I only really heard Technical Ecstasy, Never Say Die and Forbidden once each, but they just all sounded notably weaker than the band's really good material. This is also the issue with Fear of the Dark and 90s Maiden. Tastes will vary and some seem to like em - I didn't think Technical Ecstasy was too bad really. But eh when you got a huge repertoire of classics it's harder to live up.

I'll give you Dirty Women, and I like You Won't Change me, but there's a handful of songs from NSD I like more than the latter.

At The Gates - Slaughter of the Soul

This album seems to be hated because of the terrible 2000s metalcore it influenced rather than due to its own quality. It's an awesome Slayer-influenced death/thrash album with some nicely melodramatic, epic gloomy melodies on top and a ferocious vocal performance. I know some people consider it a sell-out album compared to their early material, but the main songwriter had left the band, so of course their sound was going to change.

I mostly agree with you on Death Magnetic, although I do think that the production is overly saturated for no good reason. Rick Rubin really isn't a good metal producer, and he's one of the worst offenders in the loudness war. I do agree that most of the songs are pretty good on there are good though, although they are a little drawn out. I wouldn't say it's an hated album though. People didn't give it as much shit as St. Anger or Lulu, and the reviews on MA are mixed. I think most of the negative criticism comes from the fact that this was kind of marketed as a return to forms and was a half-failure in that regard as it didn't get as much praise as the material from their early days, but also didn't take much risks.

As for Hardwired, I think it's a decent album and that it would have been better if they trimmed the fat, removed the fillers and made it a regular LP instead of a double.

I quite enjoy and revisit both Renewal and Cause for Conflict by Kreator. They both have a more dark urban feel to them, and the former even feels contemplative at times. Similarly I'm also extremely fond of Grin by Coroner. It's picked up more love recently than it used to get, but I remember back in the day many hating it. I love the tribal drumming and the minimalism of it all. Coroner essentially removed all but the bare minimum and made it cold and disassociated in sound.

Lastly, W.A.S.P.'s album K.F.D. works on a similar level as the aforementioned releases above, albeit in a much more angst driven way.

I'm a bit of a Slayer fanboy but I don't think any of the albums people normally consider 'bad' Slayer albums are actually bad. I really like Divine Intervention and think that Christ Illusion and World Painted Blood are both really solid. Diabolus in Musica, God Hates Us All and Repentless all have some good songs on them too but of course I recognize that all of these albums are weaker than the band's classic period.

Seconding 90s Kreator and Coroner. What I hear in those albums is a big post-punk influence and I'd say that's where all that space comes from. It's sparse and stark in a similar way to all the early 80s post-punk and goth bands, which is as good an influence to have as any, in my book. Instead of the scratchy guitars of something like Bauhaus, for example, you have metal guitars, as played by bands that obviously used to be thrash, but have exhausted that style, while keeping the technique inherent to it. That is a damn sweet combination.

Also seconding Load/ReLoad. What will always put those albums far above something like St. Anger and even their latest two (Lulu is a special case) is that the band sounds like they're doing exactly what they want to do. The albums have a reputation as something that was drafted by some executive board, a result of market research, but in fact they sound very natural and the band sounds so comfortable playing that style. There is definitely some filler on both, though.

As I've already mentioned in another thread, I'm fine with Roots as well. Sepultura had already done the riff-onslaught approach, brought it to perfection, they were not going to take it any further. So now, instead of a-mile-a-minute riffing, you have all these guitar textures and layering, which I think they pulled off pretty well. I hear much more than nu-metal here. When they covered "The Hunt" on Chaos A.D, they showed that they were familiar with 80s alternative stuff and I hear a lot of that in Roots too, noise rock etc. Again, lots of textures, which require some time to pick out. Granted, the album does take some patience before it all falls into place, but it worked for me. Again, like Load and ReLoad, it could stand to be trimmed a bit.

An album that is hated by fans and the band alike is Falling into Infinity. I cannot get enough of this one, though, and prefer it to everything they released afterwards. It's got SONGS. It's also got Doug Pinnick on it, which is always a plus. Love the cover art, love the whole vibe of the album, love the Floyd influence. It's got everything I liked about them on the previous ones, though obviously toned down in terms of technicality, no big deal for me.

