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plagueofangels
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:58 pm
Posts: 196
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:59 pm 
 

Reddit apparently got wind that HF is a racist band and raised hell. Now they're banned on Spotify and pulled from Bandcamp. Not that convincing Reddit that something is racist is harder than shooting fish in a barrel, but they have a lot of influence in deplatforming and censoring others.

Wikipedia states them as a racist band. But, their own article fails to provide an example of their supposed hatred. So what gives?

What have they put in their art that said "This is a racist band, Heil Hitler" etc. to that effect. Not sly little suggestions or edgy symbols - black metal is highly offensive as a medium and toys with mysticism and primitivism as a style. What makes HF directly racist in its image?

What have they said in their lyrics. Because they haven't published any and working them out is not easy. I've even had a stab at translating some of the vocals, as a few aren't too hard to work out e.g. during What the Ruins Remember at 2:12, there's a line "she lets you scream in choice". But they never call for violence, deny the Holocaust or drop the n-bomb. Not unless Roman gangsta raps on the side?

Which song, record, or anything by Hate Forest - PRECISELY - is racist. Okay, if you're in black metal, it's sometimes offensive, holy shit, sorry no one told you about that, but hate isn't racist, forests aren't racist, trees aren't racist, so why is HF getting cancelled for being racist.

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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1864
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:07 pm 
 

Well, they have an EP called Aryosophia, which is a direct reference to the ideology that became National Sozialism, soooooo...
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Speed Metal Terror
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:14 pm
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:27 pm 
 

Wasn't this the band that issued the statement (paraphrasing):
"Any subhuman that buys our albums is only contributing to their own destruction." ?
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Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 967
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:29 pm 
 

Well, I'm sure this thread will end well...
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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:32 pm 
 

They used to sell shirts commemorating a nazi murderer.

Roman-Taras Yosypovych Shukhevych (Ukrainian: Рома́н-Тарас Йо́сипович Шухе́вич), also known by his pseudonym Taras Chuprynka (June 30, 1907 – March 5, 1950), was a Ukrainian nationalist, one of the commanders of Nachtigall Battalion, a hauptmann of the German Schutzmannschaft 201 auxiliary police battalion, a military leader of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), and one of the organizers of the Galicia-Volhynia Massacres which resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths of Poles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shukhevych

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 832
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:55 pm 
 

Don't forget that they sometimes perform with a swastika in the background, as shown in the spoiler.

Spoiler: show
Image


EDIT: Turns out it isn't a swastika, but rather a sun wheel. Thanks for correcting the mistake.
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Last edited by Slater922 on Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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plagueofangels
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:58 pm
Posts: 196
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:55 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
They used to sell shirts commemorating a nazi murderer.

Roman-Taras Yosypovych Shukhevych (Ukrainian: Рома́н-Тарас Йо́сипович Шухе́вич), also known by his pseudonym Taras Chuprynka (June 30, 1907 – March 5, 1950), was a Ukrainian nationalist, one of the commanders of Nachtigall Battalion, a hauptmann of the German Schutzmannschaft 201 auxiliary police battalion, a military leader of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), and one of the organizers of the Galicia-Volhynia Massacres which resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths of Poles.
[/img]


As you might tell I'm legitimately clueless on this, so your actual knowledge on the subject is appreciated, but it still leaves unanswered questions. In the article you link, he allies with various different factions, later saves a Jewish lady and shoots himself to prevent death from the Soviet Union. Sounds more like a violent rebel than a genocidal maniac.

Our politics are very ignorant and binary in the comfort zone western Europe, we only see black and white (or left vs. right). But it's clear Шухе́вич wasn't just some flat out dedicated heretic determined on genocide. As far as Ukraine is concerned, he was a political freedom fighter. He even has his own minted coin, and you supplied that information with your own link.

So my point stands: how can HF be classed as a racist band.

