well you could say their lyrics are from the point of view of a racist slave trader/slavemaster but we know for sure the members are Nazis. If they weren't racists and were just taking an unflinching (albeit foolhardy) view of that era...well they'd still be controversial and canceled but not to the same degree.

yeah, to anyone not familiar with them, the arghoslent guys are absolutely far-end 100% neo-nazi white supremacist pieces of shit, no question about it - there's more than their lyrics behind that

people saying they're as talked about as they are (which is still pretty marginal) because of the nazism are being totally disingenuous imo - there's a gazillion nazi bands that nobody gives a shit about, because most of them suck ass - arghoslent have gained more attention because they've actually made music people liked. you don't personally have to like their brand of death maiden, but denying that fact because of them being racist assholes is just lying to yourself. i'm pretty sure they would be fairly big (by post-2000 death metal standards) if they weren't a bunch of nazis singing about white supremacy



thanks for this - good stuff, and a lot closer to the arghoslent sound than some of the other names mentioned

Ok good I'm glad to know this cuz I just see people making really backwards ass arguments just to let me know they don't support a racist band, like number one I don't give a fuck what you support and number two, dude relax I don't need it proved to me you're a great person in a anonymous online forum, stop being desperate.

So good to know cuz just the way some of these anti racist people come across makes me even more interested to check it out and I doubt thats something that only I feel it's just like dudes stop making every single leap in history to say why everything is something I need to feel bad about for doing, it's clear you just cave into others expectations before you decide how you feel about something, that's on you not me y'know

This is exactly how I became a fan of Arghoslent and GBK. I remember reading all this stuff slamming these guys, and just thinking that with how pissed off people get about these bands still existing that I had to hear it for myself.

I heard the band and I thought they were better than I expected so I'm not sure if I would listen again having the lyrics kinda explained to me back there

I just find these people stupid more than anything, but idk how sure I am to listen to them again, it's kinda like stupidity mixed with ok stuff that's not as creative enough to ignore stupidity equals well why put energy into it y'know

That's exactly why I'll never stop listening to Burzum, he's just too good and I just don't really care how much of a scumbag he is, doesn't bother me one bit

I think I have the same expectations out of bands with shit people that I have with bands that don't have shit people: if you suck at music I don't bother if you're mediocre I don't bother.

You just wrote three posts in a anonymous online forum to justify yourself listening to white supremacist bands.

I understand what you're saying, but come on lets face it. I have NEVER heard of Bogside Sniper Squadron, and the fact that nobody else has mentioned them in this thread just proves to me that several obscure bands taking some direct inspiration doesn't equate to being "influential" in a broader sense, which is what I'm trying to imply

The most obnoxious part about this band isn't their problematic lyrics or the shitty people involved. It's the fact that people (including me) don't want to listen to overtly racist music and the band just has a bunch of fanboys who jump to their defense pretending that they're the greatest thing to happen to heavy metal and that not listening to them is doing ourselves a disservice. If nobody talked about this band, they'd just be another faceless racist band lost in the static.

I'm not justifying anything I don't feel like listening to music is something I have to justify to anybody anyway, you do realize you're allowed to talk about something controversial and say something besides "this is bad" right?

And yeah part of the reason I said I like burzum and feel absolutely no shame listening to it is sorta to piss people off, so I'm not the most genuine arguer on here, but I tend to piss people off anyway with how I think anyway so it's really not as cultivated as id like to tell you

I thought the lyrics to that song were just very stupid and like overly attacking and since I fancy myself a rebellious young man, how could I support a band like that when the metal genre to me is inherently against the system that would've put people like that on a boat in the first place? Id be a hypocrite to the max.

I just have different reason why I don't like that stuff than you do and I think the second you see anyone say anything besides "oh this is bad I've been crying all day about it, I just really can't deal with this" etc. You just immediately toss them to the other side and say oh they're 100 percent opposite me.

And you can accuse me of supporting it I don't really care what you think of me, I feel no need to attack you really.

I think you're still mad I was shitting on slaughter of the soul tbh lol I thought that shit was hilarious

Idk I'm always in the middle of these things, I guess I'm just too stubborn to let someone else prevent me from hearing this stuff I wanna decide if I like it or don't.

