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Pletwa Reborn
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:43 am
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:22 pm 
 

Welcome to the collective thread dedicated to metal subgenre Power Death Metal (a.k.a. PDM or PDG - Power Death and Glory)

Power Death Metal is nothing more than a combination of two popular subgenres: power metal and death metal.
PDM is characterized by instruments and the way of playing typical for power metal (traditional heavy metal with speed metal, often within symphonic context characterized by a faster, lighter, and more uplifting sound) with additionally GROWL (aggressive vocal sound and a rare breakdown in songs) from Death metal.
PDM most often refers to Fantasy, Battles, War, Feast.
It often sounds like Melodic Death Metal but PDM is more specific about how to play and lyrics subject. The best comparison is: what is viking death metal for melodic death metal so... PDM can be very very smaller part of Melodic Death Metal for some people.

The best bands of this genre, 100% Power Death Metal in my opinion:
1. Crimson Shadows
2. Destroy Destroy Destroy
3. Spartan

As part of the promotion of this tiny subgenre, I recommended for you to check videos like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbOSrFmiHi4&t=1003s
and
https://youtu.be/oFmskR--_Eg
and grand YT playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snI-Fiy ... XvPsfQTJd_

Additionally:I realizes how insignificant this Power Deth Metal is in the world of metal. I just want you to know about its existence, and I am doing this theard by request of several people. I don't get any money for any videos and this thread. I do it as a hobby.

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in_the_sign_of_metal
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:17 pm 
 

The music you exemplified is cool, but I fail to see how this is anything different than melo-death. Maybe it's got a little extra bombast (and a lot more keys) than some melo-death acts, but that's it.
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Kalaratri
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Posts: 1899
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:04 pm 
 

Yeah, the majority of bands on those playlists don't belong to any new subgenre called power death metal at all, they're pretty standard melodic death metal, or more specifically the Finnish variety of melodic death metal that has a neoclassical/power metal influence (i.e. Children of Bodom, Norther, Kalmah etc.).

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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:17 pm 
 

Yeah, he's right ^.

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Demon Fang
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:48 pm 
 

Every time I think about that, I think more Satan's Host and Desultor.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:22 pm 
 

That's also Ellis-era TBDM.

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Peyp
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:23 am 
 

Controversial opinion here, but I've always felt that the Finnish style of melodeath deserved its own name for the genre. In the beginning, it had ties to the Gothenburg sound, but over time it feels like it has become more and more separated from melodeath. At the same time, it doesn't encapsulate power metal to me either. I think if I wasn't used to calling it melodic death metal, I would have totally embraced this terminology.
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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:51 am 
 

Peyp wrote:
Controversial opinion here, but I've always felt that the Finnish style of melodeath deserved its own name for the genre. In the beginning, it had ties to the Gothenburg sound, but over time it feels like it has become more and more separated from melodeath. At the same time, it doesn't encapsulate power metal to me either. I think if I wasn't used to calling it melodic death metal, I would have totally embraced this terminology.


Melodeath is a far broader subgenre in terms of sound than people seem to realize, and can include bands as distant from each other as The Black Dahlia Murder, Insomnium and Children of Bodom. That doesn't mean we need to make a separate subgenre for each band based on their specific take on MDM, which always comes down to the blend of influences they draw from. There isn't a unified Finnish sound in any case, since COB and early Kalmah sound very different from Insomnium, Before the Dawn, Wolfheart and Omnium Gatherum who lack the power metal influence and take more influence from genres like doom metal, gothic metal, black metal and progressive metal.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:00 am 
 

Got into this thread thinking "Yeah, no, there is no such thing." Read through the first few posts. Listened to the bands. And, yeah, no there is no such thing. It's just melodic death metal à la Suomi. Like others pointed out, this brand of melodeath has noticeable neoclassical and power metal elements, but I've never actually heard a band that mixes actual death metal (not melodic death metal) with power metal. I don't think that's even possible. The closest would be Children of Bodom, and even that doesn't really count. There's just something deeply incompatible, more specifically when it comes to riffing, between the two genres.

