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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 667
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:10 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
So, what new bands, from the last 5 years, are fully sustainable by themselves, and would headline festivals, if we pretend Covid isnt a thing?

I checked a festival roaster of bands:
Almost all bands that was high up was between 15-50 years old from formation.
Youngest band in headlining level was like 15 years, I think. So a very old band.


What's this ridiculous threshold? Extremely few band would ever headline a festival after only five years of existence. Those that did are the legends or are extremely lucky. There aren't new legendary bands every year.

Also, 15 years isn't very old. Metal is roughly 40 years, so a 15 years old band is not even "middle age".

As for bands being "fully sustainable after 5 years", it's another bad metric. Metal being alive or dead isn't a matter of bands being able to be sustainable quickly. Rather it's whether there are new bands (yes, they are many), whether they release stuff (oh yeah!), whether there are shows (last I checked there had been many shows planned in my area, from small to big venues, involving many genres, involving young bands, cult bands, old bands reforming, old classics, old bands with new lineups, unknown bands...) and whether those shows are attended.

It's of course preferable if bands can manage to make money off their hard work; for the fans, as it means the artists can focus on their work; and for the artists, who don't have to juggle a "real job" with their gigs. But that's not a sign of metal being alive, it's a sign of music industry and music consumption changing. There wouldn't be so many young bands today if metal was dying.

Hell, I'll go even a step further - the fact that there are so many new bands despite all the hardships related to work-band balance and the lack of reliable money streams is a sign that metal is more alive than ever. It's harder to make it big, it's harder to sustain a band full time, yet many try, many work hard to release their albums despite the lack of real monetary incentives, yet they do it, and they succeed, and they give shows, and fans show up. I'm pretty sure if there had been that many new bands in the 80s, they wouldn't be better off financially.

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Invocation
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:11 pm
Posts: 116
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:39 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
Turok12 wrote:
So, what new bands, from the last 5 years, are fully sustainable by themselves, and would headline festivals, if we pretend Covid isnt a thing?

I checked a festival roaster of bands:
Almost all bands that was high up was between 15-50 years old from formation.
Youngest band in headlining level was like 15 years, I think. So a very old band.


What's this ridiculous threshold? Extremely few band would ever headline a festival after only five years of existence. Those that did are the legends or are extremely lucky. There aren't new legendary bands every year.

Also, 15 years isn't very old. Metal is roughly 40 years, so a 15 years old band is not even "middle age".



CrippledLucifer wrote:
Turok12 wrote:
So, what new bands, from the last 5 years, are fully sustainable by themselves, and would headline festivals, if we pretend Covid isnt a thing?

I checked a festival roaster of bands:
Almost all bands that was high up was between 15-50 years old from formation.
Youngest band in headlining level was like 15 years, I think. So a very old band.

This is a plain bad take. So were 5 year old bands known to headline festivals back in the 80s or something? Or was it the well-established, big bands of the day who got the headline spots? How is this different from today then?


Look at these 80s lineups; almost every headliner (and most supports) was less than 15 years old as a band:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsters_of_Rock#Line-ups

Obviously things are going to be different in a genre that's been around for 50 years, but I do think it's concerning that almost every "big" band has been around for more than 20 years already.

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 667
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:55 pm 
 

I mean, that's... kinda a given? In the 80s, it was impossible to find a metal band older than that, because they simply did not exist. And of course big bands nowaday don't isntantly headline festivals; they have to compete with the legends, the big names, and the other up-and-comers. Few festivals will headline with a band with one or two albums (though smaller fest it probably happens), when you can book a bigger name. And if you can book a tenor of the genre, you're not going to have Chronicle headline instead of Slayer...

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:13 pm 
 

I don't get the fretting over the ages of bands. There could be some 14 year olds right now who will make the next big metal act in 4-5 years. There are always people out there who are fans of any niche and we probably won't ever have another Maiden or Metallica, but I bet you there are plenty of kids who are getting into Sabbath or some extreme metal and getting inspired. I did when I was 15 and that wasn't so long ago in the grand scheme of things. People worry too much.

