I need to add something more:

1. none of these security reinforcements are in any way related to the national-defence-force-designed-yet-turned-interventionist-NATO-troops german federal military (bundeswehr). they are regular state or local police forces (kinda like county police in the US maybe), which is due to the specific structure of the german security apparatus. I'm damn sure the jewish communities in germany don't want to see any german soldiers patroling around their synagogues.
2. I'm sure this so-called security (or rather lack thereof) for the jewish community, their institutions and sites in germany tells us more about the spectrum of german institutional antisemitism (lip-services <---> open, malicious hostility) than about actual security threats posed toward them by individuals in germany. the alarm level was actionistically raised by (state-level, due to the federalist structure of the regular german police force) authorities in the wake of the attack on the halle synagogue referenced in the link you posted. I'm fairly sure that it has meanwhile been lowered again after initial jolted media attention decreased, except maybe in berlin and less than a handul of other major cities and single institutions of extraordinary prestige and exposedness. nearly all jewish communities that want to address their members' perception of increased insecurity need to hire (and pay themselves for) private-sector security companies. I guess the best most of them can hope for is aware and good-willed individual local police commanders ordering their local forces to include jewish sites more in their daily routine.

Come on, who designed the Metal Archives logo?

Former moderator of the burzum.com forum and big fan of Graveland as well. Israeli Jew. And absolutely nothing wrong with him, very smart, eloquent and generally great guy and great reviewer, he just liked the music because he liked the music. Varg sent him a personal thank you note for his work on the forum by the way, which is far weirder than an Israeli Jew running his forum. Same story with Rainer who ran burzum.com, a not very light-skinned guy from India.

Lots of people like the music because they like the music, it may be deeply offensive to you, but to many people around the world it isn't, because, believe it or not, other people are not you. They have their own opinions, own views and own priorities.

The first time I ever heard of Grand Belial's Key was reading a review way back when in Metal Maniacs zine (by I think one of the editors) where he basically said exactly this (him being Jewish).

I think this must be taken from it. "...The best black metal album ever made in America."-Craig Zahler/METAL MANIACS.
https://shop-hellsheadbangers.com/grand ... rakkar.asp

I don't know, just because one jewish guy you know listens to NSBM that doesn't really mean anything. There's also a strong NSBM comunity in Colombia and it doesn't make any fucking sense. I wouldn't say anything on the topic without hard facts or at least some kind of statistic.

National socialism can be applied to any country/society, it isn't limited to Germans or even white people. The are even RAC bands in Malaysia.

Then don't. You may tell yourself that all of humanity is up in arms with you fighting the good fight, but the hard fact is that you are part of fringe group and the statistic is that 90% of humanity simply does not give a shit about anything.

More to the point, you personally may feel dreadfully threatened by a bunch of dweebs playing melodeath as if it's the Wehrmacht marching again to set the world on fire, but for the vast majority of people it's just a bunch of dweebs playing melodeath.

I don't know why people are acting like droneriot's statements are so controversial. Go to a "sketchy" show sometime and you'll often see people of all colors and creeds having a good time. You also may see weirdo right wingers trying to flex their sketchy cred by wearing Goatmoon shirts or whatever because for them, it's a safe space. But for the most part the crowd is there because they enjoy the music. In real life, people just aren't as rabidly divided about political ideology as they are online.

Believe it or not, there are people out there who enjoy fucked up types of art and don't let themselves get hung up on the politics of the artist. Art does not equal politics and consumption of art doesn't equal endorsement of the subject matter of said art. Anecdotally, several of my real life black metal enthusiast friends are non-white and they share this perspective. I have to laugh when I see people online insisting that black people/Jewish people/etc. simply don't listen to NSBM (or neofolk or whatever else), because for some reason they're obligated to think that stuff is bad. In my opinion GBK and Arghoslent are objectively great bands and I don't think you should be deprived of excellent music based on the color of your skin!

And don't forget, Paul Ryan's favorite band is Rage Against the Machine...

I wasn’t here when the MA logo was designed so I’m unaware. While that’s an interesting factoid, I still don’t see how that one example means that the same number of Jewish BM fans listen to NSBM as white BM fans - which is what I replied about.

As was mentioned, there is obviously some crossover - just like South American fans or even the Mexican NSBM scene in Southern California, however we all know those scenes are quite small and certainly not the same size as the white power scene.

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. I’m saying it’s a lot smaller than you are representing it as.

You can't follow an "In my opinion" with "so and bands are objectively great bands." That's the very definition of subjectivity. Also, the argument is that there are bands out there who are subjectively just as good, or far better, but don't express disgusting views through their music. They don't have deprive themselves of anything.

I had a feeling that sentence would be bait for the pedants.

