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Annable Courts
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Åland Islands
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:28 pm 
 

Where does our deep motivation to listen to extreme forms of music come from ?


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~Guest 354281
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:01 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:57 pm 
 

I listen to extreme metal almost exclusively these days and while that made for an interesting view and perspective, i simply do not relate to most of what is said in the video. (Not that i'm saying it's wrong, it's just not what happens to me personally)

For me it's an hoby. Something i do just because it makes me feel better when i do it. Outside of metal i'm as much of a snob as there is, have a wife, 2 kids, go to work all week, stay home with the family in the weekends and i'm pretty happy about all that and wouldn't change a thing. Extreme metal is there to fill what's remaining of my day, it's what i do when i have a me time in hand, some people do sports, others go out with friends, i rather stay home and listen to music, i don't particularly go out looking for specific music, it just happens that 99% of the music i find interesting is extreme metal.

I certainly feel no revolt against society or whatever, i'm actually a very positive person both at work and in my personal life.

The one thing i relate to is a passion for the obscure, paranormal phenomena, gore, horror, gothic imagery, etc. Always loved reading and watching movies about all that stuff. From there into music that approaches those subjects is a small step for sure.

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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 10812
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:04 pm 
 

In heavy metal, to put in a very simplified way, you up the tempo a notch, you're speed metal, you take the tempo down a notch, you're doom metal, you extend your song by a section, you're power metal. In black metal, you're epic melodic with choirs and an orchestra or you're incoherent noise with a drum machine falling down a flight of stairs, you're still black metal either way. In - very simplified - theory, this leaves a lot more room to be creative.
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burnroasted
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 am
Posts: 292
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:21 pm 
 

Because it sounds amazing

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DecemberSoul
Mirties Metafora

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 1247
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:02 pm 
 

First of all - another one of these hopelessly arbitrary subgenre tree diagrams. Almost made me shut down the video.

Anyway, just some random and assorted thoughts, keeping in line with the video:

"...can never achieve peace and harmony..." Why the hell, it sure does, and does a far superior job at it when compared to other, less skillful and expressive (i.e. cathartic) styles.

"...can never be intrinsically relaxing, calming or love-bearing..." Also profoundly disagreeing here; not everyone gets the same emotional response from a certain kind of sound.

And why would "purely artistic taste" not make sense? That statement surely lacks sense for all I know.

The ubiquity of concerts and festivals does not sit well with the introverted solitary claim either...

"longing for emptiness" is a trait I perceive and detect in shallow main stream music.

And he missed a joke opportunity by not ending with "...a Brutal Truth, so to speak"

The video may seem insightful to a casual fence-sitter, to me it's a failure with a partial exception of the "truth" segment.
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Raindream
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:56 pm
Posts: 311
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:09 pm 
 

To stoke my inner wrath into an unconquerable frenzy.

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~Guest 354281
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:01 pm
Posts: 287
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:12 pm 
 

DecemberSoul wrote:
First of all - another one of these hopelessly arbitrary subgenre tree diagrams. Almost made me shut down the video.

Anyway, just some random and assorted thoughts, keeping in line with the video:

"...can never achieve peace and harmony..." Why the hell, it sure does, and does a far superior job at it when compared to other, less musically skillful styles.

"...can never be intrinsically relaxing, calming or love-bearing..." Also profoundly disagreeing here; not everyone gets the same emotional response from a certain kind of sound.

And why would "purely artistic taste" not make sense? That statement sure lacks sense for all I know.

The ubiquity of concerts and festivals does not sit well with the introverted solitary claim either...

"longing for emptiness" is a trait I perceive and detect in shallow main stream music.

And he missed a joke opportunity by not ending with "...a Brutal Truth, so to speak"

The video may seem insightful to a casual fence-sitter, to me it's a failure with a partial exception of the "truth" segment.


Yep, i fell like it falls under the stereotype that "people who listen to metal are damaged goods", and it couldn't be further away from it

just once I would like to see a study like this that wouldn't start under that assumption, why can't it ever be that, it just sounds good to some people.