And also you're by far probably the most reasonable person in every single one of these debates, but I wouldn't sit around and pretend people don't just go ballistic saying they don't like this band and frantically give you a billion reasons why and then turn around and claim they had well intentioned discussion the entire time I don't think that's true, I think it's true of you but usually in shit like this anyway I'm prone to see what you think more than anyone around here.

Maybe we both just have the victim complex but just the opposite perspective or I don't even know but I definitely see the person who doesn't like it starting shit more often than not

And I think what also gets lost at least in regards to me is I don't even really give a shit that people wanna come and act like assholes, I literally just love arguing when I see something I don't agree with I don't really have much stake I just love these conversations because they're not designed to ever be resolved so I'm just gonna keep arguing

Well the issue is when someone says "fuck these racists, I don't want to listen to this" the pushback is "well, you have to be OK with racist bands and racism because of (insert endless list of whataboutisms and justifications)."

It's amazing how all these debates go on and on in circles... I've participated plenty of times but nothing ever changes. Ultimately with these bands you'll never really be free of the controversy or the people judging you for listening. How it goes...

Idk man, it seems to me the opposite in this thread.... even people that like them admit that they're not exactly the new wonder bread. I wonder if you may have had different experiences elsewhere

You have an overinflated sense of your own importance.

It’s not “cope” to say “If you like this sound but don’t want to support fascists/racists, here are some other bands to try instead.”

Ok, you have an underdeveloped sense of sarcasm,

You're not a free thinker, or even any kind of thinker at all. You couldn't figure out what was racist about Arghoslent's lyrics until it was directly spelled out for you, and now you're still trying to wrap your head around the position that arghoslent's racism is bad, but somehow it's also bad to think arghoslent's racism is bad. You're completely incoherent

Lol way to take me down a peg, too bad you just completely don't even understand what I'm even fucking talking about dude.

Youre being extremely disingenuous way more more than I could ever be Jesus Christ.

And yeah I'll accept incoherent if you mean the most basic definition of you don't understand a word I said yeah id say that makes me pretty incoherent

The only way you can make sense of someone really enjoying a song like "Flogging the Cargo" while in full possession of their intellectual faculties is by them being one of the man I don't care at all about lyrics crew.

That's pretty much the same as saying you don't really care about the actual thing you're listening to though (or any other thing for that matter).

No, you're just not funny. Or interesting for that matter.

You have an overinflated sense of your own importance.[/quote]

Ok, you have an underdeveloped sense of sarcasm,[/quote]

No, you're just not funny. Or interesting for that matter.[/quote]


Lol if you thought I was funny or interesting then I'd have to start turning over a new leaf, thatd be rock bottom for me

Funny how I'm not really even defending this music, that's what actually hilarious about this just shows how jumpy you guys are about this issue, which is fine whatever, I flat out stated I will not be checking this band out in the future, but whatever I'm used to terrible emotional games from your side so I'm just gonna keep bitching as long as you guys do.

Not sure why there's other people in here sorta echoing what I'm saying but "oh no Thy Shrine he's the only one defending nazis"

I'm not even upset about it, but man you guys are so sensitive, I'm really not trying to come across as mean to people, that's just the way I speak in person, I guess I feel obligated to clear that up a little cuz I've seen people thinking I'm just trying to attack everyone personally, and im not trying to be like that.

I still think you guys are full of shit tho just because of the leaps you have to make to feel better than me, I don't really think I'm better than you Jesus

And one last thing before I just kinda stop the debate: I saw I said that I had a problem with the anti racist people and therefore was more likely to check it out, I see how that looks, but the way I meant is is kinda like when your mom or a teacher or somebody who's an elder tells you not to buy something or listen to something you immediately gravitate towards it cuz it's forbidden, so I just meant that's the kinda psychological response I have towards that.

And no I'm not covering my own ass and lying about my true motives, I actually got annoyed on some level when I realized the band was blaming the slaves as subhumans, I just hate that line of thinking, it's insulting to me.

