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Helvede
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1674
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 8:43 am 
 

From Paradise Lost's twitter:

"Icon, our fourth album was released in 1993 and for it’s 30th anniversary, we’re re-recording it and doing an extra special vinyl release. "

I wonder why they'd think that to be necsessary. It had a perfect, cold atmosphere, fitting the genre in my opinion. Especially the lead guitar. I guess it could be to do something about the rather simplistic drums, but even them I would say were just perfect for the album.

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entzauberung
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:49 am
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:09 am 
 

One of their best albums for sure. I'm usually not into rerecordings...but PL's sound can be pretty different nowadays (especially Holmes vocals), so they may come up with something interesting at least.

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BillyR
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:20 am
Posts: 166
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:22 am 
 

Their best moment, absolutely no need to re-record it other than they have long run out of ideas.

They sabotaged their own career back with One second and never recovered from it. This just sounds like desperation now.


Last edited by BillyR on Mon May 22, 2023 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:35 am 
 

This was such a unique album; would be better just to get another full new album instead. Can't see a rerecording being vital at all.
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kovner1972
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:38 am 
 

Why? Unless the band want it to be available again to those who have not obtained an original copy yet.

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Xymosys
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Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:19 am
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Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:47 am 
 

blah...really, no use for that, album is as perfect as it gets!
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Benedict Donald
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 9:48 am 
 

Easily my favorite of theirs. I'll give this a listen but dont see how it can beat the original.

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colin040
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 10:14 am 
 

What a stupid idea. Nick's out of tune and scarred voice worked perfect for that stuff.

They're better off focusing on the album that they started to write.

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kovner1972
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 10:47 am 
 

Wait, re-recording means recording it again from scratch? What's the point? What was wrong with the original recording? I thought it would be re-issued in a special edition and all. My bad.

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FirebathDan
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:11 am 
 

We are gonna see a lot more of this going forward, I’d be willing to bet.

I would guess this has something to do with label/publishing/licensing issues. PL probably wants to do a 30th anniversary reissue of the original album but hit a roadblock with the publishing or licensing rights. They might own the rights to the songs themselves but not the publishing of the original recordings. Ergo, they re-record a new version to circumvent.

See also: Switchfoot or Swift, Taylor.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:28 am 
 

I've never heard a rerecording that I preferred over the original. I can see why bands do it, but there's never any long-term benefits to doing this at all. Exodus, Flots, Manowar, Girlschool all blew this. You're much better off putting out a live record covering the album. I don't know why more bands don't get it.
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kovner1972
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:44 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
I've never heard a rerecording that I preferred over the original. I can see why bands do it, but there's never any long-term benefits to doing this at all. Exodus, Flots, Manowar, Girlschool all blew this. You're much better off putting out a live record covering the album. I don't know why more bands don't get it.


Except for maybe Deicide re-recording the Amon demo for their debut album. Although it is not better than the demo, it is at least on par.

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colin040
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:50 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
I've never heard a rerecording that I preferred over the original. I can see why bands do it, but there's never any long-term benefits to doing this at all. Exodus, Flots, Manowar, Girlschool all blew this. You're much better off putting out a live record covering the album. I don't know why more bands don't get it.


Katatonia's re-recording of that '92 rehearsal sounds fantastic and Saber Tiger, a Japanese prog/power metal band, have superior re-recordings...but otherwise, yeah, what's the point?

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kovner1972
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:52 am 
 

colin040 wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
I've never heard a rerecording that I preferred over the original. I can see why bands do it, but there's never any long-term benefits to doing this at all. Exodus, Flots, Manowar, Girlschool all blew this. You're much better off putting out a live record covering the album. I don't know why more bands don't get it.


Katatonia's re-recording of that '92 rehearsal sounds fantastic and Saber Tiger, a Japanese prog/power metal band, have superior re-recordings...but otherwise, yeah, what's the point?


What Katatonia re-recording? Jehova Elohim Meth?

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colin040
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 12:12 pm 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
colin040 wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
I've never heard a rerecording that I preferred over the original. I can see why bands do it, but there's never any long-term benefits to doing this at all. Exodus, Flots, Manowar, Girlschool all blew this. You're much better off putting out a live record covering the album. I don't know why more bands don't get it.


Katatonia's re-recording of that '92 rehearsal sounds fantastic and Saber Tiger, a Japanese prog/power metal band, have superior re-recordings...but otherwise, yeah, what's the point?


What Katatonia re-recording? Jehova Elohim Meth?


