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Eradicatedseraphim
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 5:42 am
Posts: 181
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:48 pm 
 

Founding member of Iced Earth and Conspiracy theorist themed band Sons of Liberty was captured in an Image in the Far right siege of the Capitol building.

https://lambgoat.com/news/33742/Iced-Ea ... Y5inCfubiM

He looks very angry and the beard does seem to match pictures of him. What are your thoughts on him exercising his 1st amendment rights?
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Subrick
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 9576
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:08 pm 
 

I don't know if that last line of yours is an attempt at being cute or not, but breaking into the US Capitol to try and overthrow the democratically elected future president on the orders of the current president is not "exercising your 1st Amendment rights". Schaffer is just like the rest of the incels and idiots in the Capitol today: A domestic terrorist. That's all he is now, and that is what he should be remembered as forevermore instead of his past musical achievements.

As for said past achievements, Iced Earth may have made some of my favorite albums of all time, but I cannot in good conscience listen to anything Schaffer has had a hand in making anymore. He does not deserve the attention or airtime going forward.
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Y_owi_E
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:51 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:09 pm 
 

As an outsider, I haven't thought anything about 1st amendment rights in this case. And to be honest I haven't looked into this situation much at all, but from what I've seen it just looks like shit show. I imagine this could be quite embarrassing for a lot of Americans.

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LycanthropeMoon
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 1019
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:10 pm 
 

Well, personally, I think Schaffer is a massive piece of shit that shouldn't be getting anymore support for his band or his music (which has, at this point, become quite stale anyway). The guy's been trafficking in ridiculous conspiracy theories for years now, and now it's escalated to him joining in on an attempted coup. Fuck him and fuck Iced Earth to the fullest extent.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:11 pm 
 

So long as this gets people to stop saying Dystopia was a good album...
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Inkshooter
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 1031
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:22 pm 
 

Can't say this is inconsistent with his personality. I'm very happy never giving Iced Earth a red cent of my money every again.
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Speed Metal Terror
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:14 pm
Posts: 237
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:30 pm 
 

So I guess this means Iced Earth won't be touring anymore.

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Subrick
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:31 pm 
 

Everyone in Iced Earth and Demons and Wizards is complicit in platforming Schaffer and tacitly endorsing his behavior and beliefs if they don't leave the band or stage a mutiny and kick him out. Yes, even Hansi Kursch.
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I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 430
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:34 pm 
 

Shouldn't this be in the the Tavern instead? This thread doesn't fit well in the Metal Discussions.

EDIT: Nevermind, didn't look closely at the discussion.
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LycanthropeMoon
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 1019
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:34 pm 
 

https://metalinjection.net/politics/is- ... l-building

Well, this absolute joke of a man willingly identified himself, so yes, it was him.

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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 674
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:54 pm 
 

LycanthropeMoon wrote:
https://metalinjection.net/politics/is-this-a-photo-of-iced-earths-jon-schaffer-raiding-the-capitol-building

Well, this absolute joke of a man willingly identified himself, so yes, it was him.

Interesting article. So what the hells he doing there if he's not a Democrat or Republican? I'm only a casual observer from the other side of the world and struggle with the complexities of US politics.

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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 2269
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:00 pm 
 

It's officially the 2nd worst offense to America he's ever been a part of:

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Morrigan
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Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:00 pm 
 

Absolute clown.

MetlaNZ wrote:
Interesting article. So what the hells he doing there if he's not a Democrat or Republican? I'm only a casual observer from the other side of the world and struggle with the complexities of US politics.

He's not a centrist that's for sure. He's "not a Republican" only because Republicans aren't far-right enough for him. He claims to be a Libertarian, but it's very common for that to just be a dog whistle for being a proper MAGA fuckwit through and through.

He was wearing an Oath Keepers hat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_Keepers
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lord_ghengis
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Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:03 pm 
 

I laughed til I pee'd a little at the "they're banning doctors on youtube" line.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:04 pm 
 

I'm one million percent certain that Schaffer is one of the way-too-numerous people that thinks Fox News is now a bleeding heart liberal propaganda network, and has migrated to something like OANN or Newsmax that shits out unfiltered fascism on a daily basis.
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I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 674
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:13 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Absolute clown.