And yes, like an above post was getting at, it takes bands time to build up skills, experience, reputation, etc. It's not that uncommon at all for artists to hit a stride after being together like 10 years or something. Plus in terms of songwriting, plenty of bands really hit a sweet spot in the middle of their careers - not all of them start off flawless or anything.
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Hexenmacht46290
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:47 pm 
 

Cherry picking a band that happens to try to look just like Motörhead, and sound like them, is a pretty narrow niche, if you want to ask, “why do people buy a Motörhead shirt, when they could support an active band?”

I’ll give a counter example, High on Fire. Similar riffs and vocal style. I saw them in December 2019, headlining a theater, with more than 2000 people. Matt Pike’s other band, Sleep, sold out the Warfield theater, in San Francisco, last time I saw them. If you go on YouTube, and look up the 2006 stoner rock/metal documentary Such Hawks Such Hounds, Matt Pike says that he paid his bills, in that era, working construction. One of the opening bands at that show was Power Trip, who were younger than High on Fire, and another was Devil Master. Power Trip did the same thing as High on Fire, tour for years, have normal jobs, and make good music, until you get famous.

Not everyone will get that big. But if people keep going to shows, when they start up again, then metal will always continue. If you want to get rich, don’t play metal. If you want to play metal, you play metal.
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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2443
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:25 pm 
 

Invocation wrote:
Look at these 80s lineups; almost every headliner (and most supports) was less than 15 years old as a band:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsters_of_Rock#Line-ups

Obviously things are going to be different in a genre that's been around for 50 years, but I do think it's concerning that almost every "big" band has been around for more than 20 years already.


Metal was 10 years old in 1980. 15 by the mid 1980's. Obviously the big bands from the 80's were young bands as metal was young. It still feels like a weird metric to me to assume that 20-something-years-old established bands being more popular than more recent bands means that the genre is dying. The scene is just evolving. And when these bands that are 20-25 years old now will retire, there will be other, younger, well established bands.

And again, we are in the 2020's, not in the 1980's. Define "big". And remember, metal is not in it's teenager years, and the whole market and scene is completely different from how it was 30-40 years ago. So big now can't be Metallica big in the 80's. So what is "big"?

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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:51 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Invocation wrote:
Look at these 80s lineups; almost every headliner (and most supports) was less than 15 years old as a band:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsters_of_Rock#Line-ups

Obviously things are going to be different in a genre that's been around for 50 years, but I do think it's concerning that almost every "big" band has been around for more than 20 years already.


Metal was 10 years old in 1980. 15 by the mid 1980's. Obviously the big bands from the 80's were young bands as metal was young. It still feels like a weird metric to me to assume that 20-something-years-old established bands being more popular than more recent bands means that the genre is dying. The scene is just evolving. And when these bands that are 20-25 years old now will retire, there will be other, younger, well established bands.

And again, we are in the 2020's, not in the 1980's. Define "big". And remember, metal is not in it's teenager years, and the whole market and scene is completely different from how it was 30-40 years ago. So big now can't be Metallica big in the 80's. So what is "big"?

I guess big now means Gojira/Mastodon big. Those are the most recent metal bands I can think that are somehow big if you ignore stuff like Slipknot, Rammstein or Tool.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:05 pm 
 

Not even that many of the musicians playing in metal bands that made it big in the 80s have a track record going way back sometimes even into the 60s. Biff from Saxon was 28 when Saxon released their debut and the music landscape was in general much more open and dynamic back then.

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Invocation
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:11 pm
Posts: 116
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:13 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
And again, we are in the 2020's, not in the 1980's. Define "big". And remember, metal is not in it's teenager years, and the whole market and scene is completely different from how it was 30-40 years ago. So big now can't be Metallica big in the 80's. So what is "big"?


Nitpicking, but Metallica weren't as big as they would become later on in the 80s; the black album came out in 1991.

Anyway, to me "big" means for lighter bands - headlining or sub-headlining Bloodstock, being on the cover of Metal Hammer, playing arenas; for extreme metal bands - headlining or sub-headlining Party San Open Air, regularly playing to audiences of around 1000 people.

Gravetemplar wrote:
I guess big now means Gojira/Mastodon big. Those are the most recent metal bands I can think that are somehow big if you ignore stuff like Slipknot, Rammstein or Tool.


And both of those bands formed more than 20 years ago.

Gojira/Mastodon aren't the only ones though. You could add Sabaton, Amon Amarth or Nightwish.

