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Gemini 7 Rising
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 181
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:06 am 
 

I guess because it was so entertaining reading the "Manowar calling it quits" thread and laughing my ass off at fans & non-fans alike going off on exactly when Manowar should have "called it a day" & thrown in the towel, I thought of this.

These are the type of opinions we all hear anyhow in the 'Reviews' or just general discussion, because, if you're into this kind of music, chances are you're a fairly opinionated person. So I don't think we need a whole lot of analysis on the 'whys' of your choices- just give what you think was the high-point for the band... OR even an album or 2 beyond that, if you feel they were still doing pretty solid work, and we'll leave it at that.

Since it's going to be said right away anyhow, I'll grab Metallica & the obvious choice for many people, '...And Justice For All'. It was a fast, steep decline from there (imo) and- here's the main point- HAD THEY LEFT IT THERE, we'd still be going, "Damn... whatever happened to Metallica? Why'd they'd pack it in? What a band", as opposed to, "What happened to Metallica and when will they go away?" Don't mean to offend anyone who likes Metallica as they are (their place in history is secure) but they just always felt like a different band with a different agenda from that point on, for a lot of people.

I don't know, maybe it takes a 'Manowar' or an 'In Flames' to really get mileage out of this, so have at it boys & girls, you probably know better than me- Who, and at what point, do you wish it had been OVER?
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MawBTS
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Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
Posts: 802
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:16 am 
 

Quote:
Who, and at what point, do you wish it had been OVER?


It's a tough question, because so many bands declined while still writing good songs.

Running Wild obviously became massively worse around 2000, but I wouldn't say they should have broken up after The Rivalry. That would have denied us songs like "The Hussar" and "Black Bart".

Gamma Ray basically stopped feeling relevant after No World Order, and that album would have ended their career on a high note. But have they written good songs since? Yes.

Even post-1988 Metallica sometimes delivered the goods: "Through the Never" and "The Judas Kiss", to name a couple.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
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Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:27 am 
 

Oh man, plenty. The first one that came to mind was In Flames, but I know that's going to be many peoples' answer as evident by the many In Flames topics and posts.

I'll go with another, though, Ministry. The long and dark history of this band rested on the shoulders of Al Jourgensen, so any decision on putting the band to rest falls on him. He had the right idea back in 2008 to call it quits, knowing that pushing the band to its most extreme and going out in a blaze of glory was the right way to do it. The Last Sucker was that album, a heavy and thrashing finale to the Bush trilogy that also gave some hope for greener pastures in Al's life. Turns out he couldn't let it go. Cover albums followed, and Al knew he had no talent for anything else in life looking like the ugliest living effigy tatted and pierced up. Before we knew it, the touted split was brought back quick and Al decided he needed to put out more albums that were far more uninspired and lacked clear-headedness. Then Mike Scaccia dies, a huge blow to the band. Al was supposedly too devastated to go on and this led to another split after again stating that this was the final nail in the coffin. Then Al like a good zombie bucks and bursts out of the coffin, with more material prepared and this time it's far worse and embarrassing. Like shitting on Scaccia's death. It's Al's band in the end, but reversal after reversal ends up meaning more unnecessary albums. Cool if you want to see them live, I wish I did, but they've got nothing backing it up besides the old stuff.

Running Wild was another one. The Brotherhood should have been Rolf's last album - him and his computer. Yeah I like Rapid Foray a bit but I didn't want to have to have Rogues, Shadowmaker, and Resilent exist before getting to it. Rolf should have taken his doo-rag like a towel during a bout and thrown it back in 2002.
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 6:06 am 
 

Opeth - Watershed. Their new stuff is just bad.