MetlaNZ wrote:
Interesting article. So what the hells he doing there if he's not a Democrat or Republican? I'm only a casual observer from the other side of the world and struggle with the complexities of US politics.

He's not a centrist that's for sure. He's "not a Republican" only because Republicans aren't far-right enough for him. He claims to be a Libertarian, but it's very common for that to just be a dog whistle for being a proper MAGA fuckwit through and through.

He was wearing an Oath Keepers hat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_Keepers

Far out, that's fucked up. I didn't realize he was that far into it. I was wondering what it said on his hat. Oath Keepers seem like a cult or a bunch of extremist fanatics. Gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out for him.

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Inkshooter
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:17 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Everyone in Iced Earth and Demons and Wizards is complicit in platforming Schaffer and tacitly endorsing his behavior and beliefs if they don't leave the band or stage a mutiny and kick him out. Yes, even Hansi Kursch.


The guys in Iced Earth won't, they're all likely basically on the same page politically, and it shows in some of their lyrics. As far as Hansi Kirsch goes I know nothing of his politics, but if this blows up in the world of music journalism it's possible he won't want his own name to be in the news.
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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:21 pm 
 

My first instinct when I saw that picture was to laugh my fucking ass off. What an absolutely embarrassing clown. Iced Earth's always sucked, but as a massive Blind Guardian fan, I really, really hope Hansi dumps his ass. There's really no excuse for any musician who isn't also a far-right troll to work with this piece of shit ever again.

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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1264
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:21 pm 
 

boy, am i glad that i've never been that into Iced Earth, because this would be a dealbreaker for me.

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ChildClownOutlet
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:52 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:39 pm 
 

I don't see why this is going to be a deal breaker. Dude's crazy I guess but I'm sure there's band members who did worse shit who get to keep playing. Didn't the guy from As I Lay Dying try to hire someone to kill his wife?
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kluseba
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:36 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:44 pm 
 

That guy's political points of view have always been questionable to me but now he has joined criminals who are willing to spread chaos, fear and violence. Jon Schaeffer gave an interview to German magazine Die Welt during the protests and his remarks truly speak for themselves. I'm glad I have never ever bought any Iced Earth record and certainly won't change anything about that. At this point, this guy's career should be over and there won't be too many people shedding a tear about that. I know I won't.
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thrashinbatman
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1264
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:51 pm 
 

ChildClownOutlet wrote:
I don't see why this is going to be a deal breaker. Dude's crazy I guess but I'm sure there's band members who did worse shit who get to keep playing. Didn't the guy from As I Lay Dying try to hire someone to kill his wife?

yeah, and if i ever listened to As I Lay Dying that would also be a dealbreaker

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frostjunkie
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:59 am
Posts: 146
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:54 pm 
 

true_death wrote:
It's officially the 2nd worst offense to America he's ever been a part of:


Read my mind. I laughed my ass off when that song was released(it's better/worse with the music video).

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LycanthropeMoon
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 1019
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:02 pm 
 

thrashinbatman wrote:
ChildClownOutlet wrote:
I don't see why this is going to be a deal breaker. Dude's crazy I guess but I'm sure there's band members who did worse shit who get to keep playing. Didn't the guy from As I Lay Dying try to hire someone to kill his wife?

yeah, and if i ever listened to As I Lay Dying that would also be a dealbreaker

Cosigned.

No, he's not as bad as that dude from Inquisition, but I dunno... engaging in an attempt at a violent insurrection based entirely on flimsy conspiracy theories is still pretty fucking bad.

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Twisted_Psychology
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:26 pm 
 

His conspiracy shit was cute when he was just another talking head, but taking this kind of action crosses the line. Iced Earth is in the same “dead to me” pile as Pentagram.
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ChildClownOutlet
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Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:52 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:28 pm 
 

LycanthropeMoon wrote:
thrashinbatman wrote:
ChildClownOutlet wrote:
I don't see why this is going to be a deal breaker. Dude's crazy I guess but I'm sure there's band members who did worse shit who get to keep playing. Didn't the guy from As I Lay Dying try to hire someone to kill his wife?

yeah, and if i ever listened to As I Lay Dying that would also be a dealbreaker

Cosigned.

