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DividerOfShadows
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:58 pm
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Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:48 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
It's weird that X-Factor gets so much retroactive love now - I always found it a weak album. They improved on that style with basically every other release following it, except Virtual XI which was also a misstep.


I just enjoy that album for what it is, a point in Iron Maiden's history. Same goes for Virtual XI (and No Prayer, Fear of the Dark etc). If I had been alive when they were released, I'd have probably, maybe considered them not that good and would have wanted another Seventh Son, but I've discovered those albums long after they had been released, so I wasn't plagued by expectations. They're both really interesting, the first is dark, and the second is nostalgic. Music is good to my ears and that's all that ultimately matters.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:56 pm 
 

"Disconnected" was a tremendous drop in quality after APSOG. The former was pretty unlistenable to me (better only than FWX) and the latter was a career-defining album for the band.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:16 pm 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
It's weird that X-Factor gets so much retroactive love now - I always found it a weak album. They improved on that style with basically every other release following it, except Virtual XI which was also a misstep.


I don't see any strong similarity between The X Factor and anything IM released after that, maybe AMoLaD a bit, but that's it. Now, Virtual XI gets a lot of hate and I get it, but man that album sounds nice mixing and production wise, I wish AMoLad, TFF and BoS sounded as clear and crisp as Virtual XI does.


Yeah they got back more of the classic style stuff later, but I just mean the general long-windedness comes off better to me on the later ones, more seamless and with better melodies to carry the songs. X Factor just feels dragging even for my taste.

Quote:
I just enjoy that album for what it is, a point in Iron Maiden's history. Same goes for Virtual XI (and No Prayer, Fear of the Dark etc). If I had been alive when they were released, I'd have probably, maybe considered them not that good and would have wanted another Seventh Son, but I've discovered those albums long after they had been released, so I wasn't plagued by expectations. They're both really interesting, the first is dark, and the second is nostalgic. Music is good to my ears and that's all that ultimately matters.


I wasn't into metal when those albums were released myself since I was a child. I just think the melodies are weak and the songs much less than I expect from Maiden, is all.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:53 pm 
 

Early 2000s Stratovarius was always a bit spotty, but the difference between Elements Pt. II that 2005 self-titled? Woof!

(Immediately followed up by one of the biggest rises in quality when Polaris came out.)
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~Guest 361478
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:55 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:31 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
A tougher challenge would be to find bands that released their best album and than their worst successively.


The Crue ? Dr Feelgood -> Motley Crue ?

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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:24 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
"Disconnected" was a tremendous drop in quality after APSOG. The former was pretty unlistenable to me (better only than FWX) and the latter was a career-defining album for the band.

I like all three of those albums, actually. "Still Remains," "Simple Human," and "Wish" are among my favorite post-80s Fates Warning songs. And then, of course, "A Pleasant Shade of Gray" is just a phenomenal mood piece.
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Xymosys
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:06 am 
 

Gojira's Magma is here to mention as well. It's not all that bad, but it is a snooze fest. I did expect much much more.
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MikeyC
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:06 am 
 

Xymosys wrote:
Gojira's Magma is here to mention as well. It's not all that bad, but it is a snooze fest. I did expect much much more.

Oh I forgot about this one. Totally agree. By far their worst album.
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~Guest 389043
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:25 am 
 

Reckon there is a fair drop off between Slayer's SITA and DI. Even drops further after DI with the terrible DIM. I also think Carcass shit the bed on Heartwork, biggest letdown in metal for me. Still feel the pain of dropping $30 on that turd circa quarter of a century on.

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InnesI
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:45 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
It's weird that X-Factor gets so much retroactive love now - I always found it a weak album. They improved on that style with basically every other release following it, except Virtual XI which was also a misstep.


I like it a lot. But that might be because I'm not a huge Iron Maiden fan and this release probably sounds the least like Iron Maiden. Not saying the band is bad by any stretch, its just usually not my cup of tea, especially for a full album. I like Blaze's darker voice even though his performance isn't the best (the struggling of singing in key on the Sign of the Cross chorus for example).
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~Guest 389043
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:51 am 
 

Another one - Pungent Stench with 'Club Mondo'. Terrible album to follow the great 'Been Caught Buttering'.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:25 am 
 

InnesI wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
It's weird that X-Factor gets so much retroactive love now - I always found it a weak album. They improved on that style with basically every other release following it, except Virtual XI which was also a misstep.