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KrigareTjovane
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:06 am
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 7:50 am 
 

I could make a case for a stopping point after a few Iron Maiden albums, but 2003's Dance of Death is the last album they made that I get any enjoyment from. Everything released since is boring old man metal and I'm still a hip young buck so fuck that noise. Of course many people would take that a step further and cut Dance of Death off too, but it was one of my first Maiden albums so I'll always look to it for nostalgic inspiration.
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idunnosomename
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
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Location: England
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:01 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:

Running Wild was another one. The Brotherhood should have been Rolf's last album - him and his computer. Yeah I like Rapid Foray a bit but I didn't want to have to have Rogues, Shadowmaker, and Resilent exist before getting to it. Rolf should have taken his doo-rag like a towel during a bout and thrown it back in 2002.
Well he did throw it back in 2009 but then he realised he needed the money in just three years of messing about with Peter Jordan in other projects. I mean it is his profession and his livelihood. It's okay for Slayer to retire because they CAN, quite easily.

Rushing out Shadowmaker was his hubristic mistake, I think. It damaged his band's brand to "comeback" with something so weak after such a short time away.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:30 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
I'll go with another, though, Ministry. The long and dark history of this band rested on the shoulders of Al Jourgensen, so any decision on putting the band to rest falls on him. He had the right idea back in 2008 to call it quits, knowing that pushing the band to its most extreme and going out in a blaze of glory was the right way to do it. The Last Sucker was that album, a heavy and thrashing finale to the Bush trilogy that also gave some hope for greener pastures in Al's life. Turns out he couldn't let it go. Cover albums followed, and Al knew he had no talent for anything else in life looking like the ugliest living effigy tatted and pierced up. Before we knew it, the touted split was brought back quick and Al decided he needed to put out more albums that were far more uninspired and lacked clear-headedness. Then Mike Scaccia dies, a huge blow to the band. Al was supposedly too devastated to go on and this led to another split after again stating that this was the final nail in the coffin. Then Al like a good zombie bucks and bursts out of the coffin, with more material prepared and this time it's far worse and embarrassing. Like shitting on Scaccia's death. It's Al's band in the end, but reversal after reversal ends up meaning more unnecessary albums. Cool if you want to see them live, I wish I did, but they've got nothing backing it up besides the old stuff.


What I find egregious about Ministry is how Al has made it abundantly clear that he absolutely HATES doing anything Ministry related yet people still put up with his shitty new material just because they want to see him live. It boggles my mind.

As much as I enjoy Belus and Fallen, the alternate universe with only the first four Burzum albums sounds like it could be nice.
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jimbies
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:44 am 
 

So far, Anathema's Weather Systems.

I didn't dislike Distant Satellites, I actually love some of the songs. But I really REALLY didn't like The Optimist. And ending your career with just a monumental record, especially with the closing track Internal Landscapes, would have been one hell of a finale. However, these folks are still quite young, so I didn't expect them to hang it up. Hopefully they have have another incredible record soon.

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Lord_Jotun
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:47 am 
 

Amon Amarth could have quit after Twilight of the Thunder God and I would have been ok with it. It's not like they turned to dogshit afterwards, but so much what they've put out since goes into one ear and out of the other for me.

I've been revisiting my personal Blazebirth Hall collection after news of Kakdrad's death spread and I've realized it's a shame that his passing ended both Branikald's and Forest's discographies on somewhat lesser notes. Triumph of the Will is a massive letdown after the atmospheric excellence of Frostvision and the slightly folkier leanings of the 2000 albums, and while In the Flame of Glory is decent for what it is (minus that godawful Absurd cover), it really doesn't feel like Forest at all. Different lineup, different themes, different sound - I honestly don't know why it was released under that name.
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D4nzig
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:21 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:57 am 
 

I think Ozzy should have never come back . All he does since 1995 are boring albums and boring predictable shows with pretty much same setlist. No More Tears could have been a perfect swansong,what a shame it wasn't.

Another candidate for quitting while still on top would be Queensryche. They probably had the longest string of unimpressive albums but if they called it quits after Promised Land tour none of that shit would have surfaced.

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Twin_guitar_attack
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 10:26 am 
 

I wish Pestapokalypse VI was the last Belphegor album. Because everything after that is bland as fuck paint by numbers black/death that goes in one ear and out the other. Yet the later material is almost the entirety of their setlist and I can never enjoy them as much as I could because they play all the boring ones instead of their best material.

