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Pitiless Wanderer
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:34 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:57 pm 
 

He wasn't in a traditional sense, but in other ways he certainly was innovative and I think great. He's explained that in his early years with FF he wanted to create a clean vocal effect that was more akin to moaning than to traditional singing. If you go back in listen to early FF with that in mind, you can see that he succeeds. His voice never had any vibrato to it; it was more like a melodic wail that added some harmony to what was going on in the background with Dino's riffs and the keyboard samples they used. I think it was killer, especially on Demanufacture and Obsolete.

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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:02 pm 
 

I recall seeing a live vid from around 98/99 when he sounded pretty good. The show I saw on the Demanufacture / Genexus tour wasn't too bad either, although there's been suggestions that there was some backing tracks / other assistance to help him in recent times. Other than that though, it's always been pretty rough from what I gather. The 2012 show I saw was painful at times. I have read that there were large parts of his career where he'd never warm up his voice before shows, which obviously hasn't been helpful.
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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:28 pm 
 

The Gregorian chant-esque choir at the end of "Self-Bias Resistor" is brilliant, though I'm not sure how many other background vocalists are involved.

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Pitiless Wanderer
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:57 pm 
 

I think it's just Burton...?

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SculptedCold
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:26 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:04 pm 
 

MorbidEngel wrote:
Both are probably their finest post-Soul of a New Machine works. Obsolete isn't as heavy/fast as Demanufacture though.


Not to be an overt dickhead, but what's heavy/fast got to do with the quality? :p

oh hai, i'm in NJ too! wheee

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Metallic Shock
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:01 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:00 am 
 

Yeah even as a FF fan I gotta admit Burton's never been a good singer live. He has his occasional okay eras/performances (a Digimortal era bootleg from 2001 that's on YT stands out) but it remains astounding to me that a guy who writes such simple vocal melodies still can't stay in key to save his life half the time. I dig him on the studio stuff though, wish he'd get some vocal lessons and start taking his voice more seriously.

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Lord_Jotun
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:02 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:04 pm 
 

I agree he was never the greatest vocalist, but he had a recognizable voice and could at least get close to his studio work on stage. Nowadays he's close to Paul Stanley levels of pain. A crying shame.
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MorbidEngel
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:34 pm 
 

SculptedCold wrote:
MorbidEngel wrote:
Both are probably their finest post-Soul of a New Machine works. Obsolete isn't as heavy/fast as Demanufacture though.


Not to be an overt dickhead, but what's heavy/fast got to do with the quality? :p

oh hai, i'm in NJ too! wheee


Nothing, it's just not quite the same style, I put both of them on equal footing.
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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:33 pm 
 

I guess I have to check out some newer clips of Burton to judge the deterioration of his voice. Could someone kindly post a video? The last time I saw them live was back in 2009 in London when they toured on Mechanize. He sounded great, and the show was killer. And this is a long shot, but if anyone was at that show, do you happen to remember which bands opened for FF?

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matras
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 1100
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:41 pm 
 


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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:18 pm 
 

I just realized how similar Mike Heller and Cameron Fleury look.

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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:29 pm 
 

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
I guess I have to check out some newer clips of Burton to judge the deterioration of his voice. Could someone kindly post a video? The last time I saw them live was back in 2009 in London when they toured on Mechanize. He sounded great, and the show was killer. And this is a long shot, but if anyone was at that show, do you happen to remember which bands opened for FF?

It was early 2010 when they started touring Mechanize. Sylosis and October File were the supports when I saw them in Manchester, so likely the same for London. One of the most intense shows I've been to - the crowd was moving pretty much non stop.
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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:04 pm 
 

Ah that's right - Sylosis. And yes, I guess it was early 2010 rather than late 2009. The London show was killer, too!

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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:07 pm 
 

matras wrote:


Ok so yeah, he sounds awful here. It almost sounds like Body Hammer was the last or one of the last songs played, and his voice was just shot by that point. But maybe I'm wrong - it's hard to tell. By the way, who the fuck is that drumming?

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:15 pm 
 

Pretty sure that's Mike Heller.

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ZiePuppet
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 5:53 pm
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:08 pm 
 

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
matras wrote:


Ok so yeah, he sounds awful here. It almost sounds like Body Hammer was the last or one of the last songs played, and his voice was just shot by that point. But maybe I'm wrong - it's hard to tell. By the way, who the fuck is that drumming?


No hes just not great live

Seen FF twice once on the digimortal tour,his voice was not gud then and the general sound of the whole band was bad overall,4-6 years after i saw them again,burtons vox were at best passable but his general performance/presence and the overall sound of the band was fine and was a pretty fun gig.

Every live vid i seen of FF his voice is awful vocal wise,but im pretty sure a lot comes down to how the effects they add to his voice are applied at any given venue.Listen to any FF album and the vocals have so many layers of effects on them,IMO hes an at best a competent studio singer in general, good lyricist tho.

Either way,hope the recorded album comes to light one day, Genxus was fucking great and a nice throwback to the glory days or obsolete/Demanufacture

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lordcatfish
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:40 pm 
 

Seems the legal issues could be in the past if recent Instagram / Facebook posts are anything to go by. Whether that means it'll be Monolith or something else, we'll see (social media images in spoiler tags)

Spoiler: show
Image
Image
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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:42 am 
 

That's better news in the Fear Factory camp. Looking forward to hearing what they come up with after all this debacle and the coronavirus lockdown.
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:49 am 
 

I'm not even sure this is good news, it's been way too long since their last album I enjoyed and there's always too much drama in the band. The last Fear Factory album I enjoyed was Archetype and Dino wasn't on that one. Everybody seems to praise Mechanize but it sounds too "Meshuggah" for my tastes.

