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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:50 pm 
 

I thought Firepower was pretty good. Priest has always been a bit shallow, other than Sad Wings but they rock and Firepower rocks as good as anything they have done since reuniting. But then, I like Nostradamus which is unpopular here, so whatever. The only Priest I don't listen to is the Ripper led shit but it seems a lot here like that. Revisionist history, I don't know.

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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:25 pm 
 

Firepower was indeed damn good. Better than anything Maiden put out in the past 20 years Course the burning question is how much of that stuff was Glenn, and how much of the next one is Glenn?
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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:47 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
Firepower was indeed damn good. Better than anything Maiden put out in the past 20 years Course the burning question is how much of that stuff was Glenn, and how much of the next one is Glenn?


Hmmm, I thought it was incredibly generic and it seemed clear that Tipton wasn't involved in the writing. It;s not bad, but it's basically a composite of the heavier songs on any Saxon album released these past 20 years. Angel Of Retribution blows it away, IMO.

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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:59 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
Angel Of Retribution blows it away, IMO.


Not with crap like Lochness and Wheels of Fire it doesn't.
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Metal_Jaw
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:01 am 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:

Not with crap like Lochness and Wheels of Fire it doesn't.


Bad mouthing "Wheels of Fire"? That's a paddlin'...

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metalkeith
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:07 pm
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:24 am 
 

collingwood77 wrote:
But the reunion was largely wasted - two full-length albums is all that they produced, if we ignore the disaster of that concept album. And those two albums - AOR and ROS were not as exciting or as brilliant as many had hoped for. Then we got the outstanding Firepower, but from a very different lineup.


Redeemer is the same lineup and songwriting team as Firepower (at least on paper), so to me that's the first "false" Priest album.

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LunarisIsDead
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:38 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:
Angel Of Retribution blows it away, IMO.


Not with crap like Lochness and Wheels of Fire it doesn't.


Lochness is too long by at least 5 minutes and it still manages to be better than anything on Firepower.
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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:53 pm 
 

collingwood77 wrote:
I have just finished reading Rob Halford's excellent book Confess. That's the most X-rated thing I've read in ages, which might surprise many of you. Innocence is no excuse!

Thanks for recommending this! Just started the audiobook, which is read by him.
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collingwood77
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:25 pm 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
I thought Firepower was pretty good. Priest has always been a bit shallow, other than Sad Wings but they rock and Firepower rocks as good as anything they have done since reuniting. But then, I like Nostradamus which is unpopular here, so whatever. The only Priest I don't listen to is the Ripper led shit but it seems a lot here like that. Revisionist history, I don't know.


I think the biggest revisionist history is to disrespect British Steel because, when it came out and for at least five years after that, it was universally praised as a step in the right direction.

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collingwood77
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:26 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
collingwood77 wrote:
I have just finished reading Rob Halford's excellent book Confess. That's the most X-rated thing I've read in ages, which might surprise many of you. Innocence is no excuse!

Thanks for recommending this! Just started the audiobook, which is read by him.


Wow, him reading out his sexscapades might be beyond what I could handle!

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:49 pm 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
Benedict Donald wrote:
Angel Of Retribution blows it away, IMO.


Not with crap like Lochness and Wheels of Fire it doesn't.


"Lochness" rules!!

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 842
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:28 pm 
 

Lochness is amazing. Priest go epic doom metal and it really works. They should have just gone for it and explored that direction more.

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Benedict Donald
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:47 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Lochness is amazing. Priest go epic doom metal and it really works. They should have just gone for it and explored that direction more.


totally agree.

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KaiKasparek
Metalhead

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Location: Suomi Finland Bukkake
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:05 pm 
 

collingwood77 wrote:
oldmetalhead wrote:
I thought Firepower was pretty good. Priest has always been a bit shallow, other than Sad Wings but they rock and Firepower rocks as good as anything they have done since reuniting. But then, I like Nostradamus which is unpopular here, so whatever. The only Priest I don't listen to is the Ripper led shit but it seems a lot here like that. Revisionist history, I don't know.


I think the biggest revisionist history is to disrespect British Steel because, when it came out and for at least five years after that, it was universally praised as a step in the right direction.