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Pletwa Reborn
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:39 am 
 

Guys... I totally agree that Power Death Metal often sounds like MeloDeath, but as I wrote in the first post: Power Death Metal can be small part of MeloDeath, but more specified what we can find there. Thanks to this we can completely eliminate typical melodeath slow, emotional bands like insomnium, Omnium Gatherum or Euphoreon and simpler, more epic than Children of Bodom. We still don't need to displace the smaller subgenre of metal like Power Death Metal.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:49 am 
 

It's partly because I've listened to so much of it, but I do think subdividing melodic death metal into small pieces could be helpful. There's not a great deal in common between early At the Gates, 90s In Flames, later Carcass, Sacramentum, Intestine Baalism, Sylosis, modern Amorphis, Norther, Disarmonia Mundi, Quo Vadis, Rapture, and Heaven Shall Burn, and yet they all tend to receive the same label. Death and black metal themselves have many subgenres, but ones like melodic death are arguably too great in variety to properly all fit under the same label anymore. For the moment we have to suffice with a multi-subgenre tags and descriptors to adequately describe many bands.

HeavenDuff wrote:
I've never actually heard a band that mixes actual death metal (not melodic death metal) with power metal. I don't think that's even possible. The closest would be Children of Bodom, and even that doesn't really count. There's just something deeply incompatible, more specifically when it comes to riffing, between the two genres.


I think a band like Desultor comes pretty close to it. Nevermore does as well on some songs, like "Born" and "Ambivalent."

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tahu157
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:08 pm 
 

I guess I'm happy enough to still call this stuff melodeath, but I've got a few songs that meet what you're looking for I think.

Starkill - My Cartharsis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZXm2uvCItw

Exmortus - Turn the Tide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLwf35A1dGw

Thousand Leaves - Twilight Symphony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwyb7eEHP6o

Thousand Leaves - Dance of Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpzFk-jf_4w

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in_the_sign_of_metal
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:05 pm 
 

I second the Starkill recommendation. Fires of Life fits the bill of what OP is describing perfectly.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:35 pm 
 

Starkill is actually already in multiple playlists the OP linked to. As is Exmortus, for that matter.

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Inkshooter
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:36 pm 
 

What about symphonic death metal like Hollenthon? That genre takes a fairly healthy amount of influence from euro power metal bands.

For my part my favorite crossover between power metal and more extreme subgenres (in this case black metal) is Stormlord, from Italy:

Spoiler: show
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Pitiless Wanderer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:52 pm 
 

Jesus. Just because bands might have "elements" of power metal in their music does not warrant the establishment of an entirely new and ridiculous genre. We already have enough of those lol.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:02 pm 
 

I think there's kind of a tension of when something is different enough from the parent genre that it needs its own term. Usually it's after debates keep recurring about a particular grouping of bands not fitting. I remember in the 00s it was common for people for post melodic death bands in threads asking about what the best death metal bands were. Even though it also has "death metal" as part of the title, it seems much more generally understood that it is its own thing and I don't see that nearly as much anymore.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:10 am 
 

Pletwa Reborn wrote:
Guys... I totally agree that Power Death Metal often sounds like MeloDeath, but as I wrote in the first post: Power Death Metal can be small part of MeloDeath, but more specified what we can find there. Thanks to this we can completely eliminate typical melodeath slow, emotional bands like insomnium, Omnium Gatherum or Euphoreon and simpler, more epic than Children of Bodom. We still don't need to displace the smaller subgenre of metal like Power Death Metal.


Power death metal is not a genre. It's also not a subgenre. Even if it was, it wouldn't be a useful name for it as it seems to suggest that it's a subgenre of death or power metal, while what you are describing is actually melodic death metal. No one is denying that there are elements of power metal mixed within this genre, but nobody is going to start calling this power death metal.

Pitiless Wanderer wrote:
Jesus. Just because bands might have "elements" of power metal in their music does not warrant the establishment of an entirely new and ridiculous genre. We already have enough of those lol.


This. Especially if you're going to give it a missguiding name.

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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:21 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
nobody is going to start calling this power death metal.

What about DEATH METAL POWER!!! All capitals and 3 exclamation marks. Fuck yeah.

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Pletwa Reborn
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:43 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:51 am 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
nobody is going to start calling this power death metal.

