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Osmiumthemetal
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 4:48 pm 
 

Something that I've found a bit peculiar is how little relevance the UK seemed to have in thrash metal contribution in the 80's. There were countless thrash bands in North America, continental Europe, and South America in the 80's, but there were barely any in the UK, and see how many an average old school metalhead could come up with. It's weird too since the UK is arguably had the most impact of any country in the formation and propagation of metal itself and then completely dropped the ball.

This isn't to say that the few thrash bands the UK had were bad. Most played in a hardcore/crust style which appeals to me greatly. The first Onsluaght and Sacrilege records hit fucking hard man, and Concrete Sox is one of the largest unsung greats in all of thrash, if not all of metal.

Does anyone have any theories on why the UK was mostly so hopeless when it came to thrash metal, especially as the NWOBHM movement was just ending? You'd think this would given momentum to tonnes of kids to start making thrash records that could compete with the rest of the world.

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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:07 pm 
 

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:39 pm 
 

My theory (that I just formulated):

The UK created heavy metal and was still stuck in that old school mindset of those bands.

I don't think I really have enjoyed a single UK thrash album except the 2nd Seventh Angel album.
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at the gaytes
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:43 pm 
 

I think UK also lacked on traditional death and black metal

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Required Fields
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:48 pm 
 

I know it's still early in this thread, but why no mention of Sabbat?
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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:18 pm 
 

There's actually a ton of UK thrash bands, but you are right that the vast majority of them had no impact. I'm not sure why, other than the fact that most of them outside of Sabbat played a fairly standard style of thrash.
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metalMT
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Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:07 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:59 pm 
 

Required Fields wrote:
I know it's still early in this thread, but why no mention of Sabbat?


All other UK thrash bands paled in comparison to Sabbat, but that said, so do 99% of all the other thrash bands worldwide.

Acid Reign were / are very good, but I don't think they've had much of an impact despite being the most entertaining band I've ever seen live by far.

I think there were way too many bands from the UK trying to emulate Metallica, and other bands from overseas. Xentrix did a good job, especially on the first and second albums, which I'd much rather listen to than Metallica, but there were way too many sub-par bands (and I honestly don't know what the obsession with Metallica is, utter dross, even their 'good' albums - fuck them). Basically, I think that's what killed it for the majority of UK thrash, there was no identity, just bad copies of various overseas bands for the most part.

As someone else said, the UK has lacked good death & black bands as well, but not to the same extent as the thrash ones. The ones we have, and had, were leaders, not followers, with the likes of Carcass, Bolt Thrower, Napalm Death, etc. and of course, Akercocke. Black metal? God knows, Cradle of Filth I guess (pointless and an embarrassment) and Bal Sagoth (were they even black metal?). I can think of quite a lot of half decent UK death metal bands, but totally at a loss for any worthwhile black metal. I guess there must be some, but I don't pay enough attention to the underground anymore to know.

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Rippingheadache
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:42 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:06 pm 
 

I dunno about Sabbat being the only worthwhile UK thrash band. Energetic Krusher and Deathwish play some very mean stuff if I do say so myself. Really just a matter of exposure, or lack thereof.

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Thexhumed
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:20 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
My theory (that I just formulated):

The UK created heavy metal and was still stuck in that old school mindset of those bands.

I don't think I really have enjoyed a single UK thrash album except the 2nd Seventh Angel album.



How come you don't like Detritus' albums?
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thrashinbatman
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:36 pm 
 

The first Detritus album is solid, if uninspiring Metallica worship. The second album tries to branch out and do something new and mostly fails in that regard.


It's fascinating how so many of the UK thrash bands were primarily occupied with just copying Metallica. Xentrix, Slammer, Detritus, etc. all solid bands that were also not bringing anything new to the table. Sabbat is odd man out in this regard, being pretty much the only UK thrash band deciding to do something unique. I suppose maybe also Seventh Angel with their Demolition-Hammer-as-played-by-a-doom-band vibe, but they, IMO, were pretty uneven in terms of quality.

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Oxenkiller
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:55 pm 
 

Interesting...because the UK was at the vanguard of metal in the late 70s (And earlier) with Sabbath, Deep Purple, and a bit later with Venom, Iron Maiden and the New Wave of British Heavy Metal. Then skip ahead five or ten years and Napalm Death, Bolt Thrower and Carcass were again at the vanguard of truly groundbreaking heavy bands- the birth of grindcore, Earache Records and the late 80s/early 90s extreme underground death metal.

In between you had Onslaught, Sacrilege UK, Sabbat and a few other rather forgettable bands. Aside from the three I just mentioned, none of the rest were particularly memorable. Not saying they weren't GOOD, but... as mentioned in previous posts, there were a lot of bands just trying to imitate Metallica and Anthrax. And while some of them were decent to very good, they just weren't really groundbreaking in the way that, say, Venom and Maiden were in the early 80s (and Carcass, Blot Thrower and Napalm were in the late 80's.) They were just too generic. Even Onslaught's third album tried to go all technical thrash and wasn't as distinctive or interesting as their first two.

There probably were a few really great bands from there which simply didn't get the exposure they should have. I have never heard of Detritus, and while Ive heard OF Deathwish I never sampled their music.

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gasmask_colostomy
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:54 am 
 

I wonder if maybe the UK didn't have the same kind of counter-cultural movements that made thrash such a big force in America. Thinking about a lot of the UK thrash bands, they were mostly more political or jokey (Acid Reign is an amazing joke band btw) and couldn't just "bang their heads against the stage". Even Onslaught had the whole satanic angle and then got serious later.

I'm not actually sure what the specific culture is that led to thrash growing in San Francisco or New York or Germany, but it feels like the UK didn't have that certain thing.

