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tahu157
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:28 pm 
 

Eddie Van Halen's Eruption is the song that popularized tapping as we know it, and the song's influence on rock and metal guitar has been enormous. But, what if I Eddie Van Halen never wrote the song? I have a few hypothetical questions about that scenario:

- Does someone else come along and popularize tapping eventually? If so, who, and how much later than 1978 would that have happened?

- If a song doesn't popularize tapping until much later than 1978, does it have as profound an impact on guitar player as Eruption did?

- Which iconic songs wouldn't have been written, or would have been written very differently, if there was no Eruption?

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:53 pm 
 

Most things that EVH did were already being done by Blackmore, and better (listen to some live Rainbow from the mid 70s).

I kind of think someone would have come along and done something similar though. EVH wasn't the only guy out there shredding.

I do wonder just how big the hair metal scene would have gotten without Van Halen in general though. The main problem with VH1 is that it was the first album to really prioritise technical style and flashy playing over substance and songwriting, so interesting to speculate how music might have developed otherwise.

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Luvers
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:03 pm 
 

tahu157 wrote:
Eddie Van Halen's Eruption is the song that popularized tapping as we know it, and the song's influence on rock and metal guitar has been enormous. But, what if I Eddie Van Halen never wrote the song? I have a few hypothetical questions about that scenario:

- Does someone else come along and popularize tapping eventually? If so, who, and how much later than 1978 would that have happened?

- If a song doesn't popularize tapping until much later than 1978, does it have as profound an impact on guitar player as Eruption did?

- Which iconic songs wouldn't have been written, or would have been written very differently, if there was no Eruption?
Rock And Roll Machine by Triumph, especially the international rerecording.

Despite this track being credited to just the drummer/singer, it is known for its legendary four minute guitar solo, in which guitarist extraordinaire Rik Emmett performs all of the same two handed tapping techniques popularized three years later by Eddie Van Halen on Eruption.
Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Most things that EVH did were already being done by Blackmore, and better (listen to some live Rainbow from the mid 70s).

I do wonder just how big the hair metal scene would have gotten without Van Halen in general though. The main problem with VH1 is that it was the first album to really prioritise technical style and flashy playing over substance and songwriting, so interesting to speculate how music might have developed otherwise.
Van Halen was obviously influential on that scene but I would say glam/hair metal was profoundly influenced by Aldo Nova's first two albums, he was the leading pioneer of that entire pop metal style at the time and it predates every hair metal artist in existence.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:07 pm 
 

Are you saying as if EVH still existed and had all the other songs, just as if that particular track was never written? The rollout of it might have been slower, but that's far from the only song he wrote with tapping in it. There are numerous other tracks on the debut album that also have tapping sections, and many more throughout their career. "Spanish Fly" on the second album, just a year later, is basically "Eruption" on a classical guitar, for example. And without "Eruption" on the debut, he might have felt the need for a stronger statement on that album, so maybe "Spanish Fly" or a modification of it would have been electric, or he wrote some other song in its stead. There are so many butterfly effects from this hypothetical that it's difficult to say. The technique of tapping already existed in a more limited form from other guitarists, and with the proliferation of higher gain amps and the spectacle of the guitar solo ratcheting up from the 70s into the 80s, it's hard to fathom a world in which it still didn't become part of every guitarist's arsenal of the period and beyond.

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
The main problem with VH1 is that it was the first album to really prioritise technical style and flashy playing over substance and songwriting


It's funny that you say that, because the average rock fan probably can hear half of the songs in their head instantly if you mention the track names. If that isn't songwriting, I'm not sure what is.

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Coastliner
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:34 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
The main problem with VH1 is that it was the first album to really prioritise technical style and flashy playing over substance and songwriting


It's funny that you say that, because the average rock fan probably can hear half of the songs in their head instantly if you mention the track names. If that isn't songwriting, I'm not sure what is.