No, he's not as bad as that dude from Inquisition, but I dunno... engaging in an attempt at a violent insurrection based entirely on flimsy conspiracy theories is still pretty fucking bad.


Oh Im not comparing the two, it's just like....this isn't really...that destructive? He's a kooky guy but joining in some shitty protest that went nowhere isn't really something to just say "yeah im done with this artist, I cant listen to him anymore." I'm not really trying to downplay the riot but it wasn't REALLY that destructive, more of a symbolic failure.
This might be me being an IE fan, but Im just like "yeah whatever, what a dumbass."
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Inkshooter
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:29 pm 
 

LycanthropeMoon wrote:
thrashinbatman wrote:
ChildClownOutlet wrote:
I don't see why this is going to be a deal breaker. Dude's crazy I guess but I'm sure there's band members who did worse shit who get to keep playing. Didn't the guy from As I Lay Dying try to hire someone to kill his wife?

yeah, and if i ever listened to As I Lay Dying that would also be a dealbreaker

Cosigned.

No, he's not as bad as that dude from Inquisition, but I dunno... engaging in an attempt at a violent insurrection based entirely on flimsy conspiracy theories is still pretty fucking bad.


Yeah. As a fan of black metal I'm kind of used to some musicians not being good people, and I'm willing to put up with that to an extent, but I draw the line at actively promoting bigotry like Varg does, or violently attempting to enforce bigoted ideologies like Jon did here. These people don't deserve anyone's support, financial or otherwise.
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EldritchSun
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:34 pm 
 

This guy should rot in jail for high treason. Plain and simple.

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AmIKevill
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:11 pm
Posts: 36
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:12 am 
 

I toured with Iced Earth a couple times, it wasn't always the greatest being their opening band in particular. Was a "the band will be nice but their tour manager will ruin your day" situation. Yeah, brotherrrrs!

Anyways- this is both sad and hilarious in a depressing way. The assault on democracy is bad enough, but the sheer ignorance behind it is even worse.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:16 am 
 

ChildClownOutlet wrote:

Oh Im not comparing the two, it's just like....this isn't really...that destructive? He's a kooky guy but joining in some shitty protest that went nowhere isn't really something to just say "yeah im done with this artist, I cant listen to him anymore." I'm not really trying to downplay the riot but it wasn't REALLY that destructive, more of a symbolic failure.
This might be me being an IE fan, but Im just like "yeah whatever, what a dumbass."


Well this wasn't a protest, it was an attempted coup to try and seize power.
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Oxenkiller
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:52 am 
 

I live in Idaho and deal with these kind of jackhole thugs on an almost daily basis. For some reason that kind of ignorance is actually almost trendy here, along with the usual racist ignorant attitudes (e.g. "Black lived DON'T matter, covid/global warming/the Holocaust aren't real" etc.)

So... Basically, fuck that guy, fuck his shitty band, (who I fortunately never liked) and if there is any justice left in the world, he and his accomplices will be tried for treason and rot away in prison like they deserve.

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orphy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Edmonton, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:02 am 
 

What an absolute fuckhead. I loved early Iced Earth as a teen and have been revisiting those albums recently for nostalgia's sake (I even got a used copy of "Days of Purgatory" in the mail just a couple days ago), so seeing this is definitely a stab in my teenage heart. I wasn't planning on giving this loser money any time soon as it is, but now I'll definitely never see them live.
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KrigareTjovane
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:06 am
Posts: 375
Location: The Shadow Mountains 1983 A.D.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:05 am 
 

AmIKevill wrote:
I toured with Iced Earth a couple times, it wasn't always the greatest being their opening band in particular. Was a "the band will be nice but their tour manager will ruin your day" situation. Yeah, brotherrrrs!

Anyways- this is both sad and hilarious in a depressing way. The assault on democracy is bad enough, but the sheer ignorance behind it is even worse.

