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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:48 am 
 

Posted this to Priest. They'd wake up, hopefully, and realise passionate music didn't use to be about financially securing your old age.
(By the way, there's an interview from last year where Rob Halford sincerely asks: "Is Freewheel Burning on Stained Class?"... So not too sure about the passion left.)

"Do whatever it takes to bring back KK Downing - especially if you are to continue in the future. In addition to the live 50-th anniversary celebration, the fans would love perhaps an old-school-ish album featuring Downing - especially if he complained Tipton stinted him - this would be a chance to shine. If he's as zealous to return to Priest as it appears, do take him back. Put aside personal sentiments - this pettiness and unprofessionalism is beneath the Priest we know. Quite frankly, the fans have been puzzled as of late. Andy Sneap, I suppose, would rather see KK back, than take more time off his regular job to attempt playing the parts of a guitar god. Another replacement-guitarist is unthinkable - KK and Glenn are both essential to the band that defined, from the 70s on, what metal is per se, and mapped the evolution of metal - extreme metal... I could go on, but the point is you can't keep undermining and ignoring KK Downing because of some personal feud.
Consider the fans and the outside perspective!"

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:00 am 
 

I'm not sure what you think is going to happen here. Even if by some miracle they listened to you, it isn't like the music that resulted would magically be back to the quality of their very early work again... I'm sure they could maybe do some good stuff, but this is a band that peaked a long time ago and that material worked because they were young and on fire with passion. Hard to replicate that kind of ethos now, years later. Most metal bands have this problem.

But honestly it's a long shot at all to even try to send them some message like that. They know how they work as a unit and probably have good reasons for doing everything they're doing. Opinions about the music aside, I don't see the point in this gesture.
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kluseba
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:09 am 
 

I disagree on all accounts. Firepower was the band's greatest record in decades. Nobody needs K.K. Downing to come back. We don't need an old school record either, we can just listen to the older material and enjoy the fresh energy of the most recent output. It's also not a problem if a man who is sixty-seven years old and plays in a band that has released nineteen full length records can't exactly remember which song was included on which album.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:15 am 
 

Sounds good, and I'll add to it with my own idea. There are companies in South Korea that clone your deceased dog from genetic material you send in. Metallica should exhume some of Cliff's DNA, send it to one of those companies and just say it's dog DNA to avoid any issues with the legality of cloning a human being. Then they should raise the clone on classic rock and weed for 18 years and have him rejoin Metallica in 2038.
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:19 am 
 

@Empyreal - The "point in this gesture" is to express a fan's opinion, if I may. Don't Priest themselves claim 'we're family".;)
I'm not sure they know how they work as a unit, if at all there is a unit. There's resentment between Downing and Tipton/the management; Tipton has always been the band's boss, and the others don't have a say. Andy Sneap sounded puzzled when responding to a message of mine last year - he said he was rather reluctant to join, but couldn't say no to Tipton. Said he hoped to see KK back, and yet "the situation in the band is very complex".

I don't care if the band continues - minus Nostradamus and an odd song like Hellrider, since their reunion it's been a farce. However, this is Judas Priest, the most important band in metal history, and we care.
Of course a new album won't be like the old - but my point is, if they are to continue, I'd rather see Downing write and play, than this Firepower thing all written by Faulkner. Most importantly, KK's book is all iteration of how Tipton stinted him as both a composer and a player. If so, he'll have a lot to hopefully prove.

If you think JP know what they're doing now, you've obviously not seen them live lately. The problem precisely is that there is no unit, it could well be the Halford band.

P.S. I can't even go into argument with those who claim Firepower is good; furthermore, "as good as Defenders" etc.

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kluseba
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:25 am 
 

I have seen them live last year and the band sounded great and looked like a unity to me. I haven't heard any negative comments about the band's recent run of concerts. Most people who attended shows a decade ago even claimed that the band sounds much stronger today than back then. Redeemer of Souls was a weak effort and I was afraid the band was slowly losing it but Firepower exceeded my expectations and proved that the band is still hungry and not just doing it for the money.
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aloof
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:44 am 
 

Rob Halford just shared your post on his instagram... Ian Hill liked it and commented "sure, let's get KK back". Glen liked it too.
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:51 am 
 

Ian Hill is a great positive guy who does respond on facebook.
And there may have been a recent hint by Faulkner that "KK talks to the management", and "who knows?" - I doubt he'd have uttered that if not "coordinated" with the band.

