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DecemberSoul
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:17 pm 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:
If we're talking about bad death metal vocals, Dethklok is mildly irritating and underwhelming at worst.

I've heard far worse... *Cough* *cough* *Six Feet Under*


*triple cough* *that Toxodeth album*
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Ace_Rimmer
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:42 pm 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:
If we're talking about bad death metal vocals, Dethklok is mildly irritating and underwhelming at worst.

I've heard far worse... *Cough* *cough* *Six Feet Under*

I can tolerate it lol


Its more underwhelming. They do a low gruff whisper and pump up the volume instead of a raging growl.

Some pig squeals could have saved it.

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lennonlikesmetal
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:55 pm 
 

DecemberSoul wrote:
MalignantTyrant wrote:
If we're talking about bad death metal vocals, Dethklok is mildly irritating and underwhelming at worst.

I've heard far worse... *Cough* *cough* *Six Feet Under*


*triple cough* *that Toxodeth album*


Which Toxodeth album?

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pressingtoplead13
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:59 pm 
 

Steven Tucker is better than David Vincent. Formulas is best album followed by Covenant.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:20 pm 
 

I like Gateways a lot but I could never get into Formulas all that much. As I've gone on I think I only really need A B and G. I think at times Pete's fills get overwhelming and distract on C. F is too chaotic maybe? Not sure but the songwriting doesn't grab me. H I have little experience with beyond the song they made the video out of and the drum check track. It sounds weak though production wise. I actually has a few tracks I think are interesting if for different reasons. And K is just serviceable but not very exciting.

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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:29 am 
 

Switch B with C and I'm with you. I like Morbid Angel plenty of course but I always thought B was too slow and droning for its own good and the atmosphere that supposedly carries it just never worked for me. F is fine (and was actually my first album of theirs) but always felt kinda disorganized and never really came together for me, which is similar to how I feel about H. A is an obvious classic, C's absurd pace and overwhelming atmosphere work really well together, and G just feels like a planet telling you how much it hates you, and even if I like less of their stuff than most fans, those three will always cement them as all time greats for me.
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DecemberSoul
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:11 am 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
DecemberSoul wrote:
MalignantTyrant wrote:
If we're talking about bad death metal vocals, Dethklok is mildly irritating and underwhelming at worst.

I've heard far worse... *Cough* *cough* *Six Feet Under*


*triple cough* *that Toxodeth album*


Which Toxodeth album?


HOLY CRAP they made another one??? In-cre-di-ble.
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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:05 am 
 

Life_Sucks wrote:
Incantation and that style of death metal is boring.
War metal is boring.

Pratically it’s boring 3/4 of last twenty years death metal…

Since pratically everyone copies Incantation/Immolation blend with Finnish scene of first nineties.

You don’t like death metal.

Ps Altars is inarrivable followed by Blessed,G F and H are good/great albums,C is overrated and D is new metal
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:56 am 
 

Lee Harrison wrote:
Life_Sucks wrote:
Incantation and that style of death metal is boring.
War metal is boring.

Pratically it’s boring 3/4 of last twenty years death metal…

Since pratically everyone copies Incantation/Immolation blend with Finnish scene of first nineties.

You don’t like death metal.

Ps Altars is inarrivable followed by Blessed,G F and H are good/great albums,C is overrated and D is new metal


I like plenty of death metal that doesn't sound like Immolation.

Since I've stated that CTAWB is not very good to my ears what other Immolation album should I check out that may change my opinion on the band? I've seen them live so I've heard other stuff but couldn't tell you what albums they were off of.

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joppek
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:00 am 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Since I've stated that CTAWB is not very good to my ears what other Immolation album should I check out that may change my opinion on the band? I've seen them live so I've heard other stuff but couldn't tell you what albums they were off of.


for variety's sake, try the debut and the providence ep
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:11 am 
 

Honestly Immolation is kinda one of those bands like Motorhead or Cannibal Corpse where they have more variation within and across albums than they're usually given credit for, but they're lauded for their consistency for a reason. Fans tend to like their albums for the same reasons, and there are differences between them all but if it's just the general vibe that isn't gelling with you, then other albums aren't likely to change your mind.

However CTAWB is probably their most chaotic and overwhelming album so I'll second the rec for the debut. It's much more "normal" death metal but still has a lot of their specific qualities that they keep throughout their career. It was the first one I heard and the reason I became a fan, and I swear like 30% of all battle vests use that album cover for the main backpatch so it's definitely latched on hard for tons of people.
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:26 am 
 

pressingtoplead13 wrote:
Steven Tucker is better than David Vincent. Formulas is best album followed by Covenant.