So sorry I misspeak sometimes, and truthfully this is about the first time in my life I've ever realized it, so I don't know I'm not backing down from the stupid troll debate, but I never really remember what I say at the time, so I just reread that and yeah it looked bad.

And just to be clear I'm not trying to get people to feel sympathy towards me or something, I truly don't really care about that I just should just communicate better is all

I just got in this thread (very enticing title it is), but my man, one thing is...you really couldn't have passed the first fucking song on the album you referenced as stuff you read the lyrics of and not having a clear picture of what the "cargo" is. It's all laid out.

Like, I'm sorry, read more attentively I suppose? Complete bizarre a take, that one. You'd be more inclined on account of moms and teachers to check out a band blatantly glorifying the transformation of human beings into commodities?

And another point, and this is my own position on the matter - the "separate the art from the artist" is decidedly not "ignore the lyrics, as blatant as they come".
It's completely innocuous to like vapid crap like Arghoslent (yup, Grenadier, Ares Kingdom, the lot if it included on purely musical grounds - sue me), but there's a difference between actively turning off your brain and actually engaging with the integral parts of the thing you're listening to (the "I don't care about lyrics" folk know everything about it). The latter is when people show themselves as inherently uninterested about the whole package; it's "them riffs man", never "the music man", let alone something more comprehensive. It's a reductive way to engage with music.

Ok I'll comment about the lyrics, I initially read them and I could see that you could you could interpret it either way, is that unacceptable, it wasn't until I heard they intentionally made a point to call them animals that I realized oh they're taking it personal

Cuz I could describe the same event as horrific and even the thing about cargo, in my opinion to write effective horror like that you sorta have to get inside the mind of the abuser or slaveowner to look at people like that but I think you could in a song and not be racist, it's just when they start calling them animals that's not relevant it just seems it was thrown in so we know where they stand.

So I'll modify my original perspective but I think you could do it without making an opinion in the song, slayer did that with angel of death y'know.

Uhhh about the thing about moms and shit what I'm saying is when you put stigma on things or tell people they shouldn't listen, they're gonna do it, that's like basic psychology, I think you have a bizarre take on that, like what? You don't see a bunch of kids smoking pot and smoking cigarettes and drinking and doing all sorts of shit only because everyone tells them not to? I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm just not sure how that's lost on you.

I mean I take lyrics into consideration as it lets me know what this piece is about so I'm on your side about this band, I just happen to see it a little differently, I guess I just expected it to be way more upfront and blatant just constantly hearing everyone talk about them, it was a little more subtle which is probably why it's best to inform people so yeah I guess I see your side.

Hey I'll back off cuz I see I wasn't looking at the whole picture, but still ive seen people with your position just not making very good arguments so id argue that reflects worse on you guys than me cuz it draws people away so

You completely lost me here. Lumping Ares Kingdom in with that other shit and calling it vapid crap is just wrong on so many levels. Anybody know a good fuckin lawyer?

It's nice to see arghoslent has been inspiring the exact same debates for 20+ years

The line about the being fettered of their own genome really nullifies any attempt, as desperate as it may be, to having read the lyrics and taken them on board without some serious reading into the text. It's completely blatant.

Contrast this with a song like "27 Days of Darkness" by Phobocosm.



How old are you exactly?


Similar ballpark for me, and it ain't no fun at all. May be that I'm misremembering how that first couple of AK albums sound though. It's really hard to pull that thing off, unless you're Deceased of course.

I'm 23 those examples are just Whats closest to my life at this point In time.

Yeah you got me, I'm still fairly immature as a person still I'm slowly realizing that in life

Not to blow smoke up your ass but man you're about the only one I've seen with this point of view that's actually kinda helped me to see it a little clearer i kinda actually see your side but I did the work kinda on my own so thanks for that.

The only thing is tho I'm not exactly sure I have enough of a built in system that actually cares about this stuff in the real world, I don't know Just all the arguments always struck me as emotional in tone and idk that part of my brain is just not there, so I can't be reasoned like that I guess I'm just all too good at tearing people's opinions apart.