I still found it interesting because i can relate to the brutatlity, chaos, despair and otber related stuff he mentions in the video, but it's not in the way he perceives it, i find it intetesting from a third party POV, it's nothing to do with what I feel inside (or outside for that matter)

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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:41 pm 
 

Because sometimes that extra aggression or melancholy is exactly what the doctor ordered.
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~Guest 118084
With a 120kbps bitrate!

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:05 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:59 pm 
 

I've been listening to extreme metal since I was twelve years old. Cannibal Corpse was my first real death metal band and I think it was the catalyst for pending extreme metal artists. I guess it is the harsh vocals that I like about some metal bands which can be a struggle with some people.

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DecemberSoul
Mirties Metafora

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
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Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:11 pm 
 

...just wanted to add: Why no mention of awe, of beauty and other clearly positive emotions associated with extreme forms of music (not just metal, btw)?
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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1465
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:18 pm 
 

Somar wrote:
DecemberSoul wrote:
First of all - another one of these hopelessly arbitrary subgenre tree diagrams. Almost made me shut down the video.

Anyway, just some random and assorted thoughts, keeping in line with the video:

"...can never achieve peace and harmony..." Why the hell, it sure does, and does a far superior job at it when compared to other, less musically skillful styles.

"...can never be intrinsically relaxing, calming or love-bearing..." Also profoundly disagreeing here; not everyone gets the same emotional response from a certain kind of sound.

And why would "purely artistic taste" not make sense? That statement sure lacks sense for all I know.

The ubiquity of concerts and festivals does not sit well with the introverted solitary claim either...

"longing for emptiness" is a trait I perceive and detect in shallow main stream music.

And he missed a joke opportunity by not ending with "...a Brutal Truth, so to speak"

The video may seem insightful to a casual fence-sitter, to me it's a failure with a partial exception of the "truth" segment.


Yep, i fell like it falls under the stereotype that "people who listen to metal are damaged goods", and it couldn't be further away from it

just once I would like to see a study like this that wouldn't start under that assumption, why can't it ever be that, it just sounds good to some people.

I still found it interesting because i can relate to the brutatlity, chaos, despair and otber related stuff he mentions in the video, but it's not in the way he perceives it, i find it intetesting from a third party POV, it's nothing to do with what I feel inside (or outside for that matter)


Because "they listen to it because they like it" isn't interesting enough. We gotta philosophize about the angry weirdo music.

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maidenpriestmanic
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:33 pm
Posts: 589
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:34 pm 
 

I like extreme metal because it's fun or in the case of a lot black metal, i find it relaxing. The only time I use music as an outlet is when I am feeling sad or depress but I generally go to Goth/Darkwave or Agalloch for that. But in general I just like metal for its sound and sometimes badass lyrics.

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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:46 pm 
 

Sigh. Another one of those generic mischaracterizations of metal.

Music is art. Art is supposed to evoke an emotional response, somehow. It's supposed to make the viewer/listener feel something. There are rule rules regarding how to do that, or what kind of response it should elicit.

For me, some extreme metal does that. I'm not even going to bother trying to explain it. It provides that fuck yeah factor that makes me feel good.

It's not because I seek out music that fits some predefined image or expectation. I listen to a lot of music and that's just how it turns out. When the dust settles, I look around at the hundreds of CDs I own and the thousands of tracks I've downloaded, it turns out that a lot of them are extreme metal.
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~Guest 329938
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:25 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:59 pm 
 

.


Last edited by ~Guest 329938 on Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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~Guest 354281
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:16 pm 
 

I love this topic, so going to write a little more about it now that i have more time in hand.

I do believe there's some subconscious motive for some people liking extreme music and others don't. I just don't think being aggressive, violent, hopeless or whatever has anything to do with it.

In my posts above i expressed my disagreement with the video but didn't actually gave a reason for why i like extreme metal. So here it goes.