Crock of shit. British Steel is a good, even a great album. But it is a very dumbed down version of the albums that came before it.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:12 pm 
 

True to an extent, but I'd argue the dumbing down started on KM/HBFL, a record which is a notable step away from the complexity and gloom of Stained Class (Take On The World is basically the first draft of United).

Actually, some songs on British Steel rebalance things towards the heavy/complex side of things again - Rapid Fire, The Rage and Steeler.

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collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
True to an extent, but I'd argue the dumbing down started on KM/HBFL, a record which is a notable step away from the complexity and gloom of Stained Class (Take On The World is basically the first draft of United).

Actually, some songs on British Steel rebalance things towards the heavy/complex side of things again - Rapid Fire, The Rage and Steeler.


I'm not saying you're wrong to call it "dumbing down" but you have to remember that the first wave of punk (1976-78) basically destroyed heavy metal and hard rock in Britain. Priest had to survive. So the NWOBHM, for the most part, led to shorter songs and more simplified song structures as well as punkish energy. Priest (not NWOBHM) also changed around this time, probably due in part to the subconscious influence of punk - British Steel is not dumbed down compared to most NWOBHM bands either (say Saxon and Venom as good examples or the first two Maiden albums).

Rapid Fire is one of those rare songs of that era without a chorus, just thought I'd mention that!

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:48 pm 
 

Really not sure if the punk movement did destroy heavy metal/hard rock in the UK during the late 70s. Sure, it definitely had an effect - a lot of the NWOBHM bands tapped into the energy of the punk scene, if not the music - but an awful lot of the "punk vs prog" or "punk revolution" thing was basically hyped up by the NME in order to sell copy. Plenty of people liked more traditional stuff and prog as well as the punk bands, the either/or attitude was played up by the press a lot.

This theory also doesn't explain Maiden, who got massively popular pretty quickly despite having a musical approach and style heavily rooted in 70s prog bands like Genesis etc., with long epic songs like Phantom of the Opera on their debut album.

Priest's shift towards a lighter and more accessible style on HBFL/KM is something that I think was influenced less by punk and more by a decision to go for the more radio friendly end of the market in order to prepare for cracking North America. As their 80s career shows, this worked VERY well indeed.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:12 pm 
 

As someone who never heard of Priest until the 90s and never became a fan of the band until around 2005, let me give my take on why I think British Steel sucks.

I was a big VH1 watcher in the 90s, and the specials they had on hard rock and heavy metal would have me believe that Priest was so great and legendary based as best exemplified by Breaking the Law and You've Got Another Thing Coming, the latter of which I would often hear on the local hard rock station (I know it's not from British Steel, stay with me). When this was the only Priest I knew, I would look back on my Metallicas and Black Sabbaths and just not get what was so special about this band. These songs were not very heavy, not very exciting, basically "dad rock" before dad rock had a name. And it's hard to use "Well it doesn't seem heavy because it so old" as an excuse when both 70s and early 80s Black Sabbath was already so near and dear to me by that point.

Eventually, due to a couple things, I got it in my head that maybe Priest were better in the 70s. I got Sad Wings of Destiny, and I don't think my expectations were blown away even remotely approaching that much before or since. Victim of Changes: Oh my god, this is amazing! The Ripper: Oh my god, this is amazing! Dreamer Deceiver: OH MY FUCKING GOD WHERE HAS THIS ALBUM BEEN MY WHOLE LIFE?????? This, this right here is why Priest is so great and so legendary. I eventually went through their entire back catalogue, Ripper albums and all. And listening to British Steel with a more open mind, and being weary "well maybe the album is better than the hit single(s), the singles are the way they are because it was meant for the radio, maybe the rest of the album will be better".... Well, Rapid Fire and Rage and/or Steeler were pretty good, but the rest of the album..... the riffs are just so bad. I get the argument that Killing Machine is dumbed down, but they're still good riffs. The majority of British Steel is like REJECTED AC/DC riffs. And when I say this, I need to stress something: Classic AC/DC is pretty great. British Steel is not good AC/DC. British Steel is not mediocre AC/DC. British Steel is chock full of riffs that I imagine Angus and Malcolm might come up with, and then decide to leave them on the cutting room floor because they sucked. That is British Steel to me. They tried to be AC/DC, and on a commercial level I guess they succeeded, but on an artistic level they fell flat on their face playing REJECTED AC/DC riffs.