Agreed. Instead of saying "the first album to really prioritise technical style and flashy playing over substance and songwriting", one could quote some rock journalist (I've forgotten who it was) who said that Van Halen were the first hard rock band that tried to steer clear of the blues. Bluesy moments, e.g. "Take your Whisky Home", were parodies rather than the real thing. The traditional foundation was gone or reduced to a joke. Maybe that's why some people think "flash > substance".
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:39 pm 
 

I don't think I've ever felt quite so underwhelmed by an album as I was when I first heard VH1. The reviews and critical opinions made me think it was going to be this awesome balls to the wall hard rock album, and it's just so lightweight for the most part. It's just not got much to it really. I can remember most of the songs, but it does seem more about the playing and attitude than anything else.

I know it gets cited as a prime example of good time hard rock, but TBH there's AC/DC for that - better riffs, harder sound, just better songs really.

(As you can tell, I'm not a VH fan. That said, at least the DLR era had a sense of humour and was entertaining to some degree, with the odd good song here and there. Van Hagar, on the other hand, is some of the worst music of all time).

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PeteGas
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:49 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I don't think I've ever felt quite so underwhelmed by an album as I was when I first heard VH1. The reviews and critical opinions made me think it was going to be this awesome balls to the wall hard rock album, and it's just so lightweight for the most part. It's just not got much to it really. I can remember most of the songs, but it does seem more about the playing and attitude than anything else.

I know it gets cited as a prime example of good time hard rock, but TBH there's AC/DC for that - better riffs, harder sound, just better songs really.

(As you can tell, I'm not a VH fan. That said, at least the DLR era had a sense of humour and was entertaining to some degree, with the odd good song here and there. Van Hagar, on the other hand, is some of the worst music of all time).


???? I’m the One? On Fire? Atomic Punk? Ain’t Talkin Bout Love? That shit cranks for 1978. It might sound a bit light I suppose cos all the guitar is in one channel but his tone was nasty and the drums hit like cannon shots. Just turn up the stereo a bit.

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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:52 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I don't think I've ever felt quite so underwhelmed by an album as I was when I first heard VH1. The reviews and critical opinions made me think it was going to be this awesome balls to the wall hard rock album, and it's just so lightweight for the most part. It's just not got much to it really. I can remember most of the songs, but it does seem more about the playing and attitude for the most part.

I know it gets cited as a prime example of good time hard rock, but TBH there's AC/DC for that - better riffs, harder sound, just better songs really.

They were one of the last classic bands for me to get into (only the last 5 or so years), probably because growing up it was just "Jump" and the Hagar years that I was really exposed too. The Rock radio station plays the shit out of Panama, Hot For Teacher and Running With The Devil so they eventually got me. My only regret is not getting into them earlier.

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:01 pm 
 

I can see why VH made a splash in 1978, but I first heard them about 25 years later, and what seemed revelatory back then seemed rather mundane in the early 2000s.

The other possible issue is that I'm not from the US - VH always seem to me to be a quintessentially American band, and I get the impression that discovering their records when one is getting into music is a kind of rite of passage in North America akin to getting into AC/DC if you're Australian. It sounds silly, but I think they're a band that seems to be more of a cultural touchstone for Americans, and if one comes to them from outside that culture then some of that connection is lost. Basically if I'd grown up going to beach parties in California I'd probably like them a lot more, as it is I don't feel the need to listen to VH1 when something like Let There Be Rock beats it on every level in terms of riffs, songs and attitude.

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ZomGolTo
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:10 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I can see why VH made a splash in 1978, but I first heard them about 25 years later, and what seemed revelatory back then seemed rather mundane in the early 2000s.


I think I picked up a copy of VH1 in 05 or so. At the time a lot of my friends and family had pooh pooh'd them. My brother (who was a teen in the 90's) wrote it off as 80's fluff, my dad didn't consider them a "serious" band. In high school, when metalcore was really at its peak, it was dismissed as not hard/heavy enough. So I really didn't know if Van Halen would be good or what when I listened to it for the first time.

