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BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way
https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123744
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Author:  gasmask_colostomy [ Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

VaderCrush wrote:
Venom's Welcome to Hell sounding like it was recorded in a moving pubic transit bus greatly enhances it

Isn't that one of those Japanese movies that everyone keeps telling me about? I finally see where Abigail got their inspiration.

Author:  at the gaytes [ Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

I_Crash_and_Burn wrote:
Malevolent Creation- Stillborn


I never understood what is so bad about the production on this one. Sounds OK to me

Author:  Unorthodox [ Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Emperor's Anthems to Welkin at Dusk. Everything is mixed at practically the same volume, which, for a lot of people, makes for a shitty album. But for me, I love it. It makes an ethereal soundscape that has never been even remotely close to replicated.

Author:  Yuli Ban [ Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Bad production producing a better album goes back to near the very birth of metal itself— Bedemon's "Child of Darkness" was around 1974, and it sounds exactly like it was recorded in some crackhouse bathroom, or as if someone dug up a record somehow conjured by pagan warlocks in 17th-century Eastern Europe. The utterly atrocious quality makes Liebling sound like a phantom.
Doom metal arguably has yet to surpass it. Electric Wizard goes on about recording with vintage '70s equipment and loads of bands like Uncle Acid & The Deadbeats love looking like they were the assistant musical act for a weird '70s Spanish erotic horror director. Bedemon smacks them to the ground.
Youtube: show

Youtube: show

In a manner, it predicated doom and black metal alike.

Around this same time, there was also Iron Claw. 1970s sound recording wasn't top tier compared to what we have now, but this is just amateur. And damn does it work. It sounds just like how the album cover looks. Skullcrusher sounds like Sabbath did DMT, while Winter sounds likes as if Iron Maiden jumped back a decade and had to record a song through cans connected by strings.
Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Author:  ModusOperandi [ Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

at the gaytes wrote:
I_Crash_and_Burn wrote:
Malevolent Creation- Stillborn


I never understood what is so bad about the production on this one. Sounds OK to me

Maybe a little too much reverb on the vocals but yeah, it's fine otherwise. It's not far removed from the typical Scott Burns + Morrisound combo to my ears. Malevolent Creation have far inferior production on some later albums.

Author:  MorbidEngel [ Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Unorthodox wrote:
Emperor's Anthems to Welkin at Dusk.


I dunno, I wouldn't mind if it it was a bit less muddy and claustrophobic.

Author:  Jophelerx [ Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Adramelch's Irae Melanox is the perfect example of this for me - I have no idea whether it was accidental or intentional, but the murky haze atop those really thin, fragile-sounding guitars makes it sound like you're in some ancient catacombs or something and it's awesome.

Author:  Gemini 7 Rising [ Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Yuli Ban wrote:
Bad production producing a better album goes back to near the very birth of metal itself— Bedemon's "Child of Darkness" was around 1974, and it sounds exactly like it was recorded in some crackhouse bathroom...

Around this same time, there was also Iron Claw. 1970s sound recording wasn't top tier compared to what we have now, but this is just amateur. And damn does it work. It sounds just like how the album cover looks.


wow. These are as perfectly "shitty" as it gets. And to my original point, I doubt it was intentional... probably just the best they could do & afford at the time.

And Iron Claw beats out Bedemon, imo, but DAMN, they both SUCK :lol:
But fit.

Author:  Mitosis [ Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Two albums that comes to mind is Brodequin - Methods of Execution (or all of their discography) and Wormed - Planisphærium.
Both are an acquired taste, it took a lot of spins to hear every detail and I wouldn't want them any other way now.

Author:  jimbies [ Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

I like the way And Justice For All sound. I truly do.

Author:  MARK9000 [ Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Nokturnal Mortum - Goat Horns (1997)

While the instruments sound clear enough, their volumes are all messed up: the drums and keyboards sound louder than everything else, while the guitars, bass and vocals (to some extent) sound rather quiet, BUT when you listen in mono, rather than stereo, the mix becomes inverted (the keys and drums sound quiet and the rest loud).

It seems like they recorded the instruments well enough, but messed up during the mixing. Also, the drums sound pretty fake, in the sense that, while it's clear that a drummer whas used, the individual sound of each part of the drum sounds pre-recorded, like if it was triggered or an electronic drumkit was used.

But I got used to it eventually...

Author:  GOOFAM [ Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Refuge Denied.

Author:  Subverter [ Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Youtube: show

This is an example of perfect production, in my opinion; but I'm sure there are a bunch of whiny contrarians out there who would say otherwise. In their defense though, I'm sure this was a complete mindfuck of an album to listen to for the first time.


GOOFAM wrote:
Refuge Denied.

People are always bitching about this one for some strange reason - probably because Dave Mustaine had a hand in producing it, and Dave is a mean poo-poo headed jerk according to the metal community. Everything is virtually flawless on this album except for that stupid Jefferson Airplane song, which isn't really the worst thing in the world.

Author:  Oxenkiller [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

I never got into that Blind Illusion album posted above, but it wasn't really just that the production was bad- rather that it really didn't suit the material. My main gripe: The music was the main thing that was hard to get into; it was a strange mix of epic progressive D&D metal, 80's thrash, 70's classic rock, and traditional metal that didn't always work. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. There are staff members on here who swear it's the greatest album ever, but to me it was more of a curiosity of the late 80's metal scene put together by some dude jamming with a couple guys from Primus (another band I never really got into.)

