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Terri23
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:40 pm 
 

Over the past few weeks, uncomfortable and dark allegations have been levelled against individual members of Megadeth and Anathema. Dave Ellefson has been accused of underage grooming, which both Dave and the alleged victim both dispute. Danny Cavanagh, on the other hand, has had many people come forward with allegations of bullying, physical, sexual and violent behaviour. It has been inferred by various sources that Danny is facing criminal charges, and that the allegations are contributory factors that lead the band to go on hiatus.
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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:22 pm 
 

Ellefson's situation sounds like he was fooling around with a girl that was too young to fool around with, and while it may have been consensual, the law being what it is and all, and given the obvious age difference, it certainly doesn't sound very cool. But Cavanaugh's deal sounds just as bad if not worse in my opinion- psychotic and violent abuse. Pedophile vs wife beater- they're both fucked.

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Required Fields
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:28 pm 
 

The female in Ellefson's case said she was 19 at the time. Sure, huge age difference, but not pedophilia, even if he's old enough to be her father (much older, actually).

Assuming the truth is told (and I do believe both are telling the truth), we'll probably forget about it in a week or two.
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TheLoneForest
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:38 pm 
 

Is there any source for Danny's conduct? Reluctant to call someone a wife beater, or any serious title, if the allegations aren't anything more than just being an asshole.

However, if there's evidence of actual physical and/or sexual violence, that's a whole other issue

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InnesI
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:06 am 
 

Required Fields wrote:
The female in Ellefson's case said she was 19 at the time. Sure, huge age difference, but not pedophilia, even if he's old enough to be her father (much older, actually).

Assuming the truth is told (and I do believe both are telling the truth), we'll probably forget about it in a week or two.


Yeah, this is not really anything to get upset over in case of the law or it being paedophilia or anything. Now the age difference is huge and it get weird because of that but I think both Dave and the woman made really good posts about it:

https://loudwire.com/megadeth-david-ell ... legations/

Now obviously I think one should not stray to far off one's owns age, it can get weird (that said I was with someone 10 years older than I when I was about 19-20). But it can't be easy for people to know the other person age either. I have a former colleague who had sex with a very famous guitar player (not metal). She was very proud of it but at the time she was 14 or 16 (in any case under age in England where she is from) but claimed to be of age. Now the guitar player in question probably shouldn't have sex with her anyway because of the age difference but if she claimed to be 18 and looked 18 then it's a tough one to call.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:12 am 
 

TheLoneForest wrote:
Is there any source for Danny's conduct? Reluctant to call someone a wife beater, or any serious title, if the allegations aren't anything more than just being an asshole.

However, if there's evidence of actual physical and/or sexual violence, that's a whole other issue


The Anathema subreddit is blowing up with allegations. Several people have come forward, and I understand Danny is facing some serious charges. I don't know the particulars of the allegations, but they're enough to force Danny to sell some very expensive instruments.
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Turner
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:38 am 
 

I think the Ellefson thing may be a storm in a teacup, but Dave will probably fire him anyway. But if you'd asked me a week ago who were the least likely metal musicians to be into that sorta thing, I would've had Ellefson at the top of my list along with like Paul Gilbert and Kim Thayil, haha. But here we are.

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Space_alligator
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:21 am 
 

Is Ellefson the victim here though?

He (stupidly) engaged in an activity with a legal-aged concenting person, who against his knowlage, recorded and shared the said footage.

Moral aspects of the age gap, (and on that matter, Mick Jagger is a worse offender) infidelity and breach of his Lutheran studies aside...
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MawBTS
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:24 am 
 

Apparently there's a video online of Ellefson whacking off.

It's embarrassing because he's a married man and probably the most consistently outspoken Christian in the band, but whatever. Doesn't seem like he did anything illegal.

Quote:
The Anathema subreddit is blowing up with allegations.


I encourage everyone to avoid the Anathema subreddit unless you want to melt your brain. It's a mess of deleted posts, anonymous accusations, flamewars, sockpuppet accounts, and one-sided conversations that make no sense because someone nuked their entire post history. Don't even waste your time trying to understand what's going on.

