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Petrus_Steele
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:19 am
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:03 am 
 

When exactly was the band labeled as Death Metal since the site suggests they were Death Metal at their early days? How many releases have they put out when they were Death Metal?

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 8474
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:08 am 
 

All the demos except the last one.
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Petrus_Steele
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:19 am
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:02 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
All the demos except the last one.


That means the first two demos and the split, before the last demo?

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 8474
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:10 am 
 

Yes, exactly what I wrote means exactly what I wrote.
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KrigareTjovane
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:06 am
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:49 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
Yes, exactly what I wrote means exactly what I wrote.

But is what you wrote exactly what you meant and/or the actual truth? I don't think you were clear enough.
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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:09 am 
 

The style change isn't a hard cut from pure death metal to pure gothic/black metal, so I don't think a 100% clear cut actual truth exists, there were gothic elements earlier than Total Fucking Darkness and Total Fucking Darkness has death metal elements, but it's a pretty strong shift between the split and the last demo that the majority of people consider it the point they changed from one style to the other.
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Petrus_Steele
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:19 am
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:26 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
The style change isn't a hard cut from pure death metal to pure gothic/black metal, so I don't think a 100% clear cut actual truth exists, there were gothic elements earlier than Total Fucking Darkness and Total Fucking Darkness has death metal elements, but it's a pretty strong shift between the split and the last demo that the majority of people consider it the point they changed from one style to the other.


Hmm... I don't mind some Gothic - in fact it's probably even better, but everything that isn't Black Metal is all I wanted to know and I think you've informed me of that already.

So, thanks for the help!

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 8474
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:31 am 
 

Looking at this last post of yours, if your question is aimed at "releases people who don't like Cradle of Filth's albums would like" then all demos would qualify. The last demo, as I said before, shifts more towards their famous style but it's still significantly more badass and less fruity than any of their albums. You always ask questions in the most vague possible way, so it's hard to figure out what it is you actually want to know, but Cradle of Filth being death metal it's pretty much the first two demos and the split, Cradle of Filth being cool and not being metal for Interview with a Vampire fans yet, that's all demos and the split.
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Petrus_Steele
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:19 am
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:19 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
You always ask questions in the most vague possible way, so it's hard to figure out what it is you actually want to know...


I've simply asked specifically if the split is also included with the first two demos; as to whether it's labeled Death Metal, in which you replied with "Yes, exactly what I wrote means exactly what I wrote." How was I supposed to know if the split is exactly what you meant, which goes towards my first question on whether it's also a Death Metal release?

No need to accuse me of asking "vague" questions because you wish to see in such way...

droneriot wrote:
but Cradle of Filth being death metal it's pretty much the first two demos and the split


Thanks, again! That's all I wanted to know :)

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Zephirus
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:37 pm
Posts: 365
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:03 am 
 

they reissued the Demo didn't they

https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/C ... ess/417690

i never really got into the demos. it all came together for me with The Principle of Evil Made Flesh. it was something new and fresh, i was completely sucked in by the music , lyrics and imagery! great band in the early days.
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:40 am 
 

The first two demos are fairly straight death metal, but there are still some gothic elements throughout, mainly through the use of keyboards. The third demo, Total Fucking Darkness, represents a shift away from this more simplistic sound, as it introduces the black metal element of their style that would define their 90s material, but overall it honestly is still a very death metaly feeling record. The Principle of Evil Made Flesh followed as the first full length album a year later, and it really isn't that different from Total Fucking Darkness stylistically. It still is a rougher, less grandiose sounding album, and it kind of represents the end of their primarily death metal-centric releases. It wasn't until Vempire and Dusk and Her Embrace that the signature Cradle of Filth sound came into full focus.
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Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 1824
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:04 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
The first two demos are fairly straight death metal, but there are still some gothic elements throughout, mainly through the use of keyboards. The third demo, Total Fucking Darkness, represents a shift away from this more simplistic sound, as it introduces the black metal element of their style that would define their 90s material, but overall it honestly is still a very death metaly feeling record. The Principle of Evil Made Flesh followed as the first full length album a year later, and it really isn't that different from Total Fucking Darkness stylistically. It still is a rougher, less grandiose sounding album, and it kind of represents the end of their primarily death metal-centric releases. It wasn't until Vempire and Dusk and Her Embrace that the signature Cradle of Filth sound came into full focus.


