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SmallPoxie
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:56 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:51 am 
 

Basically albums that are good but the first song is actually pretty mediocre, bad or just straight trash.

What examples we have on this in Metal?

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lordcatfish
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:34 am 
 

Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast (Invaders)

Whilst I don't think this is that bad a song (from reading around I'd say I like it more than most), I think there's a big disparity in quality between it and the rest of the album.
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Methuen
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:55 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:49 am 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast (Invaders)

Whilst I don't think this is that bad a song (from reading around I'd say I like it more than most), I think there's a big disparity in quality between it and the rest of the album.


Now now, what's wrong with "Invaaaadeeers, PILLAGING !" :lol:

Sticking with Maiden, I'd argue for Tailgunner off 'No Prayer'...' It's just Sabaton-level awkwardly-shoehorned-in lyrics. Makes no sense if you've ever read a history book, or wached a Sunday-afternoon war film.
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Morn Of Solace
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:40 am 
 

One that springs to mind is Sadist's Season in Silence.

That album is a marvelous and really unique mix of wintry prog rock and technical death/thrash, yet the first proper song Broken and Reborn is the most clunky of them all: it has few good riffs, but it doesn't flow really well and then gets completely obliterated by anything that comes next

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Discordant
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:27 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:03 am 
 

Amon Amarth - With Oden On Our Side
Never liked "Valhall Awaits Me", after opening the previous 2 with mid-tempo tracks I guess they wanted to open with a faster track. Just doesn't really have the "punch". Saw them 2 times on this tour which they opened with this track and was always my least favorite of the setlist. Otherwise probably their best album.
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:33 am 
 

Warlord opens Manowar's best album and it is an OK song really, but a feel-good hard n' heavy song to prologue the Secret of Steel (favorite Manowar song and the epitome of EPIC METAL)? Nope.

If only they had used Defender instead...
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Smalley
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:56 am 
 

They aren't exactly "bad", but none of the first three songs on Nightmares Made Flesh have ever done much for me, and it's not until "Outnumbering The Day" that that record starts to get really good for me.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 6:37 am 
 

Black Sabbath - Mob Rules. Turn Up The Night is possibly the weakest song the Dio line up ever wrote.

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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:15 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Warlord opens Manowar's best album and it is an OK song really, but a feel-good hard n' heavy song to prologue the Secret of Steel (favorite Manowar song and the epitome of EPIC METAL)? Nope.

If only they had used Defender instead...

Speaking of Manowar, I've always thought "Death Tone" from Battle Hymns was straight-up boring trash. "Metal Daze" is how that album should have started as it has a wonderful hook and vocals.
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:05 am 
 

I trusted you, you lllieed - don't give a shit you fucking llieeeeddd

That huh?!? moment opening Katatonia's Viva Emptiness in the form of "Ghost of the Sun" almost turned me off what is a thoroughly engaging record.
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Klschmann
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:33 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:02 am 
 

Speaking again of Manowar, Achilles, Agony and Ecstasy in Eight Parts is a slogging mess of 8-ish minutes of decent Manowar material sandwiched in between about 20 minutes of solos and bloaty garbage that opens probably the last near-great Manowar album in Triumph of Steel.

Unlike Warlord, it actually does fit the vibe of the album but it's way too fucking long. That album starts for me with Metal Warriors 99% of the time.

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megadeth93
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:28 pm 
 

Not sure if it qualifies as an intro or a song but the opening noise on Onslaught's In Search of Sanity.

The only other example I can think of is from punk - the first Transplants album had a mediocre first track.

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Death By Wall of Text
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:18 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:44 pm 
 

Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
I trusted you, you lllieed - don't give a shit you fucking llieeeeddd

That huh?!? moment opening Katatonia's Viva Emptiness in the form of "Ghost of the Sun" almost turned me off what is a thoroughly engaging record.

Come on, that song is just packed with awesome riffs.

Dream Theater - New Millennium (from "Falling into Infinity")

It's honestly a really good (if a bit inconsistent) album, but this track is the worst opener they could have picked. I even grew to like it a bit more over the years, but it's such a weird out-there track that even if it stayed on the album (and it probably needed some work), it should be somewhere in the middle.

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MetalVermont
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:23 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:41 pm 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast (Invaders)

Whilst I don't think this is that bad a song (from reading around I'd say I like it more than most), I think there's a big disparity in quality between it and the rest of the album.


Gangland is that highly esteemed?

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:02 pm 
 

Death By Wall of Text wrote:
Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
I trusted you, you lllieed - don't give a shit you fucking llieeeeddd

That huh?!? moment opening Katatonia's Viva Emptiness in the form of "Ghost of the Sun" almost turned me off what is a thoroughly engaging record.