Author:  InnesI [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

I love Megadeth's So Far, So Good... So What? album. I've seen many people complaining about the sound. The original has that wet sound and the remix/remaster is its opposite in that it is very dry. Although I think the remixes worked on some of the albums I actually think this is one of the cases where I definitely prefer the original.

Author:  HaPoStaPu [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

jimbies wrote:
I like the way And Justice For All sound. I truly do.


It's ok in a way but at least one of the plus bass versions on Youtube makes it sound much, much better and way more effective. Much more impact and power.

Otherwise, there are tons of records where a "bad" production works just fine. It's not bad bad production, just rough, noisy and raw, which works fine for me.

Author:  InnesI [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

HaPoStaPu wrote:
It's ok in a way but at least one of the plus bass versions on Youtube makes it sound much, much better and way more effective. Much more impact and power.

Otherwise, there are tons of records where a "bad" production works just fine. It's not bad bad production, just rough, noisy and raw, which works fine for me.


Which is the hard part - where do we draw the line? Mentioned albums here like Cradle of Filths Cruelty and the Beast and Mayhems Grand Declaration of War have productions many have complained about. Not only do I love the albums, and the sound being a huge part of that, I don't really think the production is bad. It's just them going for something different or specific. So liking the production, thinking it heightens the albums personality or atmosphere, would probably (by definition) make it a good production job. It's just that it's not what is most often is considered good.

Author:  FLIPPITYFLOOP [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

MorbidEngel wrote:
Unorthodox wrote:
Emperor's Anthems to Welkin at Dusk.


I dunno, I wouldn't mind if it it was a bit less muddy and claustrophobic.


+1 - a lot of the nuances in the instrumentation got lost in the production. Hearing it done live felt like hearing the album for the first time all over again.

Author:  Trashy_Rambo [ Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

I don't know if it would be considered bad, but the production on Crystal Logic (Especially the drums) is as dry as old parchment, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Author:  thrashinbatman [ Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Subverter wrote:
Youtube: show

This is an example of perfect production, in my opinion; but I'm sure there are a bunch of whiny contrarians out there who would say otherwise. In their defense though, I'm sure this was a complete mindfuck of an album to listen to for the first time.


GOOFAM wrote:
Refuge Denied.

People are always bitching about this one for some strange reason - probably because Dave Mustaine had a hand in producing it, and Dave is a mean poo-poo headed jerk according to the metal community. Everything is virtually flawless on this album except for that stupid Jefferson Airplane song, which isn't really the worst thing in the world.

I really don't know how Refuge Denied could be considered produced badly by any real standard. Everything is clear, the guitar tone is tight, the vocals are very well recorded, and that snare is several years ahead of it's time. Incredibly punchy.

Author:  Diplomate [ Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Unorthodox wrote:
Emperor's Anthems to Welkin at Dusk. Everything is mixed at practically the same volume, which, for a lot of people, makes for a shitty album. But for me, I love it. It makes an ethereal soundscape that has never been even remotely close to replicated.

I don't know, the production is much better than on the In the Nightside Eclipse. I like the debut though and can't get into Anthems.

Insomnium's One for Sorrow has a pretty bad sound, but I can't imagine it with a better production now.

Author:  Gravetemplar [ Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Diplomate wrote:
Unorthodox wrote:
Emperor's Anthems to Welkin at Dusk. Everything is mixed at practically the same volume, which, for a lot of people, makes for a shitty album. But for me, I love it. It makes an ethereal soundscape that has never been even remotely close to replicated.

I don't know, the production is much better than on the In the Nightside Eclipse. I like the debut though and can't get into Anthems.

Not sure about this one either. I really wish the 16khz CRT noise wasn't there, it gives me headaches (check it with a spectrogram, it's there). I also think the keyboards are too loud. I preffer In the Nightside Eclipse's production.

Author:  Twisted_Psychology [ Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

The Born Again production has never bothered me. I love how songs like Disturbing the Priest and the title track sound like they're coming from some underwater cavern. It's a little silly on the hard rock numbers toward the end but that'd happen regardless.

The productions on the debut albums by Saint Vitus and Pentagram are also lovably bad. The former was allegedly recorded entirely live and the latter was originally released as a demo so the lofi quality is to be expected. Yet the atmosphere given off by each is so distinct in that they offer a lot of grainy abrasiveness without losing sight of the melodies. Nothing else really sounds like them.

On the flip side, the production on Refuge Denied has never sat right with me. The vocals are pushed too far back in the mix and the guitar tone is way too thin for what they're going for. I got to see the new Sanctuary lineup perform last night and as blasphemy as it feels to say, the fuller tones they had live enhanced a lot of that material.

Author:  Eqvimanthorn [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BAD PRODUCTION... and you wouldn't have it any other way

Oxenkiller wrote:
"Vampires of Black Imperial Blood" had one of the sickest reverb guitar tones I have ever heard. But the guitars are fucking out of tune...Arrrgh! That one ALMOST works really well. If more bands had used that echo-y reverb distortion but with a better mix, more attention to detail (i.e. tuning their instruments before recording) and maybe better songwriting, not that Mutiilation are THAT bad mind you- there would potentially be some really killer albums out there.


Man, maybe I'm in the minority but I absolutely love that album. I listened to that album every single day for nearly two straight winters. It definitely sounds shitty sometimes, but some of the riffs just hit so hard.

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