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jimbies
Noose Springsteen

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
Posts: 3242
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:46 am 
 

Benedict wrote:
Black 13 on Exodus' Blood in Blood Out. Easily the weakest, least memorable track on the album.


Yeah. and that annoying goddamn ringing.

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1206
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:36 am 
 

DungeonShade wrote:
It's not terrible but I'll generally skip 'Wreath' off Opeth's 'Deliverance'. Mediocre and quite long.

'Ghost of the Sun' rules! Also 'Criminals' :lol:


Eh, I always appreciated Criminals' cinematic vibe. Wreath is one of my favorites from Opeth in general. It demolishes!!! Lol. I like how dense and enveloping it sounds and the length always felt appropriate to me.
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draconiondevil
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:21 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:57 am 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Black Sabbath - Mob Rules. Turn Up The Night is possibly the weakest song the Dio line up ever wrote.


Bruh that song jams.

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 488
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 1:25 pm 
 

draconiondevil wrote:
Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Black Sabbath - Mob Rules. Turn Up The Night is possibly the weakest song the Dio line up ever wrote.


Bruh that song jams.


B-side material at best IMO. Title track would have been a far better opener.

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Ace_Rimmer
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 1974
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 2:45 pm 
 

jimbies wrote:
For nostalgic purposes:

Mouth for War on Vulgar Display of Power by Pantera. Not that it's particularly a bad song, but I think A New Level is a perfect opener for an album. I loved when they were opening shows with that song.


Man we disagree on that one since that is my favorite Pantera cut. The problem is the album drops off so much after that raging slab of testosterone and bravado.

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299796kms
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:28 pm
Posts: 432
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 4:18 pm 
 

Wake Up Dead. It's a fine song but as an opener it's rather weak, especially given the other tracks on this album.
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1206
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:53 pm 
 

299796kms wrote:
Wake Up Dead. It's a fine song but as an opener it's rather weak, especially given the other tracks on this album.


What the hell? The entire side one of Peace Sells is amazing the way it is that I wouldn't change the order for anything. Wake Up Dead is a classic Megadeth song too. Chris Poland's leads on that are genius.
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Xytras71
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:57 am
Posts: 377
Location: Toronto, Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 10:13 pm 
 

Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
299796kms wrote:
Wake Up Dead. It's a fine song but as an opener it's rather weak, especially given the other tracks on this album.


What the hell? The entire side one of Peace Sells is amazing the way it is that I wouldn't change the order for anything. Wake Up Dead is a classic Megadeth song too. Chris Poland's leads on that are genius.


Agreed! Nothing wrong with Wake Up Dead... but I am biased, easily top 5 Thrash album of all time for me, haha

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MutilatorOfSouls
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 19, 2021 11:03 pm
Posts: 5
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 11:22 pm 
 

Silvester Anfang from Mayhem's Deathcrush.

I don't know, this song just doesn't really fit in the album, considering it's a track from an electronic producer on an EP composed of shittly recorded Black Metal songs.

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Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 1:08 am 
 

299796kms wrote:
Wake Up Dead. It's a fine song but as an opener it's rather weak, especially given the other tracks on this album.
Yeah, I agree; I mean, it starts off well enough, but then 'deth randomly transitions to those boring riffs that start at about the 45 second mark, and just plays them over and over for the next minute (which feels like a year), before ending it with those technically impressive, but still fairly gratuitous, pointless solos after that, and the song as a whole just doesn't build or flow very well. Definitely one of the weaker songs on Peace Sells..., IMO.
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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 1101
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 2:15 am 
 

That's funny, it's probably my favorite on the album along with My Last Words and I find Mustaine's solos (on both actually but talking about Wake Up Dead here) to be one of, if not the, best of his career. Particularly how he starts off the solo in the breakdown is total fire!
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Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 952
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 2:21 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
That's funny, it's probably my favorite on the album along with My Last Words and I find Mustaine's solos (on both actually but talking about Wake Up Dead here) to be one of, if not the, best of his career. Particularly how he starts off the solo in the breakdown is total fire!
It's an extremely well-played solo, as expected from 'deth, but the problem with it is that it feels randomly placed in order to get the energy level of the song back up again, which is why it doesn't work for me.
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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2017
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 4:27 am 
 

I'm going to have to agree with the people DISagreeing with Wake Up Dead. That breakdown in in the last half of the song is phenomenal, better than even Raining Blood's breakdown.... and yes, awesome soloing in that part too.

