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Morn Of Solace
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 am
Posts: 2108
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:50 am 
 

EldritchSun wrote:
Sedition and Pockets wrote:
For real could we like, not blame colonized people for systems of belief and practice forced on them at bayonet point and maintained by genocide?


I'm not blaming them for living through such terrible history, but the sad reality is that, most (if not all) of those countries that went through those regimes and forced cultural changes were affected by them in a sorta permanent basis and the fact that, for example, Greece is big in people following NS ideologies (Golden Dawn everyone?) and that metal has been a sort of haven for such deplorable views it's hardly deniable. Do we need to mention Ukraine in that sense?


Do you even know what are you saying? Greece got heavily fucked up by the economic crisis for years and nazis managed to exploit it and bring out the worst side of the people,as they always do. Golden dawn was a minuscule shit stain of a party before the crisis blew it up, and the election results are do not mirror the amazing people that i've met there

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EldritchSun
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:57 am 
 

Morn Of Solace wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
Sedition and Pockets wrote:
For real could we like, not blame colonized people for systems of belief and practice forced on them at bayonet point and maintained by genocide?


I'm not blaming them for living through such terrible history, but the sad reality is that, most (if not all) of those countries that went through those regimes and forced cultural changes were affected by them in a sorta permanent basis and the fact that, for example, Greece is big in people following NS ideologies (Golden Dawn everyone?) and that metal has been a sort of haven for such deplorable views it's hardly deniable. Do we need to mention Ukraine in that sense?


Do you even know what are you saying? Greece got heavily fucked up by the economic crisis for years and nazis managed to exploit it and bring out the worst side of the people,as they always do. Golden dawn was a minuscule shit stain of a party before the crisis blew it up, and the election results are do not mirror the amazing people that i've met there


Again, I'm not saying every single Greek is a nazi, but there are many. Italy is the same and I do know that country well; in Italy's case they had Mussolini and believe it or not, it's not a demonized figure in Italian History. He has a more or less favorable reputation even to this day, especially among the older folk and the neofascist groups are abundant, especially in the North-Eastern portion of the country.

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ObservationSlave
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 1072
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:00 am 
 

Sedition and Pockets wrote:
For real could we like, not blame colonized people for systems of belief and practice forced on them at bayonet point and maintained by genocide?


If I was ever looking for the prime example of soft bigotry of low expectations, I have found it here. We can't just decide that massive populations as a whole get a pass while others don't. There are a million reasons why any individual person has the beliefs that they do regardless of what country they are from, and Nazis in Brazil don't need woke Americans making excuses for them.

And if we really want to go down a rabbit whole, there is no such thing as free will, so we really can't blame anybody for anything.

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Morn Of Solace
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 am
Posts: 2108
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:05 am 
 

EldritchSun wrote:

Again, I'm not saying every single Greek is a nazi, but there are many. Italy is the same and I do know that country well; in Italy's case they had Mussolini and believe it or not, it's not a demonized figure in Italian History. He has a more or less favorable reputation even to this day, especially among the older folk and the neofascist groups are abundant, especially in the North-Eastern portion of the country.



Goddamn, i'm Italian and i live in Lombardy.
Mussolini is still liked by some people, elders in particular, for the image of "efficency" and "glory days" he built for himself trough decades of highly focused propaganda helped by the general low cultural level of a country that was mostly agricultural, but ask today any Italian if they think that the racial laws and the alliance with Hitler were a right thing and you'll get a resounding NO in 99% of the cases

I'll drop the OT right now, sorry but in cases with bullshit like this i get triggered and i can't stay cool.

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Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 1034
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:11 am 
 

ObservationSlave wrote:
Sedition and Pockets wrote:
For real could we like, not blame colonized people for systems of belief and practice forced on them at bayonet point and maintained by genocide?


If I was ever looking for the prime example of soft bigotry of low expectations, I have found it here. We can't just decide that massive populations as a whole get a pass while others don't. There are a million reasons why any individual person has the beliefs that they do regardless of what country they are from, and Nazis in Brazil don't need woke Americans making excuses for them.

And if we really want to go down a rabbit whole, there is no such thing as free will, so we really can't blame anybody for anything.


Except that no one said that. No one is saying don't blame nazis for being nazis; we're saying don't cast being a nazi as if it were some sort of inherent characteristic of national populations without acknowledging the material conditions that created the context in the first place. To do so while ignoring, for instance, that the United States is jacked ass full of fucking fascists in a thread that is literally about an American musician participating in a fascist coup attempt is sus as hell.