Come on, that song is just packed with awesome riffs.

Dream Theater - New Millennium (from "Falling into Infinity")

It's honestly a really good (if a bit inconsistent) album, but this track is the worst opener they could have picked. I even grew to like it a bit more over the years, but it's such a weird out-there track that even if it stayed on the album (and it probably needed some work), it should be somewhere in the middle.


It's not an awful song, it's just a bit jarring with the screamo backup vocals in the chorus. I can appreciate the urban setting vibe they were going for and the lyrics sort of give that off but the tone of it all is not one I liked. And the riffs are not special at all.

Agreed about the Dream Theater though. I wish they'd opened with "Just Let Me Breathe". It is just an anthemic banger in the strangest alt-ish sense and lyrically makes all the right references to that time and how they felt about it - or at least how Mike did. Either way it could have been a great way to set off things, a sort of "fuck off" to the label too for trying to control their artistic vision.
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:05 pm 
 

MetalVermont wrote:
lordcatfish wrote:
Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast (Invaders)

Whilst I don't think this is that bad a song (from reading around I'd say I like it more than most), I think there's a big disparity in quality between it and the rest of the album.


Gangland is that highly esteemed?

It's an absolute throwaway track. Poor "Total Eclipse". It's just that the highs of NoTB tend to be high enough to warrant a few breathers.

Side note: Dream Theater did interesting things with it when they covered the full album live.
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:20 pm 
 

Xoth's Invasion of the Tentacube. The first song, Tentacles of Terror, is just too silly. The rest of the album has lyrics that are just as silly but they're anchored in (IMO) much stronger music, that song seems like a parody.

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Sathanas_BM
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:41 pm 
 

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I’ve never been a big fan of “Ghosts Of The Sun” off of Viva Emptiness by Katatonia. I would go as far as to say it’s the weakest track on the album. While I don’t absolutely loathe the song or anything, I just find the one note riff in the verses to be a little uncreative, and the lyrics in the chorus make me cringe a bit. It’s the only track I tend to skip when listening to the album. The rest of the album is killer though, and joins Last Fair Deal and TGCD as being my favorite era of the band.

EDIT: Just saw someone above me expressed the same sentiment, I’m glad to know I’m not alone lol
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:38 pm 
 

I've never liked the title track of Queensryche's The Warning, the introduction is awkward and the pacing feels too stiff for what should be an anthemic opener. There was an alternate track listing that had NM156 as the opener, which works far better in comparison. En Force also would've been one hell of a way to start things off.
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FLIPPITYFLOOP
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:56 pm 
 

lordcatfish wrote:
Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast (Invaders)

Whilst I don't think this is that bad a song (from reading around I'd say I like it more than most), I think there's a big disparity in quality between it and the rest of the album.


Really? How? I keep seeing people slamming Invaders and I honestly just don't get it. Actually one of my favourites from that record. Maybe I'm biased because I grew up with it with my mom being a huge Maiden fan, but NOTB absolutely slaps from beginning to end - not a single dull moment whatsoever.

--

As for my contribution, I found Melechesh's The Epigenesis doesn't REALLY pick up until the second track 'Grand Gathas Of Baal Sin' - but then again I've had a harder time getting into that record in general. Not quite sure what it is as it has a lot of the ingredients that make Melechesh great - maybe not enough fast and savage parts?

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Xytras71
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:57 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 5:38 pm 
 

I'll take "Invaders" and "Gangland" over majorly overhyped "Run to the hills" any day...with its pathetic chorus that almost makes me want to puke.

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Death By Wall of Text
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:18 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 6:11 pm 
 

Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
Death By Wall of Text wrote:
Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
I trusted you, you lllieed - don't give a shit you fucking llieeeeddd

That huh?!? moment opening Katatonia's Viva Emptiness in the form of "Ghost of the Sun" almost turned me off what is a thoroughly engaging record.

Come on, that song is just packed with awesome riffs.

Dream Theater - New Millennium (from "Falling into Infinity")

It's honestly a really good (if a bit inconsistent) album, but this track is the worst opener they could have picked. I even grew to like it a bit more over the years, but it's such a weird out-there track that even if it stayed on the album (and it probably needed some work), it should be somewhere in the middle.


It's not an awful song, it's just a bit jarring with the screamo backup vocals in the chorus. I can appreciate the urban setting vibe they were going for and the lyrics sort of give that off but the tone of it all is not one I liked. And the riffs are not special at all.

