuff.
Early Napalm Death, for instance, was sloppy as anything and all over the place but sounds so good. Darkthrone, Fenriz has said he only practices when he writes or records, timing can meander, but it sounds so good. Early Sepultura, the guitars aren't even in tune on the albums.

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Space_alligator
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:24 am 
 

I came here for a good read, but i have to agree with the Limp Bizkit suggestion. Otto and Borland are 2 incredible musicians in their own right...

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Space_alligator
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:32 am 
 

I believe some bands, for example Metallica, fit into a grey area between the two categories...

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:23 am 
 

Lesser-known Euro-power metal band Magica fall into the bad musicians/good music camp, especially early in their careers. They're so bad at playing their instruments that it's a miracle a song anywhere near as good as "The Living Grimoire" spawned from them.
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Thiestru
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:17 pm 
 

@thrashinbatman: The solo in 'The Unforgiven' was actually played by James.

Speaking of James, I agree with others that he is a very good rhythm guitarist. Kirk is just kind of... there. I might even say that he's a weaker link than Lars, who, as mentioned, was pretty good at one time.
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lordcatfish
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:31 pm 
 

Thiestru wrote:
@thrashinbatman: The solo in 'The Unforgiven' was actually played by James.

Speaking of James, I agree with others that he is a very good rhythm guitarist. Kirk is just kind of... there. I might even say that he's a weaker link than Lars, who, as mentioned, was pretty good at one time.

It's definitely Kirk on "The Unforgiven". There's footage of him improvising what eventually became the template of the solo. Maybe you're getting it mixed up with "Nothing Else Matters"?
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jimbies
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:26 am 
 

I'm going to go off the track right now and suggest Mudvayne.
I know they aren't on the archives (and for good reason) and I don't know a whole lot of their music. I own the L.D 50 album because I loved the song Dig in High school. That track in particular sounds pretty fucking crazy to me. The drum patterns are insane. I haven't listened to the rest of the album in close to 20 years, but I remember hearing it back then and not much of it sticking besides Dig.

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schizoid
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:47 am 
 

jimbies wrote:
I'm going to go off the track right now and suggest Mudvayne.
I know they aren't on the archives (and for good reason) and I don't know a whole lot of their music. I own the L.D 50 album because I loved the song Dig in High school. That track in particular sounds pretty fucking crazy to me. The drum patterns are insane. I haven't listened to the rest of the album in close to 20 years, but I remember hearing it back then and not much of it sticking besides Dig.


I remember reading Terrorizer mag back in the day and they gave it from memory an unprecedented 0/10 or something like that. In my limited listening, to be fair, it does sound like there was a bit more going on than most bands at the time, like a shitty nu-metal Primus or something.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:44 pm 
 

Opeth is the best example that I've seen in this thread. They're wankier with far poorer note/rhythm choices than the wankiest Shrapnel guitar shredder. Also, apparently they are allergic to actually "rocking".
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schizoid
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:28 am 
 

They've already been mentioned to some degree, but ANNIHILATOR. There is no doubt a ton of talent to the players, but every time I hear some unrecognized cheesy and just kind of annoying lite thrash pop up on my shuffle playlist, I can pretty much guarantee it's Annihilator.

Similar, but not quite the same, is Tourniquet. The difference with them is that they usually have excellent songs with something really goofy thrown in to deny it being listenable in its totality.
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Thiestru
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:16 pm 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Thiestru wrote:
@thrashinbatman: The solo in 'The Unforgiven' was actually played by James.

Speaking of James, I agree with others that he is a very good rhythm guitarist. Kirk is just kind of... there. I might even say that he's a weaker link than Lars, who, as mentioned, was pretty good at one time.

It's definitely Kirk on "The Unforgiven". There's footage of him improvising what eventually became the template of the solo. Maybe you're getting it mixed up with "Nothing Else Matters"?


You're right, had 'em mixed up! Both good solos though.
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traxan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:49 pm 
 

For the record I never said or meant to imply the non-Lombardo members of Slayer suck. Just that they are not exceptional. And they did have the good sense to stay within their limits. Kerry knows he's not Skolnick and doesn't try to be.

Speaking of which, I find it ironic Testament has one of the most talented guitarists in thrash and yet their best album was written without him. Chuck has said The Gathering was the work of Eric and Dave.

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:04 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
Speaking of which, I find it ironic Testament has one of the most talented guitarists in thrash and yet their best album was written without him.


It wasn't. "The Legacy" had many, many contributions from Skolnick, not to mention Souza with lyrics and vocal lines.

I agree that "The Gathering" is a very good album though. Frankly, Peterson is underrated as a lead guitarist.
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traxan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:47 pm 
 

Skolnick deserves a lot of credit for standing up for Peterson. In his book he defends Eric quite forcefully and talks about the unfairness of a photoshoot the two went to back in the 80s and the photographer only shot him and left Eric sitting on the sidelines. Eric must have felt two feet tall after that and Skol didn't like it at all.

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:59 pm 
 

schizoid wrote:
They've already been mentioned to some degree, but ANNIHILATOR. There is no doubt a ton of talent to the players, but every time I hear some unrecognized cheesy and just kind of annoying lite thrash pop up on my shuffle playlist, I can pretty much guarantee it's Annihilator.

Similar, but not quite the same, is Tourniquet. The difference with them is that they usually have excellent songs with something really goofy thrown in to deny it being listenable in its totality.