God damn, that debut is FUN! All the songs are catchy; they're all bangers; and they just make you smile. It sounds like a band just enjoying the hell out of playing and recording. Are they my favorite hard rock band? Nope. VHII is way spottier in my opinion, and the songs aren't there as much. But man what a great record that debut is.

Afterwards my mom told me she once spent an afternoon catering to Eddie at Guitar Center in LA when he was buying some guitars to give away as promos on tour in the early 80's.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:15 pm 
 

Coastliner wrote:
one could quote some rock journalist (I've forgotten who it was) who said that Van Halen were the first hard rock band that tried to steer clear of the blues.


I don't think that's really true at all. Eric Clapton was one of EVH's biggest influences, and his playing is essentially mixing a much higher octane version of that with classical. There's a ton of swing all over their tracks, numerous ones are outright boogie shuffles. "Ice Cream Man" is basically a 12-bar blues on steroids. It's the metal bands that start excising the blues influence from their sound. By the time you get to someone like Slayer it's pretty much completely absent.

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I know it gets cited as a prime example of good time hard rock, but TBH there's AC/DC for that - better riffs, harder sound, just better songs really.


I get the point, and AC/DC is a band that just never clicked for me, probably as VH never clicked for you. But the only thing harder about AC/DC is the vocals. EVH has a heavier, more distorted sound, and they have many more fast, driving songs. AC/DC rarely goes faster than mid-paced. You may have a point about the US vs. elsewhere, particularly Australia, since AC/DC is from there. They've been huge here forever too though.

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I can see why VH made a splash in 1978, but I first heard them about 25 years later, and what seemed revelatory back then seemed rather mundane in the early 2000s.


Well, it's kind of like the "Seinfeld is unfunny" trope. There's now been 40+ years of guitar music since then, a great deal of which has been influenced by it indirectly if not outright directly. He's probably the most significant player since Hendrix, and no one since him has had as much of an impact on rock guitar as a whole. The OP makes a big deal about tapping, but that was only a small part of his legacy. There's so much more, his tone, rhythm playing, chords, mixing lead and rhythm, applying Holdsworthian linear scales, usage of whammy, harmonics, it's a complete package of guitar playing. Not even to touch on Alex's drumming, their vocal harmonies, DLR as a frontman, etc.

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Coastliner
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:11 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Coastliner wrote:
one could quote some rock journalist (I've forgotten who it was) who said that Van Halen were the first hard rock band that tried to steer clear of the blues.


I don't think that's really true at all. Eric Clapton was one of EVH's biggest influences, and his playing is essentially mixing a much higher octane version of that with classical. There's a ton of swing all over their tracks, numerous ones are outright boogie shuffles. "Ice Cream Man" is basically a 12-bar blues on steroids.


I said: "Bluesy moments, e.g. 'Take your Whisky Home', were parodies rather than the real thing," i.e. yes, there was blues but it was there in a way that broke the mould. They were, of course, a hard rock band, and there is no hard rock without the noticeable presence of the blues. It comes with the territory. In contrast to their peers, they veered off in all sorts of directions though, trying to develop a new kind of hard rock where the blues weren't / wasn't the be-all and end-all.

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
It's the metal bands that start excising the blues influence from their sound. By the time you get to someone like Slayer it's pretty much completely absent.


They could do that e.g. by giving more weight to their influence from classical music, similar to what you're saying about Van Halen. I don't think we're poles apart.

Due to the fact that the Van Halen brothers were self-taught and not bound to any formula, one could also argue that they had lots of additional influences that were hard to pin down, presumably from Middle or South American music (especially rhythmically). In that respect they were distant hard rock (i.e. + blues) cousins of Yes.
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GOOFAM
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:24 am 
 

Coastliner wrote:
Due to the fact that the Van Halen brothers were self-taught and not bound to any formula, one could also argue that they had lots of additional influences that were hard to pin down, presumably from Middle or South American music (especially rhythmically). In that respect they were distant hard rock (i.e. + blues) cousins of Yes.


