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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1477
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:27 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
MetlaNZ wrote:
That and when they started blabbering on about some sorta possible Satanic conspiracy between Voivod and Celtic Frost. Definitely the signs of someone who's losing the plot.


Well, yes, that part is kind of problematic for sure. The statements he made and the amount of guilty by association and suspicious connexions he's drawing between bands for completely unreasonable motives, are concerning for sure.

But the meere fact that he is a Christian shouldn't bother people.



It's not that he's a Christian in itself. It's that he's THAT type of Christian:

Quote:
I recently converted to Christianity, and ditched all extreme metal overnight. Roughly 95% of black metal, 80% of death metal, and 60% of thrash would be incompatible with my beliefs


I know Christians who have no trouble listening to black metal or death metal. They realize it's just music, for most bands it's sheer shock value or the equivalent of writing a horror movie or fantasy movie in musical form. Doing something overnight doesn't strike me as "reasonable Christian".

Also, in light of everything that I've pointed out, I think it's **distasteful** to convert to Christianity. I don't mean "start believing in an higher power", I mean specifically "Christianity that needs to find purity with God by ditching music".

I also think that someone who posts such a message so early in their forum history to be suspicious. That's exactly the type of comment I would expect from a troll.

EDIT: No offense to metal_monk in particular, really, but I have no love for religion in general, and given the current political climate, for Christianity in particular. I don't particularly like that death cult. They're doing too much damage currently.

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:39 pm 
 

Yeah, I get what you mean. It's also hard to believe that someone who takes such an absolutist and "by the book" stance on Christianity doesn't have fucked up views on other things.

Well, I guess only time will tell if metal monk is "one of these" Christians, haha

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PurpleDoom
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:39 pm
Posts: 430
Location: Gazing into the deep
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:51 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Wilytank wrote:
Let's be honest. If you're not even 10 posts into a metal forum and you're already talking about your absolutist mindset about subgenres due to your belief system, you really shouldn't be surprised about getting clowned on.


I also strongly agree with this.

I don't want to dig my feet in too deep on this, since forums are gonna forum and it's not my job to police the community. I just don't think "I don't want to listen to music that clashes with my religious beliefs" is a particularly weird thing to say, and many (though not all) of the responses went straight to attacking their religion rather than responding to aspects like writing off entire subgenres rather than specific bands or the weird Celtic Frost/Voivod implication that warranted criticism and conversation.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:22 pm 
 

Yeah - nobody has to listen to anything they don't want to. Feel free.

That said, when you throw out the kind of statements this person has, well, people get defensive.

I'll keep listening to Pharaoh, Voivod and Celtic Frost as much as I want to personally. All some of metal's best acts in general.
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metallic_monk
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:01 pm
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:54 am 
 

I mentioned my conversion early on because my conscience compelled me to (plus my recent experience with Pharaoh really sounded on topic to me). I'd rather be polarizing from the get go, and people know what I stand for, than weasel my way through a community that has a higher statistical chance of being against it, as I would feel like a coward and hypocrite otherwise, so I was also testing the waters. I'm absolutely not surprised at the response, and if anything I'm grateful for the level headed discussion and nuanced takes, even if opposing ones.

The whole bit about discarding entire genres I agree was unnecessary in this thread, I was mixing too many things at once, not the place for that.

Re my "witch hunt" thing, this also goes back to the concept of conscience. If a band is tagged as "satanic" on rateyourmusic or uses pentagrams, inverted crosses and drawings of baphomet without context, this is a hard no, as they aknowledge both sides and picked that of the enemy, even if they don't realize it. If a band is tagged as "anti-religious" and I like the music, I will check the lyrics, imagery, and affiliations. If it's criticising the historical faults like Manilla Road on the Deluge, or in a questioning way like Coroner in Divine Step or Pale Sister, I'll give it an uneasy pass. It's just that I have to do research before being able to listen to something "in good conscience", to be sure they are not anti God or praising satan, instead of just criticising the institution.