I like the songwriting on Never Say Die but it seemed to be recorded in a noncommittal sort of way. On one hand, the riffs on songs like Johnny Blade and Shock Wave would be incredibly heavy with the right guitar tone and it makes me wish that they had recorded in a more "metal" fashion. On the other hand, Ozzy's vocals sound really out of place to the point that Swinging the Chain makes me wish they had just recorded the whole thing with Bill Ward singing instead. It's the sort of album that's not bad in itself but the songs end up sounding better when covered by other artists.



https://mosgenerator.bandcamp.com/track ... bath-cover

Celtic Frost "Cold Lake". It been getting shit on for decades. I get it, visually it's hideous. And though the music can't hold a light to earlier Frost, I still can't hate it like other fans of the band do.

I think this is mostly because the people who frequent Metal Archives and the forums are in an age group (or whatever) that stopped following Slayer a while ago, so Repentless just sounds like "more of the same" that they've been doing for the last two decades. I feel the same way, really. Had I been introduced to Slayer now, Repentless would've probably felt on par with Christ Illusion, World Painted Blood or God Hates Us All, but given that I started listening around the time of Christ Illusion, and then worked my way back through their catalogue, everything that came after just felt stale. The same can probably be said for a lot of hated late-career albums.

Yep. I agree with that. I think if Metallica had been looking to ride the gravy train they would have made TBA 2. Load IMO is a very honest look at where the band was mentally, especially Hetfield. Raging against the system and all that was fine, but I think he was starting to look inward at how screwed up he was and Load was a natural outcome of that. I think ReLoad has some filler as a result of how it was put together, the "leftovers" of the Load sessions, but it had some great tracks as well. I'd put Load over any album that came after it and I like most of those albums.

I like this one as well. While I do think Ernie C's production sucks, and there's maybe a filler track here and there, I enjoy most of the songs on Forbidden. I really dig 'Get a Grip', 'Rusty Angels', 'Can't Get Close Enough to You', and I think 'Kiss of Death' is a true gem in the Sabbath discography (love that fast riff later on in the song). I've seen 'The Illusion of Power' dubbed as 'rap Sabbath' simply because of Ice-T's guest appearance, for all of 20 or 30 seconds... and he doesn't even rap on it. 13 is the worst Sabbath record for me.

I know both Judas Priest's Jugulator and Nostradamus have ratings of 70% on here, but I'm guessing that in general they're not particularly well-liked albums? I've always liked the heaviness of Jugulator - love all the riffs on each track. Not really a fan of Tipton/Downing's tuneless guitar solos on some of the songs, and some of the lyrics are pretty dumb too, but I do like Tim Owens' vocal performance on the record. I won't say he's better than Halford of course, but I don't think he ruins this album or anything like that. As for Nostradamus, I find it to be far too long overall, but there's a handful of tracks that I love - 'Prophecy', 'Pestilence and Plague', 'Death', 'Conquest', 'Visions' and 'Nostradamus'. I actually think these are some of the strongest songs the band have written since Rob reunited, though I can't deny that this album in general is an acquired taste, and not typical of the band (guess the same can be said for Jugulator).

I will never, ever, understand why people can hear actual music in Metallica's "Lulu". I will never be able to have any kind of understanding for that.

It's the worst thing ever made by any major rock/metal band and only somewhat "succeeds" in being listenable because it's one big fucking joke on us all.

Monty Python wish they'd that one available to them in their heyday to turn it into a fucking skit.

------

Judas Priest's "Jugulator" is a good album, Ripper was an amazing vocalist. It was just too different for the classic fan to be appreciated.

Iron Maiden's "The X Factor" is one of their better albums and "The Edge of Darkness" might be my favourite Maiden song, actually.

Jugulator rips, a fine album. Lyrically is it much worse than Painkiller? No. Priest was not a band I listened to for deep lyrics in any event.

Yeah, I bolded some parts that I think are important. But even beyond that, they were still inspired just on a purely musical level. It doesn't sound like they're scrambling for ideas. These days, I'd even say I prefer ReLoad. More inconsistent, but bigger highlights, I guess.