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Methuen
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:41 am 
 

MawBTS wrote:
I encourage everyone to avoid the Anathema subreddit unless you want to melt your brain. It's a mess of deleted posts, anonymous accusations, flamewars, sockpuppet accounts, and one-sided conversations that make no sense because someone nuked their entire post history. Don't even waste your time trying to understand what's going on.


I'd agree on ignoring reddit; If there's anything in it, the British press & music industry will be hashtagging themselves blind within a couple of weeks, they love this kind of stuff when it's happening to someone else. DC has always been known as a moody bastard, whether that's translated into actual bad behaviour will be interesting to see. Shame if it did, music needs less of 'em.
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HR90
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:14 am 
 

MawBTS wrote:
Apparently there's a video online of Ellefson whacking off.

It's embarrassing because he's a married man and probably the most consistently outspoken Christian in the band, but whatever. Doesn't seem like he did anything illegal.

A lot of people already saw the videos. Including where is jacking off (not just one).

-

Megadeth Facebook Page released a statement some hours ago.

We are aware of the recent statements regarding David Ellefson, and are watching developments closely.

As it relates to creativity and business, we are all familiar with one another. However, there are clearly aspects of David’s private life that he has kept to himself.

As this situation unfolds, it is important that all voices be heard clearly and respectfully. We look forward to the truth coming to light.



https://www.facebook.com/Megadeth/posts/314841366671947

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Gunslinger21
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:21 am 
 

Just goes to show, famous or not people are people at the end of the day. Must be embarrassing to him. I don't understand how a man can be attracted to a young girl like that though. As I get older, I stay attracted to women my age or a bit older. If I look back at people my age minus five years, I just see them as kids, let alone a big gap like that.

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Turner
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:04 am 
 

Gunslinger21 wrote:
Just goes to show, famous or not people are people at the end of the day. Must be embarrassing to him. I don't understand how a man can be attracted to a young girl like that though. As I get older, I stay attracted to women my age or a bit older. If I look back at people my age minus five years, I just see them as kids, let alone a big gap like that.


You kidding? I'm 37, work at a university, and every day I see girls on campus that are probably ~20 and think "jeez, if only I was 15 years younger".
My testosterone levels are low (like I get annoyed if my GF wants sex more than once a week) but those girls are still well and truly attractive.

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naudr
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:17 am 
 

It's no secret that Danny is a rather unsavoury character and prima donna, but the allegations that came around in the summer are quite serious. The band also utterly disappeared and everything has been silent. Their official page has deleted a crapload of comments as well which makes it even worse. Danny also got caught commenting on Reddit, YT and other platforms which doesn't help the situation.

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:30 am 
 

MawBTS wrote:
Apparently there's a video online of Ellefson whacking off.

It's embarrassing because he's a married man and probably the most consistently outspoken Christian in the band, but whatever. Doesn't seem like he did anything illegal.


If he did bribe her to make that statement, that would be illegal.

Plus the whole thing is just plain fucking shitty and regardless of it being consensual and her not being underage, still makes him come across as a creepy hypocrite. Then again, a lot of conservative christians are. The music world is full of older men doing this sort of thing (and way worse) so if the chickens are coming home to roost then good.
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InnesI
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:43 am 
 

Space_alligator wrote:
Is Ellefson the victim here though?

He (stupidly) engaged in an activity with a legal-aged concenting person, who against his knowlage, recorded and shared the said footage.

Moral aspects of the age gap, (and on that matter, Mick Jagger is a worse offender) infidelity and breach of his Lutheran studies aside...


Yeah, his actions may be inappropriate and morally wrong (especially considering his faith and marriage) but isn't the only thing illegal in this situation the actual spreading of the video of him masturbating? Or perhaps that's not illegal in the US? Who did spread it? The woman or someone else?

HR90 wrote:
MawBTS wrote:
Megadeth Facebook Page released a statement some hours ago.

We are aware of the recent statements regarding David Ellefson, and are watching developments closely.

As it relates to creativity and business, we are all familiar with one another. However, there are clearly aspects of David’s private life that he has kept to himself.

As this situation unfolds, it is important that all voices be heard clearly and respectfully. We look forward to the truth coming to light.


https://www.facebook.com/Megadeth/posts/314841366671947



Classy and absolutely the right way to go about things.
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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:58 am 
 

InnesI wrote:
Space_alligator wrote:
Is Ellefson the victim here though?

