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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:00 am 
 

I'm not referring to intentional bad production jobs here (such as early 90s black metal), but rather to [assumed] UN-intentional bad production jobs, such as those that can be found on Suffocation's 'Breeding The Spawn', or ATG's 'The Red In The Sky Is Ours', or Immolation's 'Failures For Gods'...

While it's generally agreed that the production on said records is "bad", it's also a matter of opinion, and reading the reviews for any of the above shows that it's largely debatable, at this point, whether or not the shitty production hurts said album or somehow, in the end & over the years, has actually lent each a more distinct or intriguing personality.

For me at least, for these 3, and after years of enjoying them, I can't say I'd want them any other way. A bonus in Suffocation's case is that they've gone on to re-record each of 'Breeding's' tracks for subsequent albums, with good production, so you get to have 'em both ways. And that's great but I still love the original 'Breeding' just the way it is.

So that's what I'm asking: What "bad productions" have you grown to accept & enjoy & PREFER over the "good productions" that might have been?
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:09 am 
 

I was just commenting on someone's post about Drudkh's Estrangement in FFA, and that's precisely that. The album is unpolished and shaky on all levels, not just production, and made much better by it as well. The production is especially important. With the over-sampled drums and wall of guitars from, Blood In Our Wells, it would simply suck, instead of being the unpolished diamond that it is.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:04 am 
 

I think the production on And Justice for All being essentially a prequel to Mayhem's Grand Declaration of War with every element sounding completely terrible and clinical except the drums that are even worse than terrible actually works really well for the material on the album, everything is super sharp with zero warmth and not a single smooth edge in sight, just a really hostile sound.
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:01 am 
 

I'm not sure how to diferentiate between an intentional bad production and an unintentional one but Svartidaudi - Flesh Cathedral comes to mind. The effect on the vocals kind of sucks, there's a ton of weird stuff going on with the bass and the drums are too loud but everything together works in a pleasant way.

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raumr
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:37 am 
 

I think Widow's Weeds, the first Tristania album, fits that description. It's a very elaborate album, with pianos, strings, synths, female vocals, choirs, harsh vocals, clean male vocals etc etc, but the production is very rough around the edges. The guitars especially sound more like buzzing bees distortion than actually heavy riffs.
But I like it like that. It gives it a harsh edge without being 'heavy' in the traditional brutal sense. I think if they had the same production as the average Epica or Nightwish record, then it would not be so atmospheric.

I really didn't like it when I first heard, but now I wouldn't want it any other way.

EDIT: I'm also thinking about a black metal band with a record that has awful production. The bass is REALLY loud for some reason and the guitar is only audible on the one side. I really grew to love that, but I am having a total black out...

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:44 am 
 

Is it The Book of the Heretic?
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Rippingheadache
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:48 am 
 

Organic Infest - Penitence

Image

The album was released on by label the JL America, which for those who don't know, were the second-rate, fly-by-night version of Wild Rags. That should sort of clue you in on the cheapness of the production. The guitars are extremely quiet-sounding, almost resembling an overactive beehive from a distance. And yet for me...it works.

I think the reason why is due to their style. Organic Infest play what is ostensibly Butchered at Birth-era Cannibal Corpse worship, with some influences from many of the stuff released by Drowned Records. However, there's these weird little touches that permeate the album. Unexpected angular riffs that sometimes dot in and out of songs, Glen Benton-esque roars that suddenly explode in loudness, etc. Couple these with the uneven production and I hear something oddly captivating.

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LordStenhammar
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:57 am 
 

Let's see, what is there: Nattens Madrigal by Ulver, Beherit's two first albums, Blasphemy, Hellhammer, early Venom... and I guess there is more. When it comes to early black metal, bad production is actually good production, wouldn't change the ones I mentioned. Don't know if Beherit for example wanted the early albums to sound better, but had to settle with what they got. I'm fine with them.
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at the gaytes
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:13 pm 
 

I actually prefer the production of Necrophagist's eponymous demo to the mechanical production of the studio albums.

