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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1192
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:32 pm 
 

I guess one could argue that Bathory should have ended with Twilight of the Gods in 1991. It was the in many ways the most elaborate and intricate work that Quorthon had ever done, and as he said in interview, it was about as far as he could go in that direction. The sad and apocalyptic themes, as well as the last song being a sort of farewell, it was a fitting end to a string of brilliant albums from 84 - 91.

He could still have released Blood on Ice , as most of the material as I understand it, was already on tape in the 80s.

Requiem is somewhat underrated, but still nothing close to touching the classic albums. Destroyer of Worlds had its moments, but was mostly dull (wtf was that icehockey song...?), and Octagon is unlistenable to me. The only good albums we'd miss are the brilliant Nordland 1 and 2.

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Lord_Jotun
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 2308
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:01 pm 
 

Blood on Ice and especially Nordland made it all worth it. Weren't we talking about strong works coming late into an artist's career? There!
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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:24 am
Posts: 417
Location: Quebec City, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:53 pm 
 

Danzig - 4P

There are some good songs on the subsequent albums (except on 5) but at the end of the day, none of them are could be described as essential.
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Pitiless Wanderer
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:34 pm
Posts: 703
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:55 pm 
 

This Godless Endeavor should have been Nevermore's last album.

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 130
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 11:35 pm 
 

MawBTS wrote:
Even post-1988 Metallica sometimes delivered the goods: "Through the Never" and "The Judas Kiss", to name a couple.


And I'm sure this is true, I'd just already stopped listening at this point.

Metallica just kind of became too broad, a little too "all over the place" (and a little too 'rock and roll') from where they started out. I guess that's their biggest 'sin' imo.
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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1241
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:20 am 
 

Ulver after their black metal stuff should've just ended and the members should have just made a project with a different name for the electronic material. Instead, they tarnished their legacy by putting their new stuff under the same name and refusing to play their old shit. Whatever, bros, be egotistical fucks and never play Bergtatt. Maybe you'd sell more fucking tickets if you played it.
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CrippledLucifer
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 459
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:12 am 
 

Sure Ulver tarnished their legacy by putting out fantastic music under the same name they used to release two black metal records some solid decade before most of their fans today even knew about this band or their legacy.

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:39 pm 
 

I don't think the last two Maiden albums are bad by any stretch of the imagination, but if they'd stopped after AMOLAD then they would have gone out on a phenomenal high.

Metallica really finished as a force when Newsted left. St. Anger pretty much did for their artistic credibility - I still don't think the band have recovered from its legacy - and the subsequent two albums have had something forced about them. Crucially, though, the live intensity has gone, and I think only getting Jason back would help to fix that. I think in a songwriting sense the band could probably write another Load - indeed I think that would be the most genuine thing they could put out - but they don't have another RTL or Black Album left in them I think. They seem like their own tribute act these days.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 4527
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:01 pm 
 

As much as it would've been commercial suicide, part of me wishes that Metallica had gone on a hiatus after The Black Album and released the Loads under a different name. I know they're flawed albums but they would've likely been better received without all the name baggage.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:14 pm 
 

I think Load and ReLoad should have been a single album composed of the best tracks of each. I made my own edit some time back and prefer it to any other Metallica album apart from RTL and AJFA.

Priest and AC/DC made surprisingly strong albums with Firepower and Rock Or Bust considering they were missing key members, but I think both bands should take advantage of that and call it quits now. I've seen suggestions from both camps that another album is being considered and I can't understand why either band feels the need to put one out.

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 2307
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:42 pm 
 

I wish Lars had been kicked out around 93 and fans had accepted his replacement by now.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 6365
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:58 pm 
 

Unpopular Opinion:

Grave Digger haven't released anything worthwhile since the excellent Rheingold. They really should have stopped there--it's just been a slow, greasy slide into the darkest depths of mediocrity ever since.
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idunnosomename
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
Posts: 287
Location: England
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:14 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
Unpopular Opinion:

Grave Digger haven't released anything worthwhile since the excellent Rheingold. They really should have stopped there--it's just been a slow, greasy slide into the darkest depths of mediocrity ever since.