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 2062
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:38 am 
 

Invocation wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
I guess big now means Gojira/Mastodon big. Those are the most recent metal bands I can think that are somehow big if you ignore stuff like Slipknot, Rammstein or Tool.


And both of those bands formed more than 20 years ago.

Gojira/Mastodon aren't the only ones though. You could add Sabaton, Amon Amarth or Nightwish.


Is there even any massive band with their first release in the past decade? Ghost is probably the closest, from 2010. Then Deafheaven in '11, but that's still a full decade ago. Infant Annihilator in 2012, Rivers of Nihil in 2013, Myrkur in 2015. Some other peripheral bands that aren't on the site but a lot of others might consider metal like Amaranthe and Fit For An Autopsy in 2011, Code Orange in 2012, Jinjer in 2013, Babymetal and Polyphia in 2014.

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MorbidEarth
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:39 am
Posts: 448
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:18 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Invocation wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
I guess big now means Gojira/Mastodon big. Those are the most recent metal bands I can think that are somehow big if you ignore stuff like Slipknot, Rammstein or Tool.


And both of those bands formed more than 20 years ago.

Gojira/Mastodon aren't the only ones though. You could add Sabaton, Amon Amarth or Nightwish.


Is there even any massive band with their first release in the past decade? Ghost is probably the closest, from 2010. Then Deafheaven in '11, but that's still a full decade ago. Infant Annihilator in 2012, Rivers of Nihil in 2013, Myrkur in 2015. Some other peripheral bands that aren't on the site but a lot of others might consider metal like Amaranthe and Fit For An Autopsy in 2011, Code Orange in 2012, Jinjer in 2013, Babymetal and Polyphia in 2014.


Ghost are the only act from that list who are comparable to the above mentioned bands at least as far as commercial success goes. None of the others even come close.

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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 11:06 am 
 

Yeah, Ghost is the only consistently arena-level band on there, and Babymetal can sometimes do them but more commonly does theaters or huge clubs. Being able to consistently draw 700-1000 people in most markets headlining on a four or five-band bill at the max (basically, if the only way you're pulling these numbers as a headliner is through large branded package tours or coheadliners, you're not that big) in a large club is the benchmark for "huge" as far as I'm concerned.

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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2443
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 8:10 pm 
 

MorbidEarth wrote:
Ghost are the only act from that list who are comparable to the above mentioned bands at least as far as commercial success goes. None of the others even come close.


I know you're not straight-up saying that commercial success is what determines if a genre is alive and healthy, but we're treading in these territories with this kind of discussion. No, metal bands nowadays aren't as commercially succesful as Black Sabbath, Metallica or Iron Maiden. It's deeply irrelevant to the matter at hand though.

There are still bands making music, bands touring, people going to see them live, and last I checked, there were still new bands forming and releasing music. Metal is not anywhere near dead. I don't give a fuck if Blood Incantation doesn't sell as much as Kendrick Lamar.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 747
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 8:55 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
I don't give a fuck if Blood Incantation doesn't sell as much as Kendrick Lamar.

Does sells even matter anymore? Like, just because an album didn't sell well doesn't mean that it's bad. In fact, just about every extreme metal album that didn't even pass 100,000 sales is still great.
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hells_unicorn
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:03 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
I don't give a fuck if Blood Incantation doesn't sell as much as Kendrick Lamar.

Does sells even matter anymore? Like, just because an album didn't sell well doesn't mean that it's bad. In fact, just about every extreme metal album that didn't even pass 100,000 sales is still great.


I might be going out on a limb by saying this, but I think this whole discussion is predicated on the idea that metal and rock need to cater to mainstream audiences in order to survive, which is demonstrably false given just about everything that's happened in the scene since the mid-90s. Admittedly I'm more geared towards more melodic and accessible forms of metal, but I could not care less if one of my favorite power metal or NWOTHM bands only sells a couple thousand albums. As long as they are making ends meet and able to put out more stuff, I'll gladly support them over the dreck that passes for mainstream music these days.
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:36 pm 
 

Yeah the number crunching stuff and chart tracking shit always feels hilarious when talking about metal nowadays. That can not be what determines metal's health. The "legions" and "hordes" no longer giving a fuck is what will kill metal, if anything. It certainly won't be mainstream attention. Metal bands share an intimacy and understanding with the fans that trendy mainstream artists do not have so that's where it's at, I think. The genre also doesn't have to prove that it can diversify and evolve because duh, there's like a hundred subgenres and sub-subgenres. It all comes down to the band-fan connection. Do they still have your ear?
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Putrid_Abomination
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:54 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:14 pm 
 