We're 30+ years removed from the PMRC and people are still having puritanical moral panics about heavy metal music. I completely understand people who find this stuff distasteful and refuse to support it, but it's equally possible that people enjoy the music.

Well, if you don't want people correcting you for language you KNOW is wrong, use the proper language. *shrug* There's nothing puritanical about finding white supremacy and hardcore racisim disgusting, man. Sex, drugs, Satan, gore /= same level as advocating for white supremacy and Jewish eradication. Sure, you can enjoy the music all you want, but you're still supporting an act that finds your existence "distasteful".

I absolutely hate that so many people seem to be accepting of neo-Nazi and National Socialist bands in the metal scene.

The metal scene needs to take a stand against these bands, not support them. Unity is needed in the metal scene, not segregation.

As for the House of Atreus thing, I remember hearing a bit of their first album, and there was nothing sketchy on that one lyrically. But the second one did have one or two somewhat sketchy tracks, and it is kind of unfortunate that they are not in the "non-racist alternative to Arghoslent" camp anymore, given one or two more recent revelations.

I wish more bands in the black metal scene and fans of the scene would take a stand against the racist/National Socialist bands in the scene.

I also find it strange that almost all of the racism is in black metal. It's not like Christian metal, where you have Christian doom metal, Christian death metal, Christian power metal, etc. 99% of the racist/National Socialist bands in metal play black metal. (Yes, I'm aware, two of the most recognized white supremacist metal acts, Bound for Glory (who went from punk to metal; I find it funny how they are a white supremacist band who made this shift, and the most famous band to go from punk to metal, Suicidal Tendencies, were a multi-ethnic band) and Arghoslent (considered melodic death metal), are not black metal.)

honestly, fuck this dumb nazi band. They're not good, for what little acclaim they get for their 'fuckin tasty riffs' they're fucking overrated. Shitty dumb stupid band and listening to them is as cringe as watching The Cosby Show in 2020.

Right wingers, especially the extreme ones like nazis, can't make art without appropriating other art. That's why they always invade genres after they've been established. There's so much NSBM because that was the genre they happened to pick (the fact that one of the most influential and famous pioneers in it was a racist asshole certainly helped) because it was amenable to their goals. Firstly, BM could easily be produced by one person and its fans were fine with simplistic songwriting and garbage production. Secondly, the anti-christianity themes could easily be warped to anti-semitism, and the emphasis on edgy hatred in the scene allowed them to hide under "we're just being edgy and dark you PC loser" when criticized. Death metal was too fantastical, too focused on fictional stories inspired by slasher films. Cannibal Corpse was hideous and grotesque, but in an almost impersonal way--little hatred, just lurid narratives about hideous violence. BM was always about being an edgy dipshit that hates everything. DM bands just wanted to make badass metal (also it, you know, required talent), BM fans cared about the message more than the damn music itself at times.

You have a genre defined very heavily by rough DIY production, hatred, anti-christian sentiment and whose pioneers included a guy who was literally already a nazi and whose fanbase was a bunch of alienated edgelords (much as the modern alt-right recruits from lonely nerds like gamers and anime fans these days). Really, it was the perfect genre for nazis to infest.

There are no NSBM bands hiding behind the aegis of "being dark and edgy". If you did even the tiniest bit of research you would discover that most of them are- unapologetically- what their music proclaims them to be.

I mean it's because Black Metal is more "serious" really isn't it. Most death metal is just lads in jeans and t shirts, and it's clear they're not really into disfiguring prostitutes. But Black Metal bands paint up and buy pigs' heads from butchers and stuff. You can see how pre-christian paganism lyrics change into really unacceptable blood and soil nationalism very quickly

I don't think Vadara has heard a single death metal album released before 2000.

So fantastical, needs so much talent...



And don't try to bingewolf me randomly claiming I cherry-picked the only band that ever sounded like that, there's literally thousands of ultra straight-forward OSDM bands and you're on the right site to find them if you're in doubt.

I don't even wanna comment on the Varg Vikernes thing as if there's any lack of racist assholes among the formative death metal bands. Would be nice if it were true, but you know how it is with racist dickweeds, they breed.

I think it's less an issue of smearing people as "Nazis" and more an issue of promoting quality music.

Once a good "Nazi" moral panic goes into effect, you start whipping up soccer moms and what have you, betas, etc. sure, but great bands will remain great bands despite cancel culture. I think we need to stop being so quick to politicize everything and just accept good music for what it is. The more you try to ban Arghoslent or Marduk, the more supporters they get. Just stop.

The wrong way to view it is that everything is a huge "Nazi" conspiracy. There isn't a single country in the world where National Socialism is the ruling ideology. I don't see what this massive German threat is, as if Hitler is just going to kick in our door and start throatfucking everyone if we don't start crying and shrieking.

