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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 2225
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:36 am 
 

Boychev wrote:
I don't see why a future consisting of a sea of small bands with dedicated fans is necessarily a bad thing.


Boom! This is the answer summed up perfectly.

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hallowed78
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:53 am
Posts: 333
Location: LV-426
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:10 am 
 

If you pull a parallel with animal kingdom, there is still big fauna roaming the landscape. Maybe one day, after the big fauna has died out, those niches will be filled by new species. It could be just down to "new generation needing new heroes" because the old heroes still cast too big of a shadow.

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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 1013
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:42 am 
 

Turner wrote:
Boychev wrote:
I don't see why a future consisting of a sea of small bands with dedicated fans is necessarily a bad thing.


Boom! This is the answer summed up perfectly.

Sustainability. Juggling a day job or being a career musician who doesn't make that great a living is not something that a lot of people can do over the long term.

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hells_unicorn
Veteran

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:48 pm 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
Sustainability. Juggling a day job or being a career musician who doesn't make that great a living is not something that a lot of people can do over the long term.


A return to the bad old days of monopolist labels entrapping artists with promises of becoming millionaires is not a viable option either, but these 2 scenarios seem less and less likely with each passing day. The market is in a state of transition so it looks like things are getting dicey, but all it takes is a new innovation that makes being a full time artist profitable again and you'll see this issue become mitigated. I don't think the overall demand for metal is diminishing right now, so the suppliers will figure out the delivery system in the coming years, which will make it far more attractive to future artists.
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Last edited by hells_unicorn on Tue May 04, 2021 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29644
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:50 pm 
 

At the end of the day, while artists deserve to be paid more, you really only get into it if you have that kind of passion in you that won't shut up until you make whatever it is. So those who really want to make metal are gonna do it. Not defending bad business practices or anything but still.
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Hexenmacht46290
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
Posts: 245
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:09 pm 
 

Boychev wrote:
I don't see why a future consisting of a sea of small bands with dedicated fans is necessarily a bad thing.


This is it.

Yes, money is a problem. But, some of the greatest bands, have normal, everyday blue collar jobs, to pay rent. Meanwhile, Jari Mäenpää hasn’t had a job in decades, lives off the taxpayer, and grifts his fans, into buying him a sauna, and is still too lazy to record music. This is why, if you have a floor or couch, to offer the band, you should consider it. Yes, that sounds extreme. Am I advocating that we should be okay with bands being poor? Real metal has never been that mainstream! Just because old school death metal bands had videos on MTV, didn’t mean they were rich. Cannibal Corpse has a tour bus, everyone else has a van.

Writing good music is a choice. But, fewer bands will choose to do it, if almost no one shows up at shows. And with most people listening to streaming services, which only recommend you stuff similar to what you already listen to, how is anyone who isn’t already into metal going to get into it?

The first problem is solved by word of mouth. It’s more effective than an algorithm, which won’t recommend you new genres. The second, by not being one of the people who never go to shows. That’s what’s really “killing” the genre. Shows aren’t happening right now, for most people, I understand. And they aren’t convenient. I live in an area that most awesome tours seem to skip, and for years, I worked at 6am, and got little sleep, the after a show. If you have obligations, they have to come first. I don’t want to try to guilt people for not going to shows, but, without shows, then yes, the genre would be pretty dead. Good bands form, because they have ideas, and they want to play their ideas, on stage. If money and widespread fame are the goal, this isn’t the genre for it.
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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2443
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:59 pm 
 

Boychev wrote:
The problem with pronouncing a genre "dead" when it's still being played and listened to by a fairly big audience is that the assumption to me seems to be that the only valid form of existence for an artform is to have a youth culture attached to it. Metal's probably getting older - both the audience and the musicians - but I don't see how that makes it "dead" when there is still a mass of people willing to listen to it and learn to play it. Like yeah, probably in 20-30 years there won't be any teenagers who listen to Black Sabbath...


I don't know why anyone is actually buying into the whole "teenagers don't listen to metal anymore" discourse. I actually work with teenagers, and I often see kids who are into metal music. Why are you guys assuming otherwise?