Every single time I see someone commenting that Tucker is better than Vincent, I go and listen to some of the Tucker albums and try to give them a fair chance, then I come back to Altars, and I seriously can't understand why anyone would think Altars is not the best by a solid margin. I'm sorry, I really tried, but none Morbid Angel album, regardless if they are Tucker era or Vincent era, holds a candle to Altars. It's just that good.

The closest they ever came to such quality was with Blessed and Covenant, so yeah, I have to strongly disagree with you. Vincent has the top three Morbid Angel albums to his name.

I'm not saying that Tucker era is bad, mind you.

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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:20 am 
 

Tucker vs. Vincent is a lot like Corpsegrinder vs. Barnes:
The albums with [Vincent/Barnes] may be the best the band ever did, but [Tucker/Corpsegrinder] is just better overall as a member.
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lennonlikesmetal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:48 am 
 

DecemberSoul wrote:
HOLY CRAP they made another one??? In-cre-di-ble.


I think i only have the Phantasms demo.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:50 am 
 

Playing the last Immolation album now, which I remember hearing some middling things about. This sounds about as good as they ever did to me honestly. I can see the talent there but the sound overall is slightly too airless and clustered together for me. I like more of a melodic, rock feel to things or something even more crazy and out there. This is just a bit too in the middle for my tastes. Not bad though.
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kovner1972
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:04 pm 
 

My unpopular one and a half cents.

Altar of Madness has NEVER impressed my what so ever and to this day I still wonder what's so great/unique about that album.
The one album by Morbid Angel I most enjoy is of course Domination.
I think the I album is a fun one to listen to.
David Vincent is far superior vocals/charisma wise to the very boring, color-less, charisma-devoid Steve Tucker who sounds like a generic death metal vocalist, if there's ever been one.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:08 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Tucker vs. Vincent is a lot like Corpsegrinder vs. Barnes:
The albums with [Vincent/Barnes] may be the best the band ever did, but [Tucker/Corpsegrinder] is just better overall as a member.


Mmm, I'm not really familiar with the guys in Morbid Angel as people and I've never seen the band live, so I can only talk from a musical standpoint. And to me, there is just no contest: Vincent era Morbid Angel (Altars of Madness, most of all) is just way better then Tucker era MA.

I think I understand the comparison you're making though, however, I think Cannibal Corpse kept releasing absolutely phenomenal death metal with Corpsegrinder, although it was never as genre defining as the Barnes material. Morbid Angel passed their prime are just one of the many death metal bands. They are good, but nothing really stands out much.

Empyreal wrote:
Playing the last Immolation album now, which I remember hearing some middling things about. This sounds about as good as they ever did to me honestly. I can see the talent there but the sound overall is slightly too airless and clustered together for me. I like more of a melodic, rock feel to things or something even more crazy and out there. This is just a bit too in the middle for my tastes. Not bad though.


My issue with people saying that Immolation sounds "too normal" is that they basically invented "normal". They are one the most influential (even copied) old-school death metal bands out there, so if anything, they only sound normal, ordinary or "middle" as you said it, because they set the standard for the genre.

However, I can totally understand why someone stumbling on them in 2023 would not find them overly captivating, intriguing, or find them to be all that different from anything else, which is understandable, and of course their 2022 album is nothing very new and distinctively unique in the death metal landscape of today. It's good stuff though.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:12 pm 
 

I mean I've heard them before. I'm not trying to shit on em or say they sound "normal" in a bad way. The sound just doesn't really get me going much. It's OK but not something I really reach for much. I like faster stuff or something wild like Gorguts - Obscura or some shit like that. Just preferences.

My Morbid Angel take is actually probably "basic"... they never topped A-C for me. The F and G albums are cool but I just find the songs on the first three much more exciting overall. Domination was always really dull to me. Dumbed down too much of the sound.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:21 pm 
 

I will check out Immolation's debut.

And Vincent towers over Tucker, who is a generic death metal guy to me. To me MA is defined by A and B, which one is my favorite depends on the day of the week. C is good but a significant drop for me, and I actually like D more. Of the Tucker era as I said the only one that gets any time is G which is a monolithic slab of heaviness. I won't say any MA sucks or is a bad listen, even I, but only A&B are really vital to me.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:30 pm 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
My unpopular one and a half cents.

Altar of Madness has NEVER impressed my what so ever and to this day I still wonder what's so great/unique about that album.


I'm not well-versed in the more technical aspects of music, and I can't really go too deep into the musical theory behind it, but here's how I can explain why it's so good, at least for me, by retracing my history with it.

