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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:41 pm 
 

SD Plissken wrote:
You misconstrued what I stated, and almost immediately.

I never said that the public school was a business, but you were quick to think that was what I meant.

Secondly, not offensive to who?

Thirdly, again, I refer you to my original post that the public and private sectors have their own rules and regulations. So challenge them!

I'll skip the fourth, because it's become ridiculous now.

Fifth, and most importantly, you just proved my point! This principal violated the terms and conditions of her agreement with the school! It is STILL PRIVATE!

Except she didn't violate anything. Even the town mayor is on her side.

You're full of shit, I think you're just trolling at this point.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1618
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:32 am 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
My very religious mother wouldn't let me play Black Sabbath in the house.

Introduce her to a song of theirs called After Forever.
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Liquid_Braino
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:25 am
Posts: 596
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:35 am 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
1985 called....Tipper Gore wants her crusade back.


Let's go back a bit further and bring back the LP bonfires of 'satanic' music. Bands could use the money via expensive vinyl hard copy sales.

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The_Grindcrusher
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:46 pm
Posts: 57
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:00 pm 
 

Considering how mainstream alot of Rock and Metal music is these days, I'd figure people didn't think like this anymore.

Guess I was wrong.
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~Guest 322837
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:20 pm
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:12 pm 
 

there was a fuss of conservative outrage when Lil Nas X released that one video that was too gay and satanic for them.

But I am truly surprised to see anyone going after someone over Iron Maiden merch.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 2342
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:43 pm 
 

wraithlike wrote:
there was a fuss of conservative outrage when Lil Nas X released that one video that was too gay and satanic for them.

Yeah, I still don't think that Lil Nas X "controversy" was warranted. If he wants to twerk for Satan in a music video, he has every right to do so, even if some Televangelists get mad over it.
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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1476
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:32 am 
 

Slater922 wrote:
wraithlike wrote:
there was a fuss of conservative outrage when Lil Nas X released that one video that was too gay and satanic for them.

Yeah, I still don't think that Lil Nas X "controversy" was warranted. If he wants to twerk for Satan in a music video, he has every right to do so, even if some Televangelists get mad over it.


Lil Nas X is a black, gay rapper who uses Satan for shock value. Of course he would cause an aneurysm to regressive boomers, it's like he exists solely to trigger them. He's just missing being trans, if he were, he'd make their heads explode literally.

They'll probably use him for years as an example of "degeneracy" and will blame all their problems on people who listen to his music. But who fucking cares about them and their backwards opinions, right? A lot of them will probably "COVID" themselves to death anyway.

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 997
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:36 pm 
 

SD Plissken wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
Secondly, not offensive to who?

You gotta be kidding me here, what demographic group in this fucking earth could get offended by a pic of a woman wearing an Iron Maiden tee while doing the obvious heavy metal sign of the horns? Okay, the mere existence of a woman showing off her face might be offensive to some cultures, are you seriously going down that route?

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5158
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:59 pm 
 

blackmantram wrote:
SD Plissken wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
Secondly, not offensive to who?

You gotta be kidding me here, what demographic group in this fucking earth could get offended by a pic of a woman wearing an Iron Maiden tee while doing the obvious heavy metal sign of the horns? Okay, the mere existence of a woman showing off her face might be offensive to some cultures, are you seriously going down that route?


He's pulling the cultural relativism card because he can't resist playing devil's advocate to defend dumbshits who are going on a witchhunt because the principal at their kid's school likes Iron Maiden. There is no kind of way to defend their bullshit perspective on this, so he's trying to make us focus on somewhat subjective terms to avoid actually bringing worthwhile points to the table.

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Coastliner
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:49 am
Posts: 667
Location: beyond the blue on some ancient, tattered Fates Warning cover
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:21 am 
 

blackmantram wrote:
SD Plissken wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
Secondly, not offensive to who?

You gotta be kidding me here, what demographic group in this fucking earth could get offended by a pic of a woman wearing an Iron Maiden tee while doing the obvious heavy metal sign of the horns? Okay, the mere existence of a woman showing off her face might be offensive to some cultures, are you seriously going down that route?