I like it a lot. But that might be because I'm not a huge Iron Maiden fan and this release probably sounds the least like Iron Maiden. Not saying the band is bad by any stretch, its just usually not my cup of tea, especially for a full album. I like Blaze's darker voice even though his performance isn't the best (the struggling of singing in key on the Sign of the Cross chorus for example).


I like some of Blaze's solo stuff a lot better than his time in Maiden. He's got a unique voice that works when he uses it right.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:43 am 
 

Everflowingstream wrote:
Reckon there is a fair drop off between Slayer's SITA and DI. Even drops further after DI with the terrible DIM. I also think Carcass shit the bed on Heartwork, biggest letdown in metal for me. Still feel the pain of dropping $30 on that turd circa quarter of a century on.

To Seasons in the Abyss was already a huge drop in quality. Then they keep dropping with each album.

Necroticism was also already a huge drop in quality. Boring death metal played (and written) by robots. They also kept going lower with each album after that.

Everflowingstream wrote:
Another one - Pungent Stench with 'Club Mondo'. Terrible album to follow the great 'Been Caught Buttering'.

Oh yeah that's a massive one. I'm glad I recently finally discovered Phantasm, they sound a lot like a proper third Pungent Stench album could have been, especially the title track off The Abominable.
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~Guest 171512
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:58 am 
 

Can't believe I forgot this obvious one: Kamelot, with 'Poetry for the Poisoned' dropping the ball 'Ghost Opera' and all the albums before it carried. To be fair, I've come to like it more over time, but the sharp decline in quality is obvious, and it really makes me sympathize with poor Khan; he sounds so tired and indifferent. I'm glad to hear how much he's recovered on the new Conception EP.

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lordcatfish
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:55 pm 
 

I find The X Factor to be a slog to get through. The first three tracks are excellent but then it mostly drags until "The Unbeliever". I think Virtual XI is easily the stronger of the two Blaze albums.

Dark Tranquillity - Projector to Haven is a big one for me. Projector is adventurous and has a lot of memorable songs, whereas Haven is a major step back, full of really insipid and bland material.
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CloggedUrethra
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:28 pm 
 

Quote:
Reckon there is a fair drop off between Slayer's SITA and DI.

DI is my favourite Slayer album and imo way better than SITA. For me, I'd put the biggest drop off as "South of Heaven" after "Reign in Blood". They were on another planet for "Reign in Blood" compared to the other thrash bands and "death metal" bands at the time, and then they follow it up with a sellout Metallica-wannabe rockstar garbage album for "South of Heaven". WTF
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CannibalCorpse
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
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Location: Austria
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:39 pm 
 

On the topic of Metallica -> the drop from "Death Magnetic" (mediocre) to "Lulu" (the depths of comical hell) is huge, just because the former is rather listenable and the latter is.....well, NOT. At least not without drug use.

I'm also part of the Sepultura crew, talking about "Arise". My favourite Sep. album followed by a total hit-and-miss album in "Chaos A.D.". Another dive between the bad "Roots" and the abysmal "Nation".

Ronnie James Dio - "Strange Highways" to "Angry Machines". That one is also quite a dip in quality, the former being heavy as hell and well modernized in sound, the latter taking it too far and sacrificing decent songwriting.

Black Sabbath - "Cross Purposes" to "Forbidden". A singer whose voice has been shot to hell after the former album, a rapper doing one of his worst features ever on the record - what else do you need?
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:41 pm 
 

Quote:
Ronnie James Dio - "Strange Highways" to "Angry Machines"


Good call. I think this is the dip from the strongest album to the weakest album that someone else asked for.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here though.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:03 pm 
 

South of Heaven is rock star sellout garbage? Gimme a fucking break. Dumbest shit I've read in a while.

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idunnosomename
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:13 pm 
 

CannibalCorpse wrote:
Black Sabbath - "Cross Purposes" to "Forbidden". A singer whose voice has been shot to hell after the former album, a rapper doing one of his worst features ever on the record - what else do you need?