And just like there are still kids listening to Pink Floyd, there will obviously still be teenagers listening to Black Sabbath in 20-30 years. I still have basically no idea why anyone would assume otherwise. Anyone who thinks that Black Sabbath will eventually stop being popular needs to tune in to any commercial rock radio station and count the amount of Black Sabbath songs being played in a day.

Seriously, this whole debate is based on flawed premises and completely baseless assumptions.

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LithoJazzoSphere
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
Posts: 2062
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:47 pm 
 

I suspect the reason the Black Sabbath is more commonly played now on terrestrial radio has more to do with classic rock formats redefining themselves over time. I haven't actively listened in a couple decades, but when I do catch it in various situations, I've noticed that the 50s and 60s artists have been increasingly phased out, replaced by more 80s and 90s ones, and the material they select has become a bit edgier over the years as they've absorbed the catalogs and markets from other stations. You would never hear "Enter Sandman", "Sad But True", Green Day's "Basket Case" and other more intense songs on classic rock formats 20 years ago (just on now defunct modern rock stations that were aimed at younger crowds), but you do now, along with "Paranoid" for example.

What we really need in the discussion though is some hard statistics about the change in musical genre preference by various demographics over time. I did some preliminary searching and didn't find quite what I was looking for, so I'd have to research it more in depth if I had more time. So much of the thread is based around anecdotal evidence from our personal and minuscule sample sizes, so there's little common ground for comparison and everyone just argues past each based on divergent points from personal experience.

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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2443
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:00 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
I suspect the reason the Black Sabbath is more commonly played now on terrestrial radio has more to do with classic rock formats redefining themselves over time. I haven't actively listened in a couple decades, but when I do catch it in various situations, I've noticed that the 50s and 60s artists have been increasingly phased out, replaced by more 80s and 90s ones, and the material they select has become a bit edgier over the years as they've absorbed the catalogs and markets from other stations. You would never hear "Enter Sandman", "Sad But True", Green Day's "Basket Case" and other more intense songs on classic rock formats 20 years ago (just on now defunct modern rock stations that were aimed at younger crowds), but you do now, along with "Paranoid" for example.


I said radio stations, but maybe that was not the best example. I could have said bars, clubs, venues that focus more on punk, metal and rock culture, for example. These still play Black Sabbath, just as much as they still play The Doors, Pink Floyd or Yes.

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
What we really need in the discussion though is some hard statistics about the change in musical genre preference by various demographics over time. I did some preliminary searching and didn't find quite what I was looking for, so I'd have to research it more in depth if I had more time. So much of the thread is based around anecdotal evidence from our personal and minuscule sample sizes, so there's little common ground for comparison and everyone just argues past each based on divergent points from personal experience.


Of course hard science would be best. But until than, why would anyone have reasons to assume that there are less teenagers and young adults into metal music nowadays than 10, 20 or 30 years ago? Why start from that assumption? I mean, I can't be the only one who goes to metal shows and festivals and still sees tons of them around. There is basically no evidence pointing toward the conclusion that younger audiences do not listen to metal music anymore. And the fact that there are more bands around from more different genres and from all over the world seems to point towards the conclusion that there is still a big crowd for metal music, and it can't just be a bunch old timers and a few of 30+ years old keeping it alive. Again, I see no reason to assume that the scene is in any worst a shape than 10 or 20 years ago.

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hells_unicorn
Veteran

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:04 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
I suspect the reason the Black Sabbath is more commonly played now on terrestrial radio has more to do with classic rock formats redefining themselves over time. I haven't actively listened in a couple decades, but when I do catch it in various situations, I've noticed that the 50s and 60s artists have been increasingly phased out, replaced by more 80s and 90s ones, and the material they select has become a bit edgier over the years as they've absorbed the catalogs and markets from other stations. You would never hear "Enter Sandman", "Sad But True", Green Day's "Basket Case" and other more intense songs on classic rock formats 20 years ago (just on now defunct modern rock stations that were aimed at younger crowds), but you do now, along with "Paranoid" for example.