Furthermore, I am legitimately not trying to stir up some kind of nonsense. My motivation is seeing HF being deplatformed online for little reason and I do not want a discussion that boils down to political bickering at all. But if this topic is out of bounds then I understand, as maybe this is a tougher subject than I anticipated to enter.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 10283
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:06 pm 
 

plagueofangels wrote:
So my point stands: how can HF be classed as a racist band.


acid_bukkake wrote:
Well, they have an EP called Aryosophia, which is a direct reference to the ideology that became National Sozialism, soooooo...

Speed Metal Terror wrote:
Wasn't this the band that issued the statement (paraphrasing):
"Any subhuman that buys our albums is only contributing to their own destruction." ?

Slater922 wrote:
Don't forget that they sometimes perform with a swastika in the background, as shown in the spoiler.

Spoiler: show
Image


You can say "Well this one random guy they memorialized on a t-shirt could mean different things to different people" but when you take it with the context of the Ariosophy shoutout and the sunwheel backdrop and whatnot, it seems like Occam's Razor is slicing the absolute fuck out of "they liked the Nazi part of that guy".

EDIT: According to people who know the band better than I do, it's more of a Burzum thing. Racist dudes making music that happens to not have racist themes.
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plagueofangels
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:58 pm
Posts: 196
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:07 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
Don't forget that they sometimes perform with a swastika in the background, as shown in the spoiler.


You're talking like they tour worldwide regularly with that image, haven't they played a handful of times to a tiny room of people? They obviously have some autonomous idea of the world and it's not like they're rich and can pick and choose their venues.

But still you're right, that's pretty bad. Maybe that picture alone motivated it.

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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
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Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:07 pm 
 

It seems like ages since there was a topic like this. I wonder if this one will boil down to they're all just rebellious punks.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 832
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:25 pm 
 

plagueofangels wrote:
Slater922 wrote:
Don't forget that they sometimes perform with a swastika in the background, as shown in the spoiler.


You're talking like they tour worldwide regularly with that image, haven't they played a handful of times to a tiny room of people? They obviously have some autonomous idea of the world and it's not like they're rich and can pick and choose their venues.

But still you're right, that's pretty bad. Maybe that picture alone motivated it.

I never said they used that backdrop all the time in their shows. Hence, why I put the word "sometimes" in that sentence. Still, if they aren't a racist band, they shouldn't use that backdrop at all.
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raumr
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1860
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:26 pm 
 

Not that it makes any practical difference, but I'd be more comfortable labeling them Nazis (or at the very least Nazi sympathizers) than white supremacist. I know they are often synonyms in modern usage, but they're not really the same. They're hailing someone who killed Poles (who are white). Same goes for Nazi Germany, they might have been implicitly white supremacist, but ultimately they killed mostly white Europeans in a racial war of extermination. "White" was obviously not the category they identified with, bur rather German/Aryan/Nordic.

And just to give another example, the US in the 1940s was a white supremacist state, but obviously not a Nazi state.

I'm happy to label Hate Forest as NSBM. It fits them even if we don't have lyrics explicitly endorsing the ideology. All the evidence surrounding them speak for itself.

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plagueofangels
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:58 pm
Posts: 196
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:30 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
but when you take it with the context of the Ariosophy shoutout and the sunwheel backdrop and whatnot, it seems like Occam's Razor is slicing the absolute fuck out of "they liked the Nazi part of that guy".

I'm ignorant and wouldn't have even known the concept of ariosophy if you haven't mentioned it. To me Hate Forest is just about insanely great music and has never meant or encouraged any racist message to me.

If they were really, absolutely genuinely committed to a racist concept, they would be tattooing those stupid nazi runes all over their CD art and on themselves. That would be the point. If you're going to be legit genocidal, you don't just buy a pay as you go plan, it's a lifetime subscription. And how are you going to be a genocidal band anyway?

My point is that they have plenty of wild and crazy messages but most of them are typical to black metal. They may flirt with themes of atrocity but isn't that the point of being in an extreme metal band?