As an opposite, given I cannot get into any of Ihsahn's solo material, Emperor quit at exactly the right time.
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lordcatfish
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 10:42 am 
 

D4nzig wrote:
I think Ozzy should have never come back . All he does since 1995 are boring albums and boring predictable shows with pretty much same setlist. No More Tears could have been a perfect swansong,what a shame it wasn't.

Ozzmosis is fairly decent and I really like Down to Earth, but can live without anything after that.

I'd have Avantasia end after The Scarecrow. Other than Ghostlights, the albums since have been pretty patchy. I'd be willing to lose Ghostlights and maybe have the good songs from 2010 onwards worked into an extra Edguy album or two.

Masterplan's first two albums are brilliant, everything after less so. Ending with Aeronautics would leave them a nice one-two combo legacy.
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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 12:11 pm 
 

Twin_guitar_attack wrote:
As an opposite, given I cannot get into any of Ihsahn's solo material, Emperor quit at exactly the right time.


I was thinking of Emperor when I was trying to come up with one, and I agree, here's a band who may've walked away at exactly the right moment. Some will no doubt argue it should have been after 'Anthems To The Welkin...' and I never much got into 'IX Equilibrium', but 'Prometheus' is pretty awesome.

And then... nothing...
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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 12:51 pm 
 

Satyricon to end preferably after Nemesis Divina, or by the latest, after Rebel Extravaganza.

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:55 pm 
 

D4nzig wrote:
I think Ozzy should have never come back . All he does since 1995 are boring albums and boring predictable shows with pretty much same setlist. No More Tears could have been a perfect swansong,what a shame it wasn't.


"Ozzy" is nothing without Bob Daisley, the real songwriter behind all the hype.
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exsiccation
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:49 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 2:32 pm 
 

I'm gonna say Iron Maiden has two distinct moments like that in their career. The first is directly after Seventh Son, for pretty obvious reasons. Those albums coming afterwards aren't terrible, but they certainly wouldn't have been missed if they had never been made.

The other peak was right after Dance of Death after Bruce re-joined for Brave New World. A Matter of Life and Death still managed to be a decent album, but man, The Final Frontier and The Book of Souls are just tired, embarrassing slogs and never should have happened.


Also, Judas Priest should have stopped after Painkiller. There have been some brief bright moments on the later albums, but they are few and far between, and seeing the band's slow decline has been depressing.


Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
Twin_guitar_attack wrote:
As an opposite, given I cannot get into any of Ihsahn's solo material, Emperor quit at exactly the right time.


I was thinking of Emperor when I was trying to come up with one, and I agree, here's a band who may've walked away at exactly the right moment. Some will no doubt argue it should have been after 'Anthems To The Welkin...' and I never much got into 'IX Equilibrium', but 'Prometheus' is pretty awesome.

And then... nothing...

As great as Ihsahn's stuff is (IMO), he made the right move going solo at that point. Even though there will always be some people who don't like his new stuff, it still more or less let him continue in his own direction without it affecting Emperor's legacy.

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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:53 pm 
 

Ævangelist with Omen ex Simulacra. The first two albums by this band were brilliant nightmarish black/death with industrial influence. Beyond that, they fell too much in love with avant-garde and free jazz and wound up making uninteresting blobs noise. Matricide in the Temple of Omega from last year was a riffless mess with shit drums and the band is really going out on a wimper with the drama that erupted shortly after its release.
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Rosenthorn
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:59 pm 
 

Virgin Steele should've just stopped after Visions of Eden. DeFeis's ego is too big to let that happen, sadly.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:40 pm 
 

Watching Judas Priest go out with a whimper has been depressing.
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Conan Troutman
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:48 pm 
 

jimbies wrote:
So far, Anathema's Weather Systems.

I didn't dislike Distant Satellites, I actually love some of the songs. But I really REALLY didn't like The Optimist. And ending your career with just a monumental record, especially with the closing track Internal Landscapes, would have been one hell of a finale. However, these folks are still quite young, so I didn't expect them to hang it up. Hopefully they have have another incredible record soon.


Anathema should have packed in after Judgement for me. If they wanted to carry on done the route they have, they should have admitted it was a new band.