But yeah, the real problem here is obviously the trans communist who calls out the Bolsonaro regime on the reg.
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CrippledLucifer
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 645
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:12 am 
 

Morn Of Solace wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
Sedition and Pockets wrote:
For real could we like, not blame colonized people for systems of belief and practice forced on them at bayonet point and maintained by genocide?


I'm not blaming them for living through such terrible history, but the sad reality is that, most (if not all) of those countries that went through those regimes and forced cultural changes were affected by them in a sorta permanent basis and the fact that, for example, Greece is big in people following NS ideologies (Golden Dawn everyone?) and that metal has been a sort of haven for such deplorable views it's hardly deniable. Do we need to mention Ukraine in that sense?


Do you even know what are you saying? Greece got heavily fucked up by the economic crisis for years and nazis managed to exploit it and bring out the worst side of the people,as they always do. Golden dawn was a minuscule shit stain of a party before the crisis blew it up, and the election results are do not mirror the amazing people that i've met there

Not to mention, the Greek judiciary trialed and convicted the Golden Dawn leadership for running a criminal organisation. Last I heard the US was struggling somewhat to put their own political crimes to trial.
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EldritchSun
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:22 am 
 

Morn Of Solace wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:

Again, I'm not saying every single Greek is a nazi, but there are many. Italy is the same and I do know that country well; in Italy's case they had Mussolini and believe it or not, it's not a demonized figure in Italian History. He has a more or less favorable reputation even to this day, especially among the older folk and the neofascist groups are abundant, especially in the North-Eastern portion of the country.



Goddamn, i'm Italian and i live in Lombardy.
Mussolini is still liked by some people, elders in particular, for the image of "efficency" and "glory days" he built for himself trough decades of highly focused propaganda helped by the general low cultural level of a country that was mostly agricultural, but ask today any Italian if they think that the racial laws and the alliance with Hitler were a right thing and you'll get a resounding NO in 99% of the cases

I'll drop the OT right now, sorry but in cases with bullshit like this i get triggered and i can't stay cool.


The times I heard and saw the "Orgoglioso di essere fascista (e razzista)" motto, even in certain pubs and Pro-Patria exclusive bars there tells me otherwise, but anyway. People see what they wanna see.

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Gravetemplar
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 2150
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:32 am 
 

Greece and Italy aren't more pro-Fascist than Spain or France. Not to mention the US. The scenes there are nowhere near as fucked up as Poland, Ukraine or Finland.

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InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1723
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:05 pm 
 

Morn Of Solace wrote:
Goddamn, i'm Italian and i live in Lombardy.
Mussolini is still liked by some people, elders in particular, for the image of "efficency" and "glory days" he built for himself trough decades of highly focused propaganda helped by the general low cultural level of a country that was mostly agricultural, but ask today any Italian if they think that the racial laws and the alliance with Hitler were a right thing and you'll get a resounding NO in 99% of the cases

I'll drop the OT right now, sorry but in cases with bullshit like this i get triggered and i can't stay cool.


Yeah, it is very important to realize the divide between italian fascism and german national socialism. While related they aren't the same kind of thing and even when they were working together Mussolini never really liked Hitler. He just made a tactical choice to ally himself with Germany because it strategically looked like the safest bet (couldn't have been more wrong in hindsight). And as you say in Italy people still see a divide between fascism pre-axis and fascism post-axis.

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Inkshooter
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:35 pm 
 

ObservationSlave wrote:

And if we really want to go down a rabbit whole, there is no such thing as free will, so we really can't blame anybody for anything.


The philosophy understander has logged the fuck on.
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PETERG
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:48 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:26 pm 
 

Ok here are my two cents on the matter.

Jon Schaffer is just another artist whose personal life is controversial. We have seen the play before. From Dagon and Varg, to Phil Rudd and Tim Lambensis. I for one am not the "separate the art from the artist" person. Anyone can express their message - political, ethical, social etc.- through their art.