I always felt a bit let down by Annihilator. They were one of those bands that were ultra-hyped when they first started out, you'd read things in the metal mags about how "this guy Jeff Waters writes the most amazing riffs" and so on- even before the first album was even finished! People hyped them as the next Megadeth, Metallica, etc or whatever, basically the next great speed/thrash band. But when I finally heard them it was like, Meh. They weren't bad, but just okay. Certainly not living up to the hype! "Cheesy and just kind of annoying lite thrash" is exactly how I felt when I first listened to them. It was just too overproduced, watered down, and generic, yet undeniably well-performed. But like a lot of bands, just too sterile, clinical.

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lordcatfish
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:24 am 
 

Vogg is currently wasting his talents in Decapitated. He showed how good he can be on their earlier albums (Winds of Creation in particular), but since their reformation as a groove/death hybrid they've been painfully average at best.
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Evoken
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:11 am 
 

Jon Nödtveidt had that awful side project De Infernali. What a stinker that album was.

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traxan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:14 pm 
 

So I'll touch the third rail: Motorhead. I was never sure if Lemmy was a decent bassist who just kept it simple or limited. Mikki was definitely playing below his level. Most of their best songs were written by Eddie who was hardly Richie Blackmore. So do they fit in the bad musicians making good music category?

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Lord_Jotun
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:19 pm 
 

Huh? Lemmy had a pretty damn unique style with lots of groove and a nice ear for melody; flashy or ultra-technical it was most certainly not, but definitely not something you can pull off casually, especially while handling lead vocals at the same time. And Mikkey's choice of the perfect drumming style for Motorhead's music is a textbook example of how a good musician should work in a band: play what the music requires, no matter if it won't allow you to pull off every trick in your repertoire. Speaking of drummers, I worship Hellhammer's skills, but fuck if I don't roll my eyes whenever I hear him play intricate fills or weird backbeats on stuff like Chainsaw Gutsfuck - dude, you have the whole post-reformation catalogue to show your chops; stick to the basics for the basic tunes.

Also, Fast Eddie wasn't Riche Blackmore, but he was no slouch either; both his riffing and soloing were rock solid.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:59 pm 
 

traxan wrote:
So I'll touch the third rail: Motorhead. I was never sure if Lemmy was a decent bassist who just kept it simple or limited. Mikki was definitely playing below his level. Most of their best songs were written by Eddie who was hardly Richie Blackmore. So do they fit in the bad musicians making good music category?


This is just silly... did you want them to play virtuoso prog? They were all absolutely great and played the songs as they needed to be played. Not trying to shit on you but I guess I don't get what some posts like this were looking for.
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raumr
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Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:21 pm 
 

That is similar what I meant with my response to those who said that Quorthon was a bad musician. Yes, early Bathory is primitive as hell, but that was sort of the point. I see no evidence that Quorthon was technically weak, in fact I see a lot of evidence to the contrary.

Listen to the end of Necromansy when they launch into an Iron Maiden like galloping rhythm with a blaring guitar solo, it's very tight. And listen to the leads and solos on Under the Sign... and Blood Fire Death, as well as the acoustic playing on Twilight of the Gods.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:24 pm 
 

While I know it's just the point of the thread, this idea that musicians have to be ultra-tech wizards at their instruments and display that in every song is really kind of a misguided view in my opinion.
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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:18 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
As for the opposite question, of good musicians doing bad music... well one part of me wants to say Arch Enemy, because with the additions of Alissa White-Gluz neutering her impressive vocal range to simply monotone growls and Jeff Loomis reining in his immense talent to just be Mike Amott's human harmonizer pedal (and Amott himself is an incredible guitar player who just writes the same three riffs over and over and over again), they're really wasting a lot of talent.


This is still baffling to me. Now, regardless of her range and how well she can perform, I can understand Alissa being in a mediocre band. She's not the one writing the music and she's not the lead of this band in no way imagineable. She's just there to replace Angela Gossow, whom is, I assume, still managing this band. Anyone who's seen Arch Enemy live with Angela can tell that Alissa never really could do quite as much as her predecessor.

No, what baffles me here is Mike Amott... The man released Necroticism - Descanting the Insalubrious, and Heartwork. He released two classic cornerstone records in two different genres, setting up high standards for both grindcore and melodic death metal. And for the past 15 years or so, he's been doing absolutely nothing that stands out. Arch Enemy these days are a parody of themselves and everything that's wrong with melodic death and symphonic metal, using bad and cliché orchestrations, using vague "revolution" and "resistance" themes in a highly abstract manner to appeal to as many people as possible but without actually engaging in any kind of actual criticism of anything (except for the ecologist stuff that Alissa seems to care a lot about, which is one good thing they are doing at least).

And Jeff Loomis... Seriously, Arch Enemy and their fanbase annoys me a lot these days. I think that the fact that their fanbase is so content with copypasta music being thrown at them forever annoys me, but never quite as much as the fact that most of the musicians in the band are extremely capable musicians, and some of them are actually amazing song-writers. But these days, guys like Amott are so unidimensionnal in their song-writing, it makes you wonder if they just lost it or if they just found a recipe for commercial success and are sticking to it. Either way, it's a pretty sad sight.

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DecemberSoul
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
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Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:55 pm 
 

raumr wrote:
That is similar what I meant with my response to those who said that Quorthon was a bad musician. Yes, early Bathory is primitive as hell, but that was sort of the point. I see no evidence that Quorthon was technically weak, in fact I see a lot of evidence to the contrary.

Listen to the end of Necromansy when they launch into an Iron Maiden like galloping rhythm with a blaring guitar solo, it's very tight. And listen to the leads and solos on Under the Sign... and Blood Fire Death, as well as the acoustic playing on Twilight of the Gods.


And let's not forget the willpower Quorthon must have had to keep recording under the dismal conditions of the Heavenshore garage - and the greatness that was achieved along the way with a number of extremely impressive albums.
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