What we really need in the discussion though is some hard statistics about the change in musical genre preference by various demographics over time. I did some preliminary searching and didn't find quite what I was looking for, so I'd have to research it more in depth if I had more time. So much of the thread is based around anecdotal evidence from our personal and minuscule sample sizes, so there's little common ground for comparison and everyone just argues past each based on divergent points from personal experience.


Terrestrial radio isn't really a good gauge of where things are anyway, it's a dying medium (and I'm not going to miss it), more and more motor vehicles are being outfitted with access to WiFi and satellite radio, which has a greater level of specialization in specific genres. Getting stats on what stations are getting the most play of satellite providers like Sirius would seem to be a better reflection of current listening trends, and I know some like to whine about how streaming sites like Spotify, Apple Music and Pandora are cancer, but you can get a pretty good read of what younger people to listening to by checking the listening stats on said sites. Naturally more established bands are going to draw larger numbers, but younger acts are definitely getting heard, and the streaming sites do provide demographic breakdowns of listeners by country and age.
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Boychev
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:49 am
Posts: 86
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 am 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
Turner wrote:
Boychev wrote:
I don't see why a future consisting of a sea of small bands with dedicated fans is necessarily a bad thing.


Boom! This is the answer summed up perfectly.

Sustainability. Juggling a day job or being a career musician who doesn't make that great a living is not something that a lot of people can do over the long term.


Hasn't this always been the reality for most metal bands though? I recall Immolation as well as Dying Fetus saying in interviews that they have dayjobs, and they're some of the biggest death metal bands.

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KayBur
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:06 am
Posts: 15
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:06 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
I suspect the reason the Black Sabbath is more commonly played now on terrestrial radio has more to do with classic rock formats redefining themselves over time. I haven't actively listened in a couple decades, but when I do catch it in various situations, I've noticed that the 50s and 60s artists have been increasingly phased out, replaced by more 80s and 90s ones, and the material they select has become a bit edgier over the years as they've absorbed the catalogs and markets from other stations. You would never hear "Enter Sandman", "Sad But True", Green Day's "Basket Case" and other more intense songs on classic rock formats 20 years ago (just on now defunct modern rock stations that were aimed at younger crowds), but you do now, along with "Paranoid" for example.

What we really need in the discussion though is some hard statistics about the change in musical genre preference by various demographics over time. I did some preliminary searching and didn't find quite what I was looking for, so I'd have to research it more in depth if I had more time. So much of the thread is based around anecdotal evidence from our personal and minuscule sample sizes, so there's little common ground for comparison and everyone just argues past each based on divergent points from personal experience.



I can note that young people under 30 years old already from "old rock" will prefer to listen to songs of the 80-90s. Rock of the 60s and 70s is already outliving its time to some extent, it is listened to mainly by those over 40, whose parents listened to those songs while their children were young.

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Keith 777
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:23 am
Posts: 5
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:18 am 
 

It will never die, as it doesn't need the oxygen of publicity to survive .
Metal is totally self sufficient.

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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 1013
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:44 am 
 

Boychev wrote:
Hasn't this always been the reality for most metal bands though? I recall Immolation as well as Dying Fetus saying in interviews that they have dayjobs, and they're some of the biggest death metal bands.

They all either own their own businesses or have very flexible schedules, and all of them have good jobs to begin with, not to mention that Fetus these days in particular brings in way more than pocket change and is effectively a very profitable side hustle. The ones who are likely to burn out are the ones working jobs that don't pay all that much with bands that don't make all that much, particularly if they have ever gotten a "we need you here and you're going to find a way back home ASAP if you want to still have a job when you get back" email while in the middle of a tour (and yes, that does happen a fair bit).

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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:01 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
I don't know why anyone is actually buying into the whole "teenagers don't listen to metal anymore" discourse. I actually work with teenagers, and I often see kids who are into metal music. Why are you guys assuming otherwise?

