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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:54 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Lord_Jotun wrote:
Is all this hassle even worth it anymore (both for the band and the fans)?

Yet another dumpster fire. We sure weren't getting enough of those.

It's not worth it, the haven't recorded a great album since Obsolete.


Do you do anything other than have shitty takes? Now I remember why I put you on the foes list. Every post you make is pissing in someone else’s cornflakes.
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:51 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
Lord_Jotun wrote:
Is all this hassle even worth it anymore (both for the band and the fans)?

Yet another dumpster fire. We sure weren't getting enough of those.

It's not worth it, the haven't recorded a great album since Obsolete.


Do you do anything other than have shitty takes? Now I remember why I put you on the foes list. Every post you make is pissing in someone else’s cornflakes.

How is this a hot take? It's a pretty extended opinion that Digimortal was terrible and all the stuff that came after that one ranged from poor to barely good. They are a shadow of what they used to be and all the internal disputes are boring. I'm not saying anything most people don't already think, they should just quit and stop embarrassing themselves.

Why is it okay to shit on bands that are releasing terrible stuff like In Flames but it's a hot take to claim the same about FF?

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Metallic Shock
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:01 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:04 pm 
 

I hear a lot of FF fans saying positive words about Archetype, Mechanize, and Genexus (the last of which has a pretty high score here as well), all of which I consider quality releases. Certainly a lot would disagree and no one is wrong for feeling that way, but it's not like they haven't made any music post-90s that has a sizable fanbase.

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SilverSpring2018
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:43 pm
Posts: 103
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:35 pm 
 

Even if Gravetemplar is comparing In Flames to Fear Factory on the level of "what does the old fanbase generally think," I would guess it's a poor comparison to make. My general impression was that most like Mechanize, The Industrialist, and Genexus. It's nowhere near the degree of departure from old to new as In Flames.

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Pitiless Wanderer
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:34 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:42 pm 
 

Yeah Gravetemplar is right. Obsolete was their last great album. If he or others are arguing that FF's "decline" is analogous to In Flames, then that's pretty stupid. Nowhere near as bad as what happened to In Flames. But yeah, Digimortal sucked huge horse cock. I will say that the 2009/10 album, Mechanize, is close to being a great album but it's a little short.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:56 pm 
 

Mechanize's existence completely destroys the possibility of comparing Fear Factory's late career trajectory with that of In Flames. Mechanize is a legitimately good album, with tons of energy and fun songs. In Flames has made nothing but total garbage for the last decade.
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MorbidEngel
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:39 pm 
 

FF's post-Transgression stuff is good, but not as good as everything up to Obsolete (including Concrete).
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:35 am 
 

I've never compared In Flames and Fear Factory's career, just said this forum has a double standard for shitting on bands that haven't released great stuff in a while. Archetype and Mechanize may not be as bad as the latest In Flames stuff but they are still very far from being as good as Demanufacture. That was my point, since Obsolete back in 1998 they have recorded two OK albums (Archetype and Mechanize) and a bunch of boring stuff that's actually pretty bad (Digimortal, Transgression, The Industrialist, Genexus). So no, all this drama and pettiness from the people involved in the band isn't worth it anymore since it's been more than 20 years since they released their last great album. At least to me, if you want to get emotionally involved in all this drama about the fundraiser that may or may not be a scam (depending on the members of the band you ask) and then listen to another groove metal album with recycled riffs and Meshuggah sounding guitars then that's your choice.

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Lord_Jotun
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:32 am 
 

I liked Mechanize and Genexus, but if all this drama is what we have to trudge across to get an ok album every few years things are bound to go downhill anyway. It was bad enough when Raymond and Christian got shitcanned - now we have a Dino vs Burton scenario as well? Give us a break, guys.
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lordcatfish
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:45 pm 
 

Looks like they're done - Burt has quit

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/burto ... r-respect/

Quote:
"IN MY OWN WORDS

"I consider myself a private person, preferring to keep my personal business to myself and trusted loved ones. I make my public statements with thoughtful intent, never deviating from the truth, in spite of the consistent series of dishonest representations and unfounded accusations from past and present band members; a toxic drama I choose to not be part of.

"The past several years have been profoundly agonizing, with these members bleeding my passion with depraved deceit. As a direct consequence of their greed, these three have dragged me through the unjust, judicial system, resulting in the legal attrition that has financially crippled me. In the end, these three members have taken possession of my principal livelihood. However, they will never take my 30-year legacy as the beating heart of the machine. A legacy that no other member, past or present, can ever claim.

"So, it is after considerable, contemplative soul searching that I have come to the realization that I cannot align myself with someone whom I do not trust, nor respect. Therefore, I am announcing to my fans my departure from FEAR FACTORY, to focus all my energy and attention toward the continuing success for ASCENSION OF THE WATCHERS, and all my future endeavors.