The one thing that gave me pause is the people saying they have a personal trauma related to religion. I get why they would have an aversion to it all and were treating this as a space where they could avoid it. I'm working through childhood trauma myself, I didn't mean to be triggering. As already said I'm in the relatively rare situation of starting from an almost blank slate. I didn't even actively seek it out, it found me. It was the unexpected result of a self actualisation and spiritual truth-seeking journey about myself and the world. I was able to skip the middle man and dive straight into the philosofical and theological concepts, mostly by studying on my own.

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In_Zane
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 475
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:34 am 
 

I think it's funny how ''Satan'' or ''Satanism'' is the enemy.

How many have been butchered and slaughtered under the name of ''Satan'', compared to that of ''God''?
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metallic_monk
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:01 pm
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:07 am 
 

In_Zane wrote:
How many have been butchered and slaughtered under the name of ''Satan'', compared to that of ''God''?


This is also something I'm trying to wrap my head around. But I'm not going to renounce to a message that to me is the truth, just because people were twisting or unable to stick to it and giving it a bad name. Also there are some cases where things are inherently good or inherently evil, you have to take a stance. Some wars, as horibble as they are, are/were justified. I don't want to bring the crusades and other such examples into this, as I don't have enough historic knowledge, but just as a general principle. Even the current Ukraine/Russia example, I couldn't think of a more clear cut example of good vs evil, and it's especially hilarious considering the Russians claim to be some defenders of Christianity. The disconnect is hard.

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Kutulu
Tzeentchian Rubric Manipulator

Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:13 am
Posts: 613
Location: Prospero, Ultima Segmentum
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:10 am 
 

Can't believe discussion is still going on with this obvious troll.

On the flip side, I actively avoid any metal produced by Christians, especially of the born again variety.

I can't stand any of Burzum's material and it's perplexing to me that Burzum is still held in such high regard.
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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 4:12 am 
 

Kutulu wrote:
I can't stand any of Burzum's material and it's perplexing to me that Burzum is still held in such high regard.


Amen to that.

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wone21r
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:26 am
Posts: 171
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:33 am 
 

Kutulu wrote:
Can't believe discussion is still going on with this obvious troll.


Yep. I took it to be a parody critique of the "You're either 100% with me or your against me" post, which then makes the following conversation a fair bit more interesting if viewing it from that perspective.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:39 am 
 

The funniest part to me is that how prosperity gospel and LeVayan Satanism are both essentially Ayn Rand talking points spruced up with Abrahamic imagery. Not to mention all the NSBM bands who use satan as part of their imagery but believe in a lot of the same traditional values and social conservatism as many evangelical Christians.
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CannibalCorpse
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
Posts: 1014
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:53 am 
 

metallic_monk wrote:
...as they aknowledge both sides and picked that of the enemy, even if they don't realize it


If this came out of the mouth of my grandma (pretty close to 90 years old and raised in almost extremist catholic ways) I could pass that off as yesteryear's nonsense, but holy shit, give me a break.
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LilTito
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:30 pm 
 

Damn guys i hate christianity as much as the next atheist but holy hell just let this guy be

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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1618
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:43 pm 
 

We're under no obligation to be nice to very stupid people.
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MorbidEngel
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 1464
Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:58 pm 
 

Nor are we under any obligation to give them an audience.

Come on now.
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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 1:03 pm 
 

CannibalCorpse wrote:
metallic_monk wrote:
...as they aknowledge both sides and picked that of the enemy, even if they don't realize it


If this came out of the mouth of my grandma (pretty close to 90 years old and raised in almost extremist catholic ways) I could pass that off as yesteryear's nonsense, but holy shit, give me a break.


Yeah, this. I was going to answer that post you quoted, but decided against it, then I saw it again when you quoted it, and damn, this is terribly pompous, self-righteous and down-right moralizing. It's hard to have constructive discussions with people like this.

It's also hard to believe that someone who makes these kinds of claims doesn't have messed up views on a bunch of things like homosexuality, trans people and women...