In Flames should have given up after Whoracle, COB after Blooddrunk and I'm trying to decide if Slayer should have gone on after Divine Intervention. I suppose Christ Illusion wasn't all bad.

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MetallicaTrueFan
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:23 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 5:31 pm 
 

I don't really like this category in some aspects. For me this comes from the ideal of long running bands and the fact that they can't always be very consistent as it is that they have to make new music at a huge rate and it is difficult to strive for perfection... even if the artist is a one trick pony or is someone who likes to experiment a lot. Not everybody can be Queen (who even then made Hot Space) or even AC/DC (who went into a decline from the mid 80's to mid 90's).

Though if I have to pick I would say that Dream Theater has declined in the post Portnoy era. The albums seem to lack the umph they once had. Even then I have really liked Distance Over Time which gives me some hope for future releases. Another example from me would be Nile (post Those Whom The Gods Detest) and Sonata Arctica (from Stones Grow Her Name onwards).
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Draehl
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 6:17 pm 
 

In Flames shoulda quit with Clayman as their final.

Gravetemplar wrote:
Opeth - Watershed. Their new stuff is just bad.


Eh. IMO Watershed is their absolute worst. Feels uninspired and you can really tell in retrospect Mike really wanted to be making prog rock. The Lotus Eater & Heir Apparent are the only two repeat-worthy tracks on the album. While I'm not the biggest fan of the prog rock Opeth albums they're pretty good when you're in the mood for it. I'll take good prog rock to meh prog death.

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at the gaytes
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 6:54 pm 
 

Pestilence - Spheres (that compilation with demos from the Testimony/Spheres era is awesome, though)

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 7:59 pm 
 

D4nzig wrote:
I think Ozzy should have never come back . All he does since 1995 are boring albums and boring predictable shows with pretty much same setlist. No More Tears could have been a perfect swansong,what a shame it wasn't.

Another candidate for quitting while still on top would be Queensryche. They probably had the longest string of unimpressive albums but if they called it quits after Promised Land tour none of that shit would have surfaced.


I agree with both of those, but I'd go back earlier- with "Ultimate Sin" and "Operation Mindcrime" respectively. I just never got into Zakk Wylde's playing, and the songwriting never grabbed me as much as the Rhodes/E.Lee years. Though "No More Tears" was okay.

I actually liked the last two Metallica albums, but if you had asked me this question around 2007 (prior to Death Magnetic) my response would have been an emphatic "And Justice for All." I'm one of the minority who thought Death Magnetic was a solid (and very good) "Comeback" album.

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Lord_Jotun
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:27 pm 
 

Twin_guitar_attack wrote:
I wish Pestapokalypse VI was the last Belphegor album. Because everything after that is bland as fuck paint by numbers black/death that goes in one ear and out the other. Yet the later material is almost the entirety of their setlist and I can never enjoy them as much as I could because they play all the boring ones instead of their best material.


Good call. I like some of the stuff they made afterwards, but something is clearly missing, and I seriously doubt it's just a coincidence this happened just as Sigurd left and they turned into one of those session members bands.

Bishop_Drugsalot wrote:
Satyricon to end preferably after Nemesis Divina, or by the latest, after Rebel Extravaganza.


I'll stretch it up until Volcano, especially the lp with those sweet bonus tracks, otherwise I agree. If I had to pick choice cuts from everything they released since I suppose I could squeeze out a decent ep.

Rosenthorn wrote:
Virgin Steele should've just stopped after Visions of Eden. DeFeis's ego is too big to let that happen, sadly.


The fact I somehow managed to forget about this speaks volumes about how hard my brain is working to pretend contemporary Virgin Steele isn't really a thing.


Draehl wrote:
In Flames shoulda quit with Clayman as
their final.


Deal! I could do with most of Come Clarity as a kind of deleted scenes comp, though. Such a glorious fluke, that one.

Draehl wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
Opeth - Watershed. Their new stuff is just bad.


Eh. IMO Watershed is their absolute worst. Feels uninspired and you can really tell in retrospect Mike really wanted to be making prog rock. The Lotus Eater & Heir Apparent are the only two repeat-worthy tracks on the album. While I'm not the biggest fan of the prog rock Opeth albums they're pretty good when you're in the mood for it. I'll take good prog rock to meh prog death.