Metal is always going to be around and I can't possibly foresee a day when people stop listening to it, writing it, or releasing it. I never liked the phrase "Is ______ blank dying?" because it's the kind of phrase people like the PunkRockMBA say all the time without even acknowledging that a genre truly never dies, especially when there are millions of fans around the world still consuming and producing said music. There may be slow periods where nobody's releasing anything worthwhile but there will always be something new in metal.

There have been influxes of trending artists in metal as of late that I don't necessarily care for (and would probably lead many people to believe that metal is dying) compared to the bands that don't get as much media attention though. I would like to think of it as a never ending cycle of music where one generation ends and the next carries the torch. Some good, some bad. Opinion: Dangerous.

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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
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Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:37 pm 
 

I'm pleased to announce Heavy Metal was alive and kicking when I saw the mighty Beastwars live last night!

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Auch
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 437
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 5:12 pm 
 

I’m sorry but it’s crazy that this thread made it to 4 pages based on a question by a person with 4 posts, mentions he’s really only a big fan of 80s trad metal, and uses djent and metalcore as his examples to ask if metal is really still growing and evolving.

The question of “what’s the future of metal?” is interesting but asking “is metal dying?” with that background being your main context is a little too narrow to have a nuanced conversation.

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hells_unicorn
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 3:25 pm 
 

Auch wrote:
I’m sorry but it’s crazy that this thread made it to 4 pages based on a question by a person with 4 posts, mentions he’s really only a big fan of 80s trad metal, and uses djent and metalcore as his examples to ask if metal is really still growing and evolving.

The question of “what’s the future of metal?” is interesting but asking “is metal dying?” with that background being your main context is a little too narrow to have a nuanced conversation.


I think the reason this conversation has gotten traction is because this is a common sentiment for some strange reason, though I do agree with you that his understanding of metal is a bit narrow, not to mention that he seems utterly oblivious to the NWOTHM.
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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:12 pm 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
Auch wrote:
I’m sorry but it’s crazy that this thread made it to 4 pages based on a question by a person with 4 posts, mentions he’s really only a big fan of 80s trad metal, and uses djent and metalcore as his examples to ask if metal is really still growing and evolving.

The question of “what’s the future of metal?” is interesting but asking “is metal dying?” with that background being your main context is a little too narrow to have a nuanced conversation.


I think the reason this conversation has gotten traction is because this is a common sentiment for some strange reason, though I do agree with you that his understanding of metal is a bit narrow, not to mention that he seems utterly oblivious to the NWOTHM.


This. The OP might have been a shitty post, devoid of any real basis for it's premises, but the idea that "metal is dying" seems to be common, like hells_unicorn said, for some strange reason.

This is a common thing not just in metal, but in basically any musical genre that's been around for a while. Nostalgia for a vague and undefined golden age of a genre, combined with a bad understanding of today's musical industry and lack of knowledge of modern bands, seems to be what's feeding this kind of rhetoric, even though everything seems to be pointing towards the fact that metal is pretty much anything but dead.

hells_unicorn wrote:
Slater922 wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
I don't give a fuck if Blood Incantation doesn't sell as much as Kendrick Lamar.

Does sells even matter anymore? Like, just because an album didn't sell well doesn't mean that it's bad. In fact, just about every extreme metal album that didn't even pass 100,000 sales is still great.


I might be going out on a limb by saying this, but I think this whole discussion is predicated on the idea that metal and rock need to cater to mainstream audiences in order to survive, which is demonstrably false given just about everything that's happened in the scene since the mid-90s. Admittedly I'm more geared towards more melodic and accessible forms of metal, but I could not care less if one of my favorite power metal or NWOTHM bands only sells a couple thousand albums. As long as they are making ends meet and able to put out more stuff, I'll gladly support them over the dreck that passes for mainstream music these days.


I agree with this, 100%.