"I am very proud of the ASCENSION OF THE WATCHERS' latest album, 'Apocrypha'. The writing and recording process for 'Apocrypha' has been a truly cathartic and artistic journey of exploration and growth for me. Reigniting my passions for my writing, allowing my music to flourish, enabling my soul to soar, saving me from the real hell that engulfed a significant part of my daily life. Collaborating with talented, kindred spirits has truly created an inspirational environment of support and mutual respect, a spirit I have missed for a very long time.

"I would like to thank all of my fans for their continued support throughout my career. I am very proud of my achievements, but it is time for me to move forward. Now I look to the future with open eyes, open mind and open heart, as my artistic path strives for even greater success in music, writing and my art. It's true, 'the end is always the beginning'. The soul is free from the machine."
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Metallic Shock
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:45 pm 
 

Sad news but not shocking unfortunately. In spite of the aforementioned live struggles that Burton's had over the years, he's a huge part of their sound and I don't really see them being even close to as interesting with only Dino's mechanistic riffing to rely on. Either Monolith is their last album and they call it quits afterwards or they try to replace Burton which I can't imagine going over well, so essentially yeah they don't seem to have much time left as a band unless they pull off a major surprise.

Also, did anyone else see Christian Olde Wolbers referring to one of them as a pedo recently? That was a pretty serious accusation to throw out vaguely in a social media post. He didn't specify whether it was Burton or Dino but it caught me by surprise.

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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:08 pm 
 

Yeah this sucks, but as we've concluded, the band hasn't been great for a long while. I'm still curious about the new album and how Burt sounds, so I'll check it out. I don't really like his other project. Anyway...yeah, it sounds like Dino royally screwed him out of some cash. That sucks!!!

And I didn't see anything about that accusation, but it's been leveled at Dino countless times. Not sure about Burton. Either way, if it's true, it's disgusting. Christian actually needs to shut up, though. He's one of the main reasons that band went to shit.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:12 pm 
 

Dino and Christian are garbage human beings, let 'em have each other.

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TheLastSucker
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:30 am
Posts: 146
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:24 am 
 

The soul of the machine has never recovered from the initial breakup in 2002. Reconfigurations followed, but stability could not hold.

Too bad they could never work out the animosity between them, but apparently they have always been terrible business partners for themselves. Even Burton when one remembers City of Fire.

This pains me somewhat. They have been my favorite band since I discovered metal and Burton's voice has been one of, if not, THE main factor why I adore them.

RIP FF.

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MorbidEngel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:36 am 
 

Yeah, I'd say they're done. Last time Burton bailed, after Digimortal, the band just said "Fuck it" and ended. Dino's got other things to fall back on and I figure the other members do too.

They really should just end it now considering they can't even keep the band together anymore.

In 10 years Dino and Burton will magically make up again and FF will happen again I bet.
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Evoken
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:52 am 
 

Jeez, there's a lot of drama in this band. I guess all we can hope for at this point is Dino gets out this final Fear Factory album and then puts the band to rest. No Burton - no Fear Factory, if you ask me.

What I hope doesn't happen, is that Dino hires a new singer, and has that person re-record all the vocals and then releases the album that way. I'm definitely worried that could happen if Dino wants to continue the band.

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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 2269
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:14 am 
 

Dino has responded:
Quote:
"Our singer for the past 30 years decided to leave the band," Dino said. "He released a statement. [I] found out [about it] via social media."

According to Cazares, Bell's explanation for why he was departing FEAR FACTORY failed to address some of the critical issues that caused a delay in the release of the band's new album.

"I don't really wanna get into what [Burton's statement] says, really, 'cause a lot of it's just a lot of nonsense," Dino said. "What I noticed [is] that he doesn't take responsibility for all the legal actions that went down.

"Most people know that we were in a legal battle for the last three-plus years, trying to sort out this FEAR FACTORY name situation. And him and I were sued separately, in separate courts. The other two ex-members decided to take us to court, which led to me and Burton going bankrupt in separate states — I was in California; he was out there in Pennsylvania. [A few months ago] Burton's [portion of the FEAR FACTORY] trademark ownership became available, so I ended up purchasing it," making Dino the sole owner of the FEAR FACTORY name.

"I don't wanna get into the gory details. I don't wanna have to throw anybody under the bus," he continued. "But if anybody wants to see the truth, they can go and Google the paperwork. Google our names and you'll find it. It's all there. It's all black and white. And you can see what happened and how it all transpired."

Dino went on to say that he hoped Burton would remain in FEAR FACTORY so they could go out and tour in support of the band's new LP, which was originally recorded in 2017 but has since been reworked with additional instrumentation and a new mix.