Sunbather

I like Jugulator a fair amount but I've always found it to be a dumbed down version of Painkiller both musically and lyrically. On top of Jugulator's riffs being simpler and the tempos going for more groove vibes compared to the faster, more flamboyant playing on Painkiller, the lyrics feel like a dramatic downgrade. Consider the following lyrical samples:

"Cross cutting thundercharge
Blade of destruction
Flame throwing hurricane
Destroys the cage

Bone crushing alien
God of salvation
Sad wings that heaven sent
Wipes out in rage"
-All Guns Blazing

"Exterminator
You are dead
Mutilate

Sharpened razor
Takes your head
Jugulator"
-Jugulator

Like yeah, both songs are about dumb metal monsters doing dumb metal monster things. Neither is particularly deep in subject matter but you have to admit that one of those is written with an actual vocabulary and imagination that is abundantly lacking in the other.

The Glorious Burden from Iced Earth. Honestly, I'd put Plagues of Babylon and Crucible of Man ahead of that album when it comes to their worst one. It has the same issues as Framing Armageddon, it's kind of bloated, but I enjoyed the hell out of it.

Dissection's "Reinkaos" is super cool to hate. So much so that people overreach and rate it 0% and refer to it as one of the worst albums ever. I don't believe anybody that says that truly feels that way. And even if you dislike it, it's still serviceable blackish melodeath, and super catchy. I for one love it.

St. Anger is the best album after Load.

It’s interesting. Initially I hated Reinkaos, I found it too melodic and for the subject matter not “dark” enough. Honestly after some time and really giving it a chance I gave in to just how good the songwriting is. It’s my least favourite Dissection album but hell for me that still puts it above like 85% of their peers.

Quite a bold statement to say.


I don't really get why people hate it either. Sure, it feels kinda weak compared to their previous albums, but Reinkaos is still a pretty damn good album, and I would give it a 90% should I ever review it.

Is Hero by Bolzer considered an overhated album? A lot of people seemed really disappointed with this album from different reviews i've seen, but I think it's a good album, even if it's much different from the sound on their EPs.

I feel most of the disappointment came from the lame clean vocals. Don't get me wrong, I like the album a lot but it could have been a thousand times better with another singer. The one with the guy from Svartidaudi is the best track on the album for that reason solely.

Around the time that one came out the Bolzer guy was accused of being racist. That might have affected the way the album was perceived by some people.

I'm still not sure what the Bolzer guys believe. I didn't think they were racist. But who even fucking knows these days.

Hero was a great album though. I liked it easily more than their demo stuff. An expansive, interesting sound.

I don't think he's racist, just a bit of an edge-lord. His father is black and he's stated a lot of times how proud he is of his father, which is a weird thing for a racist to do but who knows.

Virgin Steele's "Life Among the Ruins" is a really good hard rock/metal album. The songwriting on average is much better than the 80s albums before it that are somewhat (or at least half-)beloved.

I recall reading that Okoi sees the usage of the swastika/sunwheel by nazi-germany as a small but tragic part of it's history. I think he's just super into the older meanings of a symbol that has been used by a lot of different cultures over the course of thousands of years, and he wants to play a role in reclaiming it. An uphill battle, to put it mildly.

About Hero; It's a bit overhated yeah. People were expecting an album full of Wolfhooks but got something else. But I think it's a great album. Primal and adventurous.

This thread has been done a billion times dude, whatchu talkin' bout?

Anyway, I'm gonna say what I always say whenever this topic comes up. I challenge you all to HARD MODE, where instead of just listing off albums that got a lukewarm reception or are seen as a flukey not-great one in an otherwise great discography, talk about something that's actually hated. Look for something that has less than a 50% review score here, or has less than a 2.5 on RYM or something. Nobody is gonna think you're brave or interesting for saying Fear of the Dark or Turbo is good. Step up to the god damned table and throw your cards down in defense of Illud Divinum Insanus or Roots or The Unspoken King or something. Get weird with it!

Don't mind if I do!

Not having the nostalgic baggage of being familiar with Morbid Angel's previous works when I first took a listen out of curiosity, it's a mixture of silly fun...whatever-you'd-call-its with "Destructos" and "Radikult," and some pretty solid, regular death metal with "Blades for Baal" or "Nevermore." It's actually not a bad album at all. Even if it gets supremely silly throughout, I'll take supremely silly faux-death metal over whatever it is Ghost is doing over there.

Illud could have been a really solid release just with a mere different track order. If they released the album with a pure death metal side and the more experimental in the other, people might have understood it better or at least able to appreciate the good stuff on it. I'll go and say that the "pure" death metal songs are pretty good.

