It's truly so easy to not listen to or support bands with shitty people in them, and there are plenty of bands to listen to that don't have shitty people in them. I've stopped listening to tons of artists over the years (metal and non-metal) because of the people in them doing/saying terrible things. Maybe there are some who can 'separate art from artists' but I simply prefer not to associate or support said shitty bands.

Gonna throw a couple more names out:
Grand Belial's Key
Arghoslent

Both I hear so much good about, but the people involved are abhorrently racist/anti-Semitic. A shame, because neither band seems to have their style done by less shitty people (though Mi'Gauss is apparently similar enough to Arghoslent somehow); House of Atreus is also sketchy and I've not heard the best things about the people in Grenadier, despite finding out after enjoying the album.

These bands should not only not be listened to because of the shitty people their member are, but because their music is mediocre at best.

Come on, do you really believe that?

Didn't realize there was a German band called 'Carpe Noctem'. I assumed it was the Icelandic one, hence my confusion.

I'm well aware that my standards don't make sense here and even I don't understand them.

I'm very aware that the people behind those bands are shit, and yet I'll listen. Granted for NM I won't touch anything before The Voice of Steel and SW I won't touch the first two albums.

Musicians are mostly dipshit savants, so getting too tangled up in the individual identities of artists is a waste of time imo.

Besides, I tend to believe people pull from a primordial pool of energy, so to speak, during the creative process. Muhammad was just the messenger ect, it ultimately comes from God.



I love the fuck out of this interview, I quote it all the time (and to Impurath's credit, he does seem to be a little tongue in cheek here)

Some of these things just come from a gut feeling. It can't always be explained. I also think that if you got into a band before you found out that some of the musicians involved were dicks, or if they only did shitty things after you got into their music, you might keep listening to the albums you already liked, because you connected with them. I kind of tend to be like that with some albums. Like I still revisit the Mgla records I bought years ago, but I can't seem to want to listen to any of their newer material because the musicians feel a little too sketchy for my taste. That's also kind of how I am with Peste Noire and La sanie des siècles. It's an incredible black metal record, but Famine is a grade A piece of shit. I would never attend a KPN show or buy any of their merch, but I still spin this album from time to time. Yet, I have no kind of interest in keeping up with any of their newer material.

^ what I *really* want to know is what's the appeal in listening to a bunch of French hicks essentially play a form of blackened polka?

Inquisition for me. I loved them before I found out about him being a pedophile. Now I just can't stand them.

Anything else is fair game for me. If I like the music, I'll buy it.

Wow, so what you're saying basically is that you have no problems with nazi shit, yet for you an alleged pedophile is a big no-no.
Strange set of values...

That set of values will always vary with the person.

I don't listen to Nazi bands and I'd like to have pedophiles' balls cut off as soon as proven guilty (of course the music is a NO-GO too) but I don't seem to get too agitated when it comes to "classic murder" or revenge acts, etc....there really is a lot of gut feeling to it - I can't stand Jari Mäenpää one bit and have stopped listening to even the good older Wintersun material entirely because I always see his con-man Gollum-smile behind every note being played.

Nazis are more easily rationalised as harmless dipshits with asshole words but not much else to back it up. I'm not overly worried about the Nazis rising up and putting me in a camp, dudes fuckin kids is a bit more immediate and actively occuring. Not that racists and Nazis don't get uppity and murder people from time to time, but it's not so inherently more than a dispshit larp. Most of the time it's just being a stupid fuckwits saying stupid bullshit, kinda hard to Pedro up without directly taking involvement in heinous shit. Craig Pillard probably isn't gonna start lynching black people, dagon definitely was actively involved in the spread and consumption of child abuse.

That's probably the best way of putting it, in my case?

Akhlys is in the Disma category of "I'll spin the shit I've got but won't fuck with anything new". Kyle is sus as fuck and doesn't even try to hide it (sampling Julius fucking Evola with Nightbringer said it all), but Akhlys bumps and I bought The Dreaming I and Melinoe in good faith before I really knew, just like how I bought Towards the Megalith when I still had reason to believe Craig had reformed.

I’ve said this before and it still rings true; not metal, but Smashing Pumpkins. I can’t look at them the same way since I found out Billy Corgan is an InfoWars/Alex Jones guy. My view of them is completely tainted.

It certainly doesn’t help that most of the post-2007 reformation material is utterly forgettable.

A shame, I used to hold Mellon Collie as the greatest album from the 90s and a serious contender for the greatest album of all time. In the informal 90s poll done in the Tavern last year, I very cautiously rated this album at 5, purely for nostalgia reasons, where 15 years ago it would have been 1 without discussion or hesitation.

I wasn't even surprised about Billy, dude's always been a complete asshole who alienates and/or fucks over everyone he's worked with and has to buy his friends and bandmates because no one can stand him. Exene Cervenka and Mina Caputo too, both have gone way down the conspiracy rabbit hole and believe some really dumb shit, but the irony of Mina reposting shit from people who will never accept her as a woman amuses me.

Ha, Nightbringer was/is one of my all time black metal favourites, bought everything from them having no clue the frontman has dubious ties to nazi sympathisers.
I adore their music, and own every physical release by them. I wish I did not know about that douchebag. Ah, ignorance is bliss.

What I'm saying is pedos are a hard fucking no.
As for the NS bands, they are on a case by case basis and based strictly on the music. Not lyrics and not members. If I like the music I will listen, and quite frankly there are a few I like. I dislike politics in general which is why i base it solely on the quality of the music.

I have no idea what infowars is. But I also consider Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness one of the best albums ever made.