As far as Turn Up the Night VS The Mob Rules (title track), I vastly prefer Turn Up the Night. The intermittent short leads definitely elevate the song way past what it would otherwise be without them. Every song on Mob Rules is good, but I'd put the title track on the same level as Slipping Away. Not bad songs, but the album wouldn't particularly suffer without them (shortened length not withstanding).

Honestly I don't think I can even think of one album I would consider great where the leadoff track is kind of a stinker. I can think of some great albums where I think the lead off track is weaker than (most of) the rest of the album, but this is about "bad" openers, not "ok" openers.

Oh, here's a possibility, but I don't think I would consider this album GREAT, but I do like it: Sleep's The Sciences. Fuck that opening track. :lol:

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1206
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 11:17 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
That's funny, it's probably my favorite on the album along with My Last Words and I find Mustaine's solos (on both actually but talking about Wake Up Dead here) to be one of, if not the, best of his career. Particularly how he starts off the solo in the breakdown is total fire!


YES! Like, talk about memorable solos and tasty leads. Ugh! Wake Up Dead is so good. It makes perfect sense for Megadeth to lead off with a flashy quirky number as they prepare you for the heady stuff that follows after. Always loved it as an opener, it makes for a good concert opener too.

Smalley wrote:
It's an extremely well-played solo, as expected from 'deth, but the problem with it is that it feels randomly placed in order to get the energy level of the song back up again, which is why it doesn't work for me.


That was just Dave and co. showing some sophistication. I don't mind that they had to sacrifice flow for it because Megadeth always were best when they operated outside of the conventions of thrash. Can't set the trends if you're following them. It's a quirky track but also innovative - and guitar player porn.
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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 5472
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 1:47 pm 
 

Wake Up Dead is one of the best songs on Peace Sells but with the somewhat jumbled start and so many tempo changes in such a short length, I can see why folks would have issues with it as an opening song. I could see it being the second song with something like The Conjuring or Devil's Island at the beginning instead.

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Oh, here's a possibility, but I don't think I would consider this album GREAT, but I do like it: Sleep's The Sciences. Fuck that opening track. :lol:


I really don't know what they were thinking with that track. It would've been better if it was shorter or had some of the NASA transmission audio that they play at the start of their gigs, but it's a very tedious way to kick things off.
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Texas King
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 84
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 7:39 am 
 

The Wolf Is Loose on Mastodon's Blood Mountain.
It's not bad, but it's mediocre.

My hot take: Fight Fire with Fire on Ride the Lightning.
I consider it to be the weakest track on the album. Yep, weaker than Escape. I find it to be a quite messy combination of thrash and speed metal and the chorus is kinda boring.

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King_of_Arnor
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm
Posts: 104
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:12 am 
 

Wake Up Dead just floors me with how unexpectedly complex it becomes, it feels like you're navigating a mental maze with all the different riffs and solos. It subverts your initial expectations of Peace Sells being "just another thrash album" in a huge way and sets the tone for the rest of the album. Might even be one of my top 5 favourite Megadeth songs.

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Texas King
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 84
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 10:00 am 
 

Wake Up Dead is my second favorite track off Peace Sells, behind Black Friday.

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Liquid_Braino
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:25 am
Posts: 553
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 8:17 am 
 

Yeah, "Wake Up Dead" is great, and I can't imagine the album commencing without that song's opening riff.

One opener I don't care for is My Dying Bride's "Sear Me MCMXCIII" from Turn Loose the Swans. The first time I heard it, it was an interesting, unexpected surprise. But after that initial experience, I just considered it an overlong ballad slog version of the much better original from As the Flower Withers. I tend to skip it, as "Your River" feels like a much better opener.

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MetalVermont
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:23 pm
Posts: 31
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 10:55 am 
 

Texas King wrote:
The Wolf Is Loose on Mastodon's Blood Mountain.
It's not bad, but it's mediocre.

My hot take: Fight Fire with Fire on Ride the Lightning.
I consider it to be the weakest track on the album. Yep, weaker than Escape. I find it to be a quite messy combination of thrash and speed metal and the chorus is kinda boring.