He (stupidly) engaged in an activity with a legal-aged concenting person, who against his knowlage, recorded and shared the said footage.

Moral aspects of the age gap, (and on that matter, Mick Jagger is a worse offender) infidelity and breach of his Lutheran studies aside...


Yeah, his actions may be inappropriate and morally wrong (especially considering his faith and marriage) but isn't the only thing illegal in this situation the actual spreading of the video of him masturbating? Or perhaps that's not illegal in the US? Who did spread it? The woman or someone else?


Well the woman in question mentioned in her statement that she was "naive enough to record him and share it with a friend without his permission" so I have to assume that the leaks either came from the friend or someone the friend shared the video with. I doubt it came from her, since everything we've learned so far points to her not wanting any of this to come out in the first place.

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wizard_of_bore
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:07 am 
 

Very interesting story that this has come out against Dave. I have a lets call her a social media friend, who was hit on, practically harassed by someone in a very big name band. She said no to a hook up. He was so relentless he said lets just go out to dinner. When that didn't work, then it was well here are tickets and backstage passes. She loves the band, but there is a 30 year difference in their age. I really don't think the attraction is there on her part. Also talking to her many, many times I do not get the impression she is that type of person anyway. I saw chats and pictures of them at dinner. She presented him with some artwork she had done and in the picture it is very clear he is feigning interest. There is a story of him using someone else in another band. The guy is a real snake. Just the same, they are both of legal age. Really nobodies business, unless one of them wants someone to know.
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EricJ
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:48 am 
 

Turner wrote:
Gunslinger21 wrote:
Just goes to show, famous or not people are people at the end of the day. Must be embarrassing to him. I don't understand how a man can be attracted to a young girl like that though. As I get older, I stay attracted to women my age or a bit older. If I look back at people my age minus five years, I just see them as kids, let alone a big gap like that.


You kidding? I'm 37, work at a university, and every day I see girls on campus that are probably ~20 and think "jeez, if only I was 15 years younger".
My testosterone levels are low (like I get annoyed if my GF wants sex more than once a week) but those girls are still well and truly attractive.



Agreed, I've dated women 10 years younger than me and 10 years older, attractive women are attractive women. He is clearly a normal heterosexual male with a working libido, nothing to see here. I do think sexting is dumb though.

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Inkshooter
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:56 am 
 

The Ellefson thing is weird, but not criminal. Don't really care about it.

The Cavanagh accusations are far more serious, hope he gets more than just a slap on the wrist.
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InnesI
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:21 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
Well the woman in question mentioned in her statement that she was "naive enough to record him and share it with a friend without his permission" so I have to assume that the leaks either came from the friend or someone the friend shared the video with. I doubt it came from her, since everything we've learned so far points to her not wanting any of this to come out in the first place.


Guess I didn't read it carefully enough. If that's the case I guess she could actually be fined for spreading the video (if the laws are similar as the ones we have in Sweden).
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CoconutBackwards
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:45 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
I think the Ellefson thing may be a storm in a teacup, but Dave will probably fire him anyway. But if you'd asked me a week ago who were the least likely metal musicians to be into that sorta thing, I would've had Ellefson at the top of my list along with like Paul Gilbert and Kim Thayil, haha. But here we are.


Kim Thayil is way too busy getting sued daily by Chris Cornell's widow.
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TadGhostal
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:11 pm 
 

Regarding Ellefson, what is the origin of the "she's underage and he was grooming her" charge? I didn't hear about this situation until he issued his statement. If she was of age, then, yeah, its unseemly but not illegal. I would think that the person who shared this info would be in some legal trouble since it sounds like it was shared without the consent of Ellefson or the woman involved.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:27 pm 
 

If the woman Ellefson slept with was of legal age and consented, I don't think we can really judge from outside. Sure, we may wonder about the power dynamics and vulnerability of a younger woman, but I mean, unless we know there was any form of abuse or manipulation, it's not really our place to judge. People are allowed to have sex with whoever they want.

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:51 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
If the woman Ellefson slept with was of legal age and consented, I don't think we can really judge from outside. Sure, we may wonder about the power dynamics and vulnerability of a younger woman, but I mean, unless we know there was any form of abuse or manipulation, it's not really our place to judge. People are allowed to have sex with whoever they want.