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Daemonlord
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 7:01 pm
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Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:56 am 
 

As has already been eluded to, the thrash scene in the UK was heavily influenced by the burgeoning scenes elsewhere in the world, rather than leading the way as they did with traditional metal. This surely has a huge part in it. At the time, there were simply no band who pushed the extremity to a point of difference as to what was already out there. Perhaps the reason is down to the fact there was such a glut of trad or NWOBHM in the British scene, the finger was slipping from the worldwide pulse of faster, more aggressive music which was sprouting up. What the UK did have in extremity at the time (ie Venom), was always seen as a joke in the UK press, because they didn't sound like trad metal. Considering Venom were a factor in influencing a lot of top thrash bands, it's pretty ironic.

That's not to say there are no great UK thrash bands - some have already been mentioned, such as Onslaught, Sabbat, Xentrix, Acid Reign, Deathwish & Detritus. Throw into that Slammer, Re-Animator, D.A.M., Anihilated, Hydra Vein and stacks more of deeply underground bands, who were all buzzing off 10th generation dubbed tapes coming from thrash from Europe & the US. The main issue stands that most 80s British thrash was influenced by the big 4 of the US, or the big 3 of Germany, rather than managing to carve their own path.

However, once the extremity had become imbued into the UK metal underground, grindcore was birthed on our very shores. Again, thanks to a lot of hardcore bands who were forever pushing the envelope in speed and aggression the US such as Siege & Minor Threat, with the bowel crushing heaviness of Europe (Hellhammer/Sodom/Celtic Frost). I think we also had a good stack of highly influential death metal such as Bolt Thrower, later Carcass & Napalm Death too - all of which came from (and in the case of Napalm, returned to) grinding roots, as well as the doom/death trio of Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride & Anathema.
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Osmiumthemetal
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:57 am 
 

It also seems like most of the UK thrash bands didn't manage to release records until the "too little, too late" time. Lots didn't debut until 1988-1990 when thrash was starting to falling into bloated self-parody and was already on its way out.

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Temple Of Blood
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:02 am 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
How come you don't like Detritus' albums?


They're OK, I just don't love them like I do "Lament for the Weary". I like them a lot more than Acid Reign or Xentrix. I'll probably pick up the reissues of those 2 albums one day.

I tried Sabbat years ago but just not see what the big deal is about this band other than "clever" word play. I remember feeling underwhelmed by their riffs. What are their 3 best songs?
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aloof
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:33 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
There's actually a ton of UK thrash bands, but you are right that the vast majority of them had no impact. I'm not sure why, other than the fact that most of them outside of Sabbat played a fairly standard style of thrash.


that's it, pretty much. I also liked Deathwish and Sacrilege (tho mostly because I like their doom album), but playing thrash was pointless when the country was listening to rick astley and kajagoogoo :/ some bands tried (Xentrix were signed to a major), but still. best thing to happen to uk thrash was gaz jennings quitting AR and starting Cathedral :) \m/
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HamburgerBoy
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:02 pm 
 

A lot of the UK thrash bands tended to have more roots to punk, e.g. Onslaught, Virus, English Dogs, etc. Even for those that shed the overt influence and left hardcore/crossover for "pure" thrash, I think they tended to come from less ambitious origins relative to the big USA and German names, who were more influenced by Scorpions, Maiden, Diamond Head, etc, so I think that handicapped their ability to flourish in a riff-centric metal sub-genre.

But there's still some good stuff. Deathwish was cool, right on the cusp between NWOBHM and thrash, raw but still a bit epic and fantastical. Deliverance, while something of a joke band, managed some neat Bulldozer-esque black/thrash with lots of atmosphere and an all around rare sound. Hydra Vein, while not super remarkable, could write some good riffs. Inner Sanctum did Watchtower worship about as well as anyone from the period. And I'll +1 Seventh Angel. I like Sacrilege quite a bit too, but they more embraced their hardcore roots to make a slightly sludgy doomy kind of thrash.

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kalervon
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:43 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:27 pm 
 

Toranaga were not bad, but definitely not breaking any ground, and somewhat late in the game
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tomcat_ha
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:50 am 
 

id say that the best thrash bands from uk had hardcore roots and the good more extreme stuff afterwards was also rooted in hardcore. The average thrash band from the UK in the 80s was p boring and even the big names are pretty iffy.

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:52 pm 
 

I would definitely agree with this. Sacrilege UK, Onslaught, and the early grindcore stuff was all rooted in hardcore. Sabbat wasn't really, neither was Venom (who were actually one of the pioneers of thrash.) But yeah, a lot of really generic Metallica/Anthrax worship among the majority of 80's UK thrash, which really doesn't stand out- even among the better bands on that list.

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PeteGas
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:34 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 1:03 am 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Thexhumed wrote:
How come you don't like Detritus' albums?


They're OK, I just don't love them like I do "Lament for the Weary". I like them a lot more than Acid Reign or Xentrix. I'll probably pick up the reissues of those 2 albums one day.

I tried Sabbat years ago but just not see what the big deal is about this band other than "clever" word play. I remember feeling underwhelmed by their riffs. What are their 3 best songs?

Do Dark Horses Dream of Nightmares
For Those Who Died
Hosanna in Excelcis

Those would be my picks. Tough to narrow it to 3

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idunnosomename
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:47 pm
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Location: England
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:12 pm 
 

It's worth listening to Acid Reign's (second time I've mentioned them today here, sorry, not a plant honest) frontman H's monthly podcast backlog about stories about UK thrash. Basically it did tank because of Metallica changing tack and the labels losing interest almost overnight.

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balbulus
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 4:29 am 
 

Don't forget Cerebral Fix. A great band, "Tower of Spite" and "Bastards" were excellent albums, and even "Death Erotica" was pretty damn good.
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kalervon
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:54 pm 
 

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=107460
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