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gasmask_colostomy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:53 am 
 

aloof wrote:
Rob Halford just shared your post on his instagram... Ian Hill liked it and commented "sure, let's get KK back". Glen liked it too.

Are you...? You! You are!

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:55 am 
 

Firepower is the best we can expect from Priest at this point. Considering how much I personally enjoyed and replay it quite a bit, I'm okay with that.
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:50 pm 
 

_flow wrote:
If you think JP know what they're doing now, you've obviously not seen them live lately. The problem precisely is that there is no unit, it could well be the Halford band.
.



I actually *have* seen JP live 3 times in the last 5 years. They were amazing each time, and I also think Firepower is one of their best albums in a long while. Sorry, I just flat out disagree with the entire premise of this thread.
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:00 pm 
 

I take it you prefer the rhythm guitar/lead guitar format to double lead...

Firepower is a joke, but there's another extensive thread on that.

On a serious note, anyone who'd even instinctively feel opposed to the idea of Downing rejoining the band, is hardly a Priest fan or even a metal fan, imo. I have to struggle to comprehend the impetus for such an inclunation, for it is beyond me, if it isn't sheer fanboyism.

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rexxz
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:03 pm 
 

No, sorry. People just don't agree with your assessment at all. There's no right or wrong here. I and many others are voicing opposition to your ideas, it's nothing more complicated than that and certainly not a "I'm right you're wrong" kind of scenario even in the slightest.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:06 pm 
 

_flow wrote:
I take it you prefer the rhythm guitar/lead guitar format to double lead...

Firepower is a joke, but there's another extensive thread on that.

On a serious note, anyone who'd even instinctively feel opposed to the idea of Downing rejoining the band, is hardly a Priest fan or even a metal fan, imo. I have to struggle to comprehend the impetus for such an inclunation, for it is beyond me, if it isn't sheer fanboyism.


Because the band has been around forever, likely doesn't have that long left anyway and has already done plenty of great albums with him in the band before?

It's just weird that you feel you can control who is in a band or that your opinion matters to them that much. If he rejoined the band I'm sure it would be fine but I'm not about to write them a fucking letter demanding it...
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:11 pm 
 

I can't see anything wrong with a guitar legend who seems eager to rejoin the band he helped form, continuing to contribute to that band, for the benefit of the listeners. I cannot fathom who'd object to hearing Downing live again, on Sinner. Perhaps you'd enlighten me. Especially if you think Andy Sneap is a better fit.

@Empyreal - control who's in a band? Haha...
As I ironically hinted, Priest have always said the fans and the band formed "the Priest family" - just offering my five cents as a family member. ;)

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rexxz
Where's your band?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:13 pm 
 

I have no opinion either way concerning which member is playing with them, I'm just telling you that plenty of people (obviously including me) really enjoy Judas Priest live lately as well as enjoyed the Firepower album (which I think was really good). You having an opposite opinion doesn't mean you're right or wrong, all it proves is that you don't like JP live now and you don't like Firepower. That's fine, but it's not some objective fact that either of those things are good or bad like you're trying to say. You are of course well within your rights to have a preference and state it, as are we all. In the end that's literally all (and nothing more) these declarations amount to, our preferences. I'm just being more honest about this fact.
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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:19 pm 
 

After all the weird and awkward press K.K.'s done since he left, I wouldn't want him back now, anyway. That noise would still be lurking in the background and will likely never be completely resolved, everyone waiting for the other shoe to drop. What's the point in the band putting itself and the fans through that, especially at their age?

Anyone whose ever had an acrimonious falling out with a friend or family member knows fully well how much of a toll it can take.
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:30 pm 
 

The war of words was worse with Halford; and the pettiness recently has come from both sides equally. "The fans won't miss KK", "Andy has found his perfect little niche in the band", "KK insinuated that Glenn didn't play on the record", etc. The latter, coming from Halford, was actually the most biased thing I read.
In fact, all Downing did, was to quite gentlemanly try to break the omerta by voicing some personal feelings in his book.

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:34 pm 
 

While I don't care that much about Firepower or even live priest nowadays, Stained Class is one of the best albums in all of metal. I love all the 70s material really, and a fair amount of the 80s stuff is good too. So obviously, on a personal level, an old-school-sounding Priest/a celebration of my favourite era of the band would be great, and yes, it would be ideal if kK were there, too.