I like it because i like it is probably the easiest (and perhaps more accurate) way to put things. But i'm going to expand a bit using my perception of what makes me like extreme music, and i say perception because i'm not 100% sure this is the actual explanation for it.

I'm a fan of music, a huge fan in fact. I listen to music countless hours every day, even while doing other stuff at work or at home.

Starting with what's perceived as mainstream music (whatever genre), many metal fans are quick to dismiss it as bad music. Not in my case. I can observe quality in some of those songs and enjoy the melody. The term I prefer to use when describing more accessible music is boring. It's boring because i've been listening to music since i can remember, and in all those years I increasingly found myself exploring music that would give me that wow factor, something unexpected that would give me great pleasure in discovering because it wasn't something i had listened before.

Now, once you've listened to a good amount of different music, there's not so much left to discover. I walk into a coffee shop and there's some music playing, usually some piece of mainstream music. 10 seconds into a song i never heard before and i can guess with a fair amount of accuracy what notes are playing next, when does the chorus starts, when the drummer does a fill, and so on. Basicly the music at play, maybe has some good melody to it, but it's uninteresting and not challenging my brain and so it has no appeal. Maybe for someone who's not paying much attention and doesn't really get involved that much, meaning the majority of people, that's enough, but it's not for me.

That's were Metal comes into the picture, and later Extreme Metal. Since the very beginning of Metal it has always been the musicians goal to come up with new stuff, to innovate, to push boundaries. For a fan like me, it's the only way to go in order to keep finding interesting music to listen to.

Nowadays, I listen to extreme metal because it's a musical challenge that allows me to keep finding something new even in a song I already listened 10 times. What others perceive as noise and without a single hint of melody, my brain perceives as 3, 4 or 5 different melodies on top of each other and it's fun and exciting that I can unfold all those melodies and enjoy them all at the same time.

It's not an easy listen, that's for sure. Some get there faster than others, some never actually get to a point were they can enjoy it, but once you can understand what's happening in all that chaos and perceived dissonance, it really becomes an immersive and fulfilling experience that you can't find anywhere else.

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k311250
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:14 am
Posts: 144
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:11 pm 
 

I don't think there's a specific reason. Why do you like pizza? No reason at all.

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tahu157
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:22 pm
Posts: 889
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:41 am 
 

This has gotta be the most pretentious thing I've listened to in a long time.

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thewrll
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:33 am
Posts: 475
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:25 am 
 

burnroasted wrote:
Because it sounds amazing

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RakdosWarlord
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:26 am
Posts: 177
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:43 am 
 

Because the more I listen the more I appreciate it. The first time I listened to metal it was exciting and a bit jarring. As I have listened these past few years I can pick apart the instruments, beats and rhythms. I can pick up an album from a while back and still notice something new in it.

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 2359
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:35 am 
 

Somar wrote:
Starting with what's perceived as mainstream music (whatever genre), many metal fans are quick to dismiss it as bad music. Not in my case. I can observe quality in some of those songs and enjoy the melody. The term I prefer to use when describing more accessible music is boring. It's boring because i've been listening to music since i can remember, and in all those years I increasingly found myself exploring music that would give me that wow factor, something unexpected that would give me great pleasure in discovering because it wasn't something i had listened before.

Now, once you've listened to a good amount of different music, there's not so much left to discover. I walk into a coffee shop and there's some music playing, usually some piece of mainstream music. 10 seconds into a song i never heard before and i can guess with a fair amount of accuracy what notes are playing next, when does the chorus starts, when the drummer does a fill, and so on. Basicly the music at play, maybe has some good melody to it, but it's uninteresting and not challenging my brain and so it has no appeal. Maybe for someone who's not paying much attention and doesn't really get involved that much, meaning the majority of people, that's enough, but it's not for me.

That's were Metal comes into the picture, and later Extreme Metal. Since the very beginning of Metal it has always been the musicians goal to come up with new stuff, to innovate, to push boundaries. For a fan like me, it's the only way to go in order to keep finding interesting music to listen to.