With a slightly different production choices (like a bit more reverb on vocals and the snare, riffs slightly higher in the mix, kicks with less boost on 5k and a bit more mid range on them (like Death's TSOP) those tracks would have SLAYED.

Also, if Trey wrote solos like the Domination ones, the tracks might also have been more impactful. Anyway: If Morbid Angel decided that Illud was a solid 5 track EP instead, it could have been easily ranked within the 70-80% rate range:

1) Blades for Baal: FUCKING GREAT SONG. It just slays hard from start to finish. It's packed with good riffs and it's brutal as hell.

2) Nevermore: Solid song that mixes a slight Domination style with the few decent Heretic songwriting linings. The verse riff is great and the vocal patters are spot on. I also like the brooding tremolo riff in the slow section past 2 minutes. Feels pretty menacing.

3) Existo Vulgore: This one is not bad per se, but the verse riff is sorta underwhelming. Still, the riff in the breakdown around 2:00... FUCKING NASTY RIFF. Dawn of the Angry-like nasty.

4) 10 More Dead: It's a different song and a welcome change. It starts all groovy with good riffing but when it picks up... Morbid Angel returned to fucking GATEWAYS right there. Around 2:40 comes a fucking CRUSHING riff that could have been easily written by Erik Rutan.

5) Beauty Meets Beast: Huge GATEWAYS vibe. Great track overall. It mixes some of the later Domination tracks sort of pace with the obvious Gateways mindset.

These tracks absolutely SLAY both Heretic and Kingdoms.

Judas Priest’s Jugulator and Demolition seems to have been covered well. I don’t find these albums to be really bad, always liked the heavier approach the band had for these two records after Painkiller but I will agree they are more bottom of the barrel in JP’s discography. Turbo and Ram It Down get a lot of shit but I still really enjoy those albums, more so Ram It Down over Turbo.

Iron Maiden’s No Prayer For The Dying, Fear Of The Dark, The X Factor. NPFTD and FOTD both have some excellent tracks here though there is quite a bit of filler but as filler material goes, it isn’t that bad. The X Factor in my opinion, is a much better album than the last two as it explores a dark contrast than what was done before with the band and Blaze does a great job on here. Virtual XI anyhow, isn’t very good so I can’t say the negativity for that one isn’t justifiable (I still like some tracks on it though).

Gamma Ray’s Sigh No More and Insanity And Genius. I noticed these get a lot of flack but I really like these two for their wacky ideas and song structures. Both albums have some great tracks and some really good performances. Are they as good as Somewhere Out In Space or Land Of The Free? Hell no but that doesn’t mean they are bad or mediocre. Pretty good albums, no more no less.

Slayer’s Repentless. It’s not a terrible record, more average / mediocre than anything. Like, I see alot of 20s, 30s, and 40s for it and it isn’t THAT bad. I can understand a score in the 60s or even high 50s? Sure, but damn it’s not really a bad record at all; it’s much better than God Hates Us All and the terrible Diabolus In Musica.

Megadeth’s Risk and Super Collider. Listen.... Risk isn’t that good of an album but it’s not as bad some make it out to be and has a few decent tracks such as Crush’em, Breadline, and Insomnia; it’s just an album that tries to experiment and well...doesn’t do it that well. Same can be said with Super Collider as it offers some strong tracks like the opener Kingmaker or The Blackest Crow; from my viewpoint, I found this album to be a much more well rounded effort compared to Risk ( still don’t think SC is good though).

I guess I can say the same thing like I said above for Metallica’s Load and Reload. There are some good tracks on these two, nothing I can say in good faith being great or above that but there are some decent ones. I can’t say that these are good though, as the writing ranges from being pretty dull to being pretty bad but the dull moments out way the bad ones. So yeah, Load / Reload gets a lot of shit but they aren’t that bad. Now regarding albums like St. Anger and LuLu; are they overhated? Lol nah, those are utter shit but I will give that LuLu has very little redeeming qualities, while St. Anger I can’t find one thing positive about the record. Everything from the production, to the playing, to James vocals, to the writing in general is utter trash. Usually the people that give raving reviews are the ones saying “but it’s MEANT to be bad, that’s the point, the theme! That means it’s good” and all I can tell you is that just because you purposefully make something BAD doesn’t make it good. I’m a script writer and film major and you don’t know how many times I have to explain that regarding the quality of writing, especially in film.