LOL

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Mystic_Stylez
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 2:22 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 12:26 pm 
 

Me personally, I like it if a metal album has a weaker but song than the rest of the album. It makes me more impressed by the whole album and makes me listen to it more. For example, Morbid Angel’s Domination album. The first song Dominate is short, weaker but straight forward but keeps me going and by time I’m in the middle I’ll be at Dawn of the Angry which is a great track but there’s more and you still wanna listen to it with no skipping and by the last song Hatework I’m like “damn this is a great album” and ends with maybe the best closer for an album. On the other hand, an album like “Transylvanian Hunger” by Darkthrone starts off with the title track which is like their most popular and catchiest song but should’ve not been an opener. I am saying that in my experience because when I bought the album it started great but the rest of the album is less better and harder to get into but it’s still a great album though it’s just the other tracks aren’t that catchy. I don’t know, it’s just me and I don’t know if it makes sense but yeah if the opener is really is a bad song I guess it makes one get less excited for the album so yes it matters to some extent.

But if I’m gonna list one, it’ll probably be Enter Sandman just like someone mentioned. It’s a great track specially before but as of now, it’s their cheesiest song off that album and starting off with it makes you realize how messed up it is that with this album, they changed their style to sell out or whatever. It didn’t matter at the time of its release I loved it back in the day because its one of my first Metallica songs but now that I know better, it’s a cheesy and it’s a turn off to start with. Makes me not wanna listen to the Black Album really.

I’ll think of more later. Cheers.

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Psychedelicatessen
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 7:58 pm
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 4:17 pm 
 

I consider Forbidden by Black Sabbath to be great, much like their other 19 records; but the opener "The Illusion of Power" tends to ruin the album in the eyes of everyone. I enjoy it regardless, but they weren't exactly putting their best foot forward with that one. It doesn't help that Ice-T did a 13 second spoken word part later in the song, which apparently equates to "Black Sabbath going hip-hop" according to the low-IQ fanbase.

Texas King wrote:
My hot take: Fight Fire with Fire on Ride the Lightning.

I don't think too much thought went into that song past the fake-out harpsicord intro, but I'd still much rather listen to that than Call of Ktulu.

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Ludicus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:07 am
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 5:57 pm 
 

I also have to second Fight Fire With Fire as bad. For me it's the staggered vocal delivery which kinda drags it down, if it makes sense.

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MetlaNZ
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 981
Location: Lost in Necropolis
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 6:06 pm 
 

Ludicus wrote:
I also have to second Fight Fire With Fire as bad. For me it's the staggered vocal delivery which kinda drags it down, if it makes sense.

Goddamned heresy! FFFWFF is exactly how you should open a thrash metal album.

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Lissart
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:39 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Land Where Sympathy Is Air
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 7:09 am 
 

Let me take up two interesting examples. Firstly, let's start with the title track off Napalm Death's Apex Predator - Easy Meat album. Many people disliked the idea of opening the album with such a radically different industrial track completely devoid of guitars. The last part of the song, however, is brilliant and would serve as a great opener if 85% of the actual track got removed. Personally, I think that opening the album with Smash a Single Digit would make much more sense.

Secondly, Gojira's Magma. The Shooting Star is a really bland track with maybe 3 riffs that keep repeating all over its time span. Quite boring and devoid of energy. Works quite good in a live setting, but even though it's the opening track of the album, during the Magma tour they opted for opening their gigs with Only Pain, which is a track buried deep in the tracklist of the album. In my opinion, they should have opened Magma with either of the singles that were released before the album came out - Stranded or Silvera.

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megadeth93
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:20 pm
Posts: 103
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 12:10 pm 
 

Here's two from the Christian Death Metal scene:

With Sacrificium's Cold Black Piece of Flesh and Mortification's Erasing the Goblin album, I will skip the first track on each. The Sacrificium album has Come Closer and Existence as second and third song and they are outstanding Death Metal.

Give that Mort album a second chance if you have written it off - probably it's their best and most pure Death Metal album since Scrolls of the Megilloth. Third track is the speedy, blast-beat-infested The Dead Shall Be Judged while we get some doom/death on six-minute-long fourth track Escape the Blasphemous Tabernacle. Fifth track Your Time is back to speedy Death Metal.

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megadeth93
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:20 pm
Posts: 103
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 12:15 pm 
 

Ludicus wrote:
I also have to second Fight Fire With Fire as bad. For me it's the staggered vocal delivery which kinda drags it down, if it makes sense.


