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Forever Underground
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:35 am
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Location: Galiza
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:48 pm 
 

I've always been a big fan of the early Vital Remains phase, and for years I was ignoring the Glen Benton phase, however recently I've listened to the albums "Dechristianize" "Icons of Evil" and I found them to be pretty good but that made me go back to their previous releases and the truth is that i consider the albums "Let Us Pray" "Dawn of the Apocalypse" and of course my favourite "Forever Underground" masterpieces of the genre, and that without counting the demo "Excruciating Pain" which also seems to me one of the best death metal exercises I've ever heard.

Taking all this into account, in my opinion this is the best death metal band from the USA that I have ever listened to, with a more than solid discography. And what do you think? What do you think about the different eras of VR? Does anyone know why they have been inactive for almost 15 years? I read you
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Xytras71
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:57 am
Posts: 488
Location: Toronto, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:29 pm 
 

Even though I wouldn't go as far as to say that VR are the best DM band coming of USA, they're certainly fairly enjoyable to my ears with "Into Cold Darkness" as my fave album. But I've always had an issue with "Dechristianize" and "Icons of Evil". While musically still good, it's Benton's barking that really gets on my nerves. I prefer his vox on Deicide much better.

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orphy
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:24 pm
Posts: 414
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:16 pm 
 

I only really knew the Benton era stuff for a long time, so I was totally blown away when I heard "Let Us Pray." It sounds evil kind of feels like it has a lot in common with some early Peaceville death metal bands (especially production wise). The song writing gets pretty lengthy but it's solid all the way through.
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Judas Maiden
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:56 pm
Posts: 861
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:30 pm 
 

My problem with Benton era Vital Remains is that the songs are way too long. They seem over extended with parts repeated over and over again that makes listening to the songs tiresome.

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Frank Booth
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:03 pm 
 

They started off as a pretty cool and interesting band, then they gradually turned more and more into eight-minute blastfests with MAYBE four minutes worth of ideas stretched out way too far. The Benton era was where it reached its worst point, but the Thorn era and realistically even the tail end of the Joe Lewis era were heading into that territory as well.

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matras
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 1222
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:07 pm 
 

My biggest gripe with them is that they insist on playing every song twice before ending it.

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Gemini 7 Rising
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Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:56 pm 
 

Xytras71 wrote:
Even though I wouldn't go as far as to say that VR are the best DM band coming of USA, they're certainly fairly enjoyable to my ears with "Into Cold Darkness" as my fave album.


I personally never even listened to the Glen Benton albums, but yeah, those first 3 are killer and love 'Into Cold Darkness'
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:55 pm 
 

Dechristianize is literally their only album I've found worth listening to, but I've gotta give respect to the only death metal band out of Providence that's ever been known outside of it.
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77hjrttfred
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:15 pm
Posts: 411
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:08 pm 
 

Judas Maiden wrote:
My problem with Benton era Vital Remains is that the songs are way too long. They seem over extended with parts repeated over and over again that makes listening to the songs tiresome.


Exactly. I know I have one of the Benton era albums, but I haven't listened to it for quite a while. I remember lots of long passages of blasting that get a bit repetitive after a while. If they had shortened the songs, the music would have been much more memorable.

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aaronmb666
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:37 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:07 am 
 

Forever Underground wrote:
I've always been a big fan of the early Vital Remains phase, and for years I was ignoring the Glen Benton phase, however recently I've listened to the albums "Dechristianize" "Icons of Evil" and I found them to be pretty good but that made me go back to their previous releases and the truth is that i consider the albums "Let Us Pray" "Dawn of the Apocalypse" and of course my favourite "Forever Underground" masterpieces of the genre, and that without counting the demo "Excruciating Pain" which also seems to me one of the best death metal exercises I've ever heard.

Taking all this into account, in my opinion this is the best death metal band from the USA that I have ever listened to, with a more than solid discography. And what do you think? What do you think about the different eras of VR? Does anyone know why they have been inactive for almost 15 years? I read you


They were touring for years, but Tony had a big surgery a couple years ago. They kept saying they were going to record a new album years ago, but Im guessing thats why they havent.
My personal favorite era is the Benton era. I was watching When London Burns, where Dave Suzuki and Jack Owen replaced the Hoffmans, and they crushed it, particularly Dave.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:18 am 
 

Tony was saying that shit for years, well before he got a brain tumor. Multiple people have written new material and Dean wrote over a whole album's worth of shit that Tony refused to record - it wasn't going to happen then and it's definitely never going to happen now.