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Lee Harrison
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
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Location: Italy
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 1:34 pm 
 

Sadly this Catholics never have read a single lines of gospels or mountain speech…

Maybe can learn to be more tolerant.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9313
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:01 am 
 

Voivod and Celtic Frost toured together in 1986, both doing their first shows in the United States. They rode together, ate teh same food, probably used a lot of the same equipment, had a common language that set them apart from others even though they were from different continents. I expect that has a lot to do with how they became fond of each other.
Both bands were fans of Venom, especially in the early days. That doesn't mean they worship the devil. For most of us, that sort of thing just isn't bothersome and teh idea of covering "In League with Satan" or "Evil" 9mercyful Fate) just sounds like a really fun idea.
I too can't tell if this is a real Monk or a troll Monk, but I expect in time, if this is real, they'll probably relax about this kind of stuff. Hopefully anyway.
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Required Fields
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 pm
Posts: 1248
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:24 pm 
 

I remember interacting with a religious metal fan online who has no problems listening to bands like Possessed, but can't listen to bands like Immolation.

Possessed, he claims, really didn't believe in the Satan stuff and were writing those lyrics merely for shock value. Bands like Immolation are different, because it's more anti-Christian than theatrical Satan stuff.
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HighwayCorsair
Knows a guy

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:32 pm 
 

I had a very Christian buddy years ago that said he had yet to find a band that was genuinely blasphemous in a way that bothered him despite how religious he is. He said that for a band to really offend him, they would have to admit that God is real, God is great, God is the one true god, and choose to turn to Satan anyways.
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CannibalCorpse
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
Posts: 1014
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:12 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
It's hard to have constructive discussions with people like this.


Story of my teen life, growing up in the Eastern Alps. I've been surrounded by almost fanatic Catholics in my childhood, trying to shove me into their preferred perspective but all it did was put me onto blasphemous ways in my early teens ^^

Quote:
It's also hard to believe that someone who makes these kinds of claims doesn't have messed up views on a bunch of things like homosexuality, trans people and women...


Which pretty much goes hand in hand with such people. I can't recall knowing a single openly homosexual being in said time (no surprise, in hindsight), it was totally strange for me to meet people that weren't exclusively heterosexual after moving to a large city. I admit it took me a little while to see that they were actually normal people too. Sounds embarrassing today, but that's what it was, my views today have obviously changed dramatically and I'm glad for that.
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ModusOperandi
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 1553
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:13 pm 
 

HighwayCorsair wrote:
I had a very Christian buddy years ago that said he had yet to find a band that was genuinely blasphemous in a way that bothered him despite how religious he is. He said that for a band to really offend him, they would have to admit that God is real, God is great, God is the one true god, and choose to turn to Satan anyways.

A pro wrestling heel turn, that's wonderful. :lol:
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Lee Harrison
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
Posts: 1458
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:41 pm 
 

Required Fields wrote:
I remember interacting with a religious metal fan online who has no problems listening to bands like Possessed, but can't listen to bands like Immolation.

Possessed, he claims, really didn't believe in the Satan stuff and were writing those lyrics merely for shock value. Bands like Immolation are different, because it's more anti-Christian than theatrical Satan stuff.

Immolation ‘s lyrics make you think and are very deep but are more on political side than on spirituality…

Father you not a father makes me shiver…

religion is a human construct and like all human things fallacious,for Feuerbach is an alienation and a projection of predicates and attributes human to the deity.
“ the personality of God is the personality of man freed from all the determinations and limitations of nature"
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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 6268
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:01 pm 
 

I wish it was easier to sort out the bands who were genuine satanists from those who are doing it “for shock value.” At this point, I just assume every single Satan band is trying to be the latter and it’s kind of boring. If you expect everyone to be shocking, it really isn’t all that shocking. The only way I can even imagine it being provocative anymore is if they presented satan as a more androgynous figure than the male power fantasy as usually portrayed by metal bands.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:02 pm 
 

Satan being transgender... heh heh, that'd ruffle some feathers for sure. Of course, the people whose feathers would be ruffled already believe that transgender people are Satan spawn, so...
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dike
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:15 pm
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:06 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I wish it was easier to sort out the bands who were genuine satanists from those who are doing it “for shock value.” At this point, I just assume every single Satan band is trying to be the latter and it’s kind of boring. If you expect everyone to be shocking, it really isn’t all that shocking. The only way I can even imagine it being provocative anymore is if they presented satan as a more androgynous figure than the male power fantasy as usually portrayed by metal bands.


