Sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean on the influence they've had on metal (i.e., metal bands copying them). I definitely think they were an influence on Neurosis - but also don't think Neurosis sound much like them.

On the other hand, Glenn Branca certainly influenced Swans, probably Neubauten did too, so yeah I agree.

Sorry, I was editing my message to make it more clear:

"Maybe some Neubauten, Glenn Branca, etc. but they were heavy in a different more noise and abrasive way. As you say, it wasn't until a few years later than that whole sound took off: Coil, Ministry, Godflesh, etc".

True, and the mighty Young Gods, who even named themselves after one of their records.

Even their new stuff is pretty heavy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAMyKtJJ784



5:50 onwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFHQiYvuVlM

WARHORSE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWV7Cctmbc

I'd have gone so far as to say they took up the mantle from Electric Wizard, but EW still released the thermonuclear warhead that is Let Us Prey a year after Warhorse's debut (and only album).

Also, in terms of doom metal, my vote goes for Buried at Sea. That riff at 5:00 is the heaviest riff ever composed imho.

❤️

I was just listening to Panzerchrist’s Room Service which I hadn’t pulled out in many a year, and yeah… that album is a bludgeon of heaviness.

Bass heavy

Swans definitely are among the heaviest bands ever, no contest. I was listening to Filth earlier and now Cop. Legendary band.

For my taste I cannot get over Anaal Nathrakh, it's just hands down them for me; even the chugalug album they did. Other than them, maybe Vital Remains on a good day, and early Metallica really has something to it like Leper Messiah's main riff, the section after the solo in Battery, but maybe that's me appealing to the more punky sounding parts of them instead of the metal parts that I think heavy. If Demilich was more uptempo, had more harmony and melody the way Vital Remains does then I'd say that's limit-case heaviness for me.

As a technical note I wouldn't rule out the live performance aspect of heaviness, For Whom The Bells Tolls sounds really heavy to me in the Seattle 89 concert for some reason, Slayer too, but when I listen back to the studio album it's way less heavy.

I know when we think of the heaviest doom metal band Electric Wizard usually comes up but I don't know if they've released something sounding as heavy as Rameses, there's just something about that tone:


Immolation has got to be up there too, I mean come on:


Personally though I just feel like Lord Mantis is the heaviest thing I've ever heard:

Taking a look at what EW put out after the original lineup split vs. what Ramesses did, I think Ramesses come on top both in terms of sheer heaviness and amazing songwriting. The two first LPs (plus the demo stuff) are heavier than a coffin on your shoulder, catchy as fuck and really fun to listen to, but the last LP Possessed by the Rise of Magick is a truly mindbending piece of fucked up psychedelic sludge that is at the brink of falling apart at any moment, they really tapped into something special for that record that no one else really did before, or after. Too bad we never got a follow-up, I think they definitely were the better half of the original Electric Wizard.

My picks are Meshuggah and Strapping Young Lad.

Meshuggah really got heavy when they got their 8 string guitars for the Obzen album, and songs like Bleed are just crushing as a result. Also, they use a lot of toms and patterns that create this tribal, groove feeling that really hits too.



Devin when he created Strapping saw Fear Factory live and wanted to create something similar but up the intensity, and I feel he succeeded in spades. It's a shame they are no longer together, but Devin still plays some songs from the catalogue for live shows or live streams.

Thanks for this--somehow I never checked out much of Ramesses besides maybe the debut if memory serves, which struck me as solid but not particularly memorable. Well, I'm listening to Possessed by the Rise of Magik right now and damn you're not kidding. Really impressive stuff.

What are your thoughts on Cough's Ritual Abuse? I always thought that was a massively underrated album that felt like a sequel-in-spirit to Let Us Prey.

Question for discussion:
do you believe that the more 'extreme' music is, the heavier it is, by definition?

No, not entirely, I think in order for me to categorize something as super heavy it has to have this pure malevolence about it, that's why I say something like Darkness descends is heavier than insert generic brutal death metal song, the riffs on DD just have this impossibly ugly and frightening sound to them, and I think just the ugliness conjures up a lot more heaviness than blasting all the time

Idk that probably sounds dumb, but that's my definition of super heavy. It's all about the feelings the music communicates to me, not just whatever is more out there and "brutal" and bludgeoning I guess.