Yeah, if I had to apply a genre to Principle of Evil Made Flesh it would easily fall under "blackened death metal", that album has a really nice and unique mix of death metal riffs with a darker, more "grim" atmosphere creeping in - it's also a very gritty and dirty sounding album and lacks the more majestic and grandiose characteristics of the more straight-forward black metal sound the band later adopted, which gives it a very unique, kind of creepy atmosphere. The only album I can think of offhand that falls under a similar umbrella is maybe Obtained Enslavement's debut Centuries of Sorrow (who interestingly have a very similar career trajectory to CoF :lol:).
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gasmask_colostomy
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
Posts: 532
Location: Behind the wall of fire
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:40 am 
 

Kind of following on from the last post, I don’t think it’s easy to classify CoF as definitively black metal after Cruelty and the Beast either. There was only a brief period of a few years when they were certainly playing black metal, then the riffing got much more mixed again. Listen to a song like ‘Death Magick for Adepts’ from Midian and there are so many riffing styles in there.

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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1224
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:30 am 
 

If people are interested in the "blackened death" early period, then I hope you have listened to the song "Spattered in Faeces", found on their 2014 re-issue of the PFD demo. It features the brutal style with Dani doing mostly deep growls, but it also has a very gothic keyboard-heavy section further in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o907sXIMbkY

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Unity
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:42 pm
Posts: 1520
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:52 am 
 

IMHO, until CATB they played Symphonic Black Metal, then from the "From The Cradle To Enslave EP" and onwards they changed their style to Extreme Gothic Metal.
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8122
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:59 pm 
 

I view their "extreme gothic metal" period as going from Bitter Suites to Succubi through Thornography. Midian may be much different from Cruelty and the Beast, but there's still enough black metal riffing going on that I think it can be comfortably classified as symphonic black metal. Everything after that through 2006 was, for the most part, when the extreme metal riffs really started to fall by the wayside in favor of the more melodic, obviously-aiming-for-greater-commercial-success fare that had been kinda introduced on Midian through songs like Her Ghost in the Fog. It's no secret too that this period was kind of a dork age for the band, as they stopped playing to their strengths (manic death/thrash influenced symphonic black metal loaded with Iron Maiden-style guitar harmonies and dripping in gothic atmosphere) and really started writing stuff that was uniformly not good. This was also the period where the hatedom against the band was at its peak, as the band were retroactively considered to never have been black metal at all, which is just silly to say. Once Marthus came along as drummer, that's when they started making good stuff again, even if the three albums that followed his initial membership in the band were subject to diminishing returns due to Paul Allender writing in a very formulaic way that was missing much of the magic of their 90s material. Thankfully, Hammer of the Witches bucked that trend, being the most like their classic material and very firmly symphonic black metal again, but with the focus shifted more towards riffing and guitar theatrics as opposed to using the guitars as backdrop for the overall atmosphere of the music, and, big surprise, it was an incredible album. Somehow, Cryptoriana was even better, taking everything Hammer of the Witches did and improving on it, becoming the best album the band has made since that golden period of 1995 to 2000.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

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Ace_Rimmer
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 962
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:37 pm 
 

So far Cryptoriana hasn't grabbed me as much as Hammer, which is my favorite CoF record.


Then again I like Thornography more and more these days.

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Smoking_Gnu
Chicago Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm
Posts: 4536
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:44 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
So far Cryptoriana hasn't grabbed me as much as Hammer, which is my favorite CoF record.

Then again I like Thornography more and more these days.


Thornography's definitely underrated, or at the very least a guilty pleasure. It's really cheesy and awkward, annoyingly catchy at times and certainly represents the apex of cradle's "high school goth" phase during the 2000s...but I dunno, there's just something endearing about it that I can't really shake. Of course, they couldn't have kept going that way and I'm glad they started getting their heads out of their asses with Godspeed (to say nothing about Hammer later down the road).
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8122
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:08 pm 
 

The deal with Thornography with me is that there are a couple songs on there that are legit really fun listens (Dirge Inferno and its fucking awesome orchestral intro track; Tonight in Flames; The Snake-Eyed and the Venomous; Under Huntress Moon), but beyond that, it's easily the least interesting and most uninspired Cradle album ever. The cover of Temptation with the awful female vocals is the overall low point of the band, as it just plain sucks and is totally out of place even on an album like this. At least they don't insist on playing something from it at every single show they do, unlike the title track from Nymphetamine, which is similarly dull and uninteresting.

And yeah, "high school goth" is the best way to describe that early-to-mid 2000s period of the band. They were very clearly aiming for the "fat teen girls in Nightwish shirts that exclusively buy their pants at Hot Topic" demographic on all those albums.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

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