Ratt and Kiss belongs in the archives. Based off of their early records Kiss and Ratt are both very much metal. The Ratt EP is as metal as anything out at that time.
Kiss, leather/chains, makeup, spitting fire, flash pots out the asshole and heavy music (for 1974). Sounds like a metal band to me.

For the record, I am a fan of both bands. Probably more than the average user here.

*for those that caught this before I could edit this, I am listening to the first Rush album. I change my opinion on my original statement regarding Rush.

Agreed 100%.

Creatures of the Night is a Saxon record with Paul and Gene singing.

Yes. It's always been perplexing that Dokken is here and they aren't.

I like Quest for fire and for me To Tame a Land is the best epic of Iron…

Nargaroth Era of Threnody is a masterpiece

Along the same lines, I was wondering the other day, "Is Tesla (late '80s-early '90s band) on the archives?" They aren't, and that 2nd (?) album, 'The Great Radio Controversy' definitely leaned towards bluesy hard rock, but the 1st one (w/ 'Modern Day Cowboy') was fairly metal from what I remember (metal-light, maybe, but at least as heavy as RATT, etc.).

And 'Mechanical Resonance' was a great record for it's time, imo.

I agree with that, and I'll raise you: 'Cryptic writings' is better than 'Youthanasia'.

I always loved 'To Tame a Land', I think it's great (and so is 'Sun and Steel'), but to me, 'Quest for Fire' is the weak link.

'Where Eagles Dare' isn't among their strongest either, but it is a great opener because the album only gets stronger from there. It's also a great lead into 'Revelations', one of the greatest Maiden songs of all time.

No disagreement from me. "Youthanasia" is shockingly dull and insipid. Low on energy and weak in songwriting.

I think cryptic writings is better than youthanasia and even countdown as well tho it's got nothing on the first four but I think toute le monde and family tree are some of their better songs and I think Dave Mustaine is more skilled as a songwriter than Metallica are quite frankly he just writes more interesting shit imo

Though I could really care less about most anything after that I've never listened to risk but I'd honestly rather check that out than anything past which I also haven't heard God damn I've never heard anything after cryptic writings I should probably check it out at some point

Even though they weren't, I believe Tesla unfortunately got lumped in with all of the "hair" metal bands. A I said they aren't, but at first glance, a lot of people consider them hair metal. I'm not a fan of Tesla at all, but Modern Day Cowboy
is a shredding song. The guitar playing in that song is extremely complex and very challenging to play. From what I have heard they sound metal to me.

I could be misremembering, but I swear Ratt was on the archives at one point. I'll agree with that part of your opinion, the KISS one not so much.

Keep it that way.

HAHAHA!!
Terrible record.

Well now I gotta listen to spite you lol

But yeah I haven't heard much good things but a terrible deviation seems more interesting than the classic epic "we're back making thrash again" record to me

This is an amazing coincidence. My late father too loved Saxon after I lent him their Greatest Hits on cassette. He liked Iron Maiden, but couldn't get into Priest. Thrash Metal was a bridge too far for him - and so I'm sure Death Metal would have been ... two bridges too far.

I'd say you should give Risk a chance. Keep an open mind, it's not heavy metal but it is pretty darn good. I love the Time songs for example. Those are some of the best stuff Mustaine has written.

While we’re on Megadeth- I absolutely love The System Has Failed- top five album for me.

Daudi Baldrs is a much better album than Hlidskjalf. There, I said it.

No it isn't, but the last two songs on it are seriously good. My first Burzum album.

Hlidskjalf its totally pointless to me, It's weird to think that it's the same guy behind a piece like Tomhet.

Hot take: both those albums are awful.

More like the only reasonable one, even if i kinda like Moti Ragnarokum despite the equipment limitations.

it seems accurate that jail does weird things to musicians... look at the bald headed Dissection reunion

While we're on the subject of Tesla.... Agreed they unfairly (but understandably, considering Love Song and it's video) got lumped in with hair metal when they weren't.... but here'e MY hot take.... unlike virtually every 80s metal/metal adjacent band in the entirety of the decade, come the 90s, they got even MORE metal.... IMO their two 90s albums, Psychotic Supper and Bust a Nut, could definitely pass for metal, but not so much their two 80s albums.

Ok after typing all that I realized Skid Row was another 80s metal/metal adjacent band that got more metal in the 90s.

How is that a hot take? People have been dumping on the prison albums since they came out.

Burzum is one hundred times better than Mayhem.

Yes!

Top Megadeth album for me, and they are my favourite band. It also has a lot of nostalgia connected with a trip I made with friends the year after it's release.

Riff salad songwriting makes sense when you're aiming for structures with linear progression but is pretty much pointless if the individual segments aren't ear catching or sound interchangeable.

I'm low key convinced that a large number of bands these days are legitimately scared of writing catchy songs. Like, not that they can't (Though I'm sure plenty of them can't) but rather that there's some attitude against having chant-friendly riffs or singalong choruses so they go out of their way to not include them.

Going along with that, a lot of musicians have excessively defeatist attitudes about their own art. If you don't think you're making good art or that nobody else is making good art these days, you probably shouldn't be making it.