I'm on the same page. In fact, some of the more extreme music lacks heaviness, IMO. Annaal Naakrath (spelling?) doesn't sound truly heavy to me, at all. Dynamics are a necessity to create a truly heavy atmosphere, and the two albums of theirs I've heard, sorely lack that.

I tend to find music that's simaltaneously intense, dynamic, and "larger than life" to be truly heavy. (Not sure what other phrase to use aside from "larger than life", which is admittedly vague.) The combination of the three is needed.

Not personally no. To me, and this is just my opinion and I respect dissenting views, but I always equated “heavy” with “slow”. So electric wizard or early Cathedral = heavy. On the other hand, the real fast stuff I labeled “extreme” as opposed to “heavy”. Two distinct attributes that kinda lead to the same thing. I.E., while heavy does not equate to extreme and vice versa, the terms both overlap in some ven diagram relating to non/mainstream genres? Don’t know if I’m making sense or not. Likely the latter. Oh well.

Heaviness is a wide spectrum for me. Personally, anything I'd consider really heavy is either: very fast paced (thinking of stuff like Fleshgod Apocalypse here), very VERY slow (idk, early Shape of Despair and stuff? Let's say, generally funeral doom) or something very VERY dramatic (huge orchestrations coupled with a strong guitar riff support and the like).

Basically, anything that makes my blood boil and gives me goosebumps.

I used to listen to Ritual Abuse fairly regularly some years ago, although I'm not much into stoner doom these days anymore, so it's been a while since I last heard it. On the other hand, I think Let Us Prey is possibly the most underrated LP in Electric Wizard's discography.

Not necessarily, though I think extreme music lends itself to naturally being a bit heavier by design. I definitely don't think complexity has much to do with heaviness, though. I would put Candlemass - "Copernicus" up against any tech-death band for raw heaviness.

Another example of this that I find interesting is Nile. Much of Nile's music is made up of complex/technical/intricate passages, but their heaviest moments are always the simplest ones, for me. For example, "User Maat Re" has one of the heaviest sequences that I've ever heard, and its quite simple (guitar-wise, I mean. The drums are obviously at hyper-speed).

5:01

Yeah, it's weird how LUP ended up kinda buried in their discography. It's probably my favorite EW record after Come My Fanatics.

Equally weird how that particular type of stoner doom seemingly fizzled out in the early 2010s. I had high hopes for Cough's followup to Ritual Abuse, but it just ended up being pretty unmemorable. Besides Ritual Abuse (and my recent discovery of that Ramsses) I have not heard anything in the past ten years that even approached the EW golden era. Even all the EW-copycat bands I heard just either started to get more sludgy or go down the mellow space-rock-styled stoner doom.

Love this thread. I was going to make a very similar thread to this one. But since this has already been discussed, I will give a couple of recommendations. First, we have to define heavy, when I think of something heavy in musical terms I think of a mix between down-tempo guitars that crush your skull and a very fast and chaotic wall of sound that melts your brain.

Nithing - Agonal Hymns



This is probably the heaviest album that I have ever listened to. I really dare you to post something heavier than this.

Cryptopsy - Blasphemy Made Flesh



This one is a classic among brutal death metal fans. I have to say that, it's weird but Cryptopsy released their heaviest album in their first Full Lenght LP, this classic of 1994 is a little bit heavier than None So Vile, is a lot more chaotic, and is one landmark of what can heavy music reach in an album.

Devourment - Obscene Majesty



This is easily their heaviest album to date. Is not as dirty and gory as Molesting the Decapitated, but is a lot heavier and more structured, one sonic killing machine this album is. I always get in a trance when I hear this and always listen to the whole album since the songs connect really well with each other.

After going through this thread briefly, it appears many have quite different ideas of what constitutes heavy music. I get it though, another subjective topic about subjective topics

I would say Abysmal Torment is one of the heaviest band in the universe. Just listening to Cultivate The Apostate.

Poison Idea might not be the heaviest band but they are the best punk band that isn't the Germs.

I'm in doubt between Nattefrost and Mütiilation

Finally someone mentioned Devourment. Band that defines the concept of heavy in metal.

Top-notch band, the creators of slam, and the leaders of the Texas death metal scene.

yup

Well if we're taking into account the entire universe, it seems Wizardthrone might be in the running.