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collingwood77
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 334
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:50 am 
 

aaronmb666 wrote:
Forever Underground wrote:
I've always been a big fan of the early Vital Remains phase, and for years I was ignoring the Glen Benton phase, however recently I've listened to the albums "Dechristianize" "Icons of Evil" and I found them to be pretty good but that made me go back to their previous releases and the truth is that i consider the albums "Let Us Pray" "Dawn of the Apocalypse" and of course my favourite "Forever Underground" masterpieces of the genre, and that without counting the demo "Excruciating Pain" which also seems to me one of the best death metal exercises I've ever heard.

Taking all this into account, in my opinion this is the best death metal band from the USA that I have ever listened to, with a more than solid discography. And what do you think? What do you think about the different eras of VR? Does anyone know why they have been inactive for almost 15 years? I read you


They were touring for years, but Tony had a big surgery a couple years ago. They kept saying they were going to record a new album years ago, but Im guessing thats why they havent.
My personal favorite era is the Benton era. I was watching When London Burns, where Dave Suzuki and Jack Owen replaced the Hoffmans, and they crushed it, particularly Dave.


I think you are getting a bit confused or I'm just reading you wrongly. The Hoffman brothers were in Deicide, not VR (i.e. the guitarist Hoffmans not the drummer Hoffmans). Suzuki never played for Deicide to my knowledge, and Jack Owen never played in VR. You should check out VR's Forever Underground album at the least.


Last edited by collingwood77 on Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gunslinger21
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:11 am
Posts: 424
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:51 am 
 

I've been wondering for several years when these guys were going to put out a new album. That sucks :/

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ModusOperandi
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 1553
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:22 am 
 

collingwood77 wrote:
I think you are getting a bit confused or I'm just reading you wrongly. The Hoffman brothers were in Deicide, not VR (i.e. the guitarist Hoffmans not the drummer Hoffmans). Suzuki never played for Deicide to my knowledge, and Jack Owen never played in VR. You should check out VR's Forever Underground album at the least.

Dave did fill in live for a short while but he never joined full-time, which is kind of a shame because I think he would've helped write a really good album or two. It's kind of odd how he's laid relatively low all this while since, as several veteran bands in the genre definitely could've used his songwriting acumen and overall musicianship.
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mirons
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 12:59 pm
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Location: Latvia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:42 am 
 

I enjoy all of their albums, except the last one. I agree that starting with Forever Underground they started to draw out the songs for too long. It wasn't that much of a detriment initially but got worse over time, becoming a nuissance on both Benton albums. I haven't listened to Icons of Evil in a long time, because as far as I remember it had indeed every song played twice. And as much as I respect Dave's musicianship and the tasty solos, I suspect he might have been behind the needlessly long songs, at least the tendency coincides with his time in the band.

I'd also agree that Benton sounded as monotone as a vacuum cleaner on those two albums; Thorn who did vocals on Dawn of the Apocalypse is my favorite vocalist of VR.

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Lagartija
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
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Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:04 pm 
 

I only really like 'Let us pray', I think it's a very varied and interesting album. I tried the others but they just seem very one-dimensional to me, plus the fact that I haven't liked Benton's vocals since 'Serpents of the light'.

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aaronmb666
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:37 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 1:18 am 
 

ModusOperandi wrote:
collingwood77 wrote:
I think you are getting a bit confused or I'm just reading you wrongly. The Hoffman brothers were in Deicide, not VR (i.e. the guitarist Hoffmans not the drummer Hoffmans). Suzuki never played for Deicide to my knowledge, and Jack Owen never played in VR. You should check out VR's Forever Underground album at the least.

Dave did fill in live for a short while but he never joined full-time, which is kind of a shame because I think he would've helped write a really good album or two. It's kind of odd how he's laid relatively low all this while since, as several veteran bands in the genre definitely could've used his songwriting acumen and overall musicianship.


Looking back at some of Bentons interviews at the time, he really implied that he was going to leave Deicide and stay with VR. Then Earache comes along with that great offer, lol.

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Oddeye
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Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:24 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:37 am 
 

I have both Into Cold Darkness and Icons of Evil and the former is easily the superior one. I actually revisited it about a month ago and was pretty shocked by the awesomeness of it.