"For me, I didn't want him to leave the band," Cazares said. "I wanted him to stay in the band, and let's continue, and let's go work. That's how I look at it. We've got a record that's coming out next year. When the touring opens up, let's get out there and work. That's my whole thing: I got the name. Let's go work. What's gonna change? Nothing will change. The only thing that changed is the person who owns [the trademark]. [It was] both of us before [who owned the name]. And years before that [when drummer Raymond Herrera and bassist Christian Olde Wolbers were in FEAR FACTORY], it was all four of us… We finally got [the name back]. Let's get to work. That's just my attitude. Let's make some records that the fans wanna hear — the classic FEAR FACTORY stuff. We've got a great record coming out next year.

"It's too bad that he decided not to stick around, but the door is open for him," Dino said. "So whenever he decides to get past whatever his issues are, I'll be here waiting. But I can't wait too long, 'cause when things start opening up and I've gotta get back out there and work, I've gotta do what every other band does, and they've gotta move on — earn a living. But in the meantime, the door is open for him."


Basically, he bought Burton's share of the trademark - making himself sole owner of the brand, and while "the door is open" for Burton to retun, he implies that if Burton's not "over his issues" by the time things open up, he'll go ahead with a new singer.
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newp
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:08 am 
 

"Let's go work" - FEAR FACTORY ®

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:08 am 
 

Dino has literally no shame, does he?

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BlackSunBlood
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:31 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:45 am 
 

Dino was on Robb Flynn's podcast. Enjoyable listen. Made it sound like March 2021 is the current aim for the new album with Burton's vocals still included. He repeated those sentiments that if Burton isn't back he'll need to make a living regardless.

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Kalaratri
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:22 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:52 pm 
 

Apparently Tony Campos is back in the band now, and they have a new vocalist but haven't revealed who it is yet.

https://metalinjection.net/news/fear-factory-teasing-new-vocalist-rejoined-by-bassist-tony-campos

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overkill1978
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 238
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:22 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
Apparently Tony Campos is back in the band now, and they have a new vocalist but haven't revealed who it is yet.

https://metalinjection.net/news/fear-factory-teasing-new-vocalist-rejoined-by-bassist-tony-campos


While Burton's vocals are etched into my 30+ year metal journey... maybe a new vocalist will breathe life into the band... we shall see. I've seen them on every tour they've done except the first album. Demanufacture and on....

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Kalaratri
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:26 pm 
 

I think the real question is after all of the drama, whether anyone cares enough about Fear Factory to support them continuing with a new singer. I'm sure there are diehard fans that won't care, but I don't know that they have the same profile nowadays to make any new material a big success.

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MorbidEngel
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:37 pm 
 

I don't see them going far without Burton at this point. It doesn't help that the band's peak in popularity has long past (1998-2001).

Doesn't help that given how willing Burton was to have a prolonged lawsuit against Wolbers and Herrera, he'll probably try one against Dino too.
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overkill1978
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:11 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:54 pm 
 

MorbidEngel wrote:
I don't see them going far without Burton at this point. It doesn't help that the band's peak in popularity has long past (1998-2001).


Popularity or not, I would argue that Archetype and Genexus were amazing albums (admittedly I like this band a lot). Transgression was a stinker for sure. But.... if you like FF at all and haven't heard the other 2 albums, you may want to check them out.

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MorbidEngel
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:57 pm 
 

I've heard everything they've done and their best stuff is everything before Digimortal, along with Concrete.
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overkill1978
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Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:11 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:01 pm 
 

MorbidEngel wrote:
I've heard everything they've done and their best stuff is everything before Digimortal, along with Concrete.


Fair enough.

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EricJ
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:47 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:53 pm 
 

The new singer is probably the guy singing for Static X lol.

I'll check out the album, but like everyone else, I don't see them doing well at all without Burton. The only time I saw them was on the Demanufacture anniversary tour and it wasn't THAT packed, couldn't have been more than 500 people.

Maybe give it 5 years and Burton will really need the money and come back, even though this whole thing sounds like his fault.

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Smalley
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:22 pm 
 

EricJ wrote:
The new singer is probably the guy singing for Static X lol.

I'll check out the album, but like everyone else, I don't see them doing well at all without Burton.
Sure, but it's not like they were always doing that great with Burton (coughTransgressioncough)...
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Turner
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:24 am 
 

With the exception of Digimortal I like pretty much everything this band has released.... but they do probably just need to hang it up.
It's also one of those bands where they set the bar too high with their second album, and everything since has just felt like them reaching for that and never quite getting there. I'll give the new album a listen but I'm guessing it'll be like the last few - a couple of hot tracks, a few stinkers, overarching "oooh it's almost Demanufacture!" vibe haha.