What about DEATH METAL POWER!!! All capitals and 3 exclamation marks. Fuck yeah.


No problem for me, if you have better suggestions, I'll be glad to hear from you.
I still believe that we need own subgenre for this type of metal. The popularity and positive opinion of videos/playlist from first post prove it well.

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interstellar_medium
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:52 pm 
 

Pletwa Reborn wrote:
I realizes how insignificant this Power Deth Metal is in the world of metal. I just want you to know about its existence, and I am doing this theard by request of several people


Maybe what you've got there is more of a scene than a legit genre? Especially if those people you mentioned are members of these bands.

...coincidentally, if anyone knows of a band that sounds like OSDM with power metal vocals (preferably USPM-ish / darker Euro, think Mike Howe, Peavy Wagner, etc), I'd love to hear it.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:04 pm 
 

Pletwa Reborn wrote:
No problem for me, if you have better suggestions, I'll be glad to hear from you.
I still believe that we need own subgenre for this type of metal. The popularity and positive opinion of videos/playlist from first post prove it well.


People enjoying the music doesn't prove that it needs to be it's own genre. Melodic death metal infused with a little bit more power metal influences than say Dark Tranquility or At The Gates doesn't really need to have it's own name. Cannibal Corpse, Death and Morbid Angel all sound very different, we all just call them death metal. Unless there is a significant change in sound, I don't see the need to create new subgenres. You're free to call them however you please though. But I doubt people will pick this up, especially to retroactively rename a branch of melodeath that's been around since the middle of the 90's.

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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:13 pm 
 

Yeah bands like Dispatched and Skymning were just melodic death metal. The clean vocals in a power metal style does not a different sub genre make.

I’d agree that the closest thing to a new genre like this would potentially be Desultor but that album looks to be a one off and so far hasn’t spawned any imitators or continuation of the sound.
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:14 pm 
 

I mean, I could see bands like Exmortus or other fantasy-themed melodeath acts being labeled "power death" due to it, but it would require some hardcore blending of the fundamentals of both sub-genres to make it stick.

One thing, though...
Kalaratri wrote:
Melodeath is a far broader subgenre in terms of sound than people seem to realize, and can include bands as distant from each other as The Black Dahlia Murder, Insomnium and Children of Bodom. That doesn't mean we need to make a separate subgenre for each band based on their specific take on MDM

I feel like acknowledging how diverse the label "melodeath" can really be and then saying the bolded part are a bit counter-intuitive, especially when death metal has its own sub-sub-genres (brutal death, melodeath, tech, prog), and those have their own subdivisions as well (slam, viking, deathgrind, etc.), and we also know that the Gothenburg sound is different from the NYDM sound and they're both different from the Florida sound, let alone the HM2 worship of the Swedeath sound...

...see what I'm getting at?
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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:30 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
I mean, I could see bands like Exmortus or other fantasy-themed melodeath acts being labeled "power death" due to it, but it would require some hardcore blending of the fundamentals of both sub-genres to make it stick.

One thing, though...
Kalaratri wrote:
Melodeath is a far broader subgenre in terms of sound than people seem to realize, and can include bands as distant from each other as The Black Dahlia Murder, Insomnium and Children of Bodom. That doesn't mean we need to make a separate subgenre for each band based on their specific take on MDM

I feel like acknowledging how diverse the label "melodeath" can really be and then saying the bolded part are a bit counter-intuitive, especially when death metal has its own sub-sub-genres (brutal death, melodeath, tech, prog), and those have their own subdivisions as well (slam, viking, deathgrind, etc.), and we also know that the Gothenburg sound is different from the NYDM sound and they're both different from the Florida sound, let alone the HM2 worship of the Swedeath sound...

...see what I'm getting at?


Not really, a better analogy would be the difference in sound between the various scenes that are lumped under the OSDM banner that HeavenDuff alluded to. Obviously the Floridian sound is different from the Swedish sound which is different from the Dutch sound and so on, but we don't place a band that sounds like Morbid Angel is a different subgenre than a band that sounds like Dismember. Same thing with melodeath, while there are clear differences between Kalmah, old In Flames and Amon Amarth, they're not substantial enough that each one needs their own specialized sub-subgenre of melodic death metal.