I also enjoy Born Again's shitty production, which makes the album sound pretty unique, like an anomaly on Black Sabbath's discography

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Xymosys
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:40 pm 
 

Yeah, when it comes to production, I really love that rough and buzzy sounding of an album (to some extent). For example, Soul of a new machine by FF is just as perfect as it can be due to that grindish sounding. Same goes to first Type O Negative album and Shades of God by Paradise Lost. I can add to this numerous albums like Down (Sentenced), Ceremony of Opposites (Samael), The Gallery (Dark Tranquillity), The Silent Enigma (Anathema) and my favourite Tales From The Thousand Lakes by Amorphis.
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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:25 pm 
 

I like it when production sounds gritty and raw, or organic and having that spontaneous live feel. But there is a difference between raw, gritty production and BAD production, and the defining characteristic is simply how it is mixed.

If things are badly out of balance, it can ruin the sound of the album. I have heard recordings where one instrument- typically the drums- is too loud and drowns out everything else. Or the guitars are too low and are buried in the mix, or the bass isn't loud enough- And Justice for All being an example of the latter. Or sometimes, if the sound of the instruments is annoyingly bad- like the guitar tone is too "Buzzy" rather than fuzzy, if you will. Or the drums sound like trash cans (We can all name albums with this flaw.) This, to me, is bad production.

But if it is raw and abrasive- as long as a band achieves this sound (and it is sometimes a fine line) without one instrument sounding like crap or being too loud or quiet- I almost prefer that to some of the over-polished stuff bands do.

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MikeyC
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:03 pm 
 

Krisiun's Ageless Venomous has the most wooden production of anything I've heard and I still think it's one of their best albums.
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Thumbman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:24 pm 
 

There's lot of early extreme metal that fits the bill. Otherwise, my mind immediately goes to the first Verdunkeln album. It being so raw 100% worked with the sound and a more polished production would have robbed it of its grit. I'll also say the first Ruins of Beverast. If you look at their newer releases there's a world of difference in the production, but the thin and raw production worked with what the album was - an exploration of the darker side of the human psyche.

I don't believe that these were "intentionally" bad production jobs, just bands working with the resources they had available to them near the start of their career.
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Goatfangs
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:29 pm 
 

Thergothon's Streams From The Heavens didn't catch my ear right away because of the strange production. However, as I came to realize it as the masterpiece that it was, the production quality actually aids in generating a mysterious Lovecraftian atmosphere.

Profetus' Saturnine demo is similar. The production is rawer compared to their albums, but it gives the music a sort of obscure horror/mystery soundtrack kind of sound. It's hard to put that precisely in words. At times it sounds like it was pulled off of an old VHS.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:11 pm 
 

The truest answer to this question is Cruelty and the Beast by Cradle of Filth. Technically speaking, it sounds fucking AWFUL. Zero low end; super thin, quiet guitars; nonexistent bass unless it's playing by itself; drums that are both too loud and somehow sound like a malfunction typewriter; lead vocals that drown out everything else; backing vocals that are buried beneath everything most of the time, among other problems with the production. And yet, the album sounds absolutely perfect the way that it does. Trying to imagine Cruelty with a beefier, more balanced production sound would be like imagining ...And Justice for All with the production sound of Master of Puppets. Hopefully this remix that's coming out later in the year will still remain faithful to the sound of the original without straying too far.
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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:50 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
The truest answer to this question is Cruelty and the Beast by Cradle of Filth. Technically speaking, it sounds fucking AWFUL. Zero low end; super thin, quiet guitars; nonexistent bass unless it's playing by itself; drums that are both too loud and somehow sound like a malfunction typewriter; lead vocals that drown out everything else; backing vocals that are buried beneath everything most of the time, among other problems with the production. And yet, the album sounds absolutely perfect the way that it does. Trying to imagine Cruelty with a beefier, more balanced production sound would be like imagining ...And Justice for All with the production sound of Master of Puppets. Hopefully this remix that's coming out later in the year will still remain faithful to the sound of the original without straying too far.