Altars of Madness is the first Morbid Angel album I heard in full, which is a nice starting point, as it was also their first record. I remember enjoying it thoroughly, but I didn't think of it as somekind of truly amazing death metal album until I actually got to dig into bands who were influenced by it a lot, namely Blood Incantation. It's by listening to some of the more ecclectic, less straight-forward and complex (without being prog or tech death) death metal that I actually got a good appreciation of just how forward thinking and avant-garde Altars was at the time of release. You probably heard praises for Sandoval a million times, but let's make this the 1 000 001 time, as the drumming is truly amazing and intricate, while still having a lot of blast beats and aggression to them. I always thought of Death and Atheist as the first to truly experiment with less aggressive and in your face drumming in 91, but Altars has far more intricate drumming then I first perceived.

There is always something about just unorthodox the riffing is on Altars. If you compare it to other death and death thrash of 1989, like Bolt Thrower on Realm of Chaos, Pestilence on Consuming Impulse or Sepltura on Beneath the Remains, there is a quality to it, a complexity and even something almost prog in essence. If you take the opening riff of Immortal Rites as an example, there is just something about how it goes back and forth, in a wave-like motion. The song then breaks into a faster-paced, more aggresive riff, with a couple of breaks, making it more syncopated and complex then a lot of death metal at the time.

The production, the overall sound of the album, how everything ties in together just works wonders in my opinion.

The positively wonky and complex elements don't take anything away from the agression on Altars of Madness, which is one of it's great strenghts, in my opinion. It's nothing too flashy, nothing too complex, but there are still flares of eccentricity, technical and almost prog sections in the drumming and guitars, that just fit right in with the rest. The more eccentric and out-there elements of the music really fits right in with the whole aura and aesthetics of the album, making it feel like it's part of an actual occult ritual of sorts.

There really is nothing like Altars of Madness out there, still to this day, in my opinion. There are hints of it on later Morbid Angel records, but never at the same level. And usually if I want to hear anything somewhat similar to Morbid Angel, I gravitate to Blood Incantation, but even then, BI has lenghty passages that are far less aggressive, and they focus much more on building these vast, almost atmospheric and spacey passages, which is great, but that sets them apart fomr Morbid Angel significantly.

So yeah, that's my two cents.

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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:32 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I mean I've heard them before. I'm not trying to shit on em or say they sound "normal" in a bad way. The sound just doesn't really get me going much. It's OK but not something I really reach for much. I like faster stuff or something wild like Gorguts - Obscura or some shit like that. Just preferences.

My Morbid Angel take is actually probably "basic"... they never topped A-C for me. The F and G albums are cool but I just find the songs on the first three much more exciting overall. Domination was always really dull to me. Dumbed down too much of the sound.


Yeah, I'm sorry if my post seemed to suggest that you were taking an unfair jab at Immolation. That was not my intention, but I could have phrased my post better. I'm actually kind of like you there. I enjoy Immolation but they do tend to feel too "normal" for my taste. Which is funny, because they were extremely innovative at the time. But I can't really force myself to like their music more. I did enjoy Acts of God though.

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In_Zane
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:43 pm 
 

I prefer Deathcore over Death Metal (I dont hate death metal, though).
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HeavenDuff
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:22 pm 
 

In_Zane wrote:
I prefer Deathcore over Death Metal (I dont hate death metal, though).


:oh shit:

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dike
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:00 pm 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
My unpopular one and a half cents.

Altar of Madness has NEVER impressed my what so ever and to this day I still wonder what's so great/unique about that album.
The one album by Morbid Angel I most enjoy is of course Domination.
I think the I album is a fun one to listen to.
David Vincent is far superior vocals/charisma wise to the very boring, color-less, charisma-devoid Steve Tucker who sounds like a generic death metal vocalist, if there's ever been one.


I also think Vincent is way better in that he has personality in his voice. Tucker isn't bad but he is more of a run of the mill type death metal vocalist. And while I'm not as hard on Altars as you are I also never quite got the hype. For my taste it's to much thrash influence on that one for my liking. It's good but I never return to it. Otherwise I really like albums B to H (yes, all the way to H). Perhaps that's my unpopular metal opinion - Heretic is really, really good (except the weird experimental tracks at the end).

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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:57 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Playing the last Immolation album now, which I remember hearing some middling things about. This sounds about as good as they ever did to me honestly. I can see the talent there but the sound overall is slightly too airless and clustered together for me. I like more of a melodic, rock feel to things or something even more crazy and out there. This is just a bit too in the middle for my tastes. Not bad though.