Nowadays, I listen to extreme metal because it's a musical challenge that allows me to keep finding something new even in a song I already listened 10 times. What others perceive as noise and without a single hint of melody, my brain perceives as 3, 4 or 5 different melodies on top of each other and it's fun and exciting that I can unfold all those melodies and enjoy them all at the same time.

It's not an easy listen, that's for sure. Some get there faster than others, some never actually get to a point were they can enjoy it, but once you can understand what's happening in all that chaos and perceived dissonance, it really becomes an immersive and fulfilling experience that you can't find anywhere else.


while i empathise with what you're saying here in comparison to mainstream music, i also recognise that this is a bit a of a pretentious stance to take, and not one really rooted to reality.
if we assume all of that to be true for person x, that would lead that person not to chase down a rabbit hole of extreme metal, but to explore a vast collection of different genres all the time. after listening to many kinds of music for many hours per day, almost every day for a couple of decades (roughly - i don't remember much from my early teen years), i too find myself mostly gravitating towards extreme metal (nowhere near exclusively of course; i'm not one of those people). but person x would be also listening to tons of jazz, classical, and folk music from remote corners of the world (along with genres i don't even know about).

after years of listening to extreme metal it's pretty rare for me to come across a new extreme metal track that truly throws something new and unexpected in my face - i'm sure that would happen a lot more if i was listening to free jazz. problem is, i don't like free jazz.
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~Guest 354281
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:01 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:20 am 
 

joppek wrote:

while i empathise with what you're saying here in comparison to mainstream music, i also recognise that this is a bit a of a pretentious stance to take, and not one really rooted to reality.
if we assume all of that to be true for person x, that would lead that person not to chase down a rabbit hole of extreme metal, but to explore a vast collection of different genres all the time. after listening to many kinds of music for many hours per day, almost every day for a couple of decades (roughly - i don't remember much from my early teen years), i too find myself mostly gravitating towards extreme metal (nowhere near exclusively of course; i'm not one of those people). but person x would be also listening to tons of jazz, classical, and folk music from remote corners of the world (along with genres i don't even know about).

after years of listening to extreme metal it's pretty rare for me to come across a new extreme metal track that truly throws something new and unexpected in my face - i'm sure that would happen a lot more if i was listening to free jazz. problem is, i don't like free jazz.


It's pretentious all right, not saying it isn't, that's why i also said it's the perception i get when trying to rationalize it, maybe it's not something that can be rationalized

I don't agree with you in regards of gravitating towards other genres. Different people go looking for different things, i gravitate towards extreme metal because i have a pre disposition to like metal over other musical genres to begin with. People who give preference to jazz, alternative rock or whatever, probably gravitate towards extreme music within those genres.

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BasqueStorm
The Wettest Blanket

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 4793
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:28 am 
 

Annable Courts wrote:
Where does our deep motivation to listen to extreme forms of music come from?

I have not seen the video and don't intend to.

Because they like it and makes them feel good? :roll:

In my case, it connects directly with my attitude and viewing of life. :evil:

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 2359
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:32 am 
 

Somar wrote:
I don't agree with you in regards of gravitating towards other genres. Different people go looking for different things, i gravitate towards extreme metal because i have a pre disposition to like metal over other musical genres to begin with.


that's not what i meant.
if we assume person x to mainly want maximum stimulation/challenge for his brain from the music he listens to, he's not going to gravitate towards the extreme end of any particular genre, but on the contrary, to a maximally vast, and ever increasing collection of genres (and extremities thereof)

and like i said, i feel very similarly to what you described, i just don't think that the boring vs interesting rationalisation really works in the end, even tho' i often feel like my not liking something is caused by utter boredom of the predictability of the thing playing in the coffee shop

ps. i didn't watch the video
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Lich Coldheart
Stares into the Void

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:44 pm
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Location: Romania
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:00 am 
 

I was going to refrain from posting but fuck it; these are my two cents.