Overkill’s I Hear Black, The Killing Kind, From Underground And Below, Necroshine, and Immortalis. As you can probably notice, I’m a big fan of the band and they are my favorite band in general but I feel these are less lukewarm receptions and more “you like them or you hate them” and I’m very much on the fence of liking them. They aren’t perfect albums but I find them to pretty good overall. I already explained my thoughts on I Hear Black in my review but regarding the TKK, FUAB, and Necro, I really believe that the band incorporated the groove elements well into their sound. Personally, I think they played groove metal much better than a handful of groove metal bands at the time and there’s a handful of songs I really love from this era of the band.
Immortalis is their worst but I don’t think it’s a bad album, there’s plenty of good things to be found here and I actually like Randy singing on Skull and Bones with Blitz but I like Lamb Of God so sue me. I just think album acts as transitional period between their more groove influenced thrash metal and the onslaught thrash attack of Ironbound. Immortalis has a couple of great tracks, some good ones and little bit of filler but nothing even close to what I deem bad, more like a low 70 rating.
I could mention W.F.O and Bloodletting but the main issue I have with those is the production (W.F.O, yes the bass is way too loud but besides that everything else sounds great) and some awkward moments (Bloodletting) but those two can kick some serious ass and the criticisms I’ve read don’t hold much weight, in my opinion.

I guess to rattle off some, Morbid Angel’s Illud Divinum Insanus, Deicide’s Insineratehymn, Cannibal Corpse’s Vile, Helloween’s Chameleon (still see people shit on this one), Iced Earth’s The Glorious Burden, Anthrax’s Stomp 442, Annihilator’s Set The World On Fire / Criteria For A Black Widow / Refresh The Demon, and Exodus’s Force Of Habit. There’s probably more but these are the ones off the top of my head.

I can't really vouch for Kingdoms, as I can't recall much of it (which is perhaps a statement in itself, but I do need to give it more time), but no way the best of Illud is topping the best of Heretic (which, save for excessive interludes, is a good album, production and all). I think "Praise the Strength" in particular is a great song.

I'm waiting for Anus_Canis to come in here and bless us with a 10-page essay on why he's justified in giving St. Anger a perfect 100% in his review.

Agreed, and while we're on the subject of ATG, it seems to me their post-reunion albums (At War with Reality and To Drink from the Night Itself) are a little overly criticized too. I don't think they're as strong as the classic stuff, but just based on their own merit I find the scores a little harsh.

To Drink from the Night Itself has the lower score, currently at 68%, but I think it's worthy of something in the 70s or 80s. That's just me, and it doesn't necessarily constitute "overly hated", so maybe it doesn't fit this thread, idk.

The sound of kitchen cookery being beaten with a wooden spoon gives him a raging stiffie.

Okay, this is maybe more appropriate for the title of the thread. I've always had a soft spot for Lamb of God's New American Gospel (currently sporting a 53% rating here on the Archives).

One of the reviews I most agree with is BastardHead's, which I read (and was happy to read) back when it was posted in 2019. Because the majority of the reviews stomp all over NAG and go off on why it's, well, basically a piece of shit. We're talking scores of 21%, 37%, 15%... 12%.

But what I've always heard was balls out chaos. Like coming apart at the seams/ roaring locomotive about to jump the tracks chaos. Something that barely holds together, but does, and like some kind of mad-experiment/happy accident which they couldn't do again even if they tried.

And I'm not a big LOG fan, I stopped listening after Wrath and traded all but the first 3, but of the first 3, New American Gospel is probably the one I most often go to, and it kind of seems the most "metal" to me in a lot of ways.

Agreed. I actually really like the reunion albums myself. I never saw Slaughter of the Soul as hated though, when it came out it was considered to be the benchmark in Melodic death Metal... impact wise I thought it was much like Heartwork in it’s reception; at least from what I remember back then. I feel like the post ‘00s we’ve seen some revisionism due to the influence of that album rather than just judging it based on its merits and context of the time.

Helloween - Chameleon: This gets quite the hate and yeah, it isn't as good as the Keepers albums but the album itself is good. You've got annoying songs here and there but as a whole, it's not bad. "Giants" is just awesome and one of the best Helloween songs in their catalogue. "Rabbit Don't Come Easy" is a bit worse but still not a bad album, imo.

Labyrinth - Freeman: Going into their more prog and borderline "Nu-". There are couple of songs that I, honestly, enjoy and have no shame saying it so.