Live they ignore all the Manni Schimdt albums currently. Which is a shame. I do think Return of the Reaper was top notch though.

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TrooperEd
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:18 pm
Posts: 2048
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:25 pm 
 

MawBTS wrote:
Quote:
Who, and at what point, do you wish it had been OVER?


It's a tough question, because so many bands declined while still writing good songs.

Running Wild obviously became massively worse around 2000, but I wouldn't say they should have broken up after The Rivalry. That would have denied us songs like "The Hussar" and "Black Bart".

Gamma Ray basically stopped feeling relevant after No World Order, and that album would have ended their career on a high note. But have they written good songs since? Yes.

Even post-1988 Metallica sometimes delivered the goods: "Through the Never" and "The Judas Kiss", to name a couple.


I'd argue Majestic was when they were the most relevant. After that.....eh.
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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 1116
Location: Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:30 pm 
 

Unorthodox wrote:
Ulver after their black metal stuff should've just ended and the members should have just made a project with a different name for the electronic material. Instead, they tarnished their legacy by putting their new stuff under the same name and refusing to play their old shit. Whatever, bros, be egotistical fucks and never play Bergtatt. Maybe you'd sell more fucking tickets if you played it.


If they disbanded after Kveldssanger they still wouldn't be playing any of their early stuff like. What even is your point? And "tarnish" their legacy? Nobody in their right mind would consider their post-Kveldssanger material to be bad by any means. It might not be your cup of tea, but to flatout refuse to see the artistic value of it is just stubborn.

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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:19 pm 
 

awhiteguy wrote:
Ensiferum should have called it after From Afar, as everything after just comes off as low-effort and uninspired compared to the first 4 albums. Also, the band members have been getting fatter with each release, to the point where it's embarrassing seeing them live or in music videos. Petri used to look like an Elf from the Lord of the Rings films. Now he looks like a washed-up Elf with a fisstech addiction from The Witcher series.

I agree with you. However, even though Unsung Heroes gets a lot of hate from fans, I like some songs from this album. The two albums after them are unenjoyable to me though.

Sirenia comes to my mind. If Morten just quitted music after the first two Sirenia albums, he would have stayed a legend of gothic metal (like The Sins of Thy Beloved). Tristania, to a lesser extent, also fits this description. Ashes and Illumination are not as enjoyable as the previous albums, in my opinion, although fans of gothic rock may think otherwise. Rubicon is definitely a failure, although Darkest White is somewhat of a comeback.

Nightwish is another example. They should have disbanded after Century Child.

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Thy Shrine
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 231
Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 2:07 am 
 

I sometimes wonder to myself what it would have been like for Fates Warning if they would of kept the heavier direction they hinted at on No Exit. I think Perfect Symmetry is a real great album, but I really think if Matheos or Aresti wanted to go in a thrasher or even heavier direction, they probably would have been amazing at it. Basically I want the concept of something like Opeth, with Jim Matheos, and Framk Aresti doing the songwriting.
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deopisi
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:14 pm
Posts: 162
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:19 am 
 

Satyricon, as already said by someone.
Among the bands that I know, I think they are the one with the biggest and worst involution. Once they made classics, then (after 2 decent albums) they started to make emptiness
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Lord_Jotun
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 2308
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:24 am 
 

Diplomate wrote:
Sirenia comes to my mind. If Morten just quitted music after the first two Sirenia albums, he would have stayed a legend of gothic metal (like The Sins of Thy Beloved).


How the hell did I ever forget this one? I rarely listen to gothic metal but I still come back to At Sixes and Sevens regularly; that album just nailed that entrancing atmosphere, and it's packed with catchy, gorgeous melodies. Their third full length was a huge letdown for me, and whole they've had highs and lows, nothing they've released since has come close to the quality of those early releases.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:04 am 
 

Lord_Jotun wrote:
How the hell did I ever forget this one? I rarely listen to gothic metal but I still come back to At Sixes and Sevens regularly; that album just nailed that entrancing atmosphere, and it's packed with catchy, gorgeous melodies. Their third full length was a huge letdown for me, and whole they've had highs and lows, nothing they've released since has come close to the quality of those early releases.