I could have drawn the line before Watershed for the same reasons you mentioned; some quality highlights, but overall a mess. I've really, really tried to get into their layer stuff, but aside from a few cool tunes on Pale Communion it just leaves me cold. I honestly can't say why, since I enjoy a few of the bands they're obviously referencing, and I never had a problem with them going lighter as I absolutely love Damnation, but here I am. I appreciate the great musicianship, the loving care that exudes from every sound and such, but there's no spark - in me, that is.
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Gemini 7 Rising
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Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:03 pm 
 

xxxx
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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:05 pm 
 

exsiccation wrote:
Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
Twin_guitar_attack wrote:
As an opposite, given I cannot get into any of Ihsahn's solo material, Emperor quit at exactly the right time.


I was thinking of Emperor when I was trying to come up with one, and I agree, here's a band who may've walked away at exactly the right moment. Some will no doubt argue it should have been after 'Anthems To The Welkin...' and I never much got into 'IX Equilibrium', but 'Prometheus' is pretty awesome.

And then... nothing...

As great as Ihsahn's stuff is (IMO), he made the right move going solo at that point. Even though there will always be some people who don't like his new stuff, it still more or less let him continue in his own direction without it affecting Emperor's legacy.


Exactly... Under a new name for a new direction is great, as opposed to one or two original members doing something completely different or uninspired or whatever under the band's original name...

It seems pretty disrespectful & kinda like crapping all over the band's legacy when it's done in that manner (Axl Rose comes to mind)
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Yuli Ban
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 1:29 am 
 

I'll nominate Electric Wizard.

The aptly named Time to Die would have been a fine send off but I think Black Masses would have been the best stopping point. By that point, they had shifted from what they were known as ("the heaviest fuckin' band in the universe") to a more '70s erotic horror-based Lovecraftian stoner metal band, and they've doubled down on that. Back in 2007 and 2010, that was a neat little detour, but now they've been the 'Biker Sex Weirdo' Wizard for longer than they were 'Heaviest Band Ever' Wizard but everyone still knows them as the 'Heaviest Band Ever' (which was only even true for a roughly three year period anyhow and was always subjective).

If it was Jus and Liz with a band named 'King of the Witches' or something like that, no one would've had much of a problem with it all. Instead, everyone just gets to watch a once-great band stumble deeper into mediocrity, following a crowd that they themselves once led but now can't stand out from because their old disciples are doing it better, and eventually it just comes to a point where people start asking if this band was ever really that good or if they just got lucky and only persist off the goodwill they earned from it.

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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:22 am 
 

Draehl wrote:
In Flames shoulda quit with Clayman as their final.

Gravetemplar wrote:
Opeth - Watershed. Their new stuff is just bad.


Eh. IMO Watershed is their absolute worst. Feels uninspired and you can really tell in retrospect Mike really wanted to be making prog rock. The Lotus Eater & Heir Apparent are the only two repeat-worthy tracks on the album. While I'm not the biggest fan of the prog rock Opeth albums they're pretty good when you're in the mood for it. I'll take good prog rock to meh prog death.

I still prefer Watershed over their attempts of recreating 70s prog rock. They are just not good at it. Damnation was great but their last 3 albums are a mess. Most metal musicians should stick to metal, honestly. And I really like prog rock, I love King Crimson.

Yuli Ban wrote:
I'll nominate Electric Wizard.

The aptly named Time to Die would have been a fine send off but I think Black Masses would have been the best stopping point. By that point, they had shifted from what they were known as ("the heaviest fuckin' band in the universe") to a more '70s erotic horror-based Lovecraftian stoner metal band, and they've doubled down on that. Back in 2007 and 2010, that was a neat little detour, but now they've been the 'Biker Sex Weirdo' Wizard for longer than they were 'Heaviest Band Ever' Wizard but everyone still knows them as the 'Heaviest Band Ever' (which was only even true for a roughly three year period anyhow and was always subjective).