But sometimes people will make the argument that big metal festivals, mostly those outside of Europe, are having a hard time attracting big crowds these days because there are not a ton of options for big headliners who aren't bands of the old guard (Iron Maiden, Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Judas Priest, etc.). It is the case for the Heavy Montreal we have here every year (when there is no pandemic, of course) and that recently opened up to punk and hardcore bands to try and attract more people. And the biggest crowd I ever saw at one of these was for Slipknot, a few years back. Metallica, apparently, brought in the biggest crowd this festival ever had. Again, I don't know if the festival is actually struggling financially, as I have zero faith in big promoters like Evenko. They probably just feel like they aren't making enoug of a profit, so that's why they are complaining. But it is true, however, that big festivals are relying on older bands. Which is also true for festival like the Maryland Deathfest, which has a lot of great bands on the bill, but the headliners are Dismember, Obituary and Bloodbath.

I don't think that this is a good way to measure if the scene is in good shape or not. I mean, there are still smaller festivals and concerts, and these are all very much alive. I don't think the scene is dying, but it is definitely changing, and I guess some folks are really scared by this kind of change, and they tend to interpret this as a sign of decline. Which I strongly disagree with.

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Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:21 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
Auch wrote:
I’m sorry but it’s crazy that this thread made it to 4 pages based on a question by a person with 4 posts, mentions he’s really only a big fan of 80s trad metal, and uses djent and metalcore as his examples to ask if metal is really still growing and evolving.

The question of “what’s the future of metal?” is interesting but asking “is metal dying?” with that background being your main context is a little too narrow to have a nuanced conversation.


I think the reason this conversation has gotten traction is because this is a common sentiment for some strange reason, though I do agree with you that his understanding of metal is a bit narrow, not to mention that he seems utterly oblivious to the NWOTHM.


This. The OP might have been a shitty post, devoid of any real basis for it's premises, but the idea that "metal is dying" seems to be common, like hells_unicorn said, for some strange reason.

This is a common thing not just in metal, but in basically any musical genre that's been around for a while. Nostalgia for a vague and undefined golden age of a genre
Well, the "golden age" of Metal isn't that vaguely defined for me... :-D Seriously though, like the way that most bands' best records come early in their career, I think the progressions of overall genres is much the same; there's an early period of unfulfilled potential, then there's the golden age, and then the stuff that comes later isn't quite on that same level, but it's still worthwhile, and I think there's always going to be good Metal coming out, even if the peak of the sound as a whole ended at some point in the 90's, IMO.
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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 9:26 pm 
 

Smalley wrote:
Well, the "golden age" of Metal isn't that vaguely defined for me... :-D Seriously though, like the way that most bands' best records come early in their career, I think the progressions of overall genres is much the same; there's an early period of unfulfilled potential, then there's the golden age, and then the stuff that comes later isn't quite on that same level, but it's still worthwhile, and I think there's always going to be good Metal coming out, even if the peak of the sound as a whole ended at some point in the 90's, IMO.


Black metal and death metal both spawned in the late 80's and really exploded in the 90's, yet, and even if both genres went through some ups and downs since, they are both very innovative genres up to this day, and even bands who explore older sounds to combine them with newer elements of various genres, do so in a very innovative way that keeps the genres fresh. Of course, one could say that the 90's were the golden of age of both genres, as most of the classics were crafted during this decade, but some of my favorite bands never dropped a single record before the 2000's and I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. Decapitated, Benighted, Blood Red Throne, Blood Incantation are all amazing bands who have nothing to envy of bands like Death, Obituary or Morbid Saint, regardless of how hight the classic bands peaked.

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The_Doo_Over
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:29 pm
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:24 am 
 

Short answer: Definitely not!

Much longer answer: Perhaps metal as people knew it in the '70s and '80s "died", but that's because it went through a weird puberty phase in the '90s and evolved into something else entirely. In other words, metal has continued to change and is constantly changing. In fact, even the standards for what is considered metal has changed considerably. For example, in the '70s, Black Sabbath was considered metal, but if any of their earlier material came out today, it wouldn't be considered metal since its definition and standards have completely changed over the last 5 decades. In fact, if anything, metal is one of the fastest growing genres since there is so much more diversity in metal now than there ever has been in the '70s and '80s. When it comes to metal, there is something for everyone who is new to the genre. Overall, metal has not died, and I sincerely doubt that it will either.