Just to get the facts straight:

I've seen the petition (it's already closed after 553 votes). It wasn't about "a pic of a woman wearing an Iron Maiden tee while doing the obvious heavy metal sign of the horns". It was about the number "666" surrounded by the outline of a heart next to a large Eddie puppet. It wasn't about anyone liking the band and saying so in public but about posting said 666 photograph not on her private Instagram page but on an Instagram page connected to her official position as a school principal and about 'impressionable children' (I think that was supposed to mean 'children at an impressionable age') seeing that pic without knowing what it's ultimately about. If anything the "Eddie puppet 666 pic" looked like a Halloween scene, but to anyone (children, parents) not familiar with the fact that that ugly monster puppet was supposed to represent a band's mascot and that the "666" was a reference to a seriously overplayed heavy metal song, it might have looked like someone's taking the idea of Halloween a bit too far ("too far" => depending on and in accordance with an individual's personal standards). (I can't find the pic online anymore, but maybe someone has saved it, or maybe the Way Back Machines of this world will spit it out someday. EDIT: Here it is. Why didn't I find it the first time round? A typo? Not enough coffee...?)

Anyway, you'd expect those 'concerned parents' whose moral metal detector started bleeping furiously above a patch of quicksand next to a penis ring boutique to discuss their concerns with the account holder and ask her to move the pic to her private account ("Quick, Sandy!") instead of starting a petition with the aim of removing the whole person. (But, well, we don't know whether they had already done exactly that behind the scenes.)

I'm just saying – because if people start slinging mud at each other, they should share the same basis for discussion. Otherwise, it's like starting the Third World War to retaliate against Iceland for nuking Hawaii in May 2019.
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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5158
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:48 pm 
 

^ This is still moral panic over something that is a reference not to actual devil worship, but to Iron Maiden. These parents were still, so it seems, pretty quick to grab the torches and pitchforks for something they could have easily googled (Just type in Eddie 666 to see the results) to figure out there was basically nothing to it. If she posted this on an official social media that is related to her job, voluntarily or by mistake, the people who were concerned with this should have asked her to take it down or post it on her personnal social media instead, and problem would have been solved. This picture is extremely harmless regardless. As teenagers, me and my friends watched Hellraiser, played Diablo, and listened to Iron Maiden, and none of us went on to shoot people at school, sacrifice a virgin to Satan or rape nuns.

#GetTheWholeStoryAndStopBeingAMoralCrusader

Edit: I know Coastliner isn't defending the parents who tried to get the principal fired, but I still feel that, even with the whole backstory, this is still a moral panic over something meaningless.

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Coastliner
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:49 am
Posts: 667
Location: beyond the blue on some ancient, tattered Fates Warning cover
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:56 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Edit: I know Coastliner isn't defending the parents who tried to get the principal fired, but I still feel that, even with the whole backstory, this is still a moral panic over something meaningless.


Agreed, and I think they deserve a Haha from an old Megadeth record, but – I don't know, I don't know them – possibly not much more than that. They "seem" (I don't know) to be a bit less reactionary than some people think, and some people on here are fighting about the wrong things (Maiden shirts, hand gestures, women showing their faces in public…).

The problem is: The website loadedradio.com in the first post of this thread describes the case correctly but shows the wrong picture, and the petition is gone by now, so that nobody can read what the point of contention was. Again and from memory: The text of the petition and the complementary explanation – which appeared to have been delivered subsequently – explicitly stated that the petition wasn't about anyone's musical tastes or the 'Eddie 666 pic' itself but only about the placement of that pic between more school-related Instagram posts.

So what happened there? Some scenarios that come to mind are:

- Maybe they had asked the principal to move the pic to a different place first, the principal refused to do that, and the petition was an overreaction out of spite.
- They didn't know what "Eddie" and "666" were supposed to mean and misunderstood the pic for lack of context. Then they realized their mistake and added the explanation to the original text. Then they back-paddled and eventually withdrew the petition.
- They really are concerned about the influences their children are exposed to, and one recent case of cruelty against animals in the local papers* can be enough to provoke an overreaction.
- Etc. Add some of your own possible scenarios.

Stuff like this can easily boil over because many websites picked up on the story. There appears to be a lack of information and communication on everyone's part, and a brick thrown through a window is a brick thrown through a window.




-----------------------------------
* Just one case from where I live: A group of under ten year olds hanging a squirrel. Picture that. In the words of the live version of Marillion's "Fugazi": "This [world] is no place for children…"
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Last edited by Coastliner on Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mirons
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Latvia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:08 am 
 

gzusrocker wrote:
I have a different theory to what this is all about. The students who support the principal are talking about the good things she's done for the school, like making a prayer room for non-Christians, specially muslims.
Maybe these parents are just targeting her diversity agenda and found some more mundane scapegoat(her liking Heavy Metal) to attack.
In any case, seems like a fundamentalist shit going on.


I suppose there might be that angle too.

Quote:
Our school is based on inclusion, and openly displaying Satanic symbols (on a public social media platform) that directly goes against the principles of the vast majority of families who represent the school, is not inclusive. As parents we are demanding her transfer to another school.