Try Harnessing ruin

It’s one of Immo more underrated album,I think that you can appreciate because more melodic.
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Aldrahn333
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:43 pm 
 

You (guys) are tripping

C and G are the best of MA and both Vincent and Tucker are absolutely perfect in both albums

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In_Zane
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:13 am 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
In_Zane wrote:
I prefer Deathcore over Death Metal (I dont hate death metal, though).


:oh shit:

I will admit though that I love bands like Entombed (Swedish Buzz saw Death Metal) over Deathcore, however.

But overall - It's Deathcore over most death metal. :D
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MalignantTyrant
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:12 am 
 

by deathcore do you mean...something like Whitechapel's older albums, or something like Emmure or Acacia Strain? Because they do not sound anything alike despite being the same genre
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In_Zane
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:32 am 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:
by deathcore do you mean...something like Whitechapel's older albums, or something like Emmure or Acacia Strain? Because they do not sound anything alike despite being the same genre

Similar to Whitechapels ''This is Exile'', Carnifex (Like ''Hell Chose Me'') etc.

Never liked Emmure or Acacia Strain.
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morbert
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:12 am 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
My unpopular one and a half cents. Altar of Madness has NEVER impressed my what so ever and to this day I still wonder what's so great/unique about that album.


It's the only Morbid Angel album I really love.
I do like the 2 after it as well but only 'like' them, as in 80-85 point albums. But Altars.... Altars is pure magic!
The songs, the sound and especially the vocals. It's the only album on which I really like his voice.
He had a cold recording it, if I remember correctly.
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Lee Harrison
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:54 am 
 

Altars is pure magic

Immortal rites,Maze of Torment my ears never had heard such brutality blend with supreme technique,perfec album.

And that cover.
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CannibalCorpse
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:42 am 
 

I don't like Morbid Angel.

I tried, but it's not what I seek in DM, apparently. I do have a gut feeling of why Altars could be attractive to many with its chaos and "evil" but it bores me quickly. Their simplified stuff from later albums doesn't grab me like dumb but fun mid-era Deicide does, for example.
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MalignantTyrant
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:18 am 
 

CannibalCorpse wrote:
Their simplified stuff from later albums doesn't grab me like dumb but fun mid-era Deicide does, for example.


Wait so you think Serpents of the Light and Once Upon the Cross are better than the Tucker-era MA albums?

Oh, man...

Um...can we start grabbing the pitchforks now?
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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:25 am 
 

Not really sure you can call Once Upon The Cross mid era Deicide but I'd take that album over the entire Tucker era for sure. Great album.
I'll start running now.

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:17 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
Not really sure you can call Once Upon The Cross mid era Deicide but I'd take that album over the entire Tucker era for sure. Great album.
I'll start running now.


That's also the best Deicide album, IMO. But they've always been a C-level band that, somehow, has earned the praise (more often than not) of upper tier DM bands.

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kovner1972
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:21 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
Not really sure you can call Once Upon The Cross mid era Deicide but I'd take that album over the entire Tucker era for sure. Great album.
I'll start running now.


That's also the best Deicide album, IMO. But they've always been a C-level band that, somehow, has earned the praise (more often than not) of upper tier DM bands.


Oh man, I'll take Deicide's self titled debut (or even their recording as Amon) every fucking day over Morbid Angel's Altars of Madness.

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CannibalCorpse
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:24 pm 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:

Wait so you think Serpents of the Light and Once Upon the Cross are better than the Tucker-era MA albums?

Oh, man...

Um...can we start grabbing the pitchforks now?


"Serpents..." mostly, yes. Maybe not objectively better, but a lot more fun to listen to.

Get the forks now ;-)
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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:08 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
Not really sure you can call Once Upon The Cross mid era Deicide but I'd take that album over the entire Tucker era for sure. Great album.
I'll start running now.


That's also the best Deicide album, IMO. But they've always been a C-level band that, somehow, has earned the praise (more often than not) of upper tier DM bands.

No way. Deicide's debut is God-level (or should that be Satan-level?) and it fully deserves it's praise. Legion comes a close 2nd, followed by Once Upon The Cross for me, after that whatever.

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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:25 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
Not really sure you can call Once Upon The Cross mid era Deicide but I'd take that album over the entire Tucker era for sure. Great album.
I'll start running now.


That's also the best Deicide album, IMO. But they've always been a C-level band that, somehow, has earned the praise (more often than not) of upper tier DM bands.

No way. Deicide's debut is God-level (or should that be Satan-level?) and it fully deserves it's praise. Legion comes a close 2nd, followed by Once Upon The Cross for me, after that whatever.


I'm with you dude.

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Benedict Donald
Veteran

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 3066
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:23 pm 
 

I know I'm in the minority with this Deicide opinion, but there it is.

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