I am not an Iced Earth fan but I respect them for their legacy; especially the amazing "Live in Athens" album which makes me proud that a music group of that caliber decided to record a live session on my homeland. Do I think Schaffer is an idiot? Yes I do. At any rate you cannot burst in a government building with exercised violence. There is no justification for that. Do I also think that Dagon is a twisted piece of shit that likes them toddlers? Yes I do! Will I ever purchase anything from them? No I won't.. I do not want to give money to worthless people who do not respect basic social and ethical structures. But I will continue to listen to their music through other means.
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des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 67
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:28 pm 
 

This really sucks for me man because I fucking ADORE three Iced Earth albums: Self Titled, Stormrider and Something Wicked. Dystopia is pretty solid as well. They were a huge part of my Metal upbringing so to find out that their leader is a pile of shit is a punch in the gut.

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megalowho
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 613
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:10 pm 
 

Inkshooter wrote:
Quote:
And if we really want to go down a rabbit whole, there is no such thing as free will, so we really can't blame anybody for anything.


The philosophy understander has logged the fuck on.


That takes me back to Quine on rabbit parts... :P

(I'll show myself out.)

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interstellar_medium
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 516
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:27 am 
 

Yes there is NSBM in Russia and even Finland.

But these people are not going to switch genre allegiances and listen to Iced Earth all of a sudden, c'mon. Same as non-metal fans.

Hell, when it comes to Russia, Schaffer's stuff is not super popular among PM fans here either. Even D&W - when they played Moscow, the club wasn't that big and it was not packed by any means. BG, on the contrary, you can barely breathe at their gigs.

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ObservationSlave
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 1072
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:06 am 
 

megalowho wrote:
Inkshooter wrote:
Quote:
And if we really want to go down a rabbit whole, there is no such thing as free will, so we really can't blame anybody for anything.


The philosophy understander has logged the fuck on.


That takes me back to Quine on rabbit parts... :P

(I'll show myself out.)


Lmao, I should really learn to proofread my posts...

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Inkshooter
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:02 pm 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
Yes there is NSBM in Russia and even Finland.

But these people are not going to switch genre allegiances and listen to Iced Earth all of a sudden, c'mon. Same as non-metal fans.

Hell, when it comes to Russia, Schaffer's stuff is not super popular among PM fans here either. Even D&W - when they played Moscow, the club wasn't that big and it was not packed by any means. BG, on the contrary, you can barely breathe at their gigs.


What's surprising about NSBM existing in Finland? They were allied to Germany during the war.
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interstellar_medium
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 516
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:23 pm 
 

Inkshooter wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
Yes there is NSBM in Russia and even Finland.

But these people are not going to switch genre allegiances and listen to Iced Earth all of a sudden, c'mon. Same as non-metal fans.

Hell, when it comes to Russia, Schaffer's stuff is not super popular among PM fans here either. Even D&W - when they played Moscow, the club wasn't that big and it was not packed by any means. BG, on the contrary, you can barely breathe at their gigs.


What's surprising about NSBM existing in Finland? They were allied to Germany during the war.


They're this super civilized country with one of the best education systems in the world, this is what does make this backwards attitude kinda surprising.

On the other hand... it was more like "allied against the USSR" and I can't really blame them because Talvisota. And then they lost quite a huge part of Karelia after that and more after the 1941-44 conflict IIRC... I understand why there is a certain grade of Russophobia in Finland, y'know. You don't even need the (apparently super effective) US propaganda machine for that.
And I wouldn't be surprised if it's this Russophobia that drives the Finnish neo-Nazis. Like, the Baltic countries are fine with Hitler because he was not Stalin. Something like this.

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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 2150
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:00 pm 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
Inkshooter wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
Yes there is NSBM in Russia and even Finland.

But these people are not going to switch genre allegiances and listen to Iced Earth all of a sudden, c'mon. Same as non-metal fans.

Hell, when it comes to Russia, Schaffer's stuff is not super popular among PM fans here either. Even D&W - when they played Moscow, the club wasn't that big and it was not packed by any means. BG, on the contrary, you can barely breathe at their gigs.


What's surprising about NSBM existing in Finland? They were allied to Germany during the war.


They're this super civilized country with one of the best education systems in the world, this is what does make this backwards attitude kinda surprising.

On the other hand... it was more like "allied against the USSR" and I can't really blame them because Talvisota. And then they lost quite a huge part of Karelia after that and more after the 1941-44 conflict IIRC... I understand why there is a certain grade of Russophobia in Finland, y'know. You don't even need the (apparently super effective) US propaganda machine for that.
And I wouldn't be surprised if it's this Russophobia that drives the Finnish neo-Nazis. Like, the Baltic countries are fine with Hitler because he was not Stalin. Something like this.