No, it's the one that got released after.

Original:


Re-recording;

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CoffeeCat
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:09 am
Posts: 337
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 1:00 pm 
 

.
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Last edited by CoffeeCat on Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BillyR
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:20 am
Posts: 166
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 2:18 pm 
 

CoffeeCat wrote:
Oh come on. They've been on an absolute roll since at least Faith Unites Us.


Not for me.

They where on a serious roll around the times of Icon and Draconian times, selling more and more each time they refined their sound, and playing to bigger and bigger crowds... Then they dropped a absolute clanger and floundered around for a few years before trying to rewind back to where they had been before Gregor had purchased a keyboard and derailed the train.

For me personally they just sound tired and bored now.

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 2:24 pm 
 

Meh, there is no point in rerecording entire albums. I've yet to hear a single rerecording that's actually worth it.

One song, maybe, as some kind of bonus, something to mark the 30th anniversary. But not a full album.

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 2:46 pm 
 

icon might be my least favorite album of their classic run but I’m not sure why it needs to be redone, especially when their recent work has been pretty great.
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Evoken
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:02 am
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 4:44 pm 
 

I find this re-recording kind of strange since I've never heard anybody complain about Icon's production or the song performances. So I tend to agree with the person who posted that this re-recording is most likely an effort by the band to regain publishing rights to these songs again.

When they first announced yesterday on Facebook that something was in the works with Icon, I assumed some long over-due special edition with the inclusion of all the bonus demo recordings from that era. A few have been released back in the 90s: "Shallow Seasons" and "Joys of the Emptiness" on a promotional cassette in 1993 before the album came out, and "Weeping Words" found on the original box set edition of Draconian Times from 1995. None of these have ever been reissued past these initial limited releases unfortunately, so I was really looking forward to a deluxe reissue of Icon to see what other demo rarities would be unearthed. My guess is that's not happening now, or it's at least unlikely.

Another curiosity I have... will the band also re-record "Sweetness"? It's technically not on Icon, but was the only studio B-side they released for the album and it's one of their best songs from that era.

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mynameishere
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:36 am
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:06 am 
 

They re-recorded the song 'True Belief' in 1997, but that was different when Nick still sounded great.


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Dungeon_Vic
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:24 am 
 

Their best album and absolutely fine as it is. I am pretty sure it is the publishing rights they are after, as already mentioned. Same deal as Flotsam and Jetsam and Testament.

I predict it's going to be rather shit.
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LycanthropeMoon
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 2296
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:51 am 
 

99% of the time, when a band re-records a full album, it comes out sounding incredibly awkward. See: last year's re-recording of "Comalies" by Lacuna Coil. Oh, and in 2020, In Flames may not have re-recorded all of "Clayman", but they did re-do four songs and the results were godawful.

I've liked the last few Paradise Lost albums quite a bit. I'd prefer some new material.

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AxeCapitol
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:38 pm
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Location: NYC
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 5:19 pm 
 

I remember reading that the band was unhappy with Matt Archer’s drumming on the album, so that’s possibly why they want to do an updated version? Just speculation. It really is pointless. Brilliant alum. As much as I love DT, Icon was the superior version of that period of PLs style.

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Dullahan
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:17 pm
Posts: 193
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:21 pm 
 

I'm cautiously optimistic, to be honest. Nowadays they have a much better drummer than Tuds, and Nick Holmes can sing in tune. Last but not least, Paradise Lost doesn't seem like the type of band that's going to pull an In Flames and re-record the thing with a limp, toothless modern production job. Call it naiveté or wishful thinking, but they know better than to shit on their own legacy.

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mynameishere
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:36 am
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 5:57 am 
 

AxeCapitol wrote:
I remember reading that the band was unhappy with Matt Archer’s drumming on the album, so that’s possibly why they want to do an updated version?.


That's not true, you can find many interviews and none of them talk about that other than the reason he left the band:

"The first drummer left because the gigs were getting bigger and he wasn't handling the pressure too well"

" if we haven't lost the first drummer, he would probably still be in the band"

https://www.therockpit.net/2017/intervi ... dise-lost/


What is known is that Matt Archer left because he didn't want to practice, or tour anymore and lost interest.

They were unhappy with Matt because he wasn't at the level of Lee Morris for example who was musically better.