Those first two Sirenia albums are really good, I prefer first two Tristania albums a little bit more (probably because of Vibeke and the atmosphere), but if we take riffs alone, ASaS and AEfE are the best in Morten's career and to me the best in gothic metal in general. I just can't hear these riffs in later Sirenia, even when he somewhat returned to form since Perils of the Deep Blue, the music still lacks the atmosphere and riffs of first Morten's albums. Sometimes he manages to release a few catchy songs in an album, but the only song from later Sirenia that's on par with Morten's previous efforts is Sirens of the Seven Seas.

It's like the curse of gothic metal and death-doom, all good bands abandon the genre when they are at their peak. Melodeath is probably the opposite with bands keeping releasing similar albums over and over again, although I believe if a formula is good, it's not bad to stick to it with just a few changes and new creative ideas.

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Lord_Jotun
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
Posts: 2308
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:52 pm 
 

Actually your remark about Tristania made me think precisely about how many bands in the genre started out good and later petered out, either because they stepped out of their comfort zone with mixed results or simply lost the spark. I remember liking the first Darkwell album well enough and then I sampled a song from Metatron on some Napalm Records promo disc - huge wtf moment.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 2:00 pm 
 

Lord_Jotun wrote:
Actually your remark about Tristania made me think precisely about how many bands in the genre started out good and later petered out, either because they stepped out of their comfort zone with mixed results or simply lost the spark. I remember liking the first Darkwell album well enough and then I sampled a song from Metatron on some Napalm Records promo disc - huge wtf moment.

Yes, for many bands their first 1-2 or at maximum 3 albums are when they really have the spark, after that they lose the inspiration. There are exceptions, though, for example Therion found their true sound only when they abandoned death metal. I also feel like Insomnium peaked at their 3-4 albums, although the albums before and after are still great.
I haven't listened to Darkwell, I need to check them out.

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e_ddi_e
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:00 am
Posts: 407
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:18 am 
 

Waltz_of_Ghouls wrote:
Danzig - 4P


100 % this.

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 130
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:06 am 
 

i kind of feel Megadeth should've thrown in the towel years ago... does anyone agree, and if so, at what point?
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Gravetemplar
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 150
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:21 am 
 

Probably been said already but:

Mayhem - DMDS
Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse
Blut aus Nord - Memoria Vetusta I

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deopisi
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:14 pm
Posts: 162
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:25 am 
 

What??? Anthems..., The work which... and Memoria vetusta II are unquestionably influential masterpieces

I know, taste is unquestionable too but sometimes I can't believe what I read
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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 150
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:12 am 
 

Anthems isn't bad but it's a lot worse than Nightside. I could live with it but I wouldn't care if they hadn't recorded it either.

I don't like any of the industrial BAN albums, they bore me to tears. MVII isn't terrible but I can't get over the shitty programmed drums.

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jimbies
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
Posts: 1058
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 8:25 am 
 

Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
i kind of feel Megadeth should've thrown in the towel years ago... does anyone agree, and if so, at what point?


I did think Endgame should have been.... the end, UNTIL Dystopia happened. That is one hell of a record.

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putrevomitory
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:36 am
Posts: 344
Location: Kenya
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:49 pm 
 

Dystopia put Megadeth right back on track.
Even with their still young discography, Stoned Jesus lost me after Seven Thunders Roar.
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Gemini 7 Rising
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Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 130
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:44 am 
 

jimbies wrote:
Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
i kind of feel Megadeth should've thrown in the towel years ago... does anyone agree, and if so, at what point?


I did think Endgame should have been.... the end, UNTIL Dystopia happened. That is one hell of a record.


I guess i need to give Dystopia a fair shake
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