The reasons why people listen to extreme metal are very diverse, so trying to narrow them down might be outright impossible unless you are a very educated and clever psychologist. It's like asking people why they're playing video games. Some will say they like the action, others will say they like the challenge, or the graphics, or the story etc. It's the same with extreme metal. However, if I were to try and actually name a few things I'd say people like listening to extreme metal because:

1) It feels earned. It took me days to get into Sonata Arctica, months to get into Megadeth, years to get into Death. So, once you get into it extreme metal (and every form of metal, really) becomes enjoyable but you have to work for it.

2) It is goddamn intense. Given that we're talking about the extreme side of the metal spectrum, I'm gonna use the horror movie comparison. Nobody wants to watch a 'moderately' scary horror movie; it has to be scary as fuck or, in other words, intense. Extreme metal, be it death, doom, black, or even extreme goth a la Cradle of Filth has intensity in spades.

3) It's engaging. Now, it's going to be more difficult to explain why it is engaging. Actually scratch that; I'm not going to explain, I'm just going to state my opinion. I believe a lot of people gravitate to art that has a 'nastier' side to it, but they do that to various degrees: thrash (loud as fuck but not very nasty), death/black (nasty), brutal death/grind (nasty as fuck). Which is why also in every single story people want an intimidating and well-written villain. If said villain comes with some element of novelty, then it's even better. Same with extreme metal.

4) It allows you to experience different feelings. I find listening to extreme metal very useful. For example, genres such as doom metal allow you to experience feelings such as sadness without them being related to a real event in your life, which is why I believe they help you learn how to manage your feelings better. Maybe this is why so many people say they find extreme metal to be relaxing and cathartic.


tl;dr: sorry, no shortcut for you.
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IamDBR
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:58 am
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:17 am 
 

Catharsis, adrenaline rush, finding beauty within chaos, it's different, somewhat rebellious, "self-sufficient" & healthy underground, technical prowess, range of themes & topics covered (or least those that I prefer), comes in various shapes from all over the world etc etc

Also, I like distorted guitars & intense vocals.

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~Guest 354281
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:01 pm
Posts: 287
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:43 am 
 

joppek wrote:
Somar wrote:
I don't agree with you in regards of gravitating towards other genres. Different people go looking for different things, i gravitate towards extreme metal because i have a pre disposition to like metal over other musical genres to begin with.


that's not what i meant.
if we assume person x to mainly want maximum stimulation/challenge for his brain from the music he listens to, he's not going to gravitate towards the extreme end of any particular genre, but on the contrary, to a maximally vast, and ever increasing collection of genres (and extremities thereof)

and like i said, i feel very similarly to what you described, i just don't think that the boring vs interesting rationalisation really works in the end, even tho' i often feel like my not liking something is caused by utter boredom of the predictability of the thing playing in the coffee shop

ps. i didn't watch the video
ah ok, then we're on the same page

In a post earlier i said i don't specifically look for extreme metal, it just happens that 99% of the music i like happens to be so

I still try other genres, even outside of metal, but these days is usually more some of that music finding me by accident than me looking for it because i can't listen to everything out there, so that's were i make the cut.

Statistically speaking makes sense for me to almost exclusively look for extreme metal because that's were it's most likely for me to find music i like

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:47 am 
 

Because I like the intensity and dramatic soundscapes of the style, not to mention certain extreme metal styles (mostly doom/death) are bit more vivid to me and therefor lets my imagination carries away quite a bit. I also love the energy of some bands; spinning thrash and death metal at a certain volume from time to time just does it to me. I don't believe there has to be a deep reason for liking this stuff either. While I love my music to sound nihilist from time to time, I don't consider myself to be a nihilist at all.