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mirons
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Latvia
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 8:08 am 
 

Dullahan wrote:
I'm cautiously optimistic, to be honest. Nowadays they have a much better drummer than Tuds, and Nick Holmes can sing in tune. Last but not least, Paradise Lost doesn't seem like the type of band that's going to pull an In Flames and re-record the thing with a limp, toothless modern production job. Call it naiveté or wishful thinking, but they know better than to shit on their own legacy.


See, that's exactly the problem (the highlighted part of the quote); perhaps the most serious one at that. Given that Holmes can sing in tune now, and has been doing that for 25+ years, he won't be able to recapture those mostly off-key, half yelled vocals which are a big part of what makes that album so special. And it's not a "maybe", it has already been showcased by their live performances for all this period. I like his clean singing fine, and it fits the songs they are doing now, but as I see it, it will ruin the old songs.

But if that's what they need in order to gain the rights, then let them do it.

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colin040
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 11:06 am 
 

Live Nick remains a wild card though. Listen to any live version of No Hope in Sight and there's a chance Nick ruins it: sometimes together with Greg during his lead parts :lol:

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Dullahan
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:17 pm
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 1:19 pm 
 

mirons wrote:
See, that's exactly the problem (the highlighted part of the quote); perhaps the most serious one at that. Given that Holmes can sing in tune now, and has been doing that for 25+ years, he won't be able to recapture those mostly off-key, half yelled vocals which are a big part of what makes that album so special. And it's not a "maybe", it has already been showcased by their live performances for all this period. I like his clean singing fine, and it fits the songs they are doing now, but as I see it, it will ruin the old songs.

But if that's what they need in order to gain the rights, then let them do it.


To each their own opinion. I've come back to Icon more times than I can count, and his vocals always stand out as the worst part of that record. No offence meant to Nick, though. In their biography, you'll read that this was a period of adaptation and experimentation for them, and I won't shit on the guy's head for trying new things, but it just doesn't click for me because off-key singing drives me nuts. Either straight-up growl or sing in tune, otherwise gtfo. That re-recorded version of True Belief is, to my ears, so superior to the original that it's not even funny.

But I'll give your argument the benefit of the doubt because we know how much Nick's voice has changed throughout the years since they returned to playing metal. His upper range has diminished and his timbre sounds more nasal. Time will tell if this will translate well in the new recording.

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colin040
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 1:52 pm 
 

With studio magic I'm sure they'll manage to alter Holmes' voice to a certain degree. I'm sure they'll know that fans aren't waiting for a total distortion-free vocal version of the record.

That said, it's interesting to hear how Nick's attempt at distortion sounds different here compared to the Faith / Tragic Idol attempts.


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Dullahan
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:17 pm
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 5:30 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
With studio magic I'm sure they'll manage to alter Holmes' voice to a certain degree. I'm sure they'll know that fans aren't waiting for a total distortion-free vocal version of the record.

That said, it's interesting to hear how Nick's attempt at distortion sounds different here compared to the Faith / Tragic Idol attempts.



That was lovely, by the way. Nick sounds superb. The only vocal part that seems unsustainable (at least during a long tour) is the last "Oh God damn it!" near the end. Maybe he's willing to go a little rawer when dealing with one-off performances such as this.

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AxeCapitol
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 7:56 pm 
 

mynameishere wrote:
AxeCapitol wrote:
I remember reading that the band was unhappy with Matt Archer’s drumming on the album, so that’s possibly why they want to do an updated version?.


That's not true, you can find many interviews and none of them talk about that other than the reason he left the band:

"The first drummer left because the gigs were getting bigger and he wasn't handling the pressure too well"

" if we haven't lost the first drummer, he would probably still be in the band"

https://www.therockpit.net/2017/intervi ... dise-lost/


What is known is that Matt Archer left because he didn't want to practice, or tour anymore and lost interest.

They were unhappy with Matt because he wasn't at the level of Lee Morris for example who was musically better.


That’s exactly what I said. Lol. Idiot.

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mynameishere
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:36 am
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 11:20 pm 
 

AxeCapitol wrote:
mynameishere wrote:
AxeCapitol wrote:
I remember reading that the band was unhappy with Matt Archer’s drumming on the album, so that’s possibly why they want to do an updated version?.


That's not true, you can find many interviews and none of them talk about that other than the reason he left the band:

"The first drummer left because the gigs were getting bigger and he wasn't handling the pressure too well"

" if we haven't lost the first drummer, he would probably still be in the band"

https://www.therockpit.net/2017/intervi ... dise-lost/


What is known is that Matt Archer left because he didn't want to practice, or tour anymore and lost interest.