Also I'm obviously out of my depth. bye

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Metantoine
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:30 pm 
 

raumr and BH are right. They may not have explicity racist/NS lyrics but it's obvious where Roman stands as far as politics go, it's not hidden or even thinly veiled.

From The Most Ancient Ones release:
Spoiler: show
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doomicus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 5:58 am
Posts: 719
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:33 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
Don't forget that they sometimes perform with a swastika in the background, as shown in the spoiler.
Spoiler: show
Image

That isn't a swastika.

As for this thread and the question posed. The members of the band absolutely carry sketchy beliefs and affiliations that put them into the NS category. The music itself and lyrical content is not related in that none of it really taken on its own is about supremacy ect. Short version being: Music/lyrics = Nothing wrong here, members of the project = covered in an awful lot of supremacist NS shit willfully.

As a long time fan of the music, and Roman's other projects I'll personally continue to listen to Hate Forest, but I definitely understand and am not going to offer up any resistance to them being yanked from widely available streaming services and the like. If you're going to associate yourself heavily in this sort of dogma, as well as perpetuate it, there should be no surprise when there are (rightfully) consequences for it.
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Last edited by doomicus on Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1860
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:37 pm 
 

plagueofangels wrote:
BastardHead wrote:
but when you take it with the context of the Ariosophy shoutout and the sunwheel backdrop and whatnot, it seems like Occam's Razor is slicing the absolute fuck out of "they liked the Nazi part of that guy".

I'm ignorant and wouldn't have even known the concept of ariosophy if you haven't mentioned it. To me Hate Forest is just about insanely great music and has never meant or encouraged any racist message to me.

If they were really, absolutely genuinely committed to a racist concept, they would be tattooing those stupid nazi runes all over their CD art and on themselves. That would be the point. If you're going to be legit genocidal, you don't just buy a pay as you go plan, it's a lifetime subscription. And how are you going to be a genocidal band anyway?

My point is that they have plenty of wild and crazy messages but most of them are typical to black metal. They may flirt with themes of atrocity but isn't that the point of being in an extreme metal band?

Also I'm obviously out of my depth. bye

Trust me, I sympathize with your position. I am a Hate Forest fan myself, but I also think we should be informed consumers. It could be that it's all show, just playing with NS imagery as "part of the package", but we can't read their minds can we? We should be honest about who these people are and their connection, and then decide if we want to give them our money.

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5859
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:39 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
EDIT: According to people who know the band better than I do, it's more of a Burzum thing. Racist dudes making music that happens to not have racist themes.

This is the crux of it.

Here's the thing about a lot of these bands; it may not be obvious that they support NS, racist or white supremacist values in their music, but you often have all the telltale signs that something is up; that if they quack like a duck, look like a duck, and walk like a duck, they're probably a duck. There's a lot of those red flags with Hate Forest; talk about "purity", "patriotism", Nietzsche, Aryan thought, and all the other wild ideas and concepts used to support National Socialism, racism and white supremacism without outright saying it. The band hasn't tried to hide how they feel and what they believe, you can tell in what they've said, what they've done, how they act, the symbols they use, the type of people they actively try to appeal to. That's how a band like this can be viewed as white supremacist. Admittedly, and I agree, it's common with metal - especially black metal - for bands like this to exist, though I suspect people, particularly younger people, are growing more inclined to question these norms and are less willing to tolerate them.
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:16 pm 
 

I think that one of their EPs has an SS unit in the "thanks" too, never seen the exact quote but it is claimed a bunch on the intertubes.

At any rate yeah, not a band really promoting racism lyrically or whatever, but one where the dude behind it is sketch as fuck and a bunch of associated material around it is also sketch.

Personally I can look past that pretty easily, unless the songs themselves are actively yelling at me to praise Hitler and gas the Jews my listening experience isn't really affected, I won't BUY shit from them and give him money, but I'm comfortable enough saying they're one of my top 20 bands or whatever. Draw your line where you like, just like, be aware I suppose.
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Morrigan
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Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:35 pm 
 

plagueofangels wrote:
If they were really, absolutely genuinely committed to a racist concept, they would be tattooing those stupid nazi runes all over their CD art and on themselves. That would be the point. If you're going to be legit genocidal, you don't just buy a pay as you go plan, it's a lifetime subscription.