Satan has often been depicted in an androgynous form so that wouldn't be all that weird.

My biggest gripe with the Satanic theme is that it's been done and done again. There is no creativity involved in it. Right now the biggest trend is to appear super serious and steal material for the lyrics from the 218-current of anti-cosmic satanism. I don't know how many more band I can take who has the same kind of lyrics, all drawing inspiration from the same source. Come on, at least be creative about it! At least move away from the judeo-christian and hindu pantheon. How about a band rooted in the dark aspects of islamic or buddhist mythology?

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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:23 pm 
 

Basically, we don't need Satan as long as we have humans. Write about their deeds and their everyday, habitual evils, which are insurmountably more horrific than anything a mythical cartoonish figure is capable of. Now that's a novelty!

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Auselesspileofflesh
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:41 pm
Posts: 684
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:55 pm 
 

MorbidEngel wrote:
There's a fair amount of stuff that I listen to that's stained by people involved:
Burzum
Dissection
Gorgoroth
Emperor (and anything that Faust was involved in)
Darkthrone's Transylvanian Hunger (since Varg wrote some lyrics)
Inquisition (though I've listened to them far less since that last scandal)
Gloryhammer/Alestorm
Pantera
Mayhem
Thorns
Drudkh
Sword of Darkness (obscure Vietnamese symphonic black metal band, once they broke up one of the guys started Vothana)
Michael Jackson
Iced Earth
Judas Priest (Dave Holland material)
Young and in the Way
Horna (stuff before Werewolf left the band)
Pretty much any 80's glam band that didn't check if their groupies were underage or not

I really, really hate to admit that the last Nokturnal Mortum, Drowning the Light and Satanic Warmaster albums were actually enjoyable, because all three bands involve dishonest pieces of shit about "oh we're not nazis"

The only two I can outright remember that actions of a band member actively turned me away from the band are:
Carpe Noctem
Goatlord

Not metal but I recently learned what Randy Scott (founder of Art Data Interactive and the main guy behind the surprisingly good soundtrack (and the only good thing about)) Doom on the 3DO did. That felt like Inquisition all over again.



Gotta ask, what did Alestorm do?

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Hecatomb867
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:56 pm
Posts: 247
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:33 pm 
 

Auselesspileofflesh wrote:
MorbidEngel wrote:
There's a fair amount of stuff that I listen to that's stained by people involved:
Burzum
Dissection
Gorgoroth
Emperor (and anything that Faust was involved in)
Darkthrone's Transylvanian Hunger (since Varg wrote some lyrics)
Inquisition (though I've listened to them far less since that last scandal)
Gloryhammer/Alestorm
Pantera
Mayhem
Thorns
Drudkh
Sword of Darkness (obscure Vietnamese symphonic black metal band, once they broke up one of the guys started Vothana)
Michael Jackson
Iced Earth
Judas Priest (Dave Holland material)
Young and in the Way
Horna (stuff before Werewolf left the band)
Pretty much any 80's glam band that didn't check if their groupies were underage or not

I really, really hate to admit that the last Nokturnal Mortum, Drowning the Light and Satanic Warmaster albums were actually enjoyable, because all three bands involve dishonest pieces of shit about "oh we're not nazis"

The only two I can outright remember that actions of a band member actively turned me away from the band are:
Carpe Noctem
Goatlord

Not metal but I recently learned what Randy Scott (founder of Art Data Interactive and the main guy behind the surprisingly good soundtrack (and the only good thing about)) Doom on the 3DO did. That felt like Inquisition all over again.



