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Sekrys
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:00 pm
Posts: 10
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:38 pm 
 

Saxon - Destiny

I realize that a majority of Saxon fans don't like this record, and that the vast majority of those on Metallum likely would also despise Destiny (48% average of 5 reviews: three ~20% reviews; two positive but one of them is my own). Much of the record is horribly cheesy, and it is indeed a betrayal of the band's heavy metal sound of the early days. However, I really don't think Destiny is all that bad; I guess I like crappy glam rock. To be honest I like Destiny more than what I have heard off of Rock the Nations and some of the closer albums that succeed it. I do understand a good amount the hate for the record and I definitely won't tell people that they aren't Saxon fans for not liking the album (obviously they are), but I do think it is much better than other sellout attempts by some of their contemporaries (like Grave Digger's Stronger Than Ever, for instance). I'm somewhat happy that Saxon sold out during the 80's for glam and not in the 90's for groove.
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Terri23
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2616
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:10 am 
 

A few that others have touched on:

Judas Priest: Ram it Down. I don't know if it is so much hated as overlooked. It has the unfortunate position of being the album after the album that made everyone stop caring, and before the album that brought them roaring back. Blood Red Skies is a fucking masterpiece, and if you haven't done so, I recommend the the 12 minute version that is floating around YouTube.

Iron Maiden: X Factor. As others have said, this is a far better record than it is rated. Sign of the Cross is a fucking excellent song. It's not perfect, and songs like Fortunes of War are too long and drag. Blaze is a solid vocalist here, and the biggest crime he commited was following in the footsteps of a vocalist that couldn't be replaced. This album could have used one or two of the shorter tracks that didn't make the record, such as I Live My Way or Justice of the Peace.

Sekrys wrote:
Saxon - Destiny

I realize that a majority of Saxon fans don't like this record, and that the vast majority of those on Metallum likely would also despise Destiny (48% average of 5 reviews: three ~20% reviews; two positive but one of them is my own). Much of the record is horribly cheesy, and it is indeed a betrayal of the band's heavy metal sound of the early days. However, I really don't think Destiny is all that bad; I guess I like crappy glam rock. To be honest I like Destiny more than what I have heard off of Rock the Nations and some of the closer albums that succeed it. I do understand a good amount the hate for the record and I definitely won't tell people that they aren't Saxon fans for not liking the album (obviously they are), but I do think it is much better than other sellout attempts by some of their contemporaries (like Grave Digger's Stronger Than Ever, for instance). I'm somewhat happy that Saxon sold out during the 80's for glam and not in the 90's for groove.


Nah man, this just sucks.
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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 1687
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:26 am 
 

MetalManiaCometh wrote:
Megadeth’s Risk and Super Collider. Listen.... Risk isn’t that good of an album but it’s not as bad some make it out to be and has a few decent tracks such as Crush’em, Breadline, and Insomnia; it’s just an album that tries to experiment and well...doesn’t do it that well. Same can be said with Super Collider as it offers some strong tracks like the opener Kingmaker or The Blackest Crow; from my viewpoint, I found this album to be a much more well rounded effort compared to Risk ( still don’t think SC is good though).



I'm gonna agree with you on Risk. If not for Super Collider (which I can't really get into but for a few songs), it'd be the lowest rated Megadeth album by 12% up to The World Needs a Hero (50% vs 62% here on MA).

Risk could've been a pretty decent album if it wasn't so long. Dave really needed to edit a bit here and cut those 51 minutes down to maybe 35 minutes, cutting out 3-4 of the most boring tracks. Leading with Insomnia, Prince of Darkness, Crush 'Em and Breadline, the entire first half of the album is pretty solid and pretty much in tune with the direction Megadeth would be expected to take coming off of Cryptic Writings.