Yeah, I remember DLR commenting on this as well.

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Eric Clapton was one of EVH's biggest influences, and his playing is essentially mixing a much higher octane version of that with classical. There's a ton of swing all over their tracks, numerous ones are outright boogie shuffles. "Ice Cream Man" is basically a 12-bar blues on steroids. It's the metal bands that start excising the blues influence from their sound. By the time you get to someone like Slayer it's pretty much completely absent.


I think this is one of those things where if you look at a red-orange plate next to a red plate, it looks very orange, and if you look at it next to an orange plate, it seems to obviously be red. In reality, of course, it's sort of both and sort of neither. EVH's playing, under a microscope, comes off somewhat bluesy if you put it up against what most mainstream rock/metal artists were doing 20 years later in rock, grunge, nu-metal, power metal, etc., and in many cases even a decade later (glam metal/thrash metal), for the reasons you cited. But while that flavor exists in his playing, it doesn't define it in the way that it defines Iommi or Ace Frehley or Jimmy Page or even someone like Glenn Tipton. As someone born in 1990, I hear any of those guys, and I instantly think "this is a relic of that blues-influenced era." Van Halen, partially due to that particular classical/speed fusion and partially due to a radically different tone/production from what came before, really represents something different, though it certainly was itself innovated on almost immediately. And I'm not even much of a VH fan; don't really know the catalog well, but that's how it's always struck me. Maybe I'm out of my depth, just my two cents. I'm sure there are songs where the blues influence comes through stronger, but at least on what I know it's just kind of mixed-in/disguised enough to represent one of the first fully "rock" sounds. I do think the tone's role in really separating it can't go overstated, though.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:33 pm 
 

My point is that they did not "steer clear" of the blues. They embraced it, but had many other influences as well. And they were far from the first hard rock band to incorporate non-blues elements. Deep Purple, Queen, King Crimson, Scorpions, Jeff Beck, and many others were experimenting with other flavors long before VH was.

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idunnosomename
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:10 pm 
 

a lot of why style progresses is due to taking advantage of technology rather than sheer innovation. you couldn't travel back in time and play a decent version of Eruption in 1970. overdrive and guitar action wouldn't be good enough. well, at least that's what I reckon, I don't know enough about EVH's kit in the late 70s to know for sure.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:37 pm 
 

There's a lot of voodoo and misdirection about his early rigs, but it's basically a hot-rodded Marshall, and getting the phaser and reverb/delay settings right. It wouldn't be quite the same, but you could theoretically have come closer earlier. The unaccompanied solo in Led Zeppelin's "Heartbreaker" is basically the "Eruption" of its day.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:41 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
The main problem with VH1 is that it was the first album to really prioritise technical style and flashy playing over substance and songwriting


It's funny that you say that, because the average rock fan probably can hear half of the songs in their head instantly if you mention the track names. If that isn't songwriting, I'm not sure what is.


Yeah old Van Halen was up there with any of the classics for pure song-craft along with technical ability. Golden charisma and voice.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:38 am 
 

tahu157 wrote:
Eddie Van Halen's Eruption is the song that popularized tapping as we know it, and the song's influence on rock and metal guitar has been enormous. But, what if I Eddie Van Halen never wrote the song? I have a few hypothetical questions about that scenario:

- Does someone else come along and popularize tapping eventually? If so, who, and how much later than 1978 would that have happened?

- If a song doesn't popularize tapping until much later than 1978, does it have as profound an impact on guitar player as Eruption did?

- Which iconic songs wouldn't have been written, or would have been written very differently, if there was no Eruption?