Gotta ask, what did Alestorm do?


A group chat from Gloryhammer, of which one of the Alestorm guys is also a member (I think the vocalist), got leaked online and the guys in the band were saying some racist/sexist shit.

EDIT: grammatical errors

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Auselesspileofflesh
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:41 pm
Posts: 684
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:25 pm 
 

Hecatomb867 wrote:
Auselesspileofflesh wrote:
MorbidEngel wrote:
There's a fair amount of stuff that I listen to that's stained by people involved:
Burzum
Dissection
Gorgoroth
Emperor (and anything that Faust was involved in)
Darkthrone's Transylvanian Hunger (since Varg wrote some lyrics)
Inquisition (though I've listened to them far less since that last scandal)
Gloryhammer/Alestorm
Pantera
Mayhem
Thorns
Drudkh
Sword of Darkness (obscure Vietnamese symphonic black metal band, once they broke up one of the guys started Vothana)
Michael Jackson
Iced Earth
Judas Priest (Dave Holland material)
Young and in the Way
Horna (stuff before Werewolf left the band)
Pretty much any 80's glam band that didn't check if their groupies were underage or not

I really, really hate to admit that the last Nokturnal Mortum, Drowning the Light and Satanic Warmaster albums were actually enjoyable, because all three bands involve dishonest pieces of shit about "oh we're not nazis"

The only two I can outright remember that actions of a band member actively turned me away from the band are:
Carpe Noctem
Goatlord

Not metal but I recently learned what Randy Scott (founder of Art Data Interactive and the main guy behind the surprisingly good soundtrack (and the only good thing about)) Doom on the 3DO did. That felt like Inquisition all over again.



Gotta ask, what did Alestorm do?


A group chat from Gloryhammer, of which one of the Alestorm guys is also a member (I think the vocalist), got leaked online and the guys in the band were saying some racist/sexist shit.

EDIT: grammatical errors


Thanks for that. Some people and the internet don't mix. Having the ability to say the first thing that comes to your mind isn't always good especially on sensitive topic. Thought over word.

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Lee Harrison
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
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Location: Italy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:43 am 
 

Satan figure in Gnosticism and romanticism is derived from Prometheus the titan that stole fire from gods to give it to men,both are seen as rebels who do not accept authority.
Easy how they have more appeal than the God of Job.

A gnostic corrent reinterpreted the Luciferian figure in a key salvific and liberating for man, at the same time overturning the image of the Creator God Jahvé, portrayed as a "tyrant".
The serpent described in Genesis would be the one who led man to knowledge and therefore to the elevation of man to divinity, even against the will of the supreme God who would have wanted instead to keep the man as his subject and slave.
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elvenefrisian
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:38 am
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:24 am 
 

Seeing the discussions of nazism in this thread is pretty disheartening. any time nazis come up, it becomes a point of contention here. you'd think it was simple no? And it seems this debate goes in circles every time.

People dismiss them as just harmless weirdos, and I'm not even going to entertain that. But what I can say very resoundingly is that you are sending a message when you let shit like that fly. You are basically accepting that metal scenes should welcome people with abhorrently racist views, so long as you like the music, and this will come at the expense of everyone else. You think black or brown people are gonna wanna hang out where the nazis are gathering? Or trans people, or gay people? Effectively you are just affirming what Hellhammer once said: " "I'll put it this way, we don't like black people here. Black metal is for white people." But maybe that's what you want, you're just not allowed to say it openly here (and at least you got that going here).

You go on the black metal recommendations thread and any given day there's at least a few nazi bands being recommended. The more y'all accept this kind of shit in your community, the more you push out everyone else. Big part of the reason I've decided to delete my account and walk away from this community several times, and why I now very rarely ever check it out anymore.

There is so much metal out there, even black metal, without any of that baggage. So I don't know why people still feel the need to caper for it. And at the very least, most metalheads I know IRL are nothing like this and similarly got no tolerance for this shit. Fascism is unpopular, people don't like it, you look like a freak when you excuse it. Go outside. talk to any normal person and get off your online circlejerk fests around GBK or whatever shitty band you like.