I get that Dave was more or less taking Megadeth into the opposite direction of what their old fans wanted, probably in a bid to stay relevant or find new fans in a broader audience. He was definitely experimenting with the formula, and I kind of like the result. Those first four songs (I don't count Enter the Arena as its own thing) were probably among my most listened to Megadeth tracks for a good long while some ten years ago. Ironically it wouldn't be until Dave's solo album (The System Has Failed, which was released as a Megadeth album after all) that the band would be sort of returning to something more recognisable as the Megadeth we knew.
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lordcatfish
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:44 pm
Posts: 756
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:41 am 
 

I think Risk and Super Collider are both decent albums. In particular, I think the three song run of "I'll Be There", "Wanderlust" and "Ecstasy" on the former is brilliant.
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Wahn_nhaW
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
Posts: 140
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:51 am 
 

I think Risk is a bad album overall, but I'd still pick it over anything they released after it. However misguided the inspiration for that album was, there was at least some inspiration. Everything after it is incredibly phoned in, even something like Endgame, which I remember people liking a lot when it came out.

I was a die-hard when The World Needs a Hero came out, but that album ended it for me. What an embarrassing album. People were happy that it was not Risk 2, but I actually thought it was worse than Risk. The System was serviceable, it got my hopes up, but at some point I realized they were on autopilot and they were always going to be. I checked out every subsequent album just for old times' sake, but nothing stuck.
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Hemwick
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:07 pm
Posts: 11
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:51 am 
 

I couldn't agree more with Lamb of gods' NAG, that and Burn The Priest album is all I can enjoy by them. The production on NAG was excellent as well. Steve Austin did a great job on it (can't say that for other bands he works with). Plus i really enjoyed Randy's vocals on NAG, he had something differnt going but familiar, almost like Dave Brockie's at times.

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Gravetemplar
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 2150
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:33 am 
 

I'm still not sure why people use MA ratings for claiming an album is well liked or not. You all realize they are completely arbitrary, don't you? Yeah, four people didn't like that album, how is four people not liking something relevant? Just saying this because I've seen them used a few times in this thread and it makes no sense.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 412
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:41 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
I'm still not sure why people use MA ratings for claiming an album is well liked or not. You all realize they are completely arbitrary, don't you? Yeah, four people didn't like that album, how is four people not liking something relevant? Just saying this because I've seen them used a few times in this thread and it makes no sense.

That's true. Hence, why I go for albums that were reviewed by at least 10 people or more whenever I call an album overrated/overhated. Just because two people give an album a 0% doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way to the album.
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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5365
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:09 pm 
 

It's not on the Archives anymore but I've always been fond of 2wo's Voyeurs. While the album was lambasted for Halford joining the industrial trend and declaring that metal was dead at the time, it was a fairly logical progression from his fight. He may not use the full extent of his range but I really get into the mood of his performance. That combination of frustration, apathy, and sadness is one that resonates and there is some real catharsis on tracks like I Am A Pig, Stutter Kiss, and Bed of Rust. I think it's more forgotten than outright hated these days, but I definitely remember it having a lot of rough coverage.
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Hemwick
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:07 pm
Posts: 11
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:06 pm 
 

Neurosis Honor Found In Decay

So much hate even from life long fans but I never got the hate.
The album is a slow burn and repetitive, but that's why I love it the band members lost loved ones before and during the writing process and channel the emotions into the song writing. The stages of grief appear throughout this work of art. All is found in time is a masterpiece that build up in the beginning up until that hammer crushes you back down. That moment is so worth it. I easily put this in my top three by them.

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EldritchSun
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:32 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
I'm still not sure why people use MA ratings for claiming an album is well liked or not. You all realize they are completely arbitrary, don't you? Yeah, four people didn't like that album, how is four people not liking something relevant? Just saying this because I've seen them used a few times in this thread and it makes no sense.

Not counting the troll reviews from guys who only gave/give 0%-5% ratings. Also, the zealots who give 100% to every shit their favorite artist take distort the overall average rate. The MA rating can only be midly useful when there are enough reviews to flatten the most extreme ratings.

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FirebathDan
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 1340
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:34 pm 
 

EldritchSun wrote:

Illud could have been a really solid release just with a mere different track order. If they released the album with a pure death metal side and the more experimental in the other, people might have understood it better or at least able to appreciate the good stuff on it. I'll go and say that the "pure" death metal songs are pretty good.

With a slightly different production choices (like a bit more reverb on vocals and the snare, riffs slightly higher in the mix, kicks with less boost on 5k and a bit more mid range on them (like Death's TSOP) those tracks would have SLAYED.