That's not how this works. Ever head of dog whistles?

Many nazis and white supremacists know that being a nazi is not socially acceptable, so they try to couch their ideology into more palatable terminology to disseminate their ideas. It's nothing new at all.

Moreover, NSBM bands and labels looooove to try and whitewash their page here on M-A. Got into many spats with those fuckwits, who had NS symbols all over their albums, albums full of lyrics about slaughtering non-whites etc., try and tell us that they aren't NS, "we're not political", blah blah blah. And when we say no, they typically throw tantrums instead of owning up to their shit. They are nazis and want to be nazis, but they want to avoid those pesky consequences...

Quote:
Also I'm obviously out of my depth. bye

Clearly.

lord_ghengis wrote:
I think that one of their EPs has an SS unit in the "thanks" too, never seen the exact quote but it is claimed a bunch on the intertubes.

https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/H ... tabs_notes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waff ... t_Galician)
Yep. Cover art too.
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Vadara
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:37 pm 
 

This place has discussed NSBM probably too many times, but honestly, I want to know why exactly nazis latched onto BM and nigh-exclusively BM. Like, NSDM isn't a thing. There's no scene out there making NS Slam (though frankly it's both a genre braindead enough to be fitting for nazis and half the dudes into it act like probably-racist 4channers anyway; and yes, before you post one random BDM/Slam band with "racism" in their lyrics on MA, I'm sure SOMEONE out there has done it. But there isn't a SCENE of people doing it). Was it literally just Varg being racist, so his fellow racists started making BM, and there's nothing else to it (making NSBM more a historical accident than any specific and intentional scene)?

That has to be it frankly, Nazis tend to just swoop into something one of them forced themselves into and never just do something because they earnestly like it.

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Turner
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:46 pm 
 

I'm sure there are NSDM bands or NSPM etc etc, but my guess is that because BM takes itself so much more seriously than other genres, and markets itself (outright or otherwise) as "outsider music", it attracts way more people who gravitate towards fringe ideologies. Same as how Nazi punk was a thing for a while - that genre, like bm, also attracts EXTREEM vegans and straight edge types. Not sure where that started, although my guess is guys like Varg and Fenriz declaring black metal some kind of ideological anti-death metal in the early 90s, because bands like Obituary and Malevolent Creation wore shorts. Not so much Varg's own views (although that would have helped it along), but the kickstarter was the "this is serious, mum!" aspect of BM.

As an aside, nothing says "stickin' it to the man!" like Scandinavians accusing Floridians of selling out for wearing shorts. haha.

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tomcat_ha
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:59 pm 
 

I wonder however if they are still NS. The new albums theme seems to be based around steppe cultures and nazis from eastern europe are generally very much racist against these peoples.

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BleedingMoon
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:37 pm
Posts: 60
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:23 pm 
 

Hold up, Reddit has only just twigged on to the fact that HF is racist?
I thought this was a well known fact for years.

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Osore
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
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Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:46 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
bm also attracts EXTREEM straight edge types
You cought me, but where are the other straight edge people?

On topic: if a band has Nazi symbolism and whatnot, don't support them (financially), it's very simple, we don't have to go inside their heads when the art is already stained.

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:26 am 
 

For the dolts trying to argue that a sunwheel isn't a swastika, or that playing in front of one doesn't mean you're racist, here's a much more straightforward example for you:

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:04 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
For the dolts trying to argue that a sunwheel isn't a swastika, or that playing in front of one doesn't mean you're racist, here's a much more straightforward example for you:

I can't believe this was out there the whole time and I didn't know about it until now. It would have saved me a ton of time explaining to people why these assholes are downright nazis.