And just like there are still kids listening to Pink Floyd, there will obviously still be teenagers listening to Black Sabbath in 20-30 years. I still have basically no idea why anyone would assume otherwise. Anyone who thinks that Black Sabbath will eventually stop being popular needs to tune in to any commercial rock radio station and count the amount of Black Sabbath songs being played in a day.

Seriously, this whole debate is based on flawed premises and completely baseless assumptions.


Teens listening to dead or retired bands isn't a sign of welbeing for a genre...

They should support young bands instead of fossils.

A) Spending $20 on buying a Motörhead "England" t-shirt...
B) Or spending $20 on an up-and-coming young band that really needs it?

Most teens would more likely do the FIRST options.
Because its "cooooool" to have a Motörhead "England" shirt.
Or a Black Sabbath "Masters Of Reality" shirt.
Even tho its a complete waste of money.

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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:07 am 
 

Boychev wrote:
The problem with pronouncing a genre "dead"


Thread title says DYING not dead. :-P :-D

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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 2660
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:51 am 
 

Maybe it's just me but I'd rather teenagers stay out of metal. I don't see a problem with having a bit more mature fans, even though a big chunk of metal fans can be pretty idiotic too. Bands like Swans got more attention in the US from teens/people in their early 20s thanks to garbage like 4Chan/Reddit/The Needle Drop and it led to some younger people going to shows. I don't have anything against younger people but I've heard enough stories about these kind of dumbasses doing stupid shit to know you don't want this kind of young people at your shows. Nothing like what I've seen here in Europe the 7-8 times I saw them. People at their shows were definitely older.

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DangerousGraveyard
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 05, 2021 10:40 am
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:53 am 
 

The reality is that people listen to heavy metal, that's for sure, but mostly old granpa bands. And their glory may be eternal, but their holograms won't be offering new music in the future.

There are plenty of new bands of YOUNG people. Too many. That's another reality: most bands suck so bad that it's hard to put any intention to listen or discover new names, but that also harms awesome young acts that truly deserve attention and could have a bright future if someone decided to buy their bundle on Bandcamp, including a CD + t-shirt + sticker + badge + her mommas panties + cookies + used strings + laundry service and a ride home for 20$ instead of the new fucking Big Band reissue for 70€.

Technology allows more releases, but it also decreases the quality of the albums: no good sound, no originality and definitely no good artworks. Fast food bands. Those are a fucking cancer... guys that decide one day to put together a terrible speed metal band, prepare everything with all the cliches and release it in 2 days, and they have enough friends to "steal the attention" from the good bands that are worthy. Or overrated products with talentless people, like Eternal Champion, with a vocalist with the voice of a deaf old dog having a brain seizure.

Same goes for those fast food labels that are popping out everywhere: Greedy bastards that put out the most awful bands just because some member is a friend or because they need to fill a catalog, and then they don't move those bands at all and put another stone on those band's grave.

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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 1013
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:07 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Maybe it's just me but I'd rather teenagers stay out of metal. I don't see a problem with having a bit more mature fans, even though a big chunk of metal fans can be pretty idiotic too. Bands like Swans got more attention in the US from teens/people in their early 20s thanks to garbage like 4Chan/Reddit/The Needle Drop and it led to some younger people going to shows. I don't have anything against younger people but I've heard enough stories about these kind of dumbasses doing stupid shit to know you don't want this kind of young people at your shows. Nothing like what I've seen here in Europe the 7-8 times I saw them. People at their shows were definitely older.

21+ shows are a thing here in the US and it's definitely a different vibe, but in general, most kids across the pond here are fairly well-behaved aside from certain bands and/or on huge package bills. Either way, driving away young fans is stupid - they usually have more disposable income and buy lots of shit at the merch table, and that's what puts gas in the van, decent food in your stomachs (instead of another night of Taco Bell or Wendy's), and money in your account. I'm perfectly okay with kids if they know how to behave, especially since they're usually way easier to reason with and talk some sense into than that 32-year-old drunken asshole in the tattered Suicide Silence shirt who just grabbed you by the back of the shirt and almost pulled you down backwards because he's way too drunk to be there.