I'm surprised it surprises you, it's no secret that they have one of the strongest NSBM scenes around. A lot of bands are far right-wing or downright fascist. I always (half jokingly) assume a Finnish band is NSBM unless it is proven the contrary. Yeah, it's that bad.

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EldritchSun
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:29 am 
 

Some people doesn't know or tend to forget that countries like Argentina, Chile and Brazil gave shelter to most of SS officers that managed to run off Germany in WW2. It also happened around WWI that large German groups (among them, soldiers that lost that war) went to those countries, put their own colonies and settled there. They left Germany given the terrible economic state which their country was left and of course, many put the blame in a similar place Hitler did (described in Mein Kampf). From there, lots of those people became nazis when the regime was rising to power and helped to shape legit Nazi parties in their respective countries.

It's actually really common among those places to mock jews and blame them of everything happening in the world. There's a lot of hate to them and also to black people (which is odd: Argentina and Chile had very few black slaves given the weather, distance and cost of bringing them and Brazil is a country with a considerable black population). NSBM bands are fairly common as well and among the non blatant NSBM band's members, there's usually at least one of them that's tolerant/supporter to fascist views.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 8443
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:21 pm 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
Inkshooter wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
Yes there is NSBM in Russia and even Finland.

But these people are not going to switch genre allegiances and listen to Iced Earth all of a sudden, c'mon. Same as non-metal fans.

Hell, when it comes to Russia, Schaffer's stuff is not super popular among PM fans here either. Even D&W - when they played Moscow, the club wasn't that big and it was not packed by any means. BG, on the contrary, you can barely breathe at their gigs.


What's surprising about NSBM existing in Finland? They were allied to Germany during the war.


They're this super civilized country with one of the best education systems in the world, this is what does make this backwards attitude kinda surprising.

On the other hand... it was more like "allied against the USSR" and I can't really blame them because Talvisota. And then they lost quite a huge part of Karelia after that and more after the 1941-44 conflict IIRC... I understand why there is a certain grade of Russophobia in Finland, y'know. You don't even need the (apparently super effective) US propaganda machine for that.
And I wouldn't be surprised if it's this Russophobia that drives the Finnish neo-Nazis. Like, the Baltic countries are fine with Hitler because he was not Stalin. Something like this.

Nah, there are just racist, fascist dimwits, who'd be more comfortable with a despot like Stalin than the most milquetoast contemporary liberal centre-left democratic administration.
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AcidWorm
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:44 am 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
Inkshooter wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
Yes there is NSBM in Russia and even Finland.

But these people are not going to switch genre allegiances and listen to Iced Earth all of a sudden, c'mon. Same as non-metal fans.

Hell, when it comes to Russia, Schaffer's stuff is not super popular among PM fans here either. Even D&W - when they played Moscow, the club wasn't that big and it was not packed by any means. BG, on the contrary, you can barely breathe at their gigs.


What's surprising about NSBM existing in Finland? They were allied to Germany during the war.


They're this super civilized country with one of the best education systems in the world, this is what does make this backwards attitude kinda surprising.


These are people seeking a group, sense of belonging, and purpose in life. Financial hardships, and lack of education may not be as common in countries like Finland that have strong safety nets, but there are still other reasons for why people become attracted to Naziism. Unstable homes, families of neglect, and other struggles in life. Some people are also pre-disposed to Authoritarian Personality Syndrome.

On another note, the recent surge worldwide in right-wing extremism is not surprising since conditions have been ripe for it. Worldwide financial crisis, and then a surge in migrations that in some ways exasperated hardships gave people the perfect scapegoat to project that anger that the world has seen time and time again throughout History. The pandemic has also made things worse. Doesn't help that there was little accountability for the rich that caused the financial crisis, and many even got bailed out by the Governments. The emergence of the internet and social media provided a medium for people to radicalize worldwide by easily communicating with like minded people to entrench and reinforce their beliefs as well as mobilize together. Right-wing media in the US at least has greatly strengthened over the last few decades reaching millions of people and radicalizing them. I know it is also an issue in Australia, Rupert Murdoch being Australian for one, but not sure on the media networks in other nations.
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interstellar_medium
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 516
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:04 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
I'm surprised it surprises you, it's no secret that they have one of the strongest NSBM scenes around. A lot of bands are far right-wing or downright fascist. I always (half jokingly) assume a Finnish band is NSBM unless it is proven the contrary. Yeah, it's that bad.