Icons of Evil has some good stuff but the songs drags on for way the fuck long. I doubt they have it in them to write another good album and didn't Dave Suzuki leave the band?

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collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 334
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:41 am 
 

Oddeye wrote:
I have both Into Cold Darkness and Icons of Evil and the former is easily the superior one. I actually revisited it about a month ago and was pretty shocked by the awesomeness of it.

Icons of Evil has some good stuff but the songs drags on for way the fuck long. I doubt they have it in them to write another good album and didn't Dave Suzuki leave the band?


Yes, I think Suzuki left the band which is a damn shame. It must be a huge challenge for Tony to resurrect the band again and put it in a position to release another great album. As someone else said above, it would be good to see Suzuki's talents displayed again for us to enjoy. (I always smile to think he shares the same name with that more famous David Suzuki, the Canadian scientist - one for the overground, one for the underground.)

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Sick6Six
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Location: Woodstock, IL
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:59 am 
 

I actually loved Dechristianize, pretty much every song was badass, but Entwined by Vengeance was probably my favorite. Icons of Evil had one or two killer songs, but overall not as good. I've never listened to Suzuki's current band, Churchburn, but Vital Remains obviously died when he left.
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praey
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:56 pm 
 

To me Dechristianize sits alongside Demigod as a classic of early 00s blasty death metal. It's not flawless (at times it does feel like every song is played twice), but the combination of furious death metal riffs with hooky melodic breaks is unique. I haven't heard another band that's done anything quite like Dechristianize.

As for their other stuff, Icons of Evil feels like a halfhearted retread of Dechristianize with a few good songs (namely "Born to Rape the World" and "Scorned"). Benton's vocal performance is pretty bland on that one too. I never got into Dawn of the Apocalypse or Let Us Pray. Pray in particular sounds a lot different than their other stuff and never clicked with me. Into Cold Darkness and Forever Underground are both worthwhile albums though, with Darkness being my favorite of the two.

Overall Vital Remains are an interesting band. They have some good albums, some fantastic songs, and a pretty distinct approach, but there have also been some obvious missteps that have prevented them from getting bigger. If they had kept releasing good stuff consistently after Icons of Evil, I could see them being a pretty big force in the scene at this point. As it is I'm not sure we'll ever hear new stuff from them again, especially since (as mentioned above) Suzuki is gone and focusing on Chruchburn.

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collingwood77
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 334
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:26 pm 
 

ModusOperandi wrote:
collingwood77 wrote:
I think you are getting a bit confused or I'm just reading you wrongly. The Hoffman brothers were in Deicide, not VR (i.e. the guitarist Hoffmans not the drummer Hoffmans). Suzuki never played for Deicide to my knowledge, and Jack Owen never played in VR. You should check out VR's Forever Underground album at the least.

Dave did fill in live for a short while but he never joined full-time, which is kind of a shame because I think he would've helped write a really good album or two. It's kind of odd how he's laid relatively low all this while since, as several veteran bands in the genre definitely could've used his songwriting acumen and overall musicianship.


Yeah, I just looked it up, you are absolutely right, mate, my mistake - Dave did play for Deicide live band. I wasn't aware of that.

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Ghost of Christmas Last
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:37 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:59 pm 
 

Been a fan of early/mid VR for the longest time. Forever Underground might come off as a tad tiresome, but I feel like the overall length and the production make up for it. From there on though the repetitiveness does become a bit too much.

A few questions -

Into Cold Darkness just hasn't clicked with me yet. I feel like it would help to listen to some black metal beforehand to get into the mindset? Any advice is appreciated

How does the "offshoot" band Godless Rising fare in here? Don't see it mentioned much but they definitely scratch that itch

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:37 pm 
 

aaronmb666 wrote:
ModusOperandi wrote:
collingwood77 wrote:
I think you are getting a bit confused or I'm just reading you wrongly. The Hoffman brothers were in Deicide, not VR (i.e. the guitarist Hoffmans not the drummer Hoffmans). Suzuki never played for Deicide to my knowledge, and Jack Owen never played in VR. You should check out VR's Forever Underground album at the least.

Dave did fill in live for a short while but he never joined full-time, which is kind of a shame because I think he would've helped write a really good album or two. It's kind of odd how he's laid relatively low all this while since, as several veteran bands in the genre definitely could've used his songwriting acumen and overall musicianship.