If it was Jus and Liz with a band named 'King of the Witches' or something like that, no one would've had much of a problem with it all. Instead, everyone just gets to watch a once-great band stumble deeper into mediocrity, following a crowd that they themselves once led but now can't stand out from because their old disciples are doing it better, and eventually it just comes to a point where people start asking if this band was ever really that good or if they just got lucky and only persist off the goodwill they earned from it.

Yeah, they should have quit years ago. I draw the line at Witchcult Today, that was their last good album imho and it's a lot worse than Dopethrone.

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awhiteguy
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:55 am 
 

Ensiferum should have called it after From Afar, as everything after just comes off as low-effort and uninspired compared to the first 4 albums. Also, the band members have been getting fatter with each release, to the point where it's embarrassing seeing them live or in music videos. Petri used to look like an Elf from the Lord of the Rings films. Now he looks like a washed-up Elf with a fisstech addiction from The Witcher series.

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RichardDeBenthall
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Posts: 352
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:53 am 
 

Opeth and Watershed I can definitely get on board with. It was my first Opeth album so I find it difficult to see the flaws in it but I just can't really get on board with the prog albums. I am a huge prog rock fan but these albums feel like tribute attempts and almost completely lack the special feeling that those 70's prog records had. Opeth's pre-Watershed albums are on the other hand completely brilliant (IMO of course) and I think that they stand apart from all modern prog-metal in terms of their quality, vibe and development.

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Gravetemplar
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 314
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:01 am 
 

I agree, both Opeth and Maudlin of the Well/some Kayo Dot are the best progressive metal ever done.

Also, A Natural Disaster should have been Anathema's last album.


Last edited by Gravetemplar on Tue May 07, 2019 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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HaPoStaPu
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am
Posts: 161
Location: Armenia
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:29 am 
 

I feel that not buying their albums is punishment enough, no need to kick them when they're down and wish that they gave up their hobby/job just as they suck now. In a way it's quite funny if a supposed cult band shits all over its history as it pisses some of the fans off so much and it can still provide entertainment.

Quote:
Sick Boy: It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.
Mark: What do you mean?
Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed.
Mark: Lou Reed, some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy: No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.
Mark: So who else?
Sick Boy: Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley . . .
Mark: OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?
Sick Boy: All I'm trying to do, Mark, is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
Mark: What about The Untouchables?
Sick Boy: I don't rate that at all.
Mark: Despite the Academy Award?
Sick Boy: That means **** all. It's a sympathy vote.
Mark: Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?
Sick Boy: Yeah.
Mark: That's your theory?
Sick Boy: Yeah. Beautifully ****ing illustrated.

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Gravetemplar
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 314
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:44 am 
 

HaPoStaPu wrote:
I feel that not buying their albums is punishment enough, no need to kick them when they're down and wish that they gave up their hobby/job just as they suck now. In a way it's quite funny if a supposed cult band shits all over its history as it pisses some of the fans off so much and it can still provide entertainment.

Quote:
Sick Boy: It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.
Mark: What do you mean?
Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed.
Mark: Lou Reed, some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy: No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.
Mark: So who else?
Sick Boy: Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley . . .
Mark: OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?
Sick Boy: All I'm trying to do, Mark, is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
Mark: What about The Untouchables?
Sick Boy: I don't rate that at all.
Mark: Despite the Academy Award?
Sick Boy: That means **** all. It's a sympathy vote.
Mark: Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?
Sick Boy: Yeah.
Mark: That's your theory?
Sick Boy: Yeah. Beautifully ****ing illustrated.

While I get your point, I think there are also artists that released some of their best stuff (if not their absolute best) later in their careers. Scott Walker comes to mind.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 4652
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:16 am 
 

Yuli Ban wrote:
I'll nominate Electric Wizard.

The aptly named Time to Die would have been a fine send off but I think Black Masses would have been the best stopping point. By that point, they had shifted from what they were known as ("the heaviest fuckin' band in the universe") to a more '70s erotic horror-based Lovecraftian stoner metal band, and they've doubled down on that. Back in 2007 and 2010, that was a neat little detour, but now they've been the 'Biker Sex Weirdo' Wizard for longer than they were 'Heaviest Band Ever' Wizard but everyone still knows them as the 'Heaviest Band Ever' (which was only even true for a roughly three year period anyhow and was always subjective).