I know it, okay? But some things do not become any less surprising with time.

AcidWorm wrote:
Some people are also pre-disposed to Authoritarian Personality Syndrome.


Now this is something I've heard about for the first time ever... so I googled, and for example, this came up:
https://www.mindingtherapy.com/authorit ... -syndrome/
It says about a third of population is like that?? Please tell me it isn't true.

Ilwhyan wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
On the other hand... it was more like "allied against the USSR" and I can't really blame them because Talvisota. And then they lost quite a huge part of Karelia after that and more after the 1941-44 conflict IIRC... I understand why there is a certain grade of Russophobia in Finland, y'know. You don't even need the (apparently super effective) US propaganda machine for that.
And I wouldn't be surprised if it's this Russophobia that drives the Finnish neo-Nazis. Like, the Baltic countries are fine with Hitler because he was not Stalin. Something like this.

Nah, there are just racist, fascist dimwits, who'd be more comfortable with a despot like Stalin than the most milquetoast contemporary liberal centre-left democratic administration.


And yet they aren't somehow flocking to move to any other country that's ruled by a modern-day Stalin wannabe (there's a few of them out there). They seem to prefer the comforts of actually not living under a despot.

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Oxenkiller
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:20 pm 
 

Authoritarian Personality Syndrome- I would guess in the U.S, probably a third of the adult population IS like that, but we can take some comfort that the other 2/3rds are not. Obviously, most if not all of that 1/3rd are diehard Trump supporters. I remember speaking to a women at a bar once who actually told me she adores Donald Trump because "He's like a stern father figure." This was almost a direct quote! But yet, what is ironic when you talk to someone like this, they will insist that they love the U.S. because of it's "Freedom."

(disgusting, isn't it?) On the same note I suspect that there are plenty of Iranians who claim their society is totally free, because they would still choose to be super conservative ultra-fundamentalist Muslims no matter what kind of government they lived under.

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Opus
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:10 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
On the same note I suspect that there are plenty of Iranians who claim their society is totally free, because they would still choose to be super conservative ultra-fundamentalist Muslims no matter what kind of government they lived under.

You know Iran hasn't always been a super conservative ultra-fundamentalist country?
Pictures of Iran in the 1970s
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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:24 pm 
 

Opus wrote:
Oxenkiller wrote:
On the same note I suspect that there are plenty of Iranians who claim their society is totally free, because they would still choose to be super conservative ultra-fundamentalist Muslims no matter what kind of government they lived under.

You know Iran hasn't always been a super conservative ultra-fundamentalist country?
Pictures of Iran in the 1970s


That’s true, they became super conservative after the revolution in 1979 when Khomeini was installed, the reactionary movement to perceived Western influence.
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Ezadara
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:56 pm 
 

Prior to the revolution Iran was probably the most progressive, forward-thinking country in (if you'll forgive me using a trite phrase) the 'Muslim world'. And the fundamentalist tenor of the country after the revolution doesn't necessarily reflect the aims of many of the revolutionaries, either-- a lot of them were secular social democrats who viewed Khomeini as a rallying point, a figurehead for the anti-Shah movement, and were led to believe he wouldn't be a major part of the post-revolution government. In a way, for those people, the revolution was coopted by Khomeini and his more hardline followers. My family left Iran a long time ago and neither I nor my parents have ever been there but I still believe the people themselves, separate from the loudest voices on the right, have never been particularly reactionary or conservative.

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interstellar_medium
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
Posts: 516
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:24 am 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
...she adores Donald Trump because "He's like a stern father figure." This was almost a direct quote! But yet, what is ironic when you talk to someone like this, they will insist that they love the U.S. because of it's "Freedom."

(disgusting, isn't it?)


OMG.
Where are the facepalm and headdesk smileys?? I could use lots of them right now.

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Nolax
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:29 pm
Posts: 31
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:30 pm 
 

Iced Earth got me thru deaths in the family & my late 2004 stroke because the music & lyrics speak to me. Jon Schaffer & all his bands thanks.