I was about to mention that exact album. Personally, I never had any problems with the sound of that album, I struggle to understand how its production is that controversial. But I'm also very eager to hear the remaster. I remember that there was a beefier mix of Thirteen Autumns And A Widow on their Lovecraft & Witch Hearts compilation, and never was fond of it. I think a lot of the atmosphere was lost and I hope the upcoming remaster will be better than that.
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UltraBoris
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:42 am 
 

Power in Black

so shitty

so goooooood
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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:25 pm 
 

UltraBoris wrote:
Power in Black

so shitty

so goooooood


This is Overkill you're talking about, I assume? Found it on YouTube & this is indeed shitty as can be (production wise) if it's what you're referring to. Was it ever released (as bonus tracks or somewhere even?)
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Leader_OCola
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:58 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:39 pm 
 

LordStenhammar wrote:
Let's see, what is there: Nattens Madrigal by Ulver,.


what? that wasn't produced poorly.

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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:45 pm 
 

Leader_OCola wrote:
LordStenhammar wrote:
Let's see, what is there: Nattens Madrigal by Ulver,.


what? that wasn't produced poorly.


And that one (if it's agreed it was produced poorly) was intentional, was it not? Wouldn't count for this discussion, see original post
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:27 pm 
 

Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
Leader_OCola wrote:
LordStenhammar wrote:
Let's see, what is there: Nattens Madrigal by Ulver,.


what? that wasn't produced poorly.


And that one (if it's agreed it was produced poorly) was intentional, was it not? Wouldn't count for this discussion, see original post

Yeah and the remaster sounds better.

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peterott
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:06 pm 
 

Coroner - R.I.P.

So badly produced but it exactly fits 100%.
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:46 pm 
 

What do you think of Immortal's "Blizzard Beasts"? Is intentional bad production or not?
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LordStenhammar
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:46 pm 
 

About that Ulver album, and maybe some others I mentioned too: just didn't read the opening post properly. Was just thinking about albums with bad production in general. Sorry for that.
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UltraBoris
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:03 pm 
 

Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
UltraBoris wrote:
Power in Black

so shitty

so goooooood


This is Overkill you're talking about, I assume? Found it on YouTube & this is indeed shitty as can be (production wise) if it's what you're referring to. Was it ever released (as bonus tracks or somewhere even?)


nope, just as a bootleg (FUCK YOU! AND THE SOME! AND REPEATEDLY!) by some weird dude who didn't believe in album lengths.
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nuklearkrieg
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:07 pm 
 

whoa....UltraBoris....

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UltraBoris
Speed Metal Satan

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:08 pm 
 

nuklearkrieg wrote:
whoa....UltraBoris....

dude.
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nuklearkrieg
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:19 pm 
 

UltraBoris wrote:
nuklearkrieg wrote:
whoa....UltraBoris....

dude.


My only question is.....have you finally seen the light and are ready to give "Epidemic of Violence" the 95-100% it truly deserves!?

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nuklearkrieg
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:25 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Is it The Book of the Heretic?


This was going to be my suggestion. Also Summoning's Minas Morgul.

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:39 pm 
 

nuklearkrieg wrote:
whoa....UltraBoris....


He's on this "bumping ancient threads for the fuck of it" kick, or something. Site administrator seems to be annoyed. I'm staying out of it.

The first Coroner album had a unique sound and feel to it, and yeah, I wouldn't have it any other way. I loved that guitar sound and the guitar work on that album, and their later stuff didn't seem to do it for me as much.

I loved the rawness of the first Cadaver (Inc.) album ("Hallucinating Anxiety.") Totally noisy and ugly sounding but perfect for the twisted, pummeling riffs. A lot of that late 80's death metal was like that- ugly production but perfect for the music. I mean, Carcass's first album was super muddy and messy sounding, but when I first heard it, I was blown away by the bulldozing thundering power of the downtuned grinding noise- I had never heard anything like that before and it really made a huge impression on me.