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:56 am 
 

elvenefrisian wrote:
Fascism is unpopular, people don't like it, you look like a freak when you excuse it. Go outside. talk to any normal person and get off your online circlejerk fests around GBK or whatever shitty band you like.


Seeing how the fascists have won a big chunk of the electorate over in Italy and are now forming the governement, the rise of the far-right in France, the state of the Republican party in the USA, and the support that Putin has in Russia for his fascist invasion of Ukraine, I'd argue that a lot of people actually like fascism, they just don't use the word fascism to describe it.

Other then that, I agree with you that we should not accept racism in metal, and we should not be tolerant of it.

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 729
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:18 pm 
 

Required Fields wrote:
metallic_monk wrote:
I recently converted to Christianity, and ditched all extreme metal overnight. Roughly 95% of black metal, 80% of death metal, and 60% of thrash would be incompatible with my beliefs, but I decided it's not worth it to sift through, and ditched it all as a sort of "offering" to God, to exercise restraint from worldly things, and stick to what is true and beautiful (the vocals are the big differentiator here), and so that I could keep listening to non extreme metal, which is still kind of questionable upon closer look tbh. I still struggle with my own hypocrisy and make some exceptions in borderline cases, for instance I still listen to progressive thrash like Voivod and Coroner, but metal is very important in my life and part of who I am.
I do background checks on bands that I discover, and recently I had to drop Pharaoh. I was blown away by The Longest Night, but I just can't listen to stuff where half the members are involved in something like superchrist.


I know of some metalheads who converted to Christianity, and dropped all metal, extreme or non-extreme, as a result. However, with time, they gradually began to start listening to secular metal again after a while.

I know that there are some Christian metal fans who only listen to Christian bands (I don't know if they do this for other genres or not) whose blood boils whenever someone in the Christian metal world even acknowledges a secular metal band (whether it be wearing a shirt of a secular band, covering a secular metal band's songs, etc.). I remember Mortification's lead singer once got figuratively crucified by some of his fans for wearing merch of secular metal bands.

On another metal circle I post at, one guy recently said Immolation was his favorite metal band, but he converted to Christianity, and now he can't bring himself to listen to them, as he finds their largely anti-Christian lyrics to be very off-putting (they do have some songs, particularly on more recent albums, that have lyrics that aren't anti-Christian or anti-religion, but he won't even listen to those). He would like to have a Christian band that sounds just like them, but there doesn't seem to be one.


It's funny, but to me it's like, if your faith (in whatever religion or spiritual belief) is strong, than why would the anti-religious ramblings of some metal band really affect you one way or another? I see them (a band like Immolation) doing what metal bands do: trying to break down and/or question these age-old institutions like "organized" religion, which seems to me a different thing than an individual's very personal beliefs (and which, in turn, may evolve as time goes on). So, their rantings and rumblings (and growls :lol:) don't really affect my own spiritual beliefs, questions, etc. one way or another. And besides, it's good and healthy and natural to have questions in these areas anyhow. Is "blind faith" even "true" faith after all? Not in my experience.

I am, however, talking about religious and existential philosophical beliefs and questions here, which take on their own kind of "abstract" dimension simply because none of us have any real answers to any of these things. An atheist can't disprove the existence of God (whatever you conceive that to be) anymore than a religious person can prove the existence of said entity. So this standard does not apply to subjects with more real-world consequences (e.g. fascist beliefs, racist beliefs, and so on). I'll listen to Immolation simply because they don't affect my own personal beliefs one way or another and, by buying their cd, I'm not contributing to any truly evil cause like racism, sexism, etc. either.
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TorontoSsuuckss
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:57 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:50 pm 
 

Can't think of any. Unless I had personally met them or they lived next door to me and are a pain in the ass, don't think I'd care too much. As long as the music is enjoyable, it's the unfortunate human ability to ignore everything else to get pleasure, just like when consuming stuff that's bad for the environment, causes animal cruelty or potential health problems.