I do have to give Dino mad props for wearing 3/4 length shorts and sneakers every day for the last 30 years, though.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:25 am 
 

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. On one hand Fear Factory was the band that got me to start listening to extreme metal on a regular basis, and Burton was the voice of them. But on the other, then or now Bell himself was never my favorite, and was incidental to Dino and Ray's synchronized pummeling onslaught. I can definitely imagine a new vocalist reinvigorating them, but how likely is it at this point...who knows?

I also would also agree that they've never topped Demanufacture and to a lesser extent Obsolete, but all of them have their moments. Mechanize is the most consistent, possibly due to Hoglan, but Genexus and Archetype have some strong material. Digimortal takes the brunt of the criticism for their weaker era, although I have a soft spot for it due to it and Demanufacture being my introductions to the band, and I find Transgression to be clearly their worst.

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CoconutBackwards
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:38 am 
 

Turner wrote:
I do have to give Dino mad props for wearing 3/4 length shorts and sneakers every day for the last 30 years, though.


Hahaha.

I noticed the same thing.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:46 am 
 

EricJ wrote:
The new singer is probably the guy singing for Static X lol.

I'll check out the album, but like everyone else, I don't see them doing well at all without Burton. The only time I saw them was on the Demanufacture anniversary tour and it wasn't THAT packed, couldn't have been more than 500 people.

Maybe give it 5 years and Burton will really need the money and come back, even though this whole thing sounds like his fault.

It's probably Dino's fault too. If almost everyone who is in one of your main bands leaves under acrimonious circumstances and points the finger at you, and you never go more than a few years without someone suing you for the money you owe them and/or because of something greasy as fuck that you allegedly pulled behind their back, it's probably not just a series of coincidences.

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:39 am 
 

I think it's pretty evident that Dino has played a big role in the dysfunctionality of Fear Factory as a band over the years. It feels like he sees the band more as a solo vehicle for him rather than as a full-fledged partnership between the different members.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:02 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
I think it's pretty evident that Dino has played a big role in the dysfunctionality of Fear Factory as a band over the years. It feels like he sees the band more as a solo vehicle for him rather than as a full-fledged partnership between the different members.

That seems to be how most of the classic lineup has treated it. It's definitely one of those bands where most of the people involved hate each other and don't give a fuck about the band, but have to put up the charade to pay their bills. They're all bitter old music business lifers who have no other way to make a living after decades of being in the biz, are not really making great livings at this point (aside from Ray, who seems to be the one dude who was smart enough to diversify), and all became ruthless cutthroats who will do anything to make a few bucks. Dino is definitely at the epicenter and is the greasiest and sleaziest of the bunch, but Fear Factory as a whole strikes me as a den of snakes.

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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:27 pm 
 

The guy a few posts above stated it best: at this point, do enough people really care enough about FF to reignite life into the band? Their popularity peak was literally 20 years ago. For me, FF was also my gateway into extreme metal. They were the bridge between Metallica (my gateway band) and something like Cannibal Corpse. They were hugely influential in that regard. But like all good things, FF has run its course as time has gone by. New singer or not, I don't see them making any real progress. I'll definitely check out the new album, but I don't expect much.

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:10 pm 
 

Even without getting into all of the changes, from what I understand Fear Factory is still without a label and in a financial hole (hence Dino's attempt at crowdfunding). They'd have to jump through a lot of hoops to even get the album out there since I doubt they're going to attempt to self-release it. I wonder how much more money they're going to have to burn before anything sees the light of day.


Last edited by Kalaratri on Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:21 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
Even without getting into all of the changes, from what I understand Fear Factory is still without a label and in a financial whole (hence Dino's attempt at crowdfunding). They'd have to jump through a lot of hoops to even get the album out there since I doubt they're going to attempt to self-release it. I wonder how much more money they're going to have to burn before anything sees the light of day.

Napalm will probably throw a shitty deal at them, and probably eOne as well. They'll get a deal somewhere, it just won't be a good one because every label knows that Fear Factory doesn't sell all that much these days and is a liability because Dino is really good at getting sued.

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:32 pm 
 

I think whoever ends up signing them is going to be disappointed in the long run, but I guess if you're going to take a chance it might as well be on a band like Fear Factory who at least have some name recognition.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:36 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
I think whoever ends up signing them is going to be disappointed in the long run, but I guess if you're going to take a chance it might as well be on a band like Fear Factory who at least have some name recognition.

If they have a finished album, they will get a new deal somewhere. Without one, they're going to get declined by a lot of labels and get horrible offers from the few who do bite. With a band as drama-prone as Fear Factory, a completed album is basically a security deposit.

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