He never actually slept with her. From what I gather from what's been reported he never met her in person, they were just texting and she put on a private camshow of sorts for him (which is why there are videos), but their communication was basically only online.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:12 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
If the woman Ellefson slept with was of legal age and consented, I don't think we can really judge from outside. Sure, we may wonder about the power dynamics and vulnerability of a younger woman, but I mean, unless we know there was any form of abuse or manipulation, it's not really our place to judge. People are allowed to have sex with whoever they want.


He never actually slept with her. From what I gather from what's been reported he never met her in person, they were just texting and she put on a private camshow of sorts for him (which is why there are videos), but their communication was basically only online.


So people are making a fuss out of Ellefson watching a woman of legal age do a cam show for him? Am I missing something?

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Kalaratri
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:23 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Kalaratri wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
If the woman Ellefson slept with was of legal age and consented, I don't think we can really judge from outside. Sure, we may wonder about the power dynamics and vulnerability of a younger woman, but I mean, unless we know there was any form of abuse or manipulation, it's not really our place to judge. People are allowed to have sex with whoever they want.


He never actually slept with her. From what I gather from what's been reported he never met her in person, they were just texting and she put on a private camshow of sorts for him (which is why there are videos), but their communication was basically only online.


So people are making a fuss out of Ellefson watching a woman of legal age do a cam show for him? Am I missing something?


Basically, yes. Assuming everything reported so far is accurate (and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary so far) what transpired amounts to him texting a woman who's of legal age and getting off to what was essentially a very sexually explicit video chat. The main concern of those making a big deal out of it is whether she was underage and being groomed, but she's apparently come out to refute those claims so there seem to be no laws broken here. Aside from that it just comes down to people being uncomfortable with sexual relationships when the age gaps are what they are in this case. I can understand that sentiment but if they're both legally adults and consent to the relationship I'm of the opinion that it's none of my business and not my place to pass judgment on it.

Realistically aside from the embarrassment this has caused Ellefson, his family, and Megadeth there's not much else to talk about. I'm sure people will go on about how he's a hypocrite for having this public image of a devout Christian and then doing something like this and it obviously sucks for his family (I don't see his marriage lasting too much longer, but I can't say anything for sure and it's none of my business anyway) but I don't really see much to this story otherwise. I guess Dave might decide to fire him from Megadeth if he feels the band's getting too much negative publicity from this, but that remains to be seen.


Last edited by Kalaratri on Tue May 11, 2021 3:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Helvede
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:31 pm 
 

Best thing for Megadeth right now would be to release that new album!

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Curious_dead
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:32 pm 
 

TBH the posts that I first saw about this were extremely sensationalist and unprofessional. People were straight calling him a pedophile before even knowing the facts. Like we say here, I think it's a "pétard mouillé" (i.e. there's nothing here from what I can tell so far).

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:46 pm 
 

Kalaratri wrote:
Basically, yes. Assuming everything reported so far is accurate (and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary so far) what transpired amounts to him texting a woman who's of legal age and getting off to what was essentially a very sexually explicit video chat. The main concern of those making a big deal out of it is whether she was underage and being groomed, but she's apparently come out to refute those claims so there seem to be no laws broken here. Aside from that it just comes down to people being uncomfortable with sexual relationships when the age gaps are what they are in this case. I can understand that sentiment but if they're both legally adults and consent to the relationship I'm of the opinion that it's none of my business and not my place to pass judgment on it.

Realistically aside from the embarrassment this has caused Ellefson, his family, and Megadeth there's not much else to talk about. I'm sure people will go on about how he's a hypocrite for having this public image of a devout Christian and then doing something like this and it obviously sucks for his family (I don't see his marriage lasting too much longer, but I can't say anything for sure and it's none of my business anyway) but I don't really see much to this story otherwise. I guess Dave might decide to fire him from Megadeth if he feels the band's getting too much negative publicity from this, but that remains to be seen.


Oh so he was married and in a committed monogamous relationship. I didn't know much about his personnal life, but yeah, that's pretty bad too. Cheating is not cool, David.

As for his exchanges with the woman, I do agree that, beyond the fact that he's an hypocritical douche, we shouldn't be passing judgements if both consented to this. Like I said earlier, of course I understand people's concerns when it comes to people with a significant age difference dating or having sex because of the possible inequities in the power dynamics. But age alone doesn't necessarly make it an uneven relationship.