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Necturion
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:43 am
Posts: 4
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:46 am 
 

What about Stormkeep? Are they fascist or not, does any1 know?

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jose_G
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 1:02 pm
Posts: 493
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:11 am 
 

Necturion wrote:
What about Stormkeep? Are they fascist or not, does any1 know?

Really is important? zzzzzzzzzzzzz

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:32 am 
 

Necturion wrote:
What about Stormkeep? Are they fascist or not, does any1 know?


Where did you get the idea that they were fascists?

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Veteran

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 2986
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:35 pm 
 

Necturion wrote:
What about Stormkeep? Are they fascist or not, does any1 know?


There's nothing about them being fascists. Isn't the band mostly made of Wayfarer/Blood Incantation members? Those dudes are very unsketchy.

Glen Benton, not sure if he's been mentioned, on the other hand is an insufferable turd of a person. Word on the grapevine back in the day was he turned down a tour with Suffocation because he didn't want to be around Mike and Terrance. Typical Florida racist BS coming from Glen wouldn't surprise anyone.

And there was the time Broken Hope toured with them in 2013 or so and were kicked off the tour because their fans got their throats slashed ( o_O) but also according to the band;

Quote:
El Paso… first a maniac wielding a box-cutter cuts 3 fans at our concert—one ear-to-ear (thankfully all the victims are going to recover), then we learned that Glen Benton is kicking us off the ‘No Salvation Tour’. It was a helluva night. Since we started this tour, we’ve had to endure Glen Benton’s constant bitching and ultimatums. He was always trying to snip our balls and demanded that we couldn’t use our fog machines and on some nights, we couldn’t use our backdrops or other production elements because he had issues with all of it. With respect to the headliner, we abided. Moreover, in efforts of friendship, good tour vibes, and because we’re simply cool fucking guys, we let Glen Benton and his band use OUR BACKLINE because they didn’t want to bring all their gear on tour!

“Specifically, we let the headliner use our cabinets and Glen Benton used our entire bass rig—head and cabinet—since his own bass head failed him early on. While we were generous with our backline, not once did Benton thank us, offer us a dime, or even lift a finger to help move anything—and he fucked up our bass head numerous times with his resetting the EQ, etc., despite us politely asking him NOT to mess with the bass tone we dialed in. Gee, with all the money and free gear Benton brags about to us daily, you’d think he’d do something about getting his own rig.

“Things got ugly in El Paso when, after we learned Benton had lost our bass rig cables and once again fucked with our bass head, so, we put our foot down and told him he couldn’t use the head anymore. Note: we still allowed Benton to use our cabinets for their show.

“That said, Benton threw an EPIC hissy-fit and immediately kicked us off the tour! He booted Broken Hope from the tour simply because we refused to let him use our bass head! What bullshit. Now, even though that lame reason is what Benton used to get rid of us, I believe there’s more to the story here. During this entire tour Benton has given BH and our crew nothing but a shitty attitude and has tried to sabotage our production every day for no good reason. Though Benton blocked us from using our fog machines, he couldn’t stop us from using our professional soundman, nor stop us from giving concertgoers an amazing and high-powered show. The fact remains—as all our show attendees have seen—we fucking handed Glen Benton his ass every night of the tour and he couldn’t keep up. Benton and his caravan of mini-van drivers couldn’t touch our live show—even on our worst night.

Benton sent Shaun Glass a text last night, threatening to break his jaw if Shaun badmouthed Benton. Well, I’m calling Benton out right now because his bullshit is old, fake, and he ain’t scaring anyone. Glen Benton is a lazy, jealous, jaded, ungrateful, unprofessional, egomaniacal bully. He menaces everyone from bands and fans, to promoters and booking agents. How he maintains a career is beyond me. And this time, he fucked with the wrong band. Karma is a bitch, Benton.


Hard to listen to Deicide without thinking what a colossal dipshit Glen is (sorta like MegaDave). Then again, it feels like millennia since Deicide released anything I personally cared for.
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