"Cheesy" is one of the dumbest insults to use for a piece of music, especially in metal. In the post-Hard Times world of music discourse, literally everything is cheesy. It's just a matter of which kinds of cheese you prefer.

It might be a reflection of my circles rather than the community at large, but this focus on the ironic/memey side of music consumption is exhausting

Most people who think metal needs to be more innovative wouldn't recognize it if said innovation was happening right in front of them.

Metal's understanding of what means to be "rebellious" is shortsighted and childish. Debating the merits in the "shock value" of Satanic or Nazi theming is meaningless when there are marginalized people in the genre that still get shit on for just trying to exist.

Metal's stilted social attitudes play a bigger role in its perceived irrelevance as a genre than any sort of musical stagnancy ever could.

Generalizing all stoner doom as "Sabbath worship" reflects a shallow understanding of both Sabbath and stoner doom. When did Sabbath ever coast on a single riff for minutes on end, lapse into unstructured noodling, or completely give into despair? Inversely, how many stoner doom bands really keep the swing of classic Sabbath or have any singers trying to channel Ozzy's charisma beyond merely imitating his sneer? Bands like Cathedral and Iron Man are examples of bands that actually did carry on the Sabbath spirit, but it's more realistic to say that most stoner doom is closer to Sleep worship or Electric Wizard worship. Just because something is slow and downtuned doesn't instantly make it sound like Sabbath.

Hellenic black metal is the most enjoyable variant and works as the most effective gateway into the genre.

Black-thrash is the hardest subgenres to screw up but also one of the hardest to actually make stand out.

Most hardcore-derived metal genres leave me cold, including sludge.

The older I get, the more I'm convinced that I'm just a pop fan in other genres' clothing.

Most people don't actually like their favorite bands, they like the *idea* of their favorite bands.

Did this turn into Strange Metal Opinions?
I'm pretty sure I actually like Morgana Lefay.

I'll see the irony and memeification of other kinds of music and it just exhausts me. I'm glad to avoid that from metal. Can't stand it. Just appreciate stuff for what it is.

I still think Kyuss's Welcome to Sky Valley might be the best recitation of old Sabbath I ever heard. Cathedral definitely has the spirit too.

And yeah - good strong pop songwriting is sort of the base skeleton of a whole shitload of music of various genres. Important stuff.

It’s more in reference to the kind of people who will insist that something like Slayer is the greatest band ever even though they had a decade of greatness and three of mediocrity. Do they really love Slayer or do they love the feeling that they got from listening to Seasons in the Abyss when they were fourteen?

I'm not sure how many other multiple-decades long running bands had more than a decades worth of greatness.

Yup; I mean, even a band with a perfect discography like Death was putting out records for "just" eleven years, and that's it.

Yeah. I see it leveled quite often from black metal fans at power metal. To me the try-hard seriousness of many BM bands makes it way cheesier than bands who are clearly just trying to have fun. Doesn't mean I don't like some of both, but seeing the charge leveled is hilariously ironic.

Yet another metal guy who doesn't like hardcore-adjacent genres. Yeah..... SUPER unpopular opinion there bud haha.


Seriously this thread lost the plot over 10 pages ago.

This is a good point, but after checking the release dates of albums by some of my top bands, I'd extend it to 15 years.
But you're right, it must be impossible to maintain a level of untouched greatness indefinitely without going off on weird tangents. Someone mentioned Death, Chuck was already experimenting with Control Denied and who knows where he would have ended up if he had continued?
Plus, Slayer did continue putting on killer shows even if their discography wasn't up to par, and the same could be said for Maiden, Metallica... And I suppose it's possible to just love a band for the way they made you feel when you first heard them at 14.

Nostalgia has always been a huge part of metal. Just look at Metallica, their career has been way worse than Slayer's.

A decade is enough to be not the greatest band ever but to deserve respect foreve(Slayer only influenced thrash,death and black forever)

Wigrid is ten times better than Burzum

Immolation don’t have a single bad album same Enslaved ,Obscura idem,Nile too have strong album after strong album,Angantyr same,Horna,Necrophobic,Incantation have too a great discography,Unleashed after two mediocre albums didint have wrong an album and I forgot many bands…

Tesla deserve much respect I agree…

I think Immolation, Moonsorrow, Death, Insomnium, Gorguts have flawless discographies.

Speaking of really consistent bands: I've revisited the Immortal discography and i really didn't expect them to be so much consistently good, i had a lot of fun with each album!

...And here comes the unpopular opinion: All Shall Fall is a really great album and one of the very best of their discography: Abbath's riffing is way more creative than he's given credit for and the fact that they can both make a fun Bathory-like thrasher like Hordes to War, a melodic charger like the title track and a brooding epic like Unearthly Kingdom on the same album shows their versatility and songwriting skills.
Damned in Black too is often maligned, but i really liked it: Against the Tide (In the Arctic World) in particular is one of my favorite songs by them.

The least fun ones were probably the first, the latest and Blizzard Beasts (even if the strong songs there are really strong) and the best kept secret is the amazing I album Between Two Worlds, Ice Dale is one of the best lead guitar players you don't know!