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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:18 pm 
 

Sorry, even if it's simplified and inspired by AC/DC (KK acknowledges this himself), it's still a different style of riffing than AC/DC. If you think the album is crap, fair enough, but I think it's the rhythm section on that album that's more inspired by AC/DC than it is the riffs themselves.
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LithoJazzoSphere
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:49 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
This theory also doesn't explain Maiden, who got massively popular pretty quickly despite having a musical approach and style heavily rooted in 70s prog bands like Genesis etc., with long epic songs like Phantom of the Opera on their debut album.


While this is true, those earlier albums in particular did have punk energy to them, especially with Di'Anno's vocal stylings, the higher speeds, and the prominent bass lines. I've always found it hilarious that people would point this out to Harris in interviews and he would be visibly uncomfortable with the idea, but I think it's accurate, and gave them cross-genre appeal.

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:41 pm 
 

^ That is true. Di'Anno brought a lot of punk energy to Maiden's sound ( I think he was the main band member who liked that type of music).

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collingwood77
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:32 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
This theory also doesn't explain Maiden, who got massively popular pretty quickly despite having a musical approach and style heavily rooted in 70s prog bands like Genesis etc., with long epic songs like Phantom of the Opera on their debut album.


While this is true, those earlier albums in particular did have punk energy to them, especially with Di'Anno's vocal stylings, the higher speeds, and the prominent bass lines. I've always found it hilarious that people would point this out to Harris in interviews and he would be visibly uncomfortable with the idea, but I think it's accurate, and gave them cross-genre appeal.


I agree, I think there is such a thing as being subconsciously influenced by something because it is in the atmosphere, the spirit of the times, if you like. So Priest may have been subconsciously influenced by punk, they realized that long songs with intricate virtuosity weren't compatible with the spirit or the mood of the times. I know they wanted to make it big in America, but it is possible to be influenced by more than one thing at a time, especially once we introduce subconscious influences.

Di'Anno was accepted by the punks, as were the first two Maiden albums. The covers show Eddie in realistic suburban night settings, I think the inspiration was Notting Hill in West London, and he had more of a punk hairstyling too. Then you had Eddie standing over the body of Margaret Thatcher, a real punk/political concept indeed. I think that the punk style left with Di'Anno.

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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:02 pm 
 

Steve Harris bristled at being compared to punk music because he always felt that they (punk bands) couldn't even play their instruments and Maiden was competing with British punk acts for gigs in the early days. I can see where Di'anno had a certain punk delivery in his vocal style but any comparison of early Maiden to punk ends there.

Priest never had any punk styling's whatsoever.

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collingwood77
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:14 pm 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
Steve Harris bristled at being compared to punk music because he always felt that they (punk bands) couldn't even play their instruments and Maiden was competing with British punk acts for gigs in the early days. I can see where Di'anno had a certain punk delivery in his vocal style but any comparison of early Maiden to punk ends there.

Priest never had any punk styling's whatsoever.


I never said that Priest had any punk stylings. Harris himself despised punk, but that doesn't mean that punk had no influence on the band or the sound or the artwork. As I said earlier, it was in the spirit of the times. It is like how nowadays we might put on a face mask or keep social distance without thinking consciously about it, and that will probably keep going for a while after the rules end. (OK, that's not the best analogy but I hope you get my point.)

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Space_alligator
Metalhead

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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:57 pm 
 

We can blame Halford...

https://loudwire.com/rob-halford-four-piece-judas-priest-lineup-his-idea/
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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:59 pm 
 

Good on him to listen to the fans, admit his mistake, and make it right. A very rare thing in a rock star.
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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:51 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
Good on him to listen to the fans, admit his mistake, and make it right. A very rare thing in a rock star.

Well, it's basically his band now, where else would the decision come from, Ian Hill? I do give Rob credit for admitting the obvious.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:50 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
I wonder if Halford and Hill were reminiscing about some gig in Newcastle back in 1973 they played, when they were a 4 piece, and decided it would be a good idea between themselves to revisit that sound. I can't imagine money being too big a factor here, I mean, it is Judas Priest.


I wasn't too far from this.
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CoconutBackwards
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:57 am 
 

Space_alligator wrote:


“ I think my heart was in the right place, but I’m not the first musician to have a crazy idea.”

You’re the first person in Judas Priest to come up with something this level of stupid.
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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:44 am 
 

still didnt really explain his reasoning.