Something I always keep in mind is this: some people weren't always assholes.
Mustaine was a bit odd in the eighties but mostly drunk I didn't think of him as an asshole in the previous century really.
And the fact that he is now as asshole, does nothing to devalue my enjoyment of the first 3 Megadeth albums when he was still an angry drunk kid.

I can more than tolerate the original Pumpkins before their split-up in 2000. Corgan's always been a dick but at least he wasn't down a shitty rabbit hole back then. At least I think so...

Sry but nazism is worse than pedophile

Nazism is the worst crime simply because never in human life one is suppressed scientifically because Jew,homosexual,not healthy,slavic (Hitler wanted to slay all the Russians after the Jews)etc

And the the thing that should make us think the most was the consensus it had among population(we forget often this)

I rest my case.

Quoted for truth. They are both abhorrent, yet only a moron would dismiss anything NS (because the music is good haha) yet boycott anything pedophilia related.

Yeah people who swear off Inquisition but will still listen to Satanic Warmaster and Grand Belial's Key are absolute dorks. If you're gonna give literal neo nazis a pass then don't try to pretend you have a properly functioning moral compass by taking a stand against Inquisition. You're full of shit and you know it.

Are you people insane?

Or are you just trying to be edgy and win internet points?

I'm not particularly threatened in any way by Nazis, I simply pity them as pathetic and worthless human beings. Pedos, on the other hand, as someone else so kindly pointed out, are far more worrying and actively predatory and downright despicable.

And, frankly, I don't listen to NSBM, either. Never have, I'd rather not listen to any of the aforementioned artists

Absolutely ludicrous debate, but downplaying Nazis as just pathetic losers isn't really accurate anymore. The current dangerous fascists aren't all literally Hitler Youth or whatever but it's the same kind of danger. Nobody supports pedophiles at all so it's just a dumb comparison altogether. Saying you draw the line there is fine but it's hardly even a statement.

the overwhelming majority of them are, though. Hell, a lot of people in general are all bark and no bite. This isn't unique to this particular set of radical ideologues

Yeah but there are plenty of new violent right wingers that should be seriously opposed. When I talk about being against "Nazis" I'm not being overly specific. No reason to categorize these fucks. To me there's no difference between the NSBM cretins and the mass shooters gunning down school kids or whoever else in the US in all those stories - all the same stripe to me really.

Seems like the world's most pointless argument. Both are shite, for different reasons, and both need different approaches to sorting the issue out.

Was only my opinion,in fact I don’t quote you because isn’t vs you.

Right. And it is one of the "weirder" debates I've seen, in terms of the specifics. But it's not without philosophical interest, as well as theological, if applicable (hierarchies of sins and whatnot).

It connects to the questions: What are the worst conceivable harms or wrongs that can be inflicted on a person - and in connection with that, who are (or would be) the worst wrongdoers? The question assumes that there can be such a thing as an ordered ranking of harms or wrongful acts, and most people seem to accept that as a matter of common sense. Most people also seem to think (at least on the level of sheer self-interest) that there are worse things than death; I imagine some of those people would view it as a logical consequence that murdering someone might be less wrong than inflicting certain traumas or severely disabling bodily-psychic damage. Also, many people seem to "measure" wrongness in proportion to the status of the victim; judging by the usual cultural-emotional responses, they'd find it less wrong to murder a 95-year-old than a 15-year-old, and similarly for victims' differences in social-economic position. (Say, murdering a philanthropic cancer doctor versus murdering someone who's imprisoned for violent crime.)

Other questions have to do with the possibility of wrongdoers redeeming themselves, at least partially, or even becoming deserving of forgiveness. Wrongdoers who accept the fittingness of their punishment, express sincere moral remorse, make serious efforts to reform themselves or suppress their problematic impulses, and/or who can be seen as partially lacking responsibility for their offenses (say due to corrupting psychological influences), might seem deserving of a lesser amount of condemnation.

Anyway, differing viewpoints on these complicated and challenging issues could inform a person's conclusion that it's less wrong (or more wrong, or equally wrong) to be a Nazi than to sexually abuse children. It isn't necessarily the case IMO that one of these conclusions would be patently, straightforwardly correct while the others would be absurd and reprehensible.

Sorry, again, that this is all way tangential to the OP!

That sounds like billy Corgans ridiculous defense mechanism against being the biggest softie in history for fucking years, I didn't even know he went that way, that's fucking hilarious

I doubt we find a good guy in black metal…

Homo homini lupus

And the evil have more fascination than the good

Austin Lunn from Panopticon, the guys of Enslaved, Wolves in the Throne Room and Stormkeep all strike me as being good guys.

That's beside the point anyway. Nobody said that the musicians have to be Mother Teresa. You guys are making this about something it doesn't need to be about. I don't need the guys in my favorite bands to be people I would want to be best friends with. I just don't want them to be pieces of shit.

^Plus the guy from Katharsis. (I don't think I'd heard this until I saw Gravetemplar mention it.)

I understand it was just a melancholy gloss

This kinda shit makes me want to check that band out. I feel like while it's not a sure thing, this kind of social consciousness can often mean they're making good art too.

Let's not forget the most offensive thing Billy Corgan has done: Thinking he can play modular synthesizers.

(This isn't a riff on modular synthesizers or synth drone as I love both, he just sucks at them.)

There's something funny to me in a radical traditionalist guy being a notable figure in the Dada movement.






Find this a tad amusing, considering one of those guys has what appears to be a Hitler Youth knife tucked in his bullet belt.