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Bishop_Drugsalot
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:48 pm 
 

BleedingMoon wrote:
Hold up, Reddit has only just twigged on to the fact that HF is racist?
I thought this was a well known fact for years.

It was but only in recent times has it become a pastime for people of the internets

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aloof
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:59 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
For the dolts trying to argue that a sunwheel isn't a swastika, or that playing in front of one doesn't mean you're racist, here's a much more straightforward example for you:
Spoiler: show


can smn tell me what exactly I am looking for in this vid? not a fan of HF and I dont want to endure 12mins of lousy footage and sound... not trolling, genuinely :)
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Morn Of Solace
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:02 pm 
 

The fact that they had a drum programmer nicknamed Adolf is the Cherry on top of the shit cake. Where is that "how to recognize an NS band" manual that was here on april's fools? :lol:

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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:08 pm 
 

aloof wrote:
can smn tell me what exactly I am looking for in this vid? not a fan of HF and I dont want to endure 12mins of lousy footage and sound... not trolling, genuinely :)


I managed to miss it at first glance because I was looking at the backdrop. It's the nazi version of the invisible gorilla illusion.

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aloof
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:19 pm 
 

s**t. super embarassed now :/ yes, i was waiting for a salute or chant or sthg... not gaffer tape on the kick drum :/
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:22 pm 
 

Just in case anyone else missed it:

Image

Spoiler: show
Just joking, not accusing Aloof of anything.

Morn Of Solace wrote:
The fact that they had a drum programmer nicknamed Adolf is the Cherry on top of the shit cake. Where is that "how to recognize an NS band" manual that was here on april's fools? :lol:

Didn't know this either. You can't make this shit up.

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asmfc
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:24 am
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:47 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Just in case anyone else missed it:

Image

Spoiler: show
Just joking, not accusing Aloof of anything.

Morn Of Solace wrote:
The fact that they had a drum programmer nicknamed Adolf is the Cherry on top of the shit cake. Where is that "how to recognize an NS band" manual that was here on april's fools? :lol:

Didn't know this either. You can't make this shit up.


Clearly not Nazi, it has to be tilted. This is a witch hunt.

This was so hard to see before you pointed it out and now I can't unsee it

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Dhalgren_
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Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:09 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:25 pm 
 

plagueofangels wrote:
If they were really, absolutely genuinely committed to a racist concept, they would be tattooing those stupid nazi runes all over their CD art and on themselves. That would be the point. If you're going to be legit genocidal, you don't just buy a pay as you go plan, it's a lifetime subscription. And how are you going to be a genocidal band anyway?


So your argument essentially is that a band can't be a bunch of nazis unless they tattoo swastikas all over their bodies?

That's a pretty narrow definition of a nazi...

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camjr01
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 10:34 pm
Posts: 97
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:49 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
aloof wrote:
can smn tell me what exactly I am looking for in this vid? not a fan of HF and I dont want to endure 12mins of lousy footage and sound... not trolling, genuinely :)


I managed to miss it at first glance because I was looking at the backdrop. It's the nazi version of the invisible gorilla illusion.


I know it's off topic but what is the invisible gorilla illusion? I'm legit super interested in finding out what this is.

And by the way, I think I've seen more than enough bad imagery in this thread to figure out that they're closeted racists at the minimum, that much is obvious at this point. I cringe whenever people cower at phony charges of racism (for instance, in Oregon a school district is hesitating to make an evergreen tree the school's mascot because black people were lynched on evergreen trees), but this is legit and it makes sense. As for the music being pulled off every service, that honestly sucks though and it brings up situations about freedom of expression. First off, we've established that a lot of their music isn't openly racist, so why did it have to get pulled down? Varg Vikernes is racist, and a murderer, and has done tons more horrible things, yet the Burzum discography is basically free of racism and extreme violence and it's up everywhere as it should be. From my understanding, Hate Forest is only slightly worse than Burzum in this regard because so much of it is subliminal, so why isn't it getting the Burzum treatment? Yes, the band members are up to a ton of horrible behavior, but the music doesn't seem too bad (based on what I'm seeing in this thread, I've never heard of this band before).