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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 3284
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:29 am 
 

Not many people write baroque music these days, and it hasn't evolved much in the last 300 years but it still has its audience.
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lala33
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 6:26 am
Posts: 1
Location: India
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 8:50 am 
 

Bertuccia wrote:
What's the future of heavy metal?
Nothing is eternal...
50 years ago metal was born.... I'm feeling so old.


Metal can never die, there were too many groups from 80's till recent times, even if you listen to half of them again, you will cross another lifetime. I am finding real gems listening to bands that were not in the mainstream.

Also, Metal is a genre which had the best of music, heavy music that nobody of the younger generation have the patience to listen.

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insanewayne253
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:04 am
Posts: 186
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:42 pm 
 

According to YouTubers like Circle of Tone the scene is in piss poor shape and he shrieks about copycat bands who are either stoner doom, prog, or black metal. And then when you point out bands that are doing really good things in the underground scene he shrugs it off and just says this generation is a copycat generation. Seriously dude?!? We get it, your dad was the drummer of Badfinger and you’re just jaded that you haven’t found something that stands out, but you gotta dig, especially in the digital age it makes searching for stuff much easier. It’s not all “vanilla sausage.”

Metal is alive and well; no need to try and constantly reinvent the wheel. Do it really good or do something fucked up with it. If I like it, I’ll support it.

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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 2660
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:21 pm 
 

Metal will never die, but you will.

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des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 95
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:00 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Metal will never die, but you will.

/thread

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hells_unicorn
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:20 pm 
 

insanewayne253 wrote:
According to YouTubers like Circle of Tone the scene is in piss poor shape and he shrieks about copycat bands who are either stoner doom, prog, or black metal. And then when you point out bands that are doing really good things in the underground scene he shrugs it off and just says this generation is a copycat generation. Seriously dude?!? We get it, your dad was the drummer of Badfinger and you’re just jaded that you haven’t found something that stands out, but you gotta dig, especially in the digital age it makes searching for stuff much easier. It’s not all “vanilla sausage.”

Metal is alive and well; no need to try and constantly reinvent the wheel. Do it really good or do something fucked up with it. If I like it, I’ll support it.


I have zero time for people like this, if you're not contributing anything to the current scene other than complaints, you are not worth hearing, I don't care how many thousands of followers you have on your YouTube page. The scene lives because music journalists work to keep it alive, people who whine incessantly because it isn't the 1970s or 1980s anymore are cancer and should be radiated out of the body of discussion.
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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2443
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:32 pm 
 

insanewayne253 wrote:
According to YouTubers like Circle of Tone the scene is in piss poor shape and he shrieks about copycat bands who are either stoner doom, prog, or black metal. And then when you point out bands that are doing really good things in the underground scene he shrugs it off and just says this generation is a copycat generation. Seriously dude?!? We get it, your dad was the drummer of Badfinger and you’re just jaded that you haven’t found something that stands out, but you gotta dig, especially in the digital age it makes searching for stuff much easier. It’s not all “vanilla sausage.”

Metal is alive and well; no need to try and constantly reinvent the wheel. Do it really good or do something fucked up with it. If I like it, I’ll support it.


I don't know who he is and I don't care about his opinion. A moron with a mic and a YouTube channel doesn't have any kind of authority on the matter by default. Typically, anyone with a black and white opinion on basically any subject matter is most likely a clown and spouting dumb controversial opinions to generate buzz around his/her mediocre channel. Hard pass.

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Auch
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 437
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 1:07 am 
 

Smalley wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:

I think the reason this conversation has gotten traction is because this is a common sentiment for some strange reason, though I do agree with you that his understanding of metal is a bit narrow, not to mention that he seems utterly oblivious to the NWOTHM.


This. The OP might have been a shitty post, devoid of any real basis for it's premises, but the idea that "metal is dying" seems to be common, like hells_unicorn said, for some strange reason.

This is a common thing not just in metal, but in basically any musical genre that's been around for a while. Nostalgia for a vague and undefined golden age of a genre
Well, the "golden age" of Metal isn't that vaguely defined for me... :-D Seriously though, like the way that most bands' best records come early in their career, I think the progressions of overall genres is much the same; there's an early period of unfulfilled potential, then there's the golden age, and then the stuff that comes later isn't quite on that same level, but it's still worthwhile, and I think there's always going to be good Metal coming out, even if the peak of the sound as a whole ended at some point in the 90's, IMO.