For Sabbath I'd say Sabbath Bloody Sabbath to Technical Ecstacy. I never really find Forbidden that bad, in fact I love a great deal of it (Shaking off the Chains riff when it blows up, Kiss of Death). Ice T basically does a spoken word bit because he was about. It's pretty minor.

(Rest of your picks no quibbles. Except let's not even consider Lulu a musical album, by anyone, makes life easier)

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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm 
 

"Forbidden" is underrated. It has a few good songs on it, and the "rap" on the album is extremely overstated.
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zingote
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:57 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:20 pm 
 

Dream Theater went from Awake to Falling Into Infinity . I don’t think the latter is bad at all, but there is a severe dip in quality.

Virgin Steele went from Visions of Eden to Black Light Bachannalia . I’m a big fan of Visionsand think it belongs with the five previous one. The production is the one thing holding it back. While I still enjoy Black Light, it is incredibly subpar. Actually come to think it it, I’m not sure whether the biggest drop is between these two or between Black Light and Nocturnes which was nearly atrocious.

Ditto on Maiden going from Seventh Son to No Prayer. The latter being their most uninspired record to date and featuring what I’d label as their weakest epic.

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~Guest 389043
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:04 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Everflowingstream wrote:
Reckon there is a fair drop off between Slayer's SITA and DI. Even drops further after DI with the terrible DIM. I also think Carcass shit the bed on Heartwork, biggest letdown in metal for me. Still feel the pain of dropping $30 on that turd circa quarter of a century on.

To Seasons in the Abyss was already a huge drop in quality. Then they keep dropping with each album.

Necroticism was also already a huge drop in quality. Boring death metal played (and written) by robots. They also kept going lower with each album after that.

Everflowingstream wrote:
Another one - Pungent Stench with 'Club Mondo'. Terrible album to follow the great 'Been Caught Buttering'.

Oh yeah that's a massive one. I'm glad I recently finally discovered Phantasm, they sound a lot like a proper third Pungent Stench album could have been, especially the title track off The Abominable.


I will check Phantasm out.

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~Guest 389043
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:06 pm 
 

CloggedUrethra wrote:
Quote:
Reckon there is a fair drop off between Slayer's SITA and DI.

DI is my favourite Slayer album and imo way better than SITA. For me, I'd put the biggest drop off as "South of Heaven" after "Reign in Blood". They were on another planet for "Reign in Blood" compared to the other thrash bands and "death metal" bands at the time, and then they follow it up with a sellout Metallica-wannabe rockstar garbage album for "South of Heaven". WTF


We are at opposite ends on this one. SOH is probably my favourite Slayer album.

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Rocka_Rollas
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:08 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:43 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Maiden going from Seventh Son to No Prayer for the Dying just seems insane when you look back. It's like they just ditched everything and started completely from scratch on their whole style, which I guess was the idea - but the way they did it was just so bad in other ways.

These 4 songs have clear and obvious traces of the Seventh Son sound, so I have no idea where this "cliche" of bashing the No Prayer album for being so different from Seventh Son... There's some complete duds on the album, sure... But there's enough "Seventh Son" quality that I think saying No Prayer is so different is just something that people say without REALLY thinking about it.

Here's the songs I talk about...







There's a couple of more songs on the album I enjoy, but they wouldn't necessarly fit on Seventh Son

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GTog
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Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:07 am 
 

Amon Amarth went through an (almost) spotless discography, then followed up Twilight of the Thunder God with Surtur Rising. Such a disappointing album, for me. Yes, I know people liked it, but I didn't, nor did anyone at the show when I saw them perform it. They did one set of Surtur Rising in its entirety, then a second set of a mishmash of pre-Surtur stuff. The whole audience was just kind of standing around for the Surtur set, waiting for it to be over.

Probably also an unpopular opinion - Behemoth's Evangelion is one of my favorite albums, and I really really did not like The Satanist. Like, at all. To my ear, it has precisely one good song on it, the final track O Father O Satan O Sun.

In other news:

Arch Emeny - Anthems of Rebellion -> Doomsday Machine. Ugh. On the flipside, Rise of the Tyrant was next. Love that album.