They were unhappy with Matt because he wasn't at the level of Lee Morris for example who was musically better.


That’s exactly what I said. Lol. Idiot.


No, you tried to say more like the band was unhappy with what Matt recorded on Icon which was what the topic is about. Nice try, little troll.

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Xymosys
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:19 am
Posts: 1253
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:16 am 
 

British gothic metal pioneers PARADISE LOST will celebrate the 30th anniversary of their fourth album, “Icon”, by embarking on the “Embers Of Europe” tour in the fall. Support on the trek will come from MY DYING BRIDE.

So far the following shows have been announced:

Dec. 01 – Shepherds Bush Empire – London, UK
Dec. 14 – St George’s Hall – Bradford, UK


PARADISE LOST singer Nick Holmes says: “Our specific record deal around the time we signed for the ‘Icon’ album meant we would never actually own the rights to our music or artwork, so going forward, to reissue the album ourselves for the 30th anniversary, it was necessary to re-record and completely re-do the album cover.

“Re-recording ‘Icon’ has not only enabled us to release it as a series of collectors editions on vinyl but it was also great to revisit some songs from a lifetime ago. Nothing can replace those original recordings or ever will, they are a nostalgic part of all our lives but it has been a lot of fun revisiting those early MFN days once again, and I hope the end result displays that!”
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jose_G
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Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 1:02 pm
Posts: 487
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:14 pm 
 

mmmmmmmmm

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Lane
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:54 am
Posts: 1098
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:11 pm 
 

That's an English "tour". I guess more dates will be added. Hopefully Finnish, too. Saw the band early this year. A small show in Jyväskylä.

'Icon' has grown to my dearest PL album. I do not care about 4-eyed Jesus on the cover, but fuckin' 'ell, touching it music-wise is an anathema from me.
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morbert
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:46 am 
 

The thing is, together with the debut, it is my favorite PL album.
So for me it is pretty much perfect.

I'll give it a listen, online, obviously. But I'm afraid it will give me this vibe:
Image
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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:27 pm 
 

Only good outcome is literally a demo album akin to dusk and her embrace of the entire album that might be sick but I genuinely love the icon album it's literally so top teir it ascends into one of the greatest rock albums in general it's just a definitive album few too people know about
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Rosner
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:12 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:12 pm 
 

Quote:
Image
To celebrate the album’s 30th anniversary, gothic metal legends Paradise Lost recently announced the release of a vinyl re-recording of their 1993 masterpiece “Icon”.

Released on the December 1st, 2023, on double vinyl, the now titled “Icon 30” has been totally re-recorded by the band with them once again working with long time collaborator and producer Jaime Gomez Arellano.

The band re-recorded the vocals and drums for “Icon 30” at his new studio Arda Recorders in Porto, Portugal. The rest of the album was completed at Greg Mackintosh’s Black Planet Studios.

Today the band have shared the brand new artwork for “Icon 30” which was created by Scott Robinson, who comments:

“It was important for the band to continue the theme from the original ‘Icon’ and when they found this image of a monument to Jesus Christ from Lychakiv Cemetery, Lviv, it was clear it was the one for the cover. The statue takes on an extra resonance knowing that it was from Ukraine. I wanted to reference original Icon colours and decided that this gold and blood red were a powerful combination to make a bold cover with impact”.

“Icon 30” also includes new liner notes from Kerrang’s Nick Ruskell.

Nick Holmes previously explained why the album was re-recorded and features new artwork:

“Our specific record deal around the time we signed for the Icon album meant we would never actually own the rights to our music or artwork, so going forward, to reissue the album ourselves for the 30th anniversary, it was necessary to re-record and completely re-do the album cover”.


Source: https://grande-rock.com/news/paradise-lost-reveal-new-artwork-for-icon-30-vinyl-release/

Really like the new cover, but I'm not really sure about what to expect. Nick's "Hetfield" vocals are pretty bad nowadays, and Obsidian doesn't feature them. Will they go for some new sound? Death growls and/or clean singing instead of those rasp vocals? Also, not really sold on Jaime's production on the last few albums. Hope this doesn't have that analogue stoner sound of Medusa.

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praey
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:31 pm 
 

I really wish we would have just gotten a vinyl reissue of the original. I would have bought that in a heartbeat. Too bad about the rights issue. I'll be curious to hear how this one turns out, but I can't recall ever hearing a re-recording that I preferred over the original. At least the artwork is pretty cool.

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