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gasmask_colostomy
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
Posts: 1411
Location: China
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:49 am 
 

Somar wrote:
Starting with what's perceived as mainstream music (whatever genre), many metal fans are quick to dismiss it as bad music. Not in my case. I can observe quality in some of those songs and enjoy the melody. The term I prefer to use when describing more accessible music is boring. It's boring because i've been listening to music since i can remember, and in all those years I increasingly found myself exploring music that would give me that wow factor, something unexpected that would give me great pleasure in discovering because it wasn't something i had listened before.

Now, once you've listened to a good amount of different music, there's not so much left to discover. I walk into a coffee shop and there's some music playing, usually some piece of mainstream music. 10 seconds into a song i never heard before and i can guess with a fair amount of accuracy what notes are playing next, when does the chorus starts, when the drummer does a fill, and so on. Basicly the music at play, maybe has some good melody to it, but it's uninteresting and not challenging my brain and so it has no appeal. Maybe for someone who's not paying much attention and doesn't really get involved that much, meaning the majority of people, that's enough, but it's not for me.


This is one way that I can look at it. I also find lots of mainstream music quite boring and lacking in "the wow factor", because I like to listen intensively to music and I like the music to be intense too.

But that's where we differ. I find mainstream music boring, but I find most classical and jazz music boring too and those genres aren't predictable or choreographed like a lot of the Top 40 stuff you're talking about in shops and cafes.

What I like about metal is its totality - its enveloping nature. When people go to a classical concert, they often talk (quietly) to the person next to them for a while, instead of watching the performance all the way through. Even when pop artists play arena tours, the main reason that the fans can pay attention throughout the show (it's too loud to talk to your friend) is because those performers usually put on a spectacle and entertain the audience. There is a small amount of showmanship in metal, but many fans go to gigs to get stuck into the music: headbang, air guitar, mosh, or just feel it.

When you're on your own listening to music, it's the same. Metal is the style that can most often totally cut me off from the world and throw me into something else. Other genres do that too sometimes, I don't mean to say that's exclusive. However, with extreme metal, you get something special. The music forces you out of your world because of its power and intensity, as well as a large measure of unpredictability and raw emotion, which I feel is escapist, cathartic, and sublime (as in it inspires awe and a sort of feeling of transcendence).

I understand that this doesn't happen to everybody. Of course, if you feel like Taylor Swift causes the same kind of feeling for you, then you should be listening to Taylor Swift as often as I listen to Candlemass. It's just that the comfort zone is way different for different people and getting from a "normal" sense of enjoying music to being blissed out listening to Darkthrone involves moving that comfort zone a long way.

It's like the question, "Why do people like extreme sports?" Because they think football or swimming is tame and uninspiring (or simply boring), so they seek something more and push themselves to take up base jumping. That's how metal fans get into extreme metal. Those people may keep seeking more and more extreme things, or they may realize that base jumping satisfies most of their needs. For other people, they get bored of football, so they switch to tennis and then switch to basketball, and so on, then sort of circulate around each sport. Those two pictures are an extreme metal fan versus an eclectic music fan. The sportspeople still both love sport; the music fans still both love music.

To clarify and sum up: I'm not necessarily a huge extreme metal fan, just a metal fan with some extreme tastes, but there's no other kind of music that pushes me to those places and keeps me suspended for as long as - importantly - good extreme metal.

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Annable Courts
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:25 pm
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Location: Åland Islands
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:11 pm 
 

Interesting replies. I appreciate reading different opinions about this, I realize the analysis in the video isn't shared by a majority but hopefully there's a little bit of content there that can just make a few people think.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:32 pm 
 

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Last edited by ~Guest 394415 on Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ace_Rimmer
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 3215
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:13 pm 
 

Extreme metal doesn't do more for me than good music of any genre but good death metal is good fucking metal. You get lost in it as gasmask states. Getting lost in the drums and riffs of Spheres of Madness is the same feeling I get when getting lost in Times Stands Still at the Iron Hill, 21st Century Schizoid Man, or Channel 1 Suite.