Just about every guitarist I read about (the Blackmore and Malmsteen types aside) talk to their immense debt to Eddie van Halen, even if only tangentially via one of their direct influences - I wonder if guitar music would still be the preserve of beardy men playing blues/folk rock/Pink Floyd-type stuff, and as someone above mentions, and the whole big-hair-spandex-party side of things never takes off.
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CoconutBackwards
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:38 am 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Most things that EVH did were already being done by Blackmore, and better (listen to some live Rainbow from the mid 70s).

I kind of think someone would have come along and done something similar though. EVH wasn't the only guy out there shredding.

I do wonder just how big the hair metal scene would have gotten without Van Halen in general though. The main problem with VH1 is that it was the first album to really prioritise technical style and flashy playing over substance and songwriting, so interesting to speculate how music might have developed otherwise.


I disagree with just about everything you’ve said here.

Blackmore may have been doing similar things, but he sure as shit wasn’t doing them better.

Also, “technical style and flash over substance and songwriting” is ridiculous to say, IMO. The first Van Halen album is littered with catchy guitar parts, vocal harmonies and choruses. “I’m the One” has a “shoo-wop” breakdown. Maybe, it’s just how I interpret what you said, but all the people that say Eddie was just some flashy player who knew a ton of scales, but had no feel is just completely wrong.

*spelling
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:48 am 
 

Perhaps, but I think there's a direct line from the first VH album to the hair metal shredders of the 80s and even bands like Trivium etc nowadays. EVH may indeed have been a much more subtle and complex player/songwriter as you say, but I think a lot of people listened to VH1 and were so impressed by the technicality and guitar wizardry that a lot of bands afterwards gained the impression that technical skill and complex guitar playing was the best way to gain people's attention rather than actual songwriting.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:56 am 
 

As others have said, Van Halen wasn't JUST Eddie, and Eddie wasn't JUST Eruption - it was his whole blend of technical wizardry, creative ingenuity, and a sleazy, ballsy attitude that made him what he was, and Van Halen itself wouldn't have done quite as well if it wasn't for David Lee Roth's charisma and showmanship, Alex's own technical ability and attitude, and even Michael Anthony's harmonies. Eruption was influential, but tapping would have taken off either way (probably through George Lynch or Steve Lynch, who had both started using it around the same time), and Van Halen had all the right ingredients to succeed even without that song.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:01 am 
 

I heard the Van Halen debut years ago and liked it OK but initially did think what Cosmic thought - just felt too lightweight for my tastes at that time, but that was because I was uneducated and looking for a harder more metal type of sound. Listening to that album and their others these days, I can hear genuine amazing craftsmanship and songwriting that go way beyond just some poppier band or whatever. Even on their silliest, most radio friendly songs in those days, they jam a shitload of complexity and real feeling and soul in. Outstanding band.
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CoconutBackwards
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:52 am 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I don't think I've ever felt quite so underwhelmed by an album as I was when I first heard VH1. The reviews and critical opinions made me think it was going to be this awesome balls to the wall hard rock album, and it's just so lightweight for the most part. It's just not got much to it really. I can remember most of the songs, but it does seem more about the playing and attitude for the most part.

I know it gets cited as a prime example of good time hard rock, but TBH there's AC/DC for that - better riffs, harder sound, just better songs really.

They were one of the last classic bands for me to get into (only the last 5 or so years), probably because growing up it was just "Jump" and the Hagar years that I was really exposed too. The Rock radio station plays the shit out of Panama, Hot For Teacher and Running With The Devil so they eventually got me. My only regret is not getting into them earlier.


I was obsessed with them in my teenage years, but I only really knew the hits from the Roth era. I never deep dove into the Roth albums.

Eddie died and since then I've been listening NON-STOP.

I used to not really have a pony in the Roth VS Hagar debate, but after going back through all those classic albums (and realizing how stupid I was for not dissecting them when I was younger) it's not even close for me anymore.