Also subgenres like viking metal (in the context of death metal) don't exist as it's pointless to create subgenres based on lyrical concepts. When people usually refer to viking metal it's in the context of bands inspired by Hammerheart-Twilight of the Gods era Bathory etc. Amon Amarth is simply melodic death metal with lyrics related to Norse mythology and the viking era, there's nothing that warrants the viking tag there.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:08 pm 
 

Even the site itself sometimes considers bands to be divergent enough from melodeath to merit their own new subgenres though. For example, newer Soilwork and Solution .45 are now considered here to be "melodic groove metal" while other sites still list them as MDM.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:36 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Even the site itself sometimes considers bands to be divergent enough from melodeath to merit their own new subgenres though. For example, newer Soilwork and Solution .45 are now considered here to be "melodic groove metal" while other sites still list them as MDM.


Groove metal is actually something that already exists. Melodic in this context refers to the way it sounds. It's groove metal that focuses on melody. On the other hand, melodic death metal, while it may have started out as a genre that was supposed to be a more melodic form of death metal, is now a thing of it's own. It's an entire genre, like death metal evolved from thrash metal, but is now it's own separate thing. Melodic death metal evolved so much and in a totally different direction than death metal. It has it's own crowd, it's own scene, it's own tropes, it's own distinctive sound and definite elements that have hardly anything to do with death metal. But we still call it melodic death metal, so people often still view it as a subgenre of death metal.

Naming genres and categorizing bands is, as you know, not an exact science. So of course there are bands we can undeniable put under specific names. Like no one would argue that Cannibal Corpse is not a death metal band, or that Darkthrone is not black metal band. But bands who are/were on the verges or who helped shape new genres, like Bathory, for instance, are harder to put under a specific genre. Some say it's thrash metal and proto-black, while others say it's 1st wave black metal.

Than there are genre categorizations that are just plain problematic, like melodic. Because while it is often used to put in front of another genre to help better describe the music, sometimes, like with the case of melodeath, it becomes it's own thing. And even if it evolves, people still call it melodic death metal. I see similar issues with the word "progressive" for instance. It's used both as a descriptive thing and as a genre of it's own. So there is progressive death metal or progressive thrash metal. But there is also progressive metal.

These are just things that, as metalheads, you kind of have to learn to juggle with, but we all draw the line at different places. Now of course, some categorizations are more adequate than others. For instance, calling Amon Amarth "viking metal" is just plain wrong. Viking metal is, like Kalaratri described, music that sounds like 1990 onward Bathory. Amon Amarth is melodic death metal with norse and viking themes. Just like Alestorm isn't "pirate metal". I mean, it's funny to call them that, but they are basically just epic folk metal. Oh! And that's another one I've always had issues with. The way we categorize epic folk metal bands that sound more like melodic death or power metal under the same genre name as black/folk and folk à la early Ulver, Agalloch or Borknagar. I also wish these had different names

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interstellar_medium
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:48 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
epic folk metal


Do we have a thread anywhere that explains what this "epic" thing is supposed to involve in all the various cases? I can't seem to grasp what people mean by it.

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Inkshooter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:17 pm 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
epic folk metal


Do we have a thread anywhere that explains what this "epic" thing is supposed to involve in all the various cases? I can't seem to grasp what people mean by it.


Huge-sounding, echoey production is the lone commonality I've found between the various disparate "epic" subgenres.
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interstellar_medium
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:06 pm 
 

Thanks! That's quite a vague attribute :))

Inkshooter wrote:
echoey production


Funny how I was expecting that from "cavernous" death metal, but apparently whoever came up with that description was thinking of some other typically "cavernous" thing.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:28 pm 
 

Hmm, I don't really associate it with reverb or echo on the production. A 3-minute cavernous death metal song may have an Eventide H8000's worth of reverb on it, but I probably wouldn't call it "epic." I'd have to think longer about it, but I would lean more towards longer songs, grandiose in scope with numerous sections, generally building up to a massive climax. It may depend upon what subgenres you prefer, of course.


Last edited by LithoJazzoSphere on Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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interstellar_medium
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:01 pm 
 

That would make something like Childlike Faith in Childhood's End by VdGG "epic prog"?