Carach Angren - Death Came through a Phantom Ship -> Where the Corpses Sink Forever. And everything after that too, come to think of it.

Dark Angel - Darkness Descends -> Leave Scars.

Flotsam & Jetsam - No Place for Disgrace -> When the Storm Comes Down. Not sure what happened here, but it's like they fell off a cliff.

Ok, one more: Who listens to Gargoyle? 黒密典 (Kuromitten) is one of the grooviest sort of prog thrash things that I've heard, then 鬼書 (Kisho) is... not. Not terrible, just plain, and nowhere near the level of the previous one.
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lordcatfish
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:24 am 
 

idunnosomename wrote:
CannibalCorpse wrote:
Black Sabbath - "Cross Purposes" to "Forbidden". A singer whose voice has been shot to hell after the former album, a rapper doing one of his worst features ever on the record - what else do you need?

For Sabbath I'd say Sabbath Bloody Sabbath to Technical Ecstacy. I never really find Forbidden that bad, in fact I love a great deal of it (Shaking off the Chains riff when it blows up, Kiss of Death). Ice T basically does a spoken word bit because he was about. It's pretty minor.

You missed out Sabotage aka the best Sabbath album. Either way your point would still stand I guess, although I never found Technical Ecstasy to be that bad.
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CannibalCorpse
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:21 am 
 

idunnosomename wrote:
Ice T basically does a spoken word bit because he was about. It's pretty minor.


Still, it's part of the confused mess that the whole album portrays. Horrible production values too and I'm usually not picky when it comes to these things. Then one starts wondering about what happened to the powerful impact of Martin's voice in a timespan of barely 5 years...also, I kinda like Ice T's earlier work, so maybe that makes matters worse.

Quote:
(Rest of your picks no quibbles. Except let's not even consider Lulu a musical album, by anyone, makes life easier)


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RakdosWarlord
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:26 am
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:52 am 
 

Nile's Whom the Gods Detest and then At the Gate of Sethu. While Sethu wasn't a stinker of an album it just bugs me that it could have been so much better. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it but it seems like they recorded too hot and could have benefited from trying to refine the album better. The recording quality was not what it could have been. Oh well.

Machine Head's Bloodstone & Diamonds was a really great album. Granted Machine head has had some iffy albums before but I was legitimately excited for Catharsis before it released. This album was just one of those iffy ones.

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idunnosomename
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:36 pm 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
You missed out Sabotage aka the best Sabbath album. Either way your point would still stand I guess, although I never found Technical Ecstasy to be that bad.

Oh shit how did I forget Sabotage. That's inexcusable. I might as well have said Master of Puppets to the Black Album.

Still yeah, Sabotage to Technical Ecstasy is a big drop. It's not terrible, it's mainly far too much of the experimental and not enough of the metal (and they are best at the metal).

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:57 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
South of Heaven is rock star sellout garbage? Gimme a fucking break. Dumbest shit I've read in a while.


What it is, South of Heaven and Reign in Blood are two radically different albums, but both are equally good in their own right. Reign in Blood is the pinnacle of a thrash album- right up there near the greatest of all time (not saying it IS the greatest thrash album of all time...just that, it's certainly ONE of them.) "South of Heaven" on the other hand was more of a METAL album than a thrash album, if you follow me. They had more slower and mid-pace songs on it, but the "metal-ness" of it cannot be argued- it was a great album for what it was and what it tried to be. Great riffs, songwriting, etc- just pure metal, without the cheese factor- that's why I like it so much. But I can see a die-hard thrash/speed freak kind of being let down by it though, especially after the unbridled ferocity of "Reign in Blood."

I think there was a bigger drop of in quality between "Seasons in the Abyss" and "Divine Intervention." The latter album isn't terrible by any means, it just never seemed that inspiring to me for some reason. Most of the later Slayer stuff has that effect on me actually, as in "not much of an effect at all."

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traxan
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:52 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:22 pm 
 

Ya know, I remember when Seasons came out, Kerry, Tom and Jeff all said they wanted to slow things down on purpose because they were getting bored with the same 250 bpm and wanted to change it up. So it wasn't a decline or radical change of direction like Cold Lake, it was a band experimenting and trying something different because they were bored

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~Guest 21181
The Great Fearmonger

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:54 pm 
 

The drop from In the Nightside Eclipse to Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk was quite bad. It's like they took the somewhat formless, cloudy mixing from the first album and converted it into formless, directionless songwriting.