I don't even have any interest in listening to the Hagar era anymore. I'm sure it'll even out a little more once this obsession runs its course, but for now I want only Roth era all the time.
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idunnosomename
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:28 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
There's a lot of voodoo and misdirection about his early rigs, but it's basically a hot-rodded Marshall, and getting the phaser and reverb/delay settings right. It wouldn't be quite the same, but you could theoretically have come closer earlier. The unaccompanied solo in Led Zeppelin's "Heartbreaker" is basically the "Eruption" of its day.
oh yes totally, and I recall Page often had it so high he could play bits of of it with no picking?

It is kind of bringing together the technology to execute it perfectly that was his genius. yes Billy Gibbons did tapped notes in 1973, and so did Genesis, and Blackmore does those sort of muted sweeps in Kill the King, but Eddie is the first to all pull these ideas together into a big showy cadenza and really kick off a whole new style.

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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:11 pm 
 

CoconutBackwards wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
I don't think I've ever felt quite so underwhelmed by an album as I was when I first heard VH1. The reviews and critical opinions made me think it was going to be this awesome balls to the wall hard rock album, and it's just so lightweight for the most part. It's just not got much to it really. I can remember most of the songs, but it does seem more about the playing and attitude for the most part.

I know it gets cited as a prime example of good time hard rock, but TBH there's AC/DC for that - better riffs, harder sound, just better songs really.

They were one of the last classic bands for me to get into (only the last 5 or so years), probably because growing up it was just "Jump" and the Hagar years that I was really exposed too. The Rock radio station plays the shit out of Panama, Hot For Teacher and Running With The Devil so they eventually got me. My only regret is not getting into them earlier.


I was obsessed with them in my teenage years, but I only really knew the hits from the Roth era. I never deep dove into the Roth albums.

Eddie died and since then I've been listening NON-STOP.

I used to not really have a pony in the Roth VS Hagar debate, but after going back through all those classic albums (and realizing how stupid I was for not dissecting them when I was younger) it's not even close for me anymore.

I don't even have any interest in listening to the Hagar era anymore. I'm sure it'll even out a little more once this obsession runs its course, but for now I want only Roth era all the time.

Yeah the Hagar era does nothing for me. Roth had so much more character and presence.

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ZenoMarx
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:25 pm 
 

If you can't enjoy listening to Van Halen, you suck at listening to music.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:19 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
CoconutBackwards wrote:
I don't even have any interest in listening to the Hagar era anymore. I'm sure it'll even out a little more once this obsession runs its course, but for now I want only Roth era all the time.

Yeah the Hagar era does nothing for me. Roth had so much more character and presence.


I'm definitely an outlier in my frontman opinions. I never cared for DLR, his voice or his bravado. But I get why other people like him. And VH's songwriting is the most consistently memorable in this period. Hager is a better vocalist and decent enough entertainer, but never connected with me. The material is more uneven with him, but there are some gems like "Judgment Day", "Humans Being", "Good Enough", the piano work in "Right Now", etc. My favorite of the three is Cherone, and I really would have liked to see another album after they had more time to gel. As it was his performance was uneven, a bit too much experimenting and other times trying to consciously mimic Hagar rather than port his stylings from Extreme over. But VHIII, for all its problems, is criminally underrated and has some great moments like "Fire in the Hole" and "Once". I think it would have gone over much better if it was labeled as an Edward Van Halen solo record, which it kind of was, and tweaked with a more experienced producer, but it's definitely too different compared to the "glory days" to appease what people were looking for.

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DMac77
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:08 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:23 am 
 

Luvers wrote:
Rock And Roll Machine by Triumph, especially the international rerecording.

Despite this track being credited to just the drummer/singer, it is known for its legendary four minute guitar solo, in which guitarist extraordinaire Rik Emmett performs all of the same two handed tapping techniques popularized three years later by Eddie Van Halen on Eruption.