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KaiKasparek
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:20 pm 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Eventually, due to a couple things, I got it in my head that maybe Priest were better in the 70s. I got Sad Wings of Destiny, and I don't think my expectations were blown away even remotely approaching that much before or since. Victim of Changes: Oh my god, this is amazing! The Ripper: Oh my god, this is amazing! Dreamer Deceiver: OH MY FUCKING GOD WHERE HAS THIS ALBUM BEEN MY WHOLE LIFE?????? This, this right here is why Priest is so great and so legendary. I eventually went through their entire back catalogue, Ripper albums and all.


The uber popularity of Sad Wings of Destiny is so befuddling to me. The album definitely has a lot of forward thinking ideas and solid songs. But the production is just so lackluster and the performances are so limp. Both 76 Thin Lizzy albums, 2112 (when its actually heavy) and Rainbow Rising blow Sad Wings out of the water in terms of punch. Metal is supposed to have punch regardless of what year it was recorded. I think one of the smartest things Priest did was stack as many Sad Wings songs as they reasonably could onto Unleashed In The East, to given them the firepower they deserved. No way would Victim Of Changes and The Ripper be beloved live staples if they weren't on it.

In terms of accomplishment, I'll admit Sad Wings of Destiny beats British Steel, but the latter just has more fight to it. Neither one of them hold a candle to Stained Class or Killing Machine though.

God on Rob for admitting the 4 piece idea was dumb.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:36 am 
 

Sad Wings is great because it has those heavy songs and also the more sensitive parts. Very well rounded.

These days I would say Sin After Sin is the best Priest album though. Amazingly versatile and dexterous work.
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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:41 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Sad Wings is great because it has those heavy songs and also the more sensitive parts. Very well rounded.

These days I would say Sin After Sin is the best Priest album though. Amazingly versatile and dexterous work.


Sad Wings is also a great contrast if you compare it to the album before. Such a progression is something that is rarely heard of or even hard to conceive. Plus - the songs just slay in terms of dynamics and power.

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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:46 am 
 

Sin After Sin would be my favorite if not for two issues:

a) The lame studio version of Starbreaker (fucking handclaps, again thank god for Unleashed In The East)

b) Last Rose of Summer, which just blows.

You definitely see something (as well as metal) developing and almost reaching its full potential, and then Stained Class just takes off like a rocket.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:02 am 
 

Eh both of those tracks are among the standouts for me. No bad songs at all really.
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oldmetalhead
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:09 am 
 

The production on Sin After Sin doesn't capture the power of the guitar riffs, they sound like they are coming from car speakers in a cardboard box. Even Rob's vocals sound too far back in the mix. Great songs though, much better live than that recording.

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Zdan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:27 am 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
The production on Sin After Sin doesn't capture the power of the guitar riffs, they sound like they are coming from car speakers in a cardboard box. Even Rob's vocals sound too far back in the mix. Great songs though, much better live than that recording.


None of the early Priest albums are all that well produced. They sound good enough and that is it. The structure is there though.

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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:35 am 
 

KaiKasparek wrote:
Dennis Stratton?


Why would Priest hire a washed up 69-year old senior citizen who hasn’t played anything of note in forty-two years to grind out a grueling tour with? If they’re going to need a replacement, they want o go for younger not older. You must have just picked that name out of a hat. Not even Maiden would ask him back if they so needed a guitarist replacement.

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Paka01
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:05 pm 
 

marktheviktor wrote:
KaiKasparek wrote:
Dennis Stratton?


Why would Priest hire a washed up 69-year old senior citizen who hasn’t played anything of note in forty-two years to grind out a grueling tour with? If they’re going to need a replacement, they want o go for younger not older. You must have just picked that name out of a hat. Not even Maiden would ask him back if they so needed a guitarist replacement.


His albums with Praying Mantis are fantastic and two albums with Di'Anno are also really good.
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KaiKasparek
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:25 pm 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
The production on Sin After Sin doesn't capture the power of the guitar riffs, they sound like they are coming from car speakers in a cardboard box. Even Rob's vocals sound too far back in the mix. Great songs though, much better live than that recording.


So do the guitars on Sad Wings of Destiny.

marktheviktor wrote:
KaiKasparek wrote:
Dennis Stratton?
You must have just picked that name out of a hat.
As a matter of fact, I did.
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