Back in 1984 though, the speed of that song was absolutely mind-blowing, especially if you hadn't heard the first Slayer album, I was 15 at the time and a Judas Priest/Iron Maiden fan, and that song really opened my eyes to something amazingly fresh and powerful. The punks at school were claiming Metallica as one of their own, maybe they hadn't seen the band pictures.

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goetia_unreleased
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:35 pm
Posts: 55
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 12:36 pm 
 

For me Heavenwood - Diva comes to mind. I almost always skip the first song. Occasionally I revisit the song to see if I can get it to click with me, but always fall short.
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MetalVermont
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:23 pm
Posts: 31
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 8:50 pm 
 

Ludicus wrote:
I also have to second Fight Fire With Fire as bad. For me it's the staggered vocal delivery which kinda drags it down, if it makes sense.


Sure. Can’t wait to hear how Battery, Blackened, and Painkiller are terrible album openers too.

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Texas King
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 84
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 7:03 am 
 

MetalVermont wrote:
Ludicus wrote:
I also have to second Fight Fire With Fire as bad. For me it's the staggered vocal delivery which kinda drags it down, if it makes sense.


Sure. Can’t wait to hear how Battery, Blackened, and Painkiller are terrible album openers too.


Battery and Blackened are much better than Fight Fire with Fire.

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jimbies
Noose Springsteen

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:52 pm
Posts: 3242
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:44 am 
 

Fight Fire With Fire is one of my favourite Metallica songs.

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Spiner202
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2297
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:50 am 
 

Fight Fire With Fire is one of the most obvious examples of what makes Hetfield great as a writer of vocal rhythms. He always writes the rhythms first and fits the lyrics to them, while a bunch of other singers do the opposite. In FFWF, he just matches up the vocals to the accent notes in the guitar line and it's awesome. I'll agree that Battery and Blackened are better, but that's more of a comment on how good those latter two songs are than anything being wrong with FFWF.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29644
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:55 am 
 

Ride the Lightning is like Slayer's debut in that both thrash the fuck out, but also have that ultra melodic sense as well that separates them from how the genre became later. "Fight Fire with Fire" rules I think. A brushfire of a tune.
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des91
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:51 pm
Posts: 95
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 11:07 am 
 

FFWF, honestly might be my favorite song by them. As a fan of Brutal Thrash, it sounds amazing and would fit right in on any Slayer or Dark Angel album. I think it’s better than Battery and just a ball hair better than Blackened.

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MetalVermont
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:23 pm
Posts: 31
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 9:14 pm 
 

des91 wrote:
FFWF, honestly might be my favorite song by them. As a fan of Brutal Thrash, it sounds amazing and would fit right in on any Slayer or Dark Angel album. I think it’s better than Battery and just a ball hair better than Blackened.


So true. Can’t believe we live in a world where we have to defend it against newbs and their “hot takes”.

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 1101
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 4:20 am 
 

Angel of Death is cool and all but clearly weak and plodding compared to the rest of the alb....

Yeah, this is getting a bit ridiculous now. FFWF is monumental, iconic, a damn classic and a legendary opener that had a gazillion bands emulate the classic/beautiful intro that breaks into mayhem. And for 1984, in the boiling thrash scene having that kind of intro says so much about the Cliff Burton influence than words (he wrote the intro) - the most brutal thrash of the time (seriously) introduced with beautiful melodies. One of a kind.
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Metal Shark
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:05 am 
 

Alcoholic Suicide by Magnus. The album is some great death/thrash, but the first song is some gawdawful noisy SHIT. Surprised me when I first heard the full album, as I'd heard one track on a compilation that I really liked!

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Metal Shark
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:06 am 
 

INVADERS RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D :-D :-D


Yes, the lyrics are a little cheesy!

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King_of_Arnor
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm
Posts: 104
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:46 am 
 

Metal Shark wrote:
INVADERS RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D :-D :-D


Yes, the lyrics are a little cheesy!


Honestly Invaders is actually good, I don't understand why it gets so much flak as a "bad opener". Every single 80s Maiden album had an excellent opener.

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Gravetemplar
Veteran

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 2660
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 10:00 am 
 

To be honest, The Number of the Beast isn't one of my favourite Maiden albums. Invaders isn't the worst song in there, Gangland is much worse. Children of the Damned, Run to the Hills and Hallowed Be Thy Name are some of the best tracks they've done but I've never really connected with the rest of the album.

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