As a Canadian I have to give you huge props for repping Triumph. Rik is an amazing guitarist that is sadly overlooked outside of Canada.

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CrudeNoiseMonger
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:06 am
Posts: 44
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:56 am 
 

I first heard Van Halen when i was a kid in the 70s and i saw them live in 1982. I heard the Blues in their playing from the very beginning and thinking about those years past, i never once thought of them using the Blues as a parody. It was just another feel they got from their influences. Hell, Eddie Van Halen once said that he knew every solo that Clapton ever did. David Lee Roth was big fan of LA roots rockers Top Jimmy and the Rhythm Pigs and he used to sit in with them live on occasion.

In the 70s, Van Halen was a whole new thing. You can find entire threads about their early tours and people's reactions to them. The music press absolutely hated them and the fans got converted really fast. Their sound was essentially the sound of 1980s Southern California to come. "Fair Warning" was a darker record but they were an unabashed, unashamed party band. Live they were fucking amazing. When i saw them, the concert was just one massive party with weed and whiskey freely being passed around along the rows. It was one hell of a great time, even if i did have to sneak into my bedroom window when i got home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQgHvOvujNE

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CoconutBackwards
Bullet Centrist

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
Posts: 1017
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:40 am 
 

^ I am endlessly jealous that you saw VH in 1982.

The real travesty in all of this is how little pro shot footage is available from that era.

Youtube has some footage, but a lot of it is bootleg from a fan.
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Vadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:14 pm
Posts: 342
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:02 pm 
 

Someone else would have done it. I find these Great Man Theory things to be so weird. History isn't defined by singular great men (or women) doing things and altering the course of history forever, history is a messy compilation of hundreds or thousands of people doing stuff that you have to sort through after the fact. I'm reminded of the thread where people speculated that if hardcore never existed metal would have remained doomy instead of getting faster and more thrashy and like...guys someone would have eventually went "hey, what if I play REALLY fast".

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CrudeNoiseMonger
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:06 am
Posts: 44
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:33 pm 
 

CoconutBackwards wrote:
^ I am endlessly jealous that you saw VH in 1982.

The real travesty in all of this is how little pro shot footage is available from that era.

Youtube has some footage, but a lot of it is bootleg from a fan.


Yeah, that Oakland show would have been killer if they filmed the whole set. There's a bunch of really early live audio available but the earliest video material is pretty damn dire. The earliest tolerable stuff is from a one off show at the Sellend Arena in Fresno from January 1978. Dave was pretty loose with the vocals that night but Eddie was destroying all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxfysrDRhpw

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Face_your_fear_79
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:18 am
Posts: 418
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 6:13 pm 
 

I like VHIII as well. It was my first VH record too.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5234
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 11:02 am 
 

One big influence on VH that rarely gets talked about is the indorock scene which is western rock fusing with indonesian music. The Van Halen brothers are both Indos as we say here in the Netherlands. Theres a neat Dutch article on some of this here https://joop.bnnvara.nl/opinies/eddie-v ... ortels-had

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kalervon
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:43 pm
Posts: 919
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:51 am 
 

Luvers wrote:
I would say glam/hair metal was profoundly influenced by Aldo Nova's first two albums, he was the leading pioneer of that entire pop metal style at the time and it predates every hair metal artist in existence.
I'm quite familiar with Aldo Nova, but I've only ever seen Bon Jovi acknowledging him somehow.
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megadeth93
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:20 pm
Posts: 103
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 6:42 pm 
 

VH were excellent songwriters - Runnin with the devil, Dance the night away, Jump, Why can't this be love? etc.

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megadeth93
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:20 pm
Posts: 103
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 6:45 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
The main problem with VH1 is that it was the first album to really prioritise technical style and flashy playing over substance and songwriting, so interesting to speculate how music might have developed otherwise.


Surely VH were excellent songwriters - Runnin with the devil. Dance the night away, Jump, Why can't this be love? Etc.

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