In all honesty, in my line of work, "epic" is a well-defined term; basically an ancient kind of literature dealing with tales of heroes and gods. It just feels incredibly weird to see it used to describe music. Especially music as different as Candlemass, Battlelore, Cathubodua, what have ya. And it's not even a "viking/pirate" metal kind of thing; their lyrics don't necessarily fit the lit definition.

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:16 pm 
 

As far as epic heavy metal is concerned, Ride Into Glory wrote a pretty good guide on it. They do mention that there's a certain amount of subjectivity in terms of where different people draw line and what bands they include, but that's true of every genre/subgenre. This is how they define it:

Quote:
What is “Epic Heavy Metal”?

Musically, epic heavy metal lies at the crossroads of classic heavy metal, power metal, and doom metal. Bands that fall under the epic heavy tag usually exhibit elements from all three of those sub-genres, but with a lean towards one of the styles. For example, bands like Atlantean Kodex and Solstice tilt more heavily in the direction of doom metal, while bands like Domine and Battleroar fall closer to the realm of power metal. In addition to being a mix of genres, the song structures of epic heavy metal don’t typically follow standard conventions. The structures are looser and more sprawling in nature and the riffs themselves are typically more deliberate in their pacing.

More than just a blending of styles, the glue that holds epic heavy metal together is atmosphere. As can be deduced from the name, there’s a certain epic emotion to the music that often melds together with triumph, grandeur, or melancholy. There’s an intangible quality about epic heavy metal responsible for separating it from the rest of metal. There’s a mix of factors contributing to that, but a big part of it stems from the lyrical content and vocal delivery. While lyrics don’t strictly define a music genre; swords & sorcery, mythology, and epic battles are as closely tied to epic heavy metal as satanism is to black metal or gore to death metal. These themes work in tandem with a vocal delivery style that usually places emphasis on storytelling in order to evoke that epic feeling from the listener.


You can check out their guide (in four parts) here: https://rideintoglory.com/category/all-posts/guides-and-features/guides-and-primers/epic-metal/

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:19 pm 
 

"Epic" isn't really a genre of anything; it's just a way to describe various music. If it's got long songs or just songs that have this big, serious presence about them, with big guitars or melodies that really resonate, maybe some people would describe them as epic. It's totally subjective and not really a serious way to categorize genres.
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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:27 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
"Epic" isn't really a genre of anything; it's just a way to describe various music. If it's got long songs or just songs that have this big, serious presence about them, with big guitars or melodies that really resonate, maybe some people would describe them as epic. It's totally subjective and not really a serious way to categorize genres.


I do tend to think that there's more to the epic designation than what you've outlined here. It was talked about in the thread about whether Candlemass invented epic doom metal, but there's a distinct difference between what they and bands who followed their lead like Solitude Aeturnus, Scald etc. sound like versus the traditional doom metal of bands like Saint Vitus, Pentagram and the like. A great deal of that is a pronounced influence from classical music, a greater use of winding riffs and scales like Phrygian and Phrygian dominant to create an occult, mystical atmosphere, the theatrical, epic sounding vocals and so on. It's not just a cosmetic difference and there are actual reasons why the tag developed and stuck to those bands.


Last edited by Kalaratri on Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:28 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
"Epic" isn't really a genre of anything; it's just a way to describe various music. If it's got long songs or just songs that have this big, serious presence about them, with big guitars or melodies that really resonate, maybe some people would describe them as epic. It's totally subjective and not really a serious way to categorize genres.

B-B-But how will I tell my friends that I listen to "le epic true metal" if it's not a real genre?!
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:41 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
"Epic" isn't really a genre of anything; it's just a way to describe various music. If it's got long songs or just songs that have this big, serious presence about them, with big guitars or melodies that really resonate, maybe some people would describe them as epic. It's totally subjective and not really a serious way to categorize genres.


I do tend to think that there's more to the epic designation than what you've outlined here. It was talked about in the thread about whether Candlemass invented epic doom metal, but there's a distinct difference between what they and bands who followed their lead like Solitude Aeturnus, Scald etc. sound like versus the traditional doom metal of bands like Saint Vitus, Pentagram and the like. A great deal of that is a pronounced influence from classical music, a greater use of winding riffs and scales like Phrygian and Phrygian dominant to create an occult, mystical atmosphere, the theatrical, epic sounding vocals and so on. It's not just a cosmetic difference and there are actual reasons why the tag developed and stuck to those bands.