But really, you don't think the band members have thought of all this already? I read a ramble from KK fairly recently and it's clear that he and Glen just don't get along anymore. That happens, unfortunately, You can't force a relationship to work out, and that goes doubly so if it's already gone sour. How can you imply that they're playing with the new guy for financial reasons ... surely most of the fans would like to see the famous guitar duo back, but what's going to make them both be quiet and force a good relationship? hmm, maybe lots and lots of money? Nah, better try the best you can to save your band and get new performers if you have to.
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:43 pm 
 

Stained Class is sheer magic.

It's been Glenn's band throughout - and given the genius he is, I don't dispute it, on the contrary - I have a feeling even Halford is not as essential to Priest as Glenn. So Glenn got all the adulation, including his recent appearances which he makes just to get showered by fan love some more.
The point is, Glenn will hardly keep appearing, and the iron hand will inevitably weaken its grasp, perhaps even behind the scenes.
Glenn and KK (we agree they'll never reconcile) won't have to share a stage anymore - which presents the opportunity for KK's return.
It will undoubtedly be the best thing for the band IF they're to continue (I don't insist, they do!), and if indeed KK is so eager to contribute.

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rexxz
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:46 pm 
 

I actually took my dad with me to see them in January and he saw them several times in the early to mid 80s (I have a banner flag from an '86 concert he gave to me), he liked the new show just as much if not moreso than when he caught them back in those days. So, while I can empathize with your desire to see KK back with them, I just don't think it's going to happen because a huge amount of people are still very much happy with the shows they are putting on. Maybe if they were tanking their career and everyone hated their performance all of a sudden you might have some justification, but that isn't happening so...
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:30 pm 
 

It's a glorified Halford solo band at this point, and getting increasingly pathetic.

Time to get KK back for one final world tour and call it a day. Even if they hate KK's guts there is no reason they can't tour with him. Other bands have put up with more for less.
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:34 pm 
 

Finally a voice of reason.

This interview made me concerned about Rob actually.
Around 26:12 - "Is Freewheel Burning on Stained Class?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHXxuki1JZ8

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TrooperEd
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:33 pm 
 

_flow wrote:
Posted this to Priest. They'd wake up, hopefully, and realise passionate music didn't use to be about financially securing your old age.
(By the way, there's an interview from last year where Rob Halford sincerely asks: "Is Freewheel Burning on Stained Class?"... So not too sure about the passion left.)


w e w l a d
e e
w w
l l
a a
d d

Edit: Well guess chalk it up to senility at this point.

KK needs to come back, especially if Glenn is not going to be able to travel on the road with Priest anymore. and Bill Curbishley needs to give Jayne Andrews some shiny toy to play with while he helps the band Rise From the Ruins.


I'll see myself out.
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:50 pm 
 

I doubt Curbishley has any finger in Priest. Jayne has been Glenn's tool, but now Glenn is virtually gone, the question is who makes decisions for Priest.

Anyway, happy metal Monday, metal maniacs of molten metal. Hurry and post your cat pictures, because dragonaut is near.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:42 pm 
 

_flow wrote:
@Empyreal - control who's in a band? Haha...
As I ironically hinted, Priest have always said the fans and the band formed "the Priest family" - just offering my five cents as a family member. ;)


They refer to it as a family, true. But in no way is it a democracy.
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_flow
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:17 pm 
 

Apparently, Glenn won't ease his silent grasp even now. And Ian has been made an unlikely mouthpiece, wording the most bizarre things with such ease. It had almost made me question his intelligence, until I read some highly eloquent posts on his facebook...

As a rock fan, this all made me seek a breath of fresh air in Francis Rossi's newly released book, "I talk too much".

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pale_horse
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:27 pm 
 

Judas Priest posts here?
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TrooperEd
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:17 pm 
 

_flow wrote:

As a rock fan, this all made me seek a breath of fresh air in Francis Rossi's newly released book, "I talk too much".



Having become a recent convert to the Quo army, I really want to read that (as well as Rick's book too).
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_flow
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:59 am 
 

I'm also a recent convert - it's the Priest mess that somehow lead me to Rossi. I opened a blabbermouth article, and there he was, slamming his bandmate for his alcohol abuse, while at the same time it seemed he cared deeply. I found myself enthralled by his video interviews (obviously charming, as well as entertaining), and both he and Rick introspective and honest. None of that bullshit facade... Says Rossi: "The music is great. The rock'n'roll lifestyle? 95% is rubbish, and the other 5% is... well, rubbish." Here he is at Wacken with some retarded interviewer, enjoy. :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACteqO3Sc5A
As to the music - I had always ignored Quo because I thought they were monotonous poppish rock'n'roll - but I found there was subtlety as well as solid groove to that monotony, and I was entirely taken by surprise by early Quo - hypnotized by "I Need Your Love", for example. It almost sounds like doom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuQjc9zISCY

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:14 am 
 

I read KK's book and it's obvious that Priest was his life for 40+ years (he doesn't have a family and no wife, either). He left Priest when they were at a low point (Tipton clearly didn't give much of a shit when I saw them live last in 2010 or so). Downing was the only one actually trying at that gig and it has since become obvious that he really didn't like playing with Tipton due to his drinking towards the end (there is plenty of evidence of his sloppy playing, too, if you care to look).