Haha hell yeah you did, saw you opening for them in Denver back in 2012.

Needless to say I'm throwing out my Iced Earth shirt and the few albums I have... even *sigh* Stormrider. What a clown.

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stickyshooZ
TO HAVE AND TO HOLD

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:29 am
Posts: 1365
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:46 am 
 

I've been a fan for nearly 20 years - he's written music that has changed my life substantially and this shit is extremely disappointing to me. I knew he was a right winger, but hoped he'd get his mind right over time and stop being a dipshit. I've met him several times and he seemed like an okay guy, but this shit is unacceptable. I'm curious as to what Hansi Kursch - who should know a good deal about fascism - would have to say if he knew his friend and band mate was paling around with Nazis and other assorted white supremacists.
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Demon Fang
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:50 am 
 

Jon noooooooo

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 908
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:14 am 
 

This is not that surprising. He's finally walking the walk since he has built all his recent material around conspiracy theories. I'm certain Hansi is appalled and it's different countries so they think about these sorts of things differently. Tim Ripper on the other hand, I can definitely see co-signing this.

this time it's full blown so don't tread on me or whatever those dumbfuck lyrics said....lol
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Bloodstone
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:48 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:54 am 
 

Uuuugh :ugh: Iced Earth was basically my entry point into (relatively) underground metal, I was a massive fan for a few years. Then I kind of fell off with time, but they'll always have a special place in my heart. Seeing this shit is therefore disappointing to say the least, even though I had been aware of the guy's politics. Voicing your shitty opinion is one thing, acting on it in a way like this is quite a different matter. :thumbsdown:
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Zerberus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:05 am 
 

It'll be interesting to see if the remaining members of Iced Earth and Demons & Wizards drop his ass or not.
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NorseDave
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:39 am
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Location: Italy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:14 am 
 

Ok guys, I've been wanting to write something about it for a while (from the Inquisition topic), but I was always hesitating. But now I would like to say a couple of things.
I frankly can't understand this kind of fanaticism in questioning everything that an artist has done in his life because at some point did something not shareable or even execrable. Or rather, I can understand this fanaticism, but I just can't share it. I consider myself a "made and done" person, I have my ideas of social and political life that lead me to vote for certain parties in elections, and I can assure you that so far theat have always been on the left side, like you reading your comments (and, let me say, voting left in Italy is voting a REAL left, not the fake one that would be represented by the Democrats in US). Regardless of my political / social ideas, I really consider the artistic involvement on another level, and I can genuinely enjoy various works whether they are by artists in line with my thinking or not.
As BastardHead correctly said in the Inquisition topic, you can continue listening to Inquisition, as long as you live with the connection with the child pornography facts and, for me, there is no problem about it! I don't feel and I don't want to feel in guilty, embarrassed, dirty, or, worse, summarily judged by someone else for it, if what those artists made on an artistic level is valid and I like it, I don't want to deprive myself of it a priori! This allows me to genuinely appreciate Burzum, Inquisition, Lovecraft, Kevin Spacey, Roman Polanski, Pier Paolo Pasolini (an Italian leftist intellectual, for who doesn't know. A brilliant person in my opinion, but I assure you that his private life is not certainly free of grey areas, indeed!) and so on. Also because this is a risky road: besides those who obviously in private life have committed acts that everyone are aware of, if we put the life of all artists under the magnifying glass who knows who would be saved.
Why this post? Because, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seems to me that there is a certain "moral superiority" in condemning such artists! Let's be clear, you are free to throw all your Inquisition and Iced Earth discographies down the toilet, I don't mind at all, but this doesn't make you superior to anyone. I will continue to love Inquisition (at least as long as they make good albums, of course) and I'll continue to ignore Iced Earth (I never liked them), regardless of what Dagon and Schaffer have done, and there is nothing wrong with that!

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MegaMal
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:07 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:55 am 
 

ChildClownOutlet wrote:
I'm not really trying to downplay the riot but it wasn't REALLY that destructive

4 people have died. Yeah, totally not destructive.

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