Looking back at some of Bentons interviews at the time, he really implied that he was going to leave Deicide and stay with VR. Then Earache comes along with that great offer, lol.


Steve basically said as much in an interview - it looked like the writing was on the wall at the time with Glen leaving Deicide for Vital Remains feeling like a certainty, and then the Hoffmans quit, they got Ralph and Jack, the vibe changed overnight and it felt like a band again instead of a warzone, The Stench of Redemption dropped and dragged Deicide out of their slump, and then things were cool again in Deicideville.

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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:05 pm 
 

I like everything up to and including Dechristianize, with Forever Underground being the apex (albeit a flawed one). No album of theirs is perfect top to bottom, though.

Icons Of Evil is unlistenable (to me). It’s too long, too relentless, too repetitive, and the production/mastering is absolutely ear fatiguing (a trait of Rutan productions, in my view). I might have a different opinion if this album wasn’t so physically painful to listen to. But that’s me.
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77hjrttfred
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:21 pm 
 

FirebathDan wrote:
It’s too long, too relentless, too repetitive, and the production/mastering is absolutely ear fatiguing (a trait of Rutan productions, in my view).


I agree with you about Rutan. Even the production jobs for his own band, Hate Eternal sound off to me. Phoenix Among The Ashes sounds really awful to my ears. He was also involved in that horrible Morbid Angel album, 'Ilud' as well. For a guy who has been around the industry for so long, some (not all) of his production work sounds pretty terrible.

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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:55 am 
 

77hjrttfred wrote:
I agree with you about Rutan. Even the production jobs for his own band, Hate Eternal sound off to me. Phoenix Among The Ashes sounds really awful to my ears. He was also involved in that horrible Morbid Angel album, 'Ilud' as well. For a guy who has been around the industry for so long, some (not all) of his production work sounds pretty terrible.


I should clarify that when I said “ear fatiguing” above, I meant sheer volume rather than shitty tones or whatever.

Icons Of Evil is painful for me to listen to because it’s so fucking loud that everything becomes an almost incomprehensible blur, coupled with everything else I had previously mentioned. That’s at least how I perceive it.
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Forever Underground
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:05 am 
 

What fascinates me most is the disparity in opinions about the different eras, especially Benton's, for some it is the only worthwhile and interesting one and for others it is the one they can't stand.

In my eyes the style that VR ended up drifting into already started on Into Cold Darkness itself on songs like Scrolls of a Millennium Past but I think that style ended up exploding on the fourth album, but there I find enough justification to play the song twice and make the atmosphere more oppressive. I honestly think the only time it gets out of hand is on Icons of Evil.
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ShaunMalice
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:53 pm 
 

I agree with the previous post - VR seem to have a big split in opinions on the eras. I'm seemingly in the minority but Icons of Evil is my favourite and one of my favourite all time albums - I own and enjoy the whole discography but find myself reaching for dechristianize and icons the most. Other than the title track (which is amazing), I find Icons superior to decristianize.

I do hear the repetition of songs that people mention but it hasn't really bothered me. The one dimensional monotony of Benton's voice just gives it a strange demonic inhuman feel, and I love the dynamics of the layers coming in and out - the high shrieks and extreme lows coming in and out just keep engaged. The guitar work is phenomenal - the riffs are memorable and iconic and the neo-classical style of the leads and the execution of the few clean sections are always beautifully placed. I can't quite fathom how Suzuki managed to become so profficient on guitars and drums. The way this album comes together makes it my go to when I want to listen to the most evil, most extreme music that I still find enjoyable and musical.

But again, plainly I'm a rarity here. Always hoped for a follow up but doesn't look like it is going to happen - and without Suzuki I'd be a little wary of getting my hopes up anyway.

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Bingewolf
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:24 pm 
 

I liked VR with Glen Benton on vocals... Probably the only reason we ever heard of them, btw, because without him they are just generic DM.

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collingwood77
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:54 pm 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
I liked VR with Glen Benton on vocals... Probably the only reason we ever heard of them, btw, because without him they are just generic DM.


I think a lot of people, including me, were fans before Benton joined. I can't agree that an album like Forever Underground is just generic DM either.

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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:48 am 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
I liked VR with Glen Benton on vocals... Probably the only reason we ever heard of them, btw, because without him they are just generic DM.