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 667
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:23 pm 
 

I haven't noticed a huge difference of attitude depending on the age of the audience. I'd say most people here are well-behaved and usually make up a fun crowd. The main difference is the young ones arrive early and stand at the front, while the older fans stand at the back or on the sides, but even so there is a lot of variation.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 747
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:40 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Maybe it's just me but I'd rather teenagers stay out of metal. I don't see a problem with having a bit more mature fans, even though a big chunk of metal fans can be pretty idiotic too. Bands like Swans got more attention in the US from teens/people in their early 20s thanks to garbage like 4Chan/Reddit/The Needle Drop and it led to some younger people going to shows. I don't have anything against younger people but I've heard enough stories about these kind of dumbasses doing stupid shit to know you don't want this kind of young people at your shows. Nothing like what I've seen here in Europe the 7-8 times I saw them. People at their shows were definitely older.

Well, not every metalhead teen is an unlikeable jackass. I myself am 17, and I'm probably one of the nicest metalheads in my area.
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Invocation
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:11 pm
Posts: 116
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:56 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Maybe it's just me but I'd rather teenagers stay out of metal. I don't see a problem with having a bit more mature fans, even though a big chunk of metal fans can be pretty idiotic too. Bands like Swans got more attention in the US from teens/people in their early 20s thanks to garbage like 4Chan/Reddit/The Needle Drop and it led to some younger people going to shows. I don't have anything against younger people but I've heard enough stories about these kind of dumbasses doing stupid shit to know you don't want this kind of young people at your shows. Nothing like what I've seen here in Europe the 7-8 times I saw them. People at their shows were definitely older.


Given that most metal fans first got into the genre as teenagers if teenagers "stayed out of metal" the supply of new fans would probably dry up pretty quickly.

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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2443
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 5:56 pm 
 

Turok12 wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
I don't know why anyone is actually buying into the whole "teenagers don't listen to metal anymore" discourse. I actually work with teenagers, and I often see kids who are into metal music. Why are you guys assuming otherwise?

And just like there are still kids listening to Pink Floyd, there will obviously still be teenagers listening to Black Sabbath in 20-30 years. I still have basically no idea why anyone would assume otherwise. Anyone who thinks that Black Sabbath will eventually stop being popular needs to tune in to any commercial rock radio station and count the amount of Black Sabbath songs being played in a day.

Seriously, this whole debate is based on flawed premises and completely baseless assumptions.


Teens listening to dead or retired bands isn't a sign of welbeing for a genre...


Way to take my answer out of it's context. I was answering to someone who singled out Black Sabbath and said that teenagers won't be listening to them in 20-30 years. I was absolutely not and at any point even remotely suggesting that kids listening to disbanded bands was a good way to measure the welbeing of a genre.

I did, however, mention that there are tons of metal bands active now, from a wide variety of subgenres and from all over the globe. We are most likely living in the time when there has been the most active metal bands at the same time in the entire history of the genre. And that is a sign that metal is pretty much the opposite of dying.

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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:52 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Way to take my answer out of it's context. I was answering to someone who singled out Black Sabbath and said that teenagers won't be listening to them in 20-30 years. I was absolutely not and at any point even remotely suggesting that kids listening to disbanded bands was a good way to measure the welbeing of a genre.

I did, however, mention that there are tons of metal bands active now, from a wide variety of subgenres and from all over the globe. We are most likely living in the time when there has been the most active metal bands at the same time in the entire history of the genre. And that is a sign that metal is pretty much the opposite of dying.

Ok I guess I misunderstood then


But

Many bands isn't necessarly a good thing either.
Especially when many fans only target a certain subgenre.

Back in the days, few bands, with bigger fanbases per band. And there was just "heavy/thrash/glam" so it wasn't many different subgenres to choose from.

Now, many bands, with smaller fanbases. And you have a million different subgenres and each fan sticks to the ones they like.