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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 1416
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:39 pm 
 

I'm not watching the video, sorry, so i'm gonna say why I, personally, listen to extreme metal: I like the way it sounds, or at least some of it. That being said, I prefer more "normal/traditional metal" and thrash metal, myself. My favourite sub-genre of extreme metal is straight up death metal. Other extreme metal is fine but it's not something I listen to on a daily basis. For one thing, extreme metal seems to be more of an "album genre(s)" than single songs. I can easily just listen to some Maiden, Priest, Metallic,a Pantera, etc. songs on shuffle as I walk outside. But I can't really do that with 95% of extreme metal bands. All of their songs blend in together in one album, basically. Plus it requires a specific mood for me. I prefer extreme metal in smaller doses, while I can listen to a few/some traditional and thrash metal every day and non-metal in general.
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Annable Courts
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Åland Islands
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:20 pm 
 

exsiccation wrote:
I like extreme metal because it has intensity, technicality, and often complex, engaging composition.

Those characteristics aren't exclusive to metal - it can be found in other genres plenty often. But I find that often those things are much more endemic to metal, and there's a certain aesthetic which I enjoy. And extreme metal in particular has a way of pushing all those boundaries to their fullest.

Characterizing metal as inherently angry music for angry people has always been pretty stupid. It's not about being hateful or aggressive, it's about energy and excitement. Stereotyping metal as music exclusively for knuckle-draggers or social outcasts would be just as dumb as stereotyping country music as exclusively for rednecks and wife-beaters. The video's got a couple of points and observations that make sense, but when it tries to turn that into a psychological commentary of the listener, or a discussion of what that entails for their beliefs about the world, I think it goes off the rails.

gasmask_colostomy wrote:
What I like about metal is its totality - its enveloping nature. [...] There's no other kind of music that pushes me to those places and keeps me suspended for as long as - importantly - good extreme metal.

This is a phenomenal way of putting it.

Huh, yeah. Like who else listens to country.

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gasmask_colostomy
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
Posts: 1411
Location: China
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:58 pm 
 

Annable Courts wrote:
exsiccation wrote:
Stereotyping metal as music exclusively for knuckle-draggers or social outcasts would be just as dumb as stereotyping country music as exclusively for rednecks and wife-beaters.


Huh, yeah. Like who else listens to country.


Dude, you should come down to Hefei, China where I am. There's a nice little Irish bar here that plays some great country music to expats and drunk businessmen. And this is a place where the wives beat their husbands.

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TheLoneForest
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:16 pm
Posts: 760
Location: Quebec
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:38 am 
 

Because it's good. Not everything needs a reason

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Xymosys
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:19 am
Posts: 895
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:25 am 
 

Because im stuck in it since I can remember, can't get out so easily now...
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HaPoStaPu
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am
Posts: 183
Location: Armenia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:51 pm 
 

Enjoyable video, makes some sensible/funny points.

It's obviously different from person to person. Apart from the energy and overall intense, raw sound I like the expression of things close to my heart, like anger, violence, horror, sadism, ultra violence, hate, disgust and horny. If I look at some mainstream stuff it often seems to express self pity, regret, whining, whinging and other nonsense. I don't get why people enjoy that. I'm quite happy with my toxic, male, emotional spectrum, I guess. Joking aside, if I look for other kinds of emotions then there's only classical for me.

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Annable Courts
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Åland Islands
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:27 pm 
 

TheLoneForest wrote:
Because it's good. Not everything needs a reason

Everything does HAVE a reason though.

Xymosys wrote:
Because im stuck in it since I can remember, can't get out so easily now...

Gotta wait til the end. Be the reaper's hand.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 3876
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:25 pm 
 

DecemberSoul wrote:
"...can never achieve peace and harmony..." Why the hell, it sure does, and does a far superior job at it when compared to other, less skillful and expressive (i.e. cathartic) styles.

"...can never be intrinsically relaxing, calming or love-bearing..." Also profoundly disagreeing here; not everyone gets the same emotional response from a certain kind of sound.