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InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1723
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:09 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
Prior to the revolution Iran was probably the most progressive, forward-thinking country in (if you'll forgive me using a trite phrase) the 'Muslim world'. And the fundamentalist tenor of the country after the revolution doesn't necessarily reflect the aims of many of the revolutionaries, either-- a lot of them were secular social democrats who viewed Khomeini as a rallying point, a figurehead for the anti-Shah movement, and were led to believe he wouldn't be a major part of the post-revolution government. In a way, for those people, the revolution was coopted by Khomeini and his more hardline followers. My family left Iran a long time ago and neither I nor my parents have ever been there but I still believe the people themselves, separate from the loudest voices on the right, have never been particularly reactionary or conservative.


I currently date a persian woman and she is quite clear that they thinks there is a big separation between people and power. Namely that the people aren't really that religious even thoough the country has been under strict religious rule for a long time now. Its also reflected in the numbers where they examine religious demography in the country. Official numbers have it as 99% muslim (about 95% of them being Shia). However a very recent study saw surprising results in that they found: https://theconversation.com/irans-secul ... efs-145253

Quite intertesting. The woman I see at the moment is a Zoroastrian and she does claim it to be quite strong in todays Iran (though not publically). Her family are shia muslims though. Iran is an interesting country for sure.

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interstellar_medium
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:41 am
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:14 pm 
 

InnesI wrote:
However a very recent study saw surprising results in that they found: https://theconversation.com/irans-secul ... efs-145253


Interesting indeed. So that page says,
Quote:
Younger people reported higher levels of irreligiosity and conversion to Christianity than older respondents.


I wonder if they might see "being Christian" as kinda rebellious?
Tangentially reminds me of the story of some Goth teens in Kazakhstan IIRC who were thought to be Christian because of those crosses Goths wear, and it got them into some sort of trouble.

And my history textbook back then in the 90s here in Russia said Zoroastrianism was a dead religion. But then it also said lots of weird things about Gnosticism as well...

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InnesI
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:47 pm 
 

interstellar_medium wrote:
And my history textbook back then in the 90s here in Russia said Zoroastrianism was a dead religion. But then it also said lots of weird things about Gnosticism as well...


It was never dead. Apparently it mainly survived in India but also in Iran.

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Kalaratri
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:22 pm
Posts: 320
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:56 pm 
 

InnesI wrote:
interstellar_medium wrote:
And my history textbook back then in the 90s here in Russia said Zoroastrianism was a dead religion. But then it also said lots of weird things about Gnosticism as well...


It was never dead. Apparently it mainly survived in India but also in Iran.


A large part of the Zoroastrian community fled to India during the fall of the Sasanian Empire and the Islamic conquest of Iran. The Parsi community that is mainly centered in Western India (specifically Gujarat but also other places) are their descendants. They still observe much of the same religious and cultural practices, but there are obviously some differences. There are some pretty famous people of Parsi descent, Freddie Mercury is probably the most famous when it comes to the music industry.

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InnesI
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:30 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
A large part of the Zoroastrian community fled to India during the fall of the Sasanian Empire and the Islamic conquest of Iran. The Parsi community that is mainly centered in Western India (specifically Gujarat but also other places) are their descendants. They still observe much of the same religious and cultural practices, but there are obviously some differences. There are some pretty famous people of Parsi descent, Freddie Mercury is probably the most famous when it comes to the music industry.


I listened to a couple of podcasts on Zoroastrianism a while back and one of them were quite clear in that the Zoroastrian communities in India and in Iran was actually very different. I can't quite remember in what way but it was insinuated that they disagree on some quite fundamental aspects of the faith.

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Slater922
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:32 pm 
 

I already mention this in the Hipster Black Metal thread, but I feel like I should talk about it here aswell.



Seriously? You're saying that someone who broke into a federal building with intent to do all sorts of unthinkable things "did nothing wrong"? I'd beg to differ.
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:13 pm 
 

>implying we should be giving Razorfist any sort of attention
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thrashmaniac87
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:24 pm 
 

That was fucking vile. King of the libertarian incels. Are all of his videos that obnoxious?
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Slater922
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:34 pm 
 

thrashmaniac87 wrote:
That was fucking vile. King of the libertarian incels. Are all of his videos that obnoxious?

Not all of them. I'm fine with his Metal Mythos series, where he looks back on a band's discography, but his political beliefs are something that I just can't support.
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Twisted_Psychology
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:54 pm 
 

Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
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Razakel
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:51 pm 
 

Holy fucking christ why did I press play on that video :ugh:

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:52 pm 
 

It's such a shame "YouTuber" is a category of person taken seriously now.
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