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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:48 pm 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
What do you think of Immortal's "Blizzard Beasts"? Is intentional bad production or not?


I don't know, what do you think? That's kind of a tough one. I like it fine as is, I know a lot of people don't, and I assume it's intentionally poor/rough production since it's a part of that BM era.

But within their own catalog, they'd already produced much "better" sounding (poorly produced :lol:) albums by this point, so... ?
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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:58 pm 
 

LordStenhammar wrote:
About that Ulver album, and maybe some others I mentioned too: just didn't read the opening post properly. Was just thinking about albums with bad production in general. Sorry for that.

It's all good :headbang:
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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:09 pm 
 

Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
This is Overkill you're talking about, I assume? Found it on YouTube & this is indeed shitty as can be (production wise) if it's what you're referring to. Was it ever released (as bonus tracks or somewhere even?)


UltraBoris wrote:
nope, just as a bootleg (FUCK YOU! AND THE SOME! AND REPEATEDLY!) by some weird dude who didn't believe in album lengths.


Either way, it sounds fuckin' cool. It's nice when bands are able to get this kind of demo material onto their reissues or what-have-you.

The only time I hate it is when they or the record label stick the shittiest live recordings of all time (like they're doing you a favor) at the end of a classic album. At least it's usually at the end though. And that's a separate thread, I guess
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TrooperEd
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:47 pm 
 

I'm a firm believer in all production styles are great as long as they suit the music. Iron Maiden's self-titled is a classic in spite of its bad production because the songs are so good. Vampires of Black Imperial Blood, not so much.

nuklearkrieg wrote:
UltraBoris wrote:
nuklearkrieg wrote:
whoa....UltraBoris....

dude.


My only question is.....have you finally seen the light and are ready to give "Epidemic of Violence" the 95-100% it truly deserves!?



Dude...no. If you want to praise it with over-the-top rhetoric just call it "the Real Vulgar Display of Power."
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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:40 pm 
 

"Vampires of Black Imperial Blood" had one of the sickest reverb guitar tones I have ever heard. But the guitars are fucking out of tune...Arrrgh! That one ALMOST works really well. If more bands had used that echo-y reverb distortion but with a better mix, more attention to detail (i.e. tuning their instruments before recording) and maybe better songwriting, not that Mutiilation are THAT bad mind you- there would potentially be some really killer albums out there.

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VaderCrush
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:14 pm 
 

Venom's Welcome to Hell sounding like it was recorded in a moving pubic transit bus greatly enhances it

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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:21 pm 
 

Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
, or ATG's 'The Red In The Sky Is Ours', or Immolation's 'Failures For Gods'...



Fuck I find those great. I love that sound. Esp on Failures For Gods.

hell a lot of albums stated here I enjoy that sound.

I prefer a raw disgusting sound. It's rare I hate a production.
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I_Crash_and_Burn
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:27 pm 
 

My opinion: Suffocation- breeding the spawn, At the Gates- the red in the sky is ours wouldn't be the masterpieces they are if they had a "better" production.

I also love Malevolent Creation- Stillborn one of the most disliked productions ever, Holy Terror- Terror and Submission, Carcass- Reek of Putrefaction... Way many more. They're at their best and became hystorical because they're exactly as they are.
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orphy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:37 pm 
 

at the gaytes wrote:
I also enjoy Born Again's shitty production, which makes the album sound pretty unique, like an anomaly on Black Sabbath's discography

According to Iommi's "Iron Man" book, the production of that album can be attributed to blown tweeters on the monitors they used to mix the record. They were unaware of this at the time, so there's a lot of high end to compensate for the lack of tweeters they had while mixing. Funny enough, the tweeters on my jam space's PA are totally blown, and this album sounds fucking great on it, haha!
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Osmiumthemetal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:39 pm 
 

The bad production of the early Venom records is a large part of the atmosphere. Songs like Buried Alive wouldn't have the same feel if done with good production.

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