Also, if Trey wrote solos like the Domination ones, the tracks might also have been more impactful. Anyway: If Morbid Angel decided that Illud was a solid 5 track EP instead, it could have been easily ranked within the 70-80% rate range:

1) Blades for Baal: FUCKING GREAT SONG. It just slays hard from start to finish. It's packed with good riffs and it's brutal as hell.

2) Nevermore: Solid song that mixes a slight Domination style with the few decent Heretic songwriting linings. The verse riff is great and the vocal patters are spot on. I also like the brooding tremolo riff in the slow section past 2 minutes. Feels pretty menacing.

3) Existo Vulgore: This one is not bad per se, but the verse riff is sorta underwhelming. Still, the riff in the breakdown around 2:00... FUCKING NASTY RIFF. Dawn of the Angry-like nasty.

4) 10 More Dead: It's a different song and a welcome change. It starts all groovy with good riffing but when it picks up... Morbid Angel returned to fucking GATEWAYS right there. Around 2:40 comes a fucking CRUSHING riff that could have been easily written by Erik Rutan.

5) Beauty Meets Beast: Huge GATEWAYS vibe. Great track overall. It mixes some of the later Domination tracks sort of pace with the obvious Gateways mindset.

These tracks absolutely SLAY both Heretic and Kingdoms.


I’m mostly with you on this. I also go to bat for “Too Extreme”, “Profundis-Mea Culpa”, and “Destructos/Attack”. None of those are great songs per se, but they are very interesting conceptual ideas, particularly the former two blending death metal with hardcore techno. It took huge balls to even try this. The only throwaway tracks are “I Am Morbid” and “Radikult”, huge missteps there. Illud is a way more memorable album as a whole compared to Kingdoms.

Also, The Unspoken King is nowhere near as bad as it’s made out to be, it’s infinitely superior to the tuneless, formless, utter nonsense album Once Was Not. That album is worthy of scorn for having utterly structureless songs, a drum centric production, completely unmemorable riffs, and one of the most phoned in vocal performance I’ve ever heard. At least TUK has some interesting ideas and memorable songs.

That is to say, nether album is close to being the best work by either band. That should be obvious. But I always think some degree of credit is due when bands don’t play it safe. Which playing it safe is arguably the route both bands took after these albums, with very different results (I like what Cryptopsy has done, don’t care at all for Kingdoms).
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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:44 pm 
 

Hemwick wrote:
Neurosis Honor Found In Decay

So much hate even from life long fans but I never got the hate.
The album is a slow burn and repetitive, but that's why I love it the band members lost loved ones before and during the writing process and channel the emotions into the song writing. The stages of grief appear throughout this work of art. All is found in time is a masterpiece that build up in the beginning up until that hammer crushes you back down. That moment is so worth it. I easily put this in my top three by them.

Nah, that album was really bad. Neurosis was my favourite band time at the time and I hated it. I clearly remember people at shows going to the bathroom or the bar when they played songs from it. Meanwhile, people were moshing to songs from Given to the Rising. It's their St. Anger.

The problem was not the album being too slow or repetitive (all their albums are to a degree). I mean, it was part of the problem but still not the whole picture. For me it's the awful keyboards (honestly, the whole album could have worked with better keyboards), the dumbed down and plastic sounding production that makes the songs fall flat, all songs are way too long, they use major keys in a few songs and it doesn't work at all, most of the songs are just the same two/three mediocre ideas repeated ad nauseam, etc. It's their worst album and their only misstep so far. I still think something decent could have come out of it with a different production, shorter songs and better keyboards but this is a really bad album that gets a pass because it's Neurosis.

Honor Found in Decay was so bad their next album was the complete opposite: shorter songs with more ideas, organic and rich sound full of keyboard textures, keyboards being a lot more predominant and better, better riffs, much shorter album, etc.

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Hemwick
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:07 pm
Posts: 11
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:11 pm 
 

I can see your points and understand what you are saying and agree with Fires Within fires. That album just comes at you out of the gate. They are band that no matter what I'll listen and respect what they do. Like all of us they aren't perfect. But that albums holds a place in my heart.

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