Who knows how long they can get Sneap to hang around for? I seems like he's not keen on staying for that long and, frankly, he's not a Judas Priest guitarist to put it bluntly. His talents lie elsewhere. Having one guitarist play the majority of the leads just seems weird and I'm not a fan of Faulkner's playing (as talented as he is as a guitarist, I don't want to hear his Zakk Wylde licks in Priest songs).

Halford's back on form and that's great to hear, but I'm not paying 60 quid for a Priest gig without KK (he was always my favourite Priest guitarist).
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AndySlayer
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:46 am 
 

Quote:
I disagree on all accounts. Firepower was the band's greatest record in decades. Nobody needs K.K. Downing to come back. We don't need an old school record either, we can just listen to the older material and enjoy the fresh energy of the most recent output. It's also not a problem if a man who is sixty-seven years old and plays in a band that has released nineteen full length records can't exactly remember which song was included on which album.


This, to the letter.
OP: have you gone and seen them live lately?

On the topic of live performances, I understand that they're at a certain part of their career where there's a need for members who just hold the music together with solid ass playing. The current guitar team do that well enough and I'm happy with that, KK Downing has never been that type of player. More of a whammy bar type soloist and all around looser, sloppier guitarist, worked fine decades ago, didn't work for me in post-reunion Priest.

Besides, don't people always clamor for Lars and Kirk to get replaced because they suck? Minus Glenn's unfortunate health situation, Priest have gone on and permanently replaced two "legacy" members since Painkiller for better players and all people do is whine, ugh.

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_flow
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:02 am 
 

@Acrobat
You're lucky you didn't see them live in 2015. Tipton was in another place. I love him and I thoroughly enjoyed it - it was like a bluesman towards the end of the road, who had already transcdended... He'd even turn his back to the audience and strum obscure bluesy chords. It was like a Tom Waits show, in a way ("the piano has been drinking, not me"). I felt I was in for a treat - I couldn't care about their recent dragon songs... although, with 60-70 y.o. men screaming about dragons, it felt even more surreal. But clearly, this wasn't Priest in any agreeable way.
I approached Glenn after one of the gigs, telling him I had come to follow this entire leg of the tour, from another country. He could not be less impressed: "Oh yeah?" - and I'd never smelled so much whiskey in a breath.
I saw a fairly recent video of Glenn (a few months ago), backstage just before walking on, seeing the bottom of a beer bottle. Sneap is next to him trying to look away. And then the curtains open, and there's giant screens with Glenn, and the audience ecstatic. A sad farce.
KK is so gentlemanly in the book, he may as well have not said anything. I'm sure he struggled to not speak and do with vague hints, to give at least an idea why he left.
I say all that while having profound appreciation for Glenn. I'm not a fan of KK artistically, but I can thoroughly appreciate him.
Faulkner is a spineless player - and person, from what I've observed. I suppose his childish delusions of grandeur serve the band well - he carries the workload.
If Priest are to preserve any authenticity, they are to take KK back. He's the only one at this point with dedication, passion and concentration. I'm a big Halford fan, but it makes me question lately to what extent he is "there" at all.

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_flow
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:09 am 
 

AndySlayer wrote:
OP: have you gone and seen them live lately?



Of course. Just once (saw them more than ten times on the previous tour). Empty stage, empty sound - it's like with Glenn's absence all the magic went away - I struck me how he filled and lit the stage, in whatever state he was in. How distinctive his sound, even if he just strummed a chord.
It was a very sad experience. Faulkner making his muppet faces, Sneap with the charisma of a wet towel, not to mention his playing. Rob carrying the entire load of the show, while struggling to catch his breath (for twenty seconds before one song I recorded).

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rexxz
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:43 am 
 

Must have caught a different band than the one I saw 3 (going on 4) times now. I had a polar opposite experience of yours. Who else in this thread has seen them live? I know I saw in the FFA thread several other forum users who saw them and also thought they put on a great show. You sound a little jaded, to be honest!
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ObservationSlave
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:26 am 
 

_flow wrote:
I take it you prefer the rhythm guitar/lead guitar format to double lead...