Let the music be what it is. Time to put the shrill conspiracy theorists to bed, and allow those voices that might violate some of our contemporary taboos-- I know, I know, metal should just be all about regurgitating societal norms! -- to be heard.

Strange how you finish the post with "they breed", as "They Breed" is also a title of a song by a death metal band who I cannot listen to because of that song alone (it taints their entire catalog for me).

Yeah that's strange.

You mean plenty great BM that you don't know are "racist scum". Most BM bands are somewhere on the Nazi schale; it's just that most of them are smart enough not to wear their beliefs on their sleeves.

I agree with this part of your post, which is why I support telling nazis in metal to fuck off. Nazis promulgate conspiracy theories about "cancel culture" "cultural marxism" "white genocide" and the like which are dumb and make us look like retards. They also try to reinforce traditional societal norms like stereotypes about race and traditional gender roles within metal. I believe metal is best when it is a space where those norms can be transgressed, along with transgressing the norms of musical conventions. It would be an awful shame if metal started allowing nazis to decide what metal is pure and which is entartete musik. Kick em out, imo! Nazis only ever have one opinion, and it's the same opinion we hear from our obnoxious uncle every year on thanksgiving, so exchanging their shrill voices for the voices of all the different types of people they would have us dispense with will result in a much richer mix of ideas and opinions in metal. It's just logical.

tfw your nazi uncle leaps up on the table and yells, WOLLT IHR DEN TOTALEN KRIEG?!?!?!



You do realize you're totally advocating cancel culture while simultaneously claiming it's a conspiracy theory, right? Like nazis in YouTube comments pages claiming no jews were gassed and then a few replies down they say we need to gas every last one...

Kicking nazis out of a place where they make the poor decision to out themselves doesn't constitute cancel culture, so that covers that. You don't seem to disagree with the rest of my post, though, so by process of elimination you must agree, so I'll call this a victory of logic and reason.

I dunno, if anyone actually deserves to be #cancelled, I'd say it's white supremacists that want people to either be killed or deported over genetics/sexual orientations they don't have any control over. It could be just me, though!

Right, but it's very convenient to divert attention from them by throwing out these buzzwords, and making it seem like the problem is not the rampant racism but the people objecting to it, while pretending to be neutral.

Cancel culture is just a trendy modern term for something that has been a fact of life for all of history, these people cancelling themselves. Just look at extreme conspiracy theorists: For everyone as famous as David Icke for example, you have a thousand who are destitute, who nobody ever heard of, who just rant and rave in their little corner and nobody cares. It's the same with neo-nazis. The far right outrage culture kicks in when somebody famous is called out, but it doesn't change the fact that for each one who got famous for whatever bizarre reason there's a thousand who already removed themselves from society and the public eye by their actions all by themselves.

Some people like to claim that NS metal is popular in the scene because some shit band like GBK became an internet hit for a short while, but on the other side of that argument are thousands of NSBM bands nobody has ever heard of and will never heard of, because interest on the whole in that sort of thing is very low. The thing that is then referred to as "cancel culture" is simply treating GBK the same way the vast majority of the NSBM scene is treated, with complete disinterest.

Raise your hand if you've ever, personally, been "canceled." I'm interested to see if the experience for others has been as dire as all that.

One fun thing I remember from a while ago is that some hardline leftist trying to "cancel" Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood but wound up defending white supremacists (the Manson family). https://twitter.com/stillvreni/status/1 ... 8294451200

So is that more or less fun than all the times nazis have proclaimed their racial preeminence while looking like one of the Sewer Mutants from Futurama?

About equal to be honest.

Just checking to be sure we're on the same page.

#Arghoslentisoverparty!

Over what? I'm pretty sure Gelal would be relieved to know that this forum hates his music. I'm sure you'll be glad to know that a new INFANTRY album is coming this year as well.

Maybe, but we don't know because Gelal doesn't post here. Since we are imaging what's in other peoples' heads though, he probably doesn't care for you getting offended on his behalf.

Right now I'm trying to imagine what was in your head when you praised an NS band like Bekhira, ha ha. Or does a band that does a split with Desolation Triumphalis (ex Kristallnacht) and has a song called "Gas the Christ" somehow get a pass? Not to mention the demo rerelease on Darker Than Black.

edit: responded to baiting, my bad

Don't bring up this unrelated business here. If you want to discuss or critique someone's review, you know what the appropriate place is. This is about Arghoslent.

Mellifleur, you don't need to respond to baiting either.

Your comment is 666% correct, dude.

I would imagine that the overwhelming majority of black metal bands who are not considered NSBM or have any known associations with racist/National Socialist organizations do not harbor racist beliefs. I'd say 99.9% of the racist ones are the bands who wear such beliefs on their sleeves (as you put it) and tour with such bands. 99% who don't wear their beliefs on their sleeves more than likely aren't racist in real life.