Agreed about the Dream Theater though. I wish they'd opened with "Just Let Me Breathe". It is just an anthemic banger in the strangest alt-ish sense and lyrically makes all the right references to that time and how they felt about it - or at least how Mike did. Either way it could have been a great way to set off things, a sort of "fuck off" to the label too for trying to control their artistic vision.

Well, for me it's one of those flagship "simple but effective" tracks, musically and lyrically. The riffs are mostly simple but hit like a truck, same for the lyrics which are just straightforward and pissed off for once. I love also the more melancholic material on that album (especially the overlooked gem that is "A Premonition"), but Ghost of the Sun is one of the tracks that definitely get me moving every single time.

And yep, agreed on "Just Let Me Breathe" being a potentially far better opener (and I think it's the same case of a straightforward pissed off track that simply works :-D ). Or even just "Peruvian Skies". FII has a whole bunch of great songs, but it has easily the weakest start of all DT albums.

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Firmament1
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:09 pm 
 

Obligatory "Not bad, but weak compared to the rest of the album", but Devin Townsend's Terria. The first two tracks made me think that this wasn't gonna be as good as the other Devin Townsend albums I had listened to, but then Earth Day happened, and I realized that my fears were unfounded.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:20 pm 
 

Maiden usually do well with album openers, but Invaders is a little weak indeed.

I can't think of specific tracks now, but albums that have introductions are usually expendable. Stuff like Sodom's intro on their debut, or some of the stuff that Running Wild is needless. Just get to the riffs already.
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Xymosys
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 1:23 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
Maiden usually do well with album openers, but Invaders is a little weak indeed.


Same goes to Wildest Dreams and Tailgunner as well.
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Gemini 7 Rising
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 1:36 am 
 

Xytras71 wrote:
I'll take "Invaders" and "Gangland" over majorly overhyped "Run to the hills" any day...with its pathetic chorus that almost makes me want to puke.


I think I'd have to agree with this. While I really thought 'Run To The Hills' was an amazing song back in the day (my adolescent day) and it's still alright, it gets old fast, though some of that's due to how overplayed & over-hyped it was/is. I think 'Invaders' is probably a stronger song when it comes right down to it. And Gangland's all right too.

But I do think the lyrics for 'Run To The Hills' are hard to beat. They just illustrate everything the song's about so elegantly.
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DungeonShade
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:19 am 
 

It's not terrible but I'll generally skip 'Wreath' off Opeth's 'Deliverance'. Mediocre and quite long.

'Ghost of the Sun' rules! Also 'Criminals' :lol:
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jimbies
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:34 am 
 

For nostalgic purposes:

Mouth for War on Vulgar Display of Power by Pantera. Not that it's particularly a bad song, but I think A New Level is a perfect opener for an album. I loved when they were opening shows with that song.

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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:45 am 
 

Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
I trusted you, you lllieed - don't give a shit you fucking llieeeeddd

That huh?!? moment opening Katatonia's Viva Emptiness in the form of "Ghost of the Sun" almost turned me off what is a thoroughly engaging record.

To be fair, all the lyrics in Viva Emptiness are cringeworthy. It's a good album instrumentally but I'm usually put off by how childish the lyrics are, almost like an angsty teenager wrote them. The Long Cold Distance was an improvement in that regard in my opinion.

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Dandelo
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:28 pm 
 

Discordant wrote:
Amon Amarth - With Oden On Our Side
Never liked "Valhall Awaits Me", after opening the previous 2 with mid-tempo tracks I guess they wanted to open with a faster track. Just doesn't really have the "punch". Saw them 2 times on this tour which they opened with this track and was always my least favorite of the setlist. Otherwise probably their best album.


I really like Deceiver of the Gods, but the first two songs do nothing for me. It's good after that.

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From_Wisdom_To_Mabt
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:20 pm 
 

October Rust. The first song doesn't even work!

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Death By Wall of Text
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:23 pm 
 

DungeonShade wrote:
It's not terrible but I'll generally skip 'Wreath' off Opeth's 'Deliverance'. Mediocre and quite long.

'Ghost of the Sun' rules! Also 'Criminals' :lol:

I think the only issue with "Wreath" is that it's too long, especially the more melodic part repeats for too long. It's a good track, but would be so much better if it was tighter with how brutal a lot of the riffs are. (Opeth in general do excellent with album openers, in my opinion.)

And while I do love "Ghost of the Sun", I do think "Criminals" is a bit unimpressive. It's almost too simple.

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MRmehman
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:52 pm 
 

Xytras71 wrote:
I'll take "Invaders" and "Gangland" over majorly overhyped "Run to the hills" any day...with its pathetic chorus that almost makes me want to puke.