So yeah, beyond the fact that he's being an hypocritical douche and cheating on his wife, there doesn't seem to be a moral issue, and certainly not a legal issue, with this.

Mustaine might end up firing him again for this though. you are right.

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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:28 pm 
 

I think he'll wind up getting kicked out/leaving regardless, but it's still early to say for sure one way or the other.

Also, is it just me, or has anyone else noticed how relatively quiet Mustaine has been about his Alex Jones-esque weirdness lately? I'm guessing there was a closed door meeting with management and/or the label where they probably told him to knock it off.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:34 pm 
 

David Ellefson is, at best, guilty of being another hypocrite minister that cheated on his wife as a man of God. At worst, he's a pedophile.
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OpsiusCato
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:41 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
At worst, he's a pedophile.

Just how exactly is it pedophilia when the woman was a consenting adult?
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:51 pm 
 

He's saying that's the worst case scenario: that he likes his women young enough to cross the line and/or that whatever he'd been doing with this woman had been going on long enough to cross that threshold.

That doesn't really seem to be the case here though, and I think initial news stories jumped to that conclusion because everything else in Hellworld is always the worst case scenario, but it seems more likely that he's just a weird, creepy hypocrite who wound up having a super embarrassing video leak out onto the internet.
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Dandelo
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:13 pm 
 

Dave Ellefson thing is really embarrassing. Like, you wonder why people have no common sense.

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Cheapsteaks
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:54 pm 
 

I mean a 56 year old guy hooking up with a 19 year old is legal, but anyone who casually hears about it is going to wrinkle their nose at the sheer skeeviness of it. He probably didn't think it would leak online or anything, but sometimes that shit comes back to bite you in the ass, married, Christian, whatever. At least he can be born again AGAIN and start another, more forgiven ministry.
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CloggedUrethra
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:30 am
Posts: 483
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:52 pm 
 

Pedophilia is the sexual attraction to prepubescent children. The word "pedophile" gets thrown around as much as "nazi" does these days.
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BarryLamarBonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:36 pm
Posts: 341
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:53 pm 
 

ModusOperandi wrote:
I think he'll wind up getting kicked out/leaving regardless, but it's still early to say for sure one way or the other.

Also, is it just me, or has anyone else noticed how relatively quiet Mustaine has been about his Alex Jones-esque weirdness lately? I'm guessing there was a closed door meeting with management and/or the label where they probably told him to knock it off.


He recently dealt with cancer, it's entirely possible, even probable, that he put more energy into friends and family than he did his career or public persona.

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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2446
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:54 pm 
 

Cheapsteaks wrote:
I mean a 56 year old guy hooking up with a 19 year old is legal, but anyone who casually hears about it is going to wrinkle their nose at the sheer skeeviness of it.


Meanwhile, "teens" is still one of the most popular searches on porn websites.

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Death By Wall of Text
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:18 pm
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:01 pm 
 

As for Danny Cavanagh - the only thing I want to say so far, since I found nothing concrete when searching for it myself (adjusting search terms multiple times), and based on what I know: don't rush to judgement and wait for any concrete facts to surface. There's been something very weird going on around him and the band for at least a year, which seems to have been stirred up by one or two former band members (and early rumours had been shut down hard last year by another Anathema member). There's literally nothing available in public so far that allows to form any real opinion.

And while he's hardly known to be the easiest guy to get along with, he's always struck me as someone with a short fuse and acting before thinking rather than some kind of narcissistic manipulator (I literally met the guy twice and you can plain read his mood on his face). Which means he either is prone to doing dumb bad things, or is easy to paint as such by an actual manipulator. Plus he literally announced a new solo album this week, which if there were accusations building up as we speak, would be either the most unbelievably dumb or incredibly cynical move ever (and I'm sceptical about the latter, see two sentences earlier).

The whole thing is strange and surreal, and I saw some glimpses when I was still using Facebook. Wait and see, and if people come forward on a more credible source than reddit then it's a different situation.

EDIT: I spent some time reading that subreddit and I only stand by my opinion more. It's impossible to tell who is who and 90% of the accounts arguing there have 2-4 comments on them. Trying to form an opinion now is pointless.

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