If it was Jus and Liz with a band named 'King of the Witches' or something like that, no one would've had much of a problem with it all. Instead, everyone just gets to watch a once-great band stumble deeper into mediocrity, following a crowd that they themselves once led but now can't stand out from because their old disciples are doing it better, and eventually it just comes to a point where people start asking if this band was ever really that good or if they just got lucky and only persist off the goodwill they earned from it.


I can agree with this. As much as I enjoy Witchcult Today and Black Masses for their catchiness, their two after them were pretty phoned in. They're not at a bad point yet in my opinion, but their clones in bands like Monolord and Cough are clearly outdoing them at this point. The Sword was at a similar point and their recently announced hiatus seems to reflect an understanding of this.

I do think Queensryche should've dropped the name after Chris DeGarmo left. As much as I enjoy the albums with LaTorre, it's really not the same band without DeGarmo's dynamics. They could've released all those crappy follow-ups as Geoff Tate solo albums and then kept the Rising West moniker for the LaTorre era.

I'm starting to wish Bobby Liebling had OD'd sometime in the 90s.
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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 2439
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:10 pm 
 

There is no $$$$$ in the name Rising West so that was never going to happen. It was just a name to audition Todd in front of a live Queensryche crowd and nothing more.
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HaPoStaPu
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am
Posts: 161
Location: Armenia
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:33 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
HaPoStaPu wrote:
I feel that not buying their albums is punishment enough, no need to kick them when they're down and wish that they gave up their hobby/job just as they suck now. In a way it's quite funny if a supposed cult band shits all over its history as it pisses some of the fans off so much and it can still provide entertainment.

Quote:
Sick Boy: It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.
Mark: What do you mean?
Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed.
Mark: Lou Reed, some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy: No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.
Mark: So who else?
Sick Boy: Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley . . .
Mark: OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?
Sick Boy: All I'm trying to do, Mark, is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
Mark: What about The Untouchables?
Sick Boy: I don't rate that at all.
Mark: Despite the Academy Award?
Sick Boy: That means **** all. It's a sympathy vote.
Mark: Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?
Sick Boy: Yeah.
Mark: That's your theory?
Sick Boy: Yeah. Beautifully ****ing illustrated.

While I get your point, I think there are also artists that released some of their best stuff (if not their absolute best) later in their careers. Scott Walker comes to mind.


Oh, absolutely. Just look at classical composers as well. Getting on a bit doesn't mean that you'll suck. When it comes to music that's based on youthful energy and anger it may be a bit harder to keep it up forever but there are some bands who managed to rather well or who return to being good after a few years of producing crap.

I'm just generally quite grateful for the good times they've provided once, even if they're fat, bald and have saggy tits now.

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IKnowNothing
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 1:39 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:02 pm 
 

Had Black Sabbath called it a day after Mob Rules there wouldn't be those horrible 80's/early 90's albums. On the plus side their final album with Ozzy was actually a good one, so I think they retired o a high note.

Someone said Ozzy should've quit after No More Tears and, even though I like some stuff on Ozzmosis, anything that came after is just generic and forgettable.

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idunnosomename
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
Posts: 307
Location: England
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:10 pm 
 

Dream Theater would've been better if they took that break Portnoy wanted them to do. Started losing their identity after Scenes from a Memory by basically being their own biggest fans and doing far too many homages to other bands to the point of pastiche. Even now when they've managed to start writing shorter songs again it's just like, what's the point. What are you doing. Who ARE you

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 2439
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:15 pm 
 

idunnosomename wrote:
Dream Theater would've been better if they took that break Portnoy wanted them to do. Started losing their identity after Scenes from a Memory by basically being their own biggest fans and doing far too many homages to other bands to the point of pastiche. Even now when they've managed to start writing shorter songs again it's just like, what's the point. What are you doing. Who ARE you


I think they lost the plot after Kevin Moore left. Rudess is one of the most boring musicians around.
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