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cultofkraken
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:33 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
I'm not even sure this is good news, it's been way too long since their last album I enjoyed and there's always too much drama in the band. The last Fear Factory album I enjoyed was Archetype and Dino wasn't on that one. Everybody seems to praise Mechanize but it sounds too "Meshuggah" for my tastes.


Everyone also praises the last album with Dino which was Genexus (I was one of them). So yeah definitely looking forward to the new one.
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jimbies
Noose Springsteen

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:49 pm 
 

Yeah, I actually think Archetype is one of their best releases. I still play tons of those songs. (Slave Labour, Cyberwaste, Drones, Archetype, Undercurrent).

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MorbidEngel
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
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Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:24 pm 
 

Archetype has the problem of having a bunch of solid tracks at the start, then once you hit Bite the Hand That Bleeds, the quality noticeably dips, with the exception of Bonescraper. None of it is bad, but the second half is definitely not as good.
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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:34 pm 
 

I'd definitely put "Undercurrent", "Default Judgement" and "Human Shields" on par with most of the stuff from the first half of the album. In fact, I think "Human Shields" is one of their most underrated tracks. "Ascension" is disappointing as far as their atmospheric closers go though (not counting "School" as a regular album track here).

Anyway, the twitter account says to expect announcements in the next few week.
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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:56 pm 
 

I saw that, too^. I guess Dino won the lawsuit but he's in terrible legal debt. Don't quote me on that one, though; I remember reading something like that a week or so ago.

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lordcatfish
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 am 
 

A gofundme has been launched to help with with the new album.

Dino also mentioned on Twitter that he will be recording bass in Tony Campos' absence. Mike Heller will be on drums.
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CoconutBackwards
Bullet Centrist

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:59 am 
 

SculptedCold wrote:
Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
It actually doesn't depend. Demanufacture is the best FF record, hands down and by a large margin.


Nah. Obsolete. Hands down. More varied. More inventive. Less repetitive. A through narrative. Better bonus tracks.



Nah. Demanufacture is better. Hands up. Better choruses. Better vocals. More iconic songs.
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Pitiless Wanderer
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:33 pm 
 

Dino has been blowing up the FB FF page in the past few days. I guess the album is recorded with Burt's vocals and live drums from Mike H, and they used a lot of production guys for the mixing so that is why "they" started the Go Fund Me campaign; they borrowed a lot of $ from CM and couldn't get any more out them. I put "they" in quotes because Dino, in a rather bizarre fashion, wouldn't say if he and Burt were still friends/on speaking terms etc. He's just been evading the question. I highly doubt that the band will tour on this new album, and I'm betting it's the last FF album with Burt. Who knows, though.


Last edited by Pitiless Wanderer on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Metallic Shock
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:26 pm 
 

Burton posted this on his FB page: "Let me be clear - I am not part of, nor am I benefiting, from any GoFundMe campaign" (link here: https://www.facebook.com/BurtonCBell/ph ... 298727321/)

So the drama's definitely not over yet. It seems like a very real possibility that Burton will be out of the band fairly soon if Dino won the rights to the name.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:34 am 
 

It's also a very real possibility that Dino is scamming a lot of people to pay his legal bills. The album is supposed to be finished since 2017.

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lordcatfish
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:54 am 
 

Andy Sneap has apparently confirmed on a recent podcast that he is working on this album again, so there are definitely changes being made.
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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:09 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
It's also a very real possibility that Dino is scamming a lot of people to pay his legal bills. The album is supposed to be finished since 2017.


It's been emphatically stated by Dino that the GFM campaign is NOT being used to pay his legal bills. Whether or not you believe him is up to you.

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Turner
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 pm 
 

Meanwhile the machines win the war because Fear Factory were too busy fighting among themselves to raise awareness

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CoconutBackwards
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:47 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
Meanwhile the machines win the war because Fear Factory were too busy fighting among themselves to raise awareness


You'd think they would've been ready for this.
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aaronmb666
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:31 am 
 

Only other band Ive seen on Gofundme is Amon, well, Eric Hoffman, and it flopped badly(not surpriingly since he's milked Liar in Wait for years). Would be a different story if it was Kickstarter, since not only are there perks, but most of the bands Ive seen have been overfunded.

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Lane
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:54 am
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:18 am 
 

Now Burton and Dino are quarreling... I really don't know how FF would sound without Burt! And I really do not want to know, to tell the truth.

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MorbidEngel
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
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Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:29 pm 
 

I'm really starting to wonder if this band can go a decade without tearing itself apart.

and before you say the 90's, they did boot Andrew Shives after Soul of a New Machine (which he didn't play on) over some form of dispute.
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matras
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:54 pm 
 

I'd be very surprised if Burton will let Dino use his already recorded vocals on this rerecorded version, especially since he's not been involved in any decisions. I predict more lawsuits in the future.

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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:58 am 
 

Burt's vocals are on the new album. 100% verified according to Dino. At this stage, given all they've been through, it's unlikely he would state that fact with so much conviction unless he was 100% certain, even with respect to legal issues.

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Lord_Jotun
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:33 am 
 

Is all this hassle even worth it anymore (both for the band and the fans)?

Yet another dumpster fire. We sure weren't getting enough of those.
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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:48 am 
 

Lord_Jotun wrote:
Is all this hassle even worth it anymore (both for the band and the fans)?

Yet another dumpster fire. We sure weren't getting enough of those.

It's not worth it, the haven't recorded a great album since Obsolete.

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