Firepower is a joke, but there's another extensive thread on that.

On a serious note, anyone who'd even instinctively feel opposed to the idea of Downing rejoining the band, is hardly a Priest fan or even a metal fan, imo. I have to struggle to comprehend the impetus for such an inclunation, for it is beyond me, if it isn't sheer fanboyism.


No one who lists Nostradamus as one of their favorite albums of the last decade or so should be talking shit about Firepower. You have all these fringe opinions about Judas Priest and seem surprised when the majority of people disagree with you.

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AndySlayer
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:38 am 
 

Quote:
Must have caught a different band than the one I saw 3 (going on 4) times now. I had a polar opposite experience of yours. Who else in this thread has seen them live? I know I saw in the FFA thread several other forum users who saw them and also thought they put on a great show. You sound a little jaded, to be honest!


Two dates in a row last summer, one with a guest appearance by Glenn. The sets and playing were top notch, the atmosphere was spot on, very few of the hundreds of young bands I've seen and gigged with could hold a candle. I went in expecting way less and considered cancelling the trips after the news about Glenn broke. I decided to go in the end and was proven wrong big time.

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Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:31 pm
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:05 pm 
 

@the populist above:
I am also a black metal aficionado, so pardon me for resenting "the majority of people", and please don't beat me up for "talking sh*t" about Firepower. I know the majority of Judas Priest fans would; they were also dismayed by Rob's coming out, nevermind that he waved yellow, red and black hankies in their face - hence Firepower comes as a palatable meal for their aesthetic and overall cognitive capabilities, in the form a watery mush.

The rest of the audience could peruse KK's book.

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 2415
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:33 pm 
 

Faulkner truly sucks, as a creative force. None of these Firepower fans will support his own music once JP is over, just like no one supported his music before he was in JP. So many superficial "fans" love vanilla, uninspired heavy metal as long as it has the esteemed Brand Name written on the front. Try to imagine this current line-up trying any musical risks and succeeding the way the KK/Tipton/Halford trio did so many times throughout their career. They have to stick with this meat-headed fan service or they are totally done.
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Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:31 pm
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:35 pm 
 

I had PM-ed Faulkner once, unrelated to music - I barely noticed him musically or personally, even if in front of him - it was to do with the fact that I found any critical comment of him disappear from the JP facebook page (for example, comments about his laughable "Falcon" webpage). To me Priest and Halford mean freedom of expression more than anything. So, I asked him whether he applied censorship (Rob would never delete anything, even vile homophobic comments).
What this guy did, was to plaster my message publicly, summoning his fanboys to bash me - ending the ordeal, which lasted a while, with a juicy "f off". The conversation between us mainly consisted in me asking repeatedly why has he the urge to take my inquiry out in the open, and in him sending me off to youtube (?!), "where there is already enough negativity directed at me".

I sometimes wonder how Halford feels about the whole situation; he's infantile in his public posts, at the same time I can't dismiss the sagacious and sensitive person he was/is.

Btw, I copied this from another discussion somewhere; interesting:

"Even without the internet, it was obvious back in the Painkiller era that Glenn was calling the shots and that Halford left because Glenn was hung up on doing Sci-Fi songs for "The Kids". One of the big giveaways was in Judas Priest interviews. Nearly all interviews would have Rob & Glenn, very few had KK. And during those interviews Glenn would often babble on about how he knew what "The Kids want" and you could see Halford knew Glenn was full of shit!

It never occured to Tipton who always said that "The Kids love that stuff" had grown out of it and the current kids were not into it either. Once GNR introduced people to metal riffs in street level songs, Sci-Fi metal was passe. While GNR screwed around for several years, other street level bands like Nirvana became huge.

Metal was on life support, metal bands were trying to look like grunge, and Glenn still put out Jugulator which looked like a 15 year old album for teen boys in 1982 instead of 1997.

The puzzling thing is why didn't other Priest band members stand up to Glenn?

Glenn's fasicination with Sci-Fi is and his stubborn insistance that it belongs in Priest music is what stopped Judas Priest for reaching their greatest potential.

There have been a few stories told about why Halford left Priest. One that was told before the emergence of the internet and has been lost over time was that Tipton promised Halford that the followup to Painkiller would be reality based as Halford wanted. And then broke his word. Many lines in Halford's War Of Words reflected that experience such as the lyrics to "Reality, A New Beginning"."

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