And why would "purely artistic taste" not make sense? That statement surely lacks sense for all I know.

The ubiquity of concerts and festivals does not sit well with the introverted solitary claim either...

The video may seem insightful to a casual fence-sitter, to me it's a failure


The video is wrong about basically everything... I felt the same about it.

I listen to a lot of death metal even when I'm relaxing, and it helps having a calming, a soothing effect on me. It's cathartic music, plus it is a genre of music that is extremely crafty, honest, authentic and shows musicianship pushed to the extreme and some seriously amazing song-writing. That only makes it very interesting to listen to.

It's funny how for people who are not extreme metal fans, the "extreme" aspect of it seems to be the most important part of it all. It isn't. If I love death metal, sure the heavyness and brutality helps, but it's not what attracts me to it. Hence the fact that I can be very calm and relaxed when listening to it. I can enjoy just sitting down and listening to it and focus on the intricate little details.

And I cannot stress enough that there is nothing inherently "negative" about the music itself, of course if you dig within the lyrics you'll find a ton of violent and gory stuff, but the music itself is just music. Sure it's heavy, it's loud, it's fast, it's saturated, but music cannot be "violent" or "brutal", music on a purely sonic level cannot harm people, it's just sound waves. So obviously the response that people have to this music will vary a lot. Extreme metal has very positive impacts on me. It makes me feel better, more alive, it makes my brain work and helps me focus on professional or creative tasks.

The guy in the video suggests that people who enjoy this kind of music have to be people who are unhappy or negative in life... and that's just seriously stupid and based in absolutely nothing. These kinds of conclusions are really common and stupid among non-metal listeners. Like we can't truly be happy and enjoy a song that talks about a serial killer or a nuclear holocaust. It's like these folks have never heard of fiction. Typically when you ask these people if they like war movies, or horror movies or sci-fi movies, or drama movies, or basically any kind of movie that deals with sad, violent, depressing themes, they'll answer that they do... So they typically agree that you can enjoy artistic creations that deal with negative emotions, but fail to apply this to music for some reason.

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DecemberSoul
Mirties Metafora

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 1247
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:40 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
The video is wrong about basically everything... I felt the same about it.

I listen to a lot of death metal even when I'm relaxing, and it helps having a calming, a soothing effect on me. It's cathartic music, plus it is a genre of music that is extremely crafty, honest, authentic and shows musicianship pushed to the extreme and some seriously amazing song-writing. That only makes it very interesting to listen to.

It's funny how for people who are not extreme metal fans, the "extreme" aspect of it seems to be the most important part of it all. It isn't. If I love death metal, sure the heavyness and brutality helps, but it's not what attracts me to it. Hence the fact that I can be very calm and relaxed when listening to it. I can enjoy just sitting down and listening to it and focus on the intricate little details.

And I cannot stress enough that there is nothing inherently "negative" about the music itself, of course if you dig within the lyrics you'll find a ton of violent and gory stuff, but the music itself is just music. Sure it's heavy, it's loud, it's fast, it's saturated, but music cannot be "violent" or "brutal", music on a purely sonic level cannot harm people, it's just sound waves. So obviously the response that people have to this music will vary a lot. Extreme metal has very positive impacts on me. It makes me feel better, more alive, it makes my brain work and helps me focus on professional or creative tasks.

The guy in the video suggests that people who enjoy this kind of music have to be people who are unhappy or negative in life... and that's just seriously stupid and based in absolutely nothing. These kinds of conclusions are really common and stupid among non-metal listeners. Like we can't truly be happy and enjoy a song that talks about a serial killer or a nuclear holocaust. It's like these folks have never heard of fiction. Typically when you ask these people if they like war movies, or horror movies or sci-fi movies, or drama movies, or basically any kind of movie that deals with sad, violent, depressing themes, they'll answer that they do... So they typically agree that you can enjoy artistic creations that deal with negative emotions, but fail to apply this to music for some reason.


Duff, the agreement is mutual here, nice post! :)
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