And the smaller fanbases today are also less likely to actually buy stuff.
Because we are used to get free music on Youtube and Spotify.

Spotify doesnt exactly generate enough money to make a living for bands.


I have read interviews with bands from the past like early 80s, who quits their jobs to play music only.
Some worked out, some didnt, obviously, but at least they gambled with it without being massive bands.

But how many smaller bands quit their jobs TODAY to play music?

Jari of Wintersun maybe? :lol:


With smaller fanbases per subgenre/band its way less likely that a new band rockets to the top, and even if they do, they still have to flip burgers, not being able to do music full-time.

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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:58 am 
 

So, what new bands, from the last 5 years, are fully sustainable by themselves, and would headline festivals, if we pretend Covid isnt a thing?

I checked a festival roaster of bands:
Almost all bands that was high up was between 15-50 years old from formation.
Youngest band in headlining level was like 15 years, I think. So a very old band.

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Red_Death
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 762
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 2:40 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
So, what new bands, from the last 5 years, are fully sustainable by themselves, and would headline festivals, if we pretend Covid isnt a thing?

Why do you (seemingly) equate being a "fully sustainable" band with headlining festivals? Newer bands face "competition" in established acts that draw a crowd, so it's not a level playing field at all in terms of headliner slots.

Not to mention, not all festivals are created equal.
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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 981
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:08 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
Teens listening to dead or retired bands isn't a sign of welbeing for a genre...

They should support young bands instead of fossils.

A) Spending $20 on buying a Motörhead "England" t-shirt...
B) Or spending $20 on an up-and-coming young band that really needs it?

Most teens would more likely do the FIRST options.
Because its "cooooool" to have a Motörhead "England" shirt.
Or a Black Sabbath "Masters Of Reality" shirt.
Even tho its a complete waste of money.

Pretty ignorant take on things. Those are their gateway bands and they're great bands. If they find their way to new younger bands from there then all good, and if they're inspired to form a band then wicked.
People can support whoever they like and spend their money on whoever they like.

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In_Zane
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:51 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
Teens listening to dead or retired bands isn't a sign of welbeing for a genre...

They should support young bands instead of fossils.

A) Spending $20 on buying a Motörhead "England" t-shirt...
B) Or spending $20 on an up-and-coming young band that really needs it?

Most teens would more likely do the FIRST options.
Because its "cooooool" to have a Motörhead "England" shirt.
Or a Black Sabbath "Masters Of Reality" shirt.
Even tho its a complete waste of money.

But if they like Motörhead/Black Sabbath, and not the ''young band'', why should they waste $20 on a shirt to support them?
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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:09 am 
 

Because Lemmy died several years ago and doesnt need that money

Maybe they can give this band the $20 instead?
Never heard before but found them wh en searching for "sounds like Motörhead"
:lol:



For fans of Black Sabbath, there's a whole ocean of bands that sounds like them


Last edited by Turok12 on Thu May 06, 2021 4:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:10 am 
 

Here's a real kickass young band! Super talented kids


Last edited by Turok12 on Thu May 06, 2021 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 981
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:34 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
Because Lemmy died several years ago and doesnt need that money

Maybe they can give this band the $20 instead?
Never heard before but found them wh en searching for "sounds like Motörhead"
:lol:



For fans of Black Sabbath, there's a whole ocean of bands that sounds like them

The problem with the sounds like bands is that most just aren't as good as the originals. And are you saying that because the artist is dead people shouldn't get into them, cause that's just nuts. Ultimately let the listener decide what they like and what they wanna spend their money on.

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CrippledLucifer
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 669
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:34 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
So, what new bands, from the last 5 years, are fully sustainable by themselves, and would headline festivals, if we pretend Covid isnt a thing?

I checked a festival roaster of bands:
Almost all bands that was high up was between 15-50 years old from formation.
Youngest band in headlining level was like 15 years, I think. So a very old band.

This is a plain bad take. So were 5 year old bands known to headline festivals back in the 80s or something? Or was it the well-established, big bands of the day who got the headline spots? How is this different from today then?
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In_Zane
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:55 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
Because Lemmy died several years ago and doesnt need that money

So you think one should throw away $20 to support someone you give zero fucks about?

