By calling it "extreme" we aren't necessarily subscribing to the idea that it can't get any heavier, it's just a category.

When you have metal that's pretty much just a wall of abrasive sound with barely decipherable notes and rhythms, where do you go from there?

And I didn't say anything about it getting more melodic, just that the most common and popular DM releases in the past decade or so tend to be OG icons making comebacks or newer bands paying tribute to those sounds. And that's just an inherently less extreme sound than the brutal and tech death that was more popular in the 00s.

The whole point of the OSDM revival was that too much focus on speed, technicality, and breakdowns had sterilized the genre. Autopsy's Mental Funeral is still more brutal than anything Necrophagist or Origin have ever pulled off - not because it's faster or more technical or the guitars had the latest most crushing EMG pickups, but because it more effectively conveys a brutal, sickening, suffocating atmosphere.

The way i think of it is that thrash can be both extreme and non-extreme. It is other factors of the music that makes it extreme or not such as the heaviness of the guitars, and the style of vocals.

The whole point of the OSDM revival was that too much focus on speed, technicality, and breakdowns had sterilized the genre. Autopsy's Mental Funeral is still more brutal than anything Necrophagist or Origin have ever pulled off - not because it's faster or more technical or the guitars had the latest most crushing EMG pickups, but because it more effectively conveys a brutal, sickening, suffocating atmosphere.

It seems that speed + vox is what is defining “extreme” here. Are there any slow bands that could compete with say Origin in “extreme ness”?

It seems that speed + vox is what is defining “extreme” here. Are there any slow bands that could compete with say Origin in “extreme ness”?

There's plenty of very extreme but also slow and punishing bands.

One example that comes to mind would be the band Winter and their great album "Into Darkness": super slow, super heavy and punishing, and in some ways not ENTIRELY different from Obituary during their slower moments who are also punishing, though obviously they get faster at times.

Autopsy has plenty of slow riffs, Celtic Frost's 'Monotheist" is crushingly brutal, as is Triptykon and stuff like Disembowlment, super heavy doom like Burning Witch, sludge like Eyehategod etc.

There's tons of super extreme slow heavy doom-death, sludge etc.

There's plenty of very extreme but also slow and punishing bands.

One example that comes to mind would be the band Winter and their great album "Into Darkness": super slow, super heavy and punishing, and in some ways not ENTIRELY different from Obituary during their slower moments who are also punishing, though obviously they get faster at times.

Autopsy has plenty of slow riffs, Celtic Frost's 'Monotheist" is crushingly brutal, as is Triptykon and stuff like Disembowlment, super heavy doom like Burning Witch, sludge like Eyehategod etc.

There's tons of super extreme slow heavy doom-death, sludge etc.

I would say that death/doom, funeral doom and sludge are all extreme genres

Per your prior quote: “I like Autopsy and Mental Funeral a lot but it's DEFINITELY debatable that's it's more brutal or more extreme than Origin.”

Above you state Autopsy is slow and brutal.

My question is, are there slower bands that are more “extreme” than faster bands, e.g Origin?

I'm trying to think of examples, and it might theoretically be conceivable, but a band with arguably the heaviest guitar tone I know of, Celtic Frost on Monotheist and Triptykon, for as crushing and suffocating as they sound slow, sounds even more extreme on the faster tracks like "Progeny", "Ain Elohim", "A Thousand Lies", and "Tree of Suffocating Souls". Arguably because some of those have faster and slower parts, both sound more intense since they're juxtaposed against each other.

It's funny how you are stating this as if it's not a matter of opinion. I like Autopsy and Mental Funeral a lot but it's DEFINITELY debatable that's it's more brutal or more extreme than Origin.

Yeah, "heavy" and "extreme" are very different. A lot of tech death bands are extreme, brutal, fast, violent, etc., but aren't especially heavy, because there's no weight to some of them.

Tomb Mold is one of my favorites of the revivalists. They incorporate bits of various earlier bands, but don't really sound quite like any of them in particular to me. But yeah, there are plenty of others that go in one ear and out the other for me (some of which are more popular here, which mystifies me, but hey, not every band hits everyone the same).

It is it was only once all the beer pizza thrash bands came along that people started saying it's not part of extreme metal when in the 80s it was some of the most extreme and brutal stuff out their

Yeah, but The extreme doom metal subgeneres are those that mix with black and death metal.

Some thrash metal should definitely be considered extreme metal because of the...excessive use of double bass

Loosely, yes, though some funeral doom may barely count. Is there funeral doom with only clean vocals? Even some that has them, like Remembrance, is so atmospheric and relaxing that it's hard to think of it as really extreme.

Yeah, but The extreme doom metal subgeneres are those that mix with black and death metal.

But "Dopethrone" has no black or death metal elements and it's an extreme metal album IMO.

Nah, I don't consider stoner metal to be extreme metal.

I think stoner metal is just a dumb and meaningless term. What is stoner metal? What is the definition of general sound in stoner metal?
For example, both Electric Wizard and Orange Goblin are considered stoner metal and they sound nothing alike, EW is way heavier and way more doomy.