It seems the concerned parrents have a skewed view of what inclusiveness is, since the quote above is the opposite of it.

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1476
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:55 am 
 

mirons wrote:
gzusrocker wrote:
I have a different theory to what this is all about. The students who support the principal are talking about the good things she's done for the school, like making a prayer room for non-Christians, specially muslims.
Maybe these parents are just targeting her diversity agenda and found some more mundane scapegoat(her liking Heavy Metal) to attack.
In any case, seems like a fundamentalist shit going on.


I suppose there might be that angle too.

Quote:
Our school is based on inclusion, and openly displaying Satanic symbols (on a public social media platform) that directly goes against the principles of the vast majority of families who represent the school, is not inclusive. As parents we are demanding her transfer to another school.


It seems the concerned parrents have a skewed view of what inclusiveness is, since the quote above is the opposite of it.


Zealots and bigots throwing back the paradox of tolerance at us, maybe? Though I doubt their thinking went that far.

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LunarisIsDead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm
Posts: 199
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:02 am 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
My very religious mother wouldn't let me play Black Sabbath in the house.


The irony of this is hilarious to me.

[quote="gzusrocker]I have a different theory to what this is all about. The students who support the principal are talking about the good things she's done for the school, like making a prayer room for non-Christians, specially muslims.
Maybe these parents are just targeting her diversity agenda and found some more mundane scapegoat(her liking Heavy Metal) to attack.
In any case, seems like a fundamentalist shit going on.[/quote]

I don't think it's a scapegoat necessarily, people are probably legitimately upset about it, despite the absurdity. I do think that might play a part though. If the parents were already unhappy with her, then that could easily feed into this whole metal issue.

I'm glad students are supporting her though. Hopefully she'll get to keep her job.
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humanophage
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:27 pm
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:12 pm 
 

It's not a bad thing. Might bring back a bit of oomph to metal. It is also a nice diversion from the usual moral panic, which nowadays typically happens over someone having right-wing views. Might be a fun tactic to throw up a fuss like it's usually done about someone saying something anti-multiculturalist or "transphobic" online, so that the left recall their former respect for free speech.

original article wrote:
Good thing she didn’t post an undying love for BEHEMOTH or MAYHEM, right? Or DEICIDE for that matter.

Good thing she didn't post an undying love for GRAVELAND or BURZUM, right? Or ABSURD for that matter.

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5158
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:28 pm 
 

humanophage wrote:
Good thing she didn't post an undying love for GRAVELAND or BURZUM, right? Or ABSURD for that matter.


What even is your point...

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humanophage
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:27 pm
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:32 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
humanophage wrote:
Good thing she didn't post an undying love for GRAVELAND or BURZUM, right? Or ABSURD for that matter.


What even is your point...

Folks are getting incredulous at objections to Satanism and citing 'properly Satanic' but still pretty mainstream bands that, they laugh, would shock these normies into oblivion. This is done in a surprised and mocking fashion, as if North America is not in a state of permanent outrage and touchiness about metal bands espousing controversial views. We're at a stage where services life Spotify banned a hefty chunk of black metal and there's a constant panic about right-wing music like this.

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Ball Cupper
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:51 pm
Posts: 235
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:08 am 
 

Disapproving of a head teacher listening to Iron Maiden - bad.
Disapproving of a (hypothetical) head teacher listening to bigoted music - good.
It's quite simple
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Coastliner
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:49 am
Posts: 667
Location: beyond the blue on some ancient, tattered Fates Warning cover
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:42 am 
 

humanophage wrote:
We're at a stage where services life Spotify banned a hefty chunk of black metal and there's a constant panic about right-wing music like this.


It's called householder's rights. You wouldn't let anybody whose nose you don't like cross your doorstep either, would you? Controversial views are only controversial until they're encouraging criminal acts. A website hosting legally disputable content runs the risk of getting into trouble with the law or with the provider, and frisking every single song lyric before it goes online is virtually impossible.
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Ex El Ex El Ex
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 328
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:55 pm 
 

humanophage wrote:
It's not a bad thing. Might bring back a bit of oomph to metal. It is also a nice diversion from the usual moral panic, which nowadays typically happens over someone having right-wing views. Might be a fun tactic to throw up a fuss like it's usually done about someone saying something anti-multiculturalist or "transphobic" online, so that the left recall their former respect for free speech.

original article wrote:
Good thing she didn’t post an undying love for BEHEMOTH or MAYHEM, right? Or DEICIDE for that matter.