I mean maybe for you, but I knew of Vital Remains in the 90s before Dechristianize. They were in all the metal mags and their previous albums were often given fantastic reviews. So I think your revisionism is not accurate.
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Roc
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:17 am 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
Bingewolf wrote:
I liked VR with Glen Benton on vocals... Probably the only reason we ever heard of them, btw, because without him they are just generic DM.


I mean maybe for you, but I knew of Vital Remains in the 90s before Dechristianize. They were in all the metal mags and their previous albums were often given fantastic reviews. So I think your revisionism is not accurate.


I was also a fan before Dechristianize, and the revisionism is definitely inaccurate. I discovered Vital Remains when I heard the song Forever Underground on a local college radio show, when the album of the same name came out in 1997. I recorded the song onto a blank tape and listened to it constantly until I was able to buy a CD.

Vital Remains were consistently getting high praise, good reviews, and getting interviewed in metal zines and mags. This is what sparked my interest in them in the first place. Then, hearing that song on the radio and being obsessed with it turned me into a fan. A few years later when Glen Benton got involved, my thoughts were that it was awesome that the vocalist from another one of my favorite bands (Deicide) was doing vocals for Vital Remains, and I couldn't wait to hear it! I picked up the CD when it came out and was floored by the epicness of the title track.

I've enjoyed VR's music a lot ever since discovering them through that radio show. I enjoy the Suzuki era the most, and my favorite albums are Forever Underground and Dechristianize. Then Dawn of the Apocalypse and Icons of Evil. Vital Remains are masters of the art of starting albums off with an epic opening song haha :headbang:

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GHOULPOOL
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:25 pm 
 

Huge fan of Vital Remains. Let Us Pray impacted me in such a profound way.

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aaronmb666
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:47 pm 
 

Looks like Tony recovered, as theyre starting to do some shows now.

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Cause of Death
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:51 pm 
 

I met Tony when they opened for Cannibal Corpse in 2010 and I told him how much I love Forever Underground and he seemed really shocked that someone knew that album. I asked if they were playing any of that material and he said no. I also asked him why the songs were all so long and he said "It just comes out that way" :lol:. He then said the new album he had written would be shorter like the old stuff and that Glen Benton would do vocals, and that it would be released "next year".

Saw them again a year later. They had a new drummer & guitarist and neither knew the songs. Had to stop multiple times mid-song cuz the drummer couldn't keep up. It was fucking embarrassing to say the least. Still love all VR but my image of them was kinda ruined after that.

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:44 am 
 

Cause of Death wrote:
I met Tony when they opened for Cannibal Corpse in 2010 and I told him how much I love Forever Underground and he seemed really shocked that someone knew that album. I asked if they were playing any of that material and he said no. I also asked him why the songs were all so long and he said "It just comes out that way" :lol:. He then said the new album he had written would be shorter like the old stuff and that Glen Benton would do vocals, and that it would be released "next year".

Saw them again a year later. They had a new drummer & guitarist and neither knew the songs. Had to stop multiple times mid-song cuz the drummer couldn't keep up. It was fucking embarrassing to say the least. Still love all VR but my image of them was kinda ruined after that.

Alberto Allende was a fucking TRAINWRECK. Word on the street is that Tony was desperate to get someone and things were getting down to the wire, and he hired Alberto sight-unseen. It's funny how the next drummer after that was Jack Blackburn, who is stupid levels of good and easily the best drummer they've ever had to this day.

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collingwood77
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:35 pm 
 

Let's hope for a resurrection (!) of this great band and I hope that Suzuki returms. Forever underground is beyond outstanding but they destroyed their legacy a bit in my eyes after getting into bed with Benton.

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draconiondevil
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:55 pm 
 

I've never really bothered checking this band out but I do own their first album. I might do a discography run just to understand what everyone else is talking about. It has always struck me as odd how they've never put out any albums in the whole time I've been aware of them.
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:13 pm 
 

draconiondevil wrote:
I've never really bothered checking this band out but I do own their first album. I might do a discography run just to understand what everyone else is talking about. It has always struck me as odd how they've never put out any albums in the whole time I've been aware of them.


They have at least two albums worth of unreleased material from various former personnel, possibly more. Tony just doesn't want to put one out and uses the promise of one to keep getting tour offers.

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