There's another thing to think about with situations like this in general: if we pull all the horrible racist music off the internet, we just won't know what it looks like anymore. That's BAD, because then we loose a ton of examples of what NOT TO DO. I remember there was this song that went pretty viral on YouTube years ago called "Alabama N*gg*r"- everyone got it was racist, that the song was immoral, and people were memeing it because it sucked and everyone was trying to be edgy. It's the same reason why there were also 9/11 memes, because it was edgy because the original thing getting memed was horrible, and the internet got to reflect on how much both those things sucked. Nowadays YouTube has taken down or buried all the "Alabama N*gg*r" videos, so future generations will never get how horrible racist music like that is. If we pull every racist thing off the internet (instead of just criticizing it, and making our own content that explains why racism is bad), there will be no direct examples of racism left to show people who have never seen racism and might not understand why we should not engage in it.
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:06 pm 
 

camjr01 wrote:
I know it's off topic but what is the invisible gorilla illusion? I'm legit super interested in finding out what this is.


Spoiler: show


As for the rest of your post: I don't know how to feel about removing music that, in a vacuum, has no racist content purely because it was made by racists. I personally choose not to support those artists myself but there's a part of me that feels icky about burying art with no political message because the artist happens to have egregiously hateful political beliefs. At the end of the day I don't care that much about it because it doesn't mean much either way, but it's a tricky topic that catches on a contradiction in my own beliefs that I haven't exactly sorted out yet, so it's whatever to me.

On the second paragraph though: deplatforming works and is cool and good. The idea that we need racism to not only exist but allowed to be platformed and shared freely in order to point at it and say "this is bad" is hilarious to me. What's the endgame there? If the ultimate goal is some post-racial utopia where nobody is racist anymore, we wouldn't need to keep racism around anymore, so the end result would just be deplatforming and erasing the racist shit anyway, no? This bit in particular:

camjr01 wrote:
I remember there was this song that went pretty viral on YouTube years ago called "Alabama N*gg*r"- everyone got it was racist, that the song was immoral, and people were memeing it because it sucked and everyone was trying to be edgy. It's the same reason why there were also 9/11 memes, because it was edgy because the original thing getting memed was horrible, and the internet got to reflect on how much both those things sucked.


cracks me up. If people need memes to understand why lynchings and 9/11 are bad then holy fuck go outside.
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doomicus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:07 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Just in case anyone else missed it:

Image


:lol: The best thing about this is that someone out there, will definitely try to defend this as being related to Hinduism and ignore any and all damning context that Hate Forest surround themselves with, unironically. Too accurate.
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Last edited by doomicus on Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Slater922
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:11 pm 
 

doomicus wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
Just in case anyone else missed it:

Image


:lol: The best thing about this is that someone out there, will definitely try to defend this as being related to Hinduism and ignore any and all damning context that Hate forest surround themselves with, unironically. Too accurate.

Has there actually been a case where someone looked at a NSBM album with a Nazi swastika and thought "oH No tHeY MuSt bE PrOmOtInG HiNdUiSm!"?
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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:22 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
doomicus wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
Just in case anyone else missed it:

Image


:lol: The best thing about this is that someone out there, will definitely try to defend this as being related to Hinduism and ignore any and all damning context that Hate forest surround themselves with, unironically. Too accurate.

Has there actually been a case where someone looked at a NSBM album with a Nazi swastika and thought "oH No tHeY MuSt bE PrOmOtInG HiNdUiSm!"?

I'm nor sure but if there's something I've learned from metalheads is that there's no limit to the mental gymnastics one can do to avoid feeling even a tiny bit of cognitive dissonance.

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Derigin
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:49 pm 
 

Festival is also called Kolovorot Fest, which is likely referring to Kolovrat, the spinning wheel swastika.
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