Uhhh I guess thanks for reasoning with me it's really not as difficult as people think lol

It's ok to make an emotional argument though. There are times where it's bad, sure. But there are times where making an emotional appeal is not only ok, but the most effective way to make a point.

Talking about the negative emotional aspects of why racism is bad and the emotional impacts racism and bigotry have on people is a completely legitimate way to help get across why it's a bad thing in general and why it's a bad thing in all art and aspects of society, not just metal.

We like to valorize pure logic and reason when talking about topics and not only is that not possible in reality, but even in hypotheticals and philosophical writings exploring the logical limits of purely rational thinking and arguments, awful things happen. Many people have pointed to awful things like the Holocaust, the famines in Maoist China and the Soviet Union, multiple genocides across the world, chattel slavery, etc. as being influenced by hyper-rational modes of thinking.

The Ben Shapiros and those right wing grifters love to talk about how they're just being reasonable and logical, but they're not. They're more often than not making an argument based on emotions and emotional assumptions, supported by misunderstandings of science / history / philosophy / the law while deflecting and painting their opponents as overly emotional people who therefore, don't deserve to be taken seriously. Nowadays, anyone who just deflects to "if an argument sounds emotional, it's bad and not worth taking seriously" should make you super skeptical.

I just hate how I always have to qualify myself especially on here like I'm not any sort of extremist type guy but I think about real life problems all the time but I don't sit and go this is bad and people really do have a kneejerk reaction to anything besides "this is bad" I just don't really like not thinking about things in depth and idk I've come to times where I've come to very negative conclusions about life and just been full of hate but if I go deeper I always start to see I'm just naturally spiteful like that so I gotta explore the shit way harder to figure it out the way everyone just seems to get it.

Like to me the stuff people say is bad my mind is legitimately so backwards I'm looking to justify it and I do know why it's just not something I wanna talk about but

But the part about qualifying is idk I'm not a white supremacist, I think I'm just alone and miserable all the time so I'm not fully looking at the way it would try to suck me in, cuz when I'm miserable I'm filled with hate so I should just be a little smarter next time my life is broken my spirit is kinda broken these days

Idk I'm saying all that and I don't really feel anything one way or the other so ehhh life's alright.

I guess my point is I wish people wouldn't put morals into discussion I guess I find it limits the actual discussion and at least for me I don't look at people as worse if they have an opinion outside the norm it's when you take that opinion and use it to cause harm that I find bad, i just wish more people would actually listen to what Im really saying instead of thinking I'm justifying anything.

But alas, I'm used to being odd this is just another place where I don't fit in, but at least you guys have good taste most people don't even have that

And plus if that sounds pompous or like I'm trying to victimize myself or something ehhh I don't care, I'm hardly some martyr unlike some of y'all lol

Since the topic of this band's lyrics is brought up so much, especially on here, I wonder if we will even get any lyrics provided for the upcoming album? There still aren't any lyrics available for Kohanic Charmers, and that was released over a year ago.

Yeah, none of the versions I've seen have the lyrics printed. I suspect the only way to get the lyrics for Kohanic Charmers would be by contacting the band.

It seems to me that the lyrics on Kohanic Charmers are intentionally withheld. All the other GBK albums the vocals are easily understood without a lyric sheet. On Kohanic Charmers, Unhold for the most part screams the lyrics, plus they have Anaal Nathrakh level effects on them at times.

Is there any update on the album?

They're just waiting to get copies of it in their P.O. Box, and then it will be available to order. Anytime now, my gut feeling is next week.

Assuming the crowdfunding comes through on their whites only sauna

Arghoslent beating Wintersun in getting the sauna done first would be wild, that's for sure.

Cheers

Actually all you have to do is go in a room full of black people and say Tyler Perry is relatively unhumorous in comparison to someone like amy pohler, and then give a detailed analysis of why.

They actually credit you with the lyrics if you do something like that, weird guys

I don't mean to be insensitive here but Thy Shrine, do you have severe aspergers or autism? I seriously feel that your thought process is not that of a normal 23 year old when it comes to maturity and life experiences.

This thread has really been a train crash. There's always going to be people fine with racist content and that's their prerogative, but this thread is 2004-level bad.