I dunno man, I'd rather buy the shirt from the band that I like than the band I dont care for.
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Turok12
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Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:39 am 
 

In_Zane wrote:
Turok12 wrote:
Because Lemmy died several years ago and doesnt need that money

So you think one should throw away $20 to support someone you give zero fucks about?

I dunno man, I'd rather buy the shirt from the band that I like than the band I dont care for.

I'm sure you can also find newer bands to support :)

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In_Zane
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 41
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:41 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
I'm sure you can also find newer bands to support :)


And I do, but I will only support bands that I like.
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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:42 am 
 

CrippledLucifer wrote:
Turok12 wrote:
So, what new bands, from the last 5 years, are fully sustainable by themselves, and would headline festivals, if we pretend Covid isnt a thing?

I checked a festival roaster of bands:
Almost all bands that was high up was between 15-50 years old from formation.
Youngest band in headlining level was like 15 years, I think. So a very old band.

This is a plain bad take. So were 5 year old bands known to headline festivals back in the 80s or something? Or was it the well-established, big bands of the day who got the headline spots? How is this different from today then?

Yes that happened in the 80s

Slayer, Wasp, Metallica are three examples of bands starting off in early 80s and becoming really big in middle of it

Of course, Metallicas size went on beyond wildest dreams in 90s, but thats a very rare thing that will never happen again.

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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:43 am 
 

In_Zane wrote:
Turok12 wrote:
I'm sure you can also find newer bands to support :)


And I do, but I will only support bands that I like.


I never said you should support bands you dont like :lol:

I wouldnt give money to bands I dont like either.

But I rather use my money on smaller bands ratther than Metallica

And the smaller band also have to do something I like.

Right? :lol:

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In_Zane
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:45 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
In_Zane wrote:
Turok12 wrote:
I'm sure you can also find newer bands to support :)


And I do, but I will only support bands that I like.


I never said you should support bands you dont like :lol:

I wouldnt give money to bands I dont like either.

But I rather use my money on smaller bands ratther than Metallica

And the smaller band also have to do something I like.

Right? :lol:

Right!

I dont even like Metallica, personally. I'd def buy a shirt from Cân Bardd or Skyforest, than say... Motörhead (and I love Motörhead).
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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2443
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:53 am 
 

Turok12 wrote:
CrippledLucifer wrote:
Turok12 wrote:
So, what new bands, from the last 5 years, are fully sustainable by themselves, and would headline festivals, if we pretend Covid isnt a thing?

I checked a festival roaster of bands:
Almost all bands that was high up was between 15-50 years old from formation.
Youngest band in headlining level was like 15 years, I think. So a very old band.

This is a plain bad take. So were 5 year old bands known to headline festivals back in the 80s or something? Or was it the well-established, big bands of the day who got the headline spots? How is this different from today then?

Yes that happened in the 80s

Slayer, Wasp, Metallica are three examples of bands starting off in early 80s and becoming really big in middle of it

Of course, Metallicas size went on beyond wildest dreams in 90s, but thats a very rare thing that will never happen again.


I don't know if you noticed, but music evolved during the last 4 decades. You can't compare the radio and tape trading era with the internet and online streaming era like they are exactly the same. No genre works the same as it did 40, 80 or a 120 years ago.

You making up completely arbitrary criteria as to what is "successful" and that it must have been created in the last 5 years is absolutely disconnected from the reality of the scene.

Earlier you also said that people stick to their favorite subgenres and only listen to a handful of bands, which is also plain wrong. Metalheads are known to be music lovers first, and I basically know zero metalhead (except for a handful of kvlt bm geeks) who listen to only one subgenre.

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Turok12
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:57 am 
 

You are right, but I didnt mean it literally about subgenres

Yeah I know its different, we dont have a centralized source of music today, people are free to listen to what they want instead of what whatever radio or MTV was playing a certain day. Its different, not better or worse

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