I’ll 100% disagree with you. There are so many avant-garde black metal bands and new grind bands (two genres I feel somewhat familiar with) doing cool stuff that is heads and shoulders above the current copycats as well as the older copycats that fade away. Are you going to try to say that there’s a golden age of grindcore for example (started late 80s) that ignores bands like Discordance Axis (specifically TID/ Gridlink, Pig Destroyer, Cloud Rat, Fuck the Facts, Full of Hell, etc.?

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Bertuccia
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 44
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:44 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
It is if you don't like black or death metal, it often feels like.


I like black and death metal, but only few band. Those bands are too similar

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Bertuccia
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 44
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:45 pm 
 

In_Zane wrote:
Not even close to dying.

Blues is even older, and it's not dead.


Blues is not dead but the songs are all the same.

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Bertuccia
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 44
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:52 pm 
 

I Am the Law wrote:
There were over 8800 full-length releases last year across all genres on the Metal Archives, an all-time high. I think it's safe to say metal is not even remotely close to dying.


in 2020 were formed 1384 bands, in 2016, instead, 3306 bands, in 2018 were formed 2381 bands.
Therefore there are progressively fewer bands.

Anyway, more band and more albums doesn't mean quality albums.

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Bertuccia
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 44
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:01 pm 
 

CrudeNoiseMonger wrote:
Perhaps there is that perception due to the lack of a real mainstream, mass media presence. IMO it's still quite strong.


I hate mainstream. In Italy "Sanremo" this is year was won by a "hard" "rock" band. That song is a plagiarism of another one and that style is a copy of 90's italian pop rock that was a copy of Led Zeppelin.

I'm afraid that there is too much mainstream.

There are a lot of metal Youtube channel.

I think that metal is becoming similar to classical music: important as historical, but completely old and dead.
We can study it for playing but we can't play NEW metal music, different by Black Sabbath, Slayer, etc... but still metal, because after 50 years we already copied a lot of music.

In fact in order to make progress in metal music we have created hybrid genres, for example folk metal, in order to have two different source of inspiration. And 25 years ago that seemed to us as "new" if we never listened to folk music. For example I loved Eluveitie's first albums, but then I discovered the folk musicians that they copied. And then I also discovered that they copied Dark Tranqullity, but I had never listened to melodeath metal, I like prog death or traditional death metal... therefore Eluveitie seemed to me "original" but they weren't "original". But I think that had a good sound...

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thrashmaniac87
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 686
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:05 pm 
 

Bertuccia wrote:
I Am the Law wrote:
There were over 8800 full-length releases last year across all genres on the Metal Archives, an all-time high. I think it's safe to say metal is not even remotely close to dying.


in 2020 were formed 1384 bands, in 2016, instead, 3306 bands, in 2018 were formed 2381 bands.
Therefore there are progressively fewer bands.

Anyway, more band and more albums doesn't mean quality albums.


We were in lockdown for most of 2020 so obviously there would be fewer bands forming. There has been a ridiculous amound of quality albums over the past several years. Heavy metal isn't even close to dying.
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Bertuccia
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 44
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:09 pm 
 

Waltz_of_Ghouls wrote:
Yes it is dying, for a 4th time.


when I was a teen boy I used to laugh every time someone said that rock music was dead... but now I think that is impossible to make new rock or metal music.
Actually, I think that is impossible to invent new idea to make new and original music.

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Bertuccia
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 44
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:13 pm 
 

Zerberus wrote:
Some bands (like Ghost, Sabaton, Behemoth and whatever else the kids are listening to these days) are still achieving a lot of success, mainstream too.
The last decade has produced some of the best, in my opinion, metal albums ever. Even if the glory days may be over for now, I don't think metal is even in any type of slump.


Ok, I'll listen to these albums... I never listenet to those bands.
I'm not talking about mainstream or success, in fact "success" doesn't mean "quality" or "originality".

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Bertuccia
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:10 am
Posts: 44
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:16 pm 
 

pressingtoplead13 wrote:
Metal will never die. With that said now that I'm older and most of my co workers arent into metal i feel alittle out of touch with who the popular mainstream entry type bands are right now. I remember in high school Trivium and Lamb of God were popular amongst those kids, who is the big band right now?


Mozart is dead. Everything dies. Also music will die. Someday

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