I don't really believe there's such a defined genre as epic doom - Scald and Candlemass and such are just doom of a different flavor than St. Vitus and whatnot. They're all doom - it's just that some of them can be described as epic more often. I just don't see the differences you're talking about as enough to make it its own whole new genre. I think Atlantean Kodex are epic as fuck but they're just in the broader heavy or doom genre for me... I just try to keep genres as simple as possible and don't often spend a lot of time really picking em apart. But it seems like you and others have your own opinions so eh I won't tell you to stop.

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B-B-But how will I tell my friends that I listen to "le epic true metal" if it's not a real genre?!


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interstellar_medium
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:44 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
epic heavy metal
Quote:
The structures are looser and more sprawling in nature and the riffs themselves are typically more deliberate in their pacing.


I truly wish there were more people who could actually describe this in less subjective terms. Music theory is a thing. There are people who analyse time signatures and chord progressions of pop hits for wikipedia articles. Metal isn't as simple, granted, and yet. I am totally not sure what, say, "deliberate pacing" might mean to the author.

Kalaratri wrote:
epic doom
scales like Phrygian and Phrygian dominant


That's more like it. These are not vague subjective things.

Not sure Alestorm's "epic" (or the rest of the three pages of bands labelled as belonging to various "epic" subgenres) is the same sort of "epic", though.

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:49 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Kalaratri wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
"Epic" isn't really a genre of anything; it's just a way to describe various music. If it's got long songs or just songs that have this big, serious presence about them, with big guitars or melodies that really resonate, maybe some people would describe them as epic. It's totally subjective and not really a serious way to categorize genres.


I do tend to think that there's more to the epic designation than what you've outlined here. It was talked about in the thread about whether Candlemass invented epic doom metal, but there's a distinct difference between what they and bands who followed their lead like Solitude Aeturnus, Scald etc. sound like versus the traditional doom metal of bands like Saint Vitus, Pentagram and the like. A great deal of that is a pronounced influence from classical music, a greater use of winding riffs and scales like Phrygian and Phrygian dominant to create an occult, mystical atmosphere, the theatrical, epic sounding vocals and so on. It's not just a cosmetic difference and there are actual reasons why the tag developed and stuck to those bands.


I don't really believe there's such a defined genre as epic doom - Scald and Candlemass and such are just doom of a different flavor than St. Vitus and whatnot. They're all doom - it's just that some of them can be described as epic more often. I just don't see the differences you're talking about as enough to make it its own whole new genre. I think Atlantean Kodex are epic as fuck but they're just in the broader heavy or doom genre for me... I just try to keep genres as simple as possible and don't often spend a lot of time really picking em apart. But it seems like you and others have your own opinions so eh I won't tell you to stop.


I don't particularly care that much either way to be honest, but at least where epic doom is concerned I think there is enough of a distinction to justify having a separate subgenre. In the case of the myriad strains of OSDM or the subject of this particular thread I don't feel the same way. In the end it's all subjective anyway, so if the OP wants to assert that power death metal is a thing he can have at it, even if it's unlikely many people will agree with him or that it will become an accepted descriptor for entries on MA.

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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:26 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
As far as epic heavy metal is concerned, Ride Into Glory wrote a pretty good guide on it. They do mention that there's a certain amount of subjectivity in terms of where different people draw line and what bands they include, but that's true of every genre/subgenre. This is how they define it:

You can check out their guide (in four parts) here: https://rideintoglory.com/category/all-posts/guides-and-features/guides-and-primers/epic-metal/

Even though I think the epic tag is mostly misused and unnecessary, this is a good article on epic Heavy Metal for people interested in the unnecessary sub-genre and their overall description of what it is, is pretty good.
Also just Google "epic" for a definition of the word. Basically it was used to describe poems, books and later films that told long stories. But personal interpretations of it seem to be all over the place.
Using "Epic" in a genre tag also complicates and segregates genres too much. Manilla Road were simply a heavy metal band and Candlemass were a doom metal band.

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