Good thing she didn't post an undying love for GRAVELAND or BURZUM, right? Or ABSURD for that matter.

humanophage wrote:
Folks are getting incredulous at objections to Satanism and citing 'properly Satanic' but still pretty mainstream bands that, they laugh, would shock these normies into oblivion. This is done in a surprised and mocking fashion, as if North America is not in a state of permanent outrage and touchiness about metal bands espousing controversial views. We're at a stage where services life Spotify banned a hefty chunk of black metal and there's a constant panic about right-wing music like this.

Let's play Spooooooooooot the Dogwhistleeeeeeeeeeeeee!

*game show music plays*
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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:26 pm 
 

Coastliner wrote:
humanophage wrote:
We're at a stage where services life Spotify banned a hefty chunk of black metal and there's a constant panic about right-wing music like this.


It's called householder's rights. You wouldn't let anybody whose nose you don't like cross your doorstep either, would you? Controversial views are only controversial until they're encouraging criminal acts. A website hosting legally disputable content runs the risk of getting into trouble with the law or with the provider, and frisking every single song lyric before it goes online is virtually impossible.


Ok, but are they just banning black metal bands whose members never did anything bad and just have satanic lyrics (which is probably 95% of black metal bands)?

Cause if so that's stupid.

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Coastliner
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:49 am
Posts: 667
Location: beyond the blue on some ancient, tattered Fates Warning cover
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:11 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Coastliner wrote:
humanophage wrote:
We're at a stage where services life Spotify banned a hefty chunk of black metal and there's a constant panic about right-wing music like this.


It's called householder's rights. You wouldn't let anybody whose nose you don't like cross your doorstep either, would you? Controversial views are only controversial until they're encouraging criminal acts. A website hosting legally disputable content runs the risk of getting into trouble with the law or with the provider, and frisking every single song lyric before it goes online is virtually impossible.


Ok, but are they just banning black metal bands whose members never did anything bad and just have satanic lyrics (which is probably 95% of black metal bands)?

Cause if so that's stupid.


Well, I don't know how streaming services decide what goes where but it's entirely possible that there's some collateral damage because: see above.

If you had a streaming site and – for whatever reason – didn't want the name "Bon Jovi" to be mentioned anywhere, it wouldn't be mentioned anywhere. But would that be a disaster for Bon Jovi? I don't think so because then the fans would buy the CDs instead of getting everything for free. :smiley-with-$$-eyes:
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LycanthropeMoon
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 2296
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:14 pm 
 

humanophage wrote:
It's not a bad thing. Might bring back a bit of oomph to metal. It is also a nice diversion from the usual moral panic, which nowadays typically happens over someone having right-wing views. Might be a fun tactic to throw up a fuss like it's usually done about someone saying something anti-multiculturalist or "transphobic" online, so that the left recall their former respect for free speech.

original article wrote:
Good thing she didn’t post an undying love for BEHEMOTH or MAYHEM, right? Or DEICIDE for that matter.

Good thing she didn't post an undying love for GRAVELAND or BURZUM, right? Or ABSURD for that matter.

lol, the right wing (here in the USA at least) still has plenty of moral panics. There was the previously mentioned Lil Nas X freakout. There's the moral panic over critical race theory being taught in grade school, which it isn't (these people don't even know what it is anyway). There's the moral panic over trans people playing sports and using public restrooms. There's the moral panic that happened over Mr. Potato Head of all things. There was the moral panic over Dr. Seuss being "cancelled", which didn't even happen happen, the Seuss estate chose (on their own without any real pressure) to discontinue 6 whole books that no one really reads anymore anyway - the idiotic posts from Republicans on social media in which they thought they were sticking it to those gosh darn liberals by reading "The Cat in the Hat" were super fucking funny though. Also, they thought Biden wanted to ban beef. There are plenty of real reasons to criticize Biden, but they just pulled that one out of their asses.

Anyway, freaking out about Iron Maiden stuff is dumb, especially in 2021.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 35177
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:16 pm 
 

The U.S. is so awful that a lot of us just tend to automatically think every other place is a paradise of progressivism.
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Required Fields
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 pm
Posts: 1248
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:57 am 
 

https://notllocal.com/2021/10/13/more-t ... principal/
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
Posts: 5861
Location: 717
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:11 pm 
 

Ex El Ex El Ex wrote:
humanophage wrote:
(some basement dwelling black metal larper bullshit)

Let's play Spooooooooooot the Dogwhistleeeeeeeeeeeeee!

*game show music plays*


I was pondering why anyone would have this sort of mentality anymore, but then I noticed he's Russian and that tells me all I need to know about him.

Obviously, not all Russians who listen to black metal act like this, but enough do for them to build their own stereotype.
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