Now that is an unpopular opinion. I think that song's one of 'Maiden's biggest hits for a reason, though I don't hate Invaders or Gangland at all.
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Xytras71
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:46 pm 
 

MRmehman wrote:
Xytras71 wrote:
I'll take "Invaders" and "Gangland" over majorly overhyped "Run to the hills" any day...with its pathetic chorus that almost makes me want to puke.

Now that is an unpopular opinion. I think that song's one of 'Maiden's biggest hits for a reason, though I don't hate Invaders or Gangland at all.


Haha, my toy box is full of unpopular opinions including Maiden...heck, I am one of three people in the world who prefers Self-titled and “Killers” over anything else they’ve released since. And yes, I find “Run to the Hills” the weakest tune on “The Number of The Beast”, which is still ironically my 3d fave album.

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Speed Metal Terror
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:56 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I've never liked the title track of Queensryche's The Warning, the introduction is awkward and the pacing feels too stiff for what should be an anthemic opener. There was an alternate track listing that had NM156 as the opener, which works far better in comparison. En Force also would've been one hell of a way to start things off.


"NM 156" was supposed to open the album, but record company meddling resulted in what they thought would be a hit (the title track) being pushed into the first slot and "NM 156" being randomly slotted into the middle. The title cut was originally supposed to be the penultimate song IIRC.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 10:14 pm 
 

Xytras71 wrote:
MRmehman wrote:
Xytras71 wrote:
I'll take "Invaders" and "Gangland" over majorly overhyped "Run to the hills" any day...with its pathetic chorus that almost makes me want to puke.

Now that is an unpopular opinion. I think that song's one of 'Maiden's biggest hits for a reason, though I don't hate Invaders or Gangland at all.


Haha, my toy box is full of unpopular opinions including Maiden...heck, I am one of three people in the world who prefers Self-titled and “Killers” over anything else they’ve released since. And yes, I find “Run to the Hills” the weakest tune on “The Number of The Beast”, which is still ironically my 3d fave album.


I am the second person in the world that prefers Di'Anno Maiden. I also agree that Run to the Hills is a weaker track, but Number is not my 3rd fave Maiden record. I view it as probably the weakest 80's Maiden record. Hallowed be Thy Name is in my top 3 Maiden tracks though. It is easily the best song on the record, by quite some distance.
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Smalley
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:28 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
I am the second person in the world that prefers Di'Anno Maiden. I also agree that Run to the Hills is a weaker track, but Number is not my 3rd fave Maiden record. I view it as probably the weakest 80's Maiden record. Hallowed be Thy Name is in my top 3 Maiden tracks though. It is easily the best song on the record, by quite some distance.
I'm weird when it comes to early Maiden; I think the self-titled is just decent, but Killers is a big, underrated step forward, and one of Maiden's finest records, while Number is very good, but not quite as good as Killers, with half the songs being great, and the other half being pretty good, but still overrated (like "Run" or the title track). That being said, though, "Invaders" is still an absolute blazer of an opener, and fits right in with "Children Of The Damned", "Gangland", and (especially) "Hallowed" in the better half of that record.
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Benedict
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:41 am 
 

Black 13 on Exodus' Blood in Blood Out. Easily the weakest, least memorable track on the album.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:57 am 
 

Smalley wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
I am the second person in the world that prefers Di'Anno Maiden. I also agree that Run to the Hills is a weaker track, but Number is not my 3rd fave Maiden record. I view it as probably the weakest 80's Maiden record. Hallowed be Thy Name is in my top 3 Maiden tracks though. It is easily the best song on the record, by quite some distance.
I'm weird when it comes to early Maiden; I think the self-titled is just decent, but Killers is a big, underrated step forward, and one of Maiden's finest records, while Number is very good, but not quite as good as Killers, with half the songs being great, and the other half being pretty good, but still overrated (like "Run" or the title track). That being said, though, "Invaders" is still an absolute blazer of an opener, and fits right in with "Children Of The Damned", "Gangland", and (especially) "Hallowed" in the better half of that record.


I have the opposite thought with the early stuff. I think the debut is up there with the greatest records ever, and Killers is a step down. The production on Killers is fantastic though. There's a bootleg LP of the Maiden Japan shows, and that probably more than ever shows how strong that first album is. There's a reason why stuff like Innocent Exile, Drifter and Another Life were quickly dropped from their setlist, while most of the debut record still comes up on a semi regular basis to this very day.
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Xymosys
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Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:19 am
Posts: 661
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 4:12 am 
 

Enter Sandman from infamous Metallica's Black album...It's not that the song is bad though, but I would rather see Of Wolf and Man instead or Sad but True, because of energy of the song(s) itself.
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