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Endarkening
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:51 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:05 pm 
 

Someone already mentioned Atrocity, but I'll say it again... Todessehnsucht to Blut. WTF???

I'll add Darkthrone. Transilvanian Hunger, amazing black metal album, a personal favourite (along with their 3 previous). I was so excited when Panzerfaust was released, I ordered a copy from my local record shop. When it arrived I excitedly tore into it, put it on, and...disappointment. Riffs were bland, production sucked, and the vocals annoyed the shit out of me.

Another one I recall is Black Funeral. From Empire of Blood to Moon Of Characith. Yes, Empire Of Blood had re-recorded tracks from Vampyr, but I still really enjoyed that album. I ordered Moon Of Characith as soon as FMP released it, expecting another cavernous, grim black metal experience. Instead I got lame ambient shitwave.

Thirdly; Ulver. From Nattens Madrigal to their Themes album. I LOVE Ulver's first 3 (AKA the trilogy), but Themes was such a shift in genres, too much for my black metal purist elite kvlt grim heart to accept.

PS- Add Manes to this list. From Under ein blodraud maane to Vilosophe, for obvious reasons.
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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:15 am 
 

So OSDM dudes, remember how awesome Convulse’s World Without God album was? If not, you should fix that.

Remember that awful death n roll album they put out after that? If not, be thankful.
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true_death
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:32 am 
 

Wilytank wrote:
Remember that awful death n roll album they put out after that? If not, be thankful.


I actually don't mind 'Reflections', but this post reminded me of a good one...Desultory's 'Bitterness' is one of my all-time favorite albums - it's a dark, emotional masterpiece which contains some of the most poignant and brutal depictions of depression/sadness I've heard in any song, let alone death metal. Then, they kicked out their guitarist and released 'Swallow the Snake' which is one of the worst albums in "death metal" history. I use quotations because it sounds more like if you vaguely described the genre to your local Soundgarden tribute band, then shot them full of heroin and forced them at gunpoint to play based only off that description. Just awful, embarrassing shit. The worst part is that it's sandwiched between two fantastic masterpiece classics, and two fantastic reunion albums, so it's placement in their discography is extremely awkward and random.
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Endarkening
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:42 am 
 

I thought of another one, after reading the Desultory post.

Cemetary! An Evil Shade of Grey. Fuck, what an album. Squeally, strange guitar tone, from the glory days of Black Mark. Then Godless Beauty came out. The cold, evil spirit of their debut was gone. Modern, rock infused riffs took over.
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Xymosys
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:22 am 
 

Evergrey - from the great and powerful Recreation Day to the whimpy The Inner Circle.
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miskatonic79
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Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:57 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:44 pm 
 

Rocka_Rollas wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Maiden going from Seventh Son to No Prayer for the Dying just seems insane when you look back. It's like they just ditched everything and started completely from scratch on their whole style, which I guess was the idea - but the way they did it was just so bad in other ways.

These 4 songs have clear and obvious traces of the Seventh Son sound, so I have no idea where this "cliche" of bashing the No Prayer album for being so different from Seventh Son... There's some complete duds on the album, sure... But there's enough "Seventh Son" quality that I think saying No Prayer is so different is just something that people say without REALLY thinking about it.

Here's the songs I talk about...






There's a couple of more songs on the album I enjoy, but they wouldn't necessarly fit on Seventh Son



I defend these four songs quite a bit as well!!! Always found them to be unsung classics, and to be honest, I think Maiden should have waited and made an album in 1991 titled "No Prayer For The Dark" and just combined these four songs along with Be Quick or Be Dead, Afraid to Shoot Strangers, Judas Be My Guide, and the song Fear of the Dark. Now had they done THIS, imo, it would have been one of the all time best maiden albums if not the best. Oh and maybe Childhood's End as well?
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Xymosys
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:16 am 
 

Fates Warning is a monster tune! When reconsidering NPFTD, I come to think that the only song I can't digest is Tailgunner. Every other song suits just fine and swell.
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