I figure I'm setting myself up for a serious ball busting for this one, but what the heck.

Some goofy lyrics aside, I think this band doesn't get credit for its harder side with prog elements, and I can see early traces of USPM here. It's still a few steps to Riot level, and a long way from Mr. Roboto to The Black Halo, but I can't help but feel there were earlier traces of power metal with them. What do you think?

Ultimately I don't think they really influenced any power metal bands (or at least not significantly), but they do have certain triumphant qualities that can appeal to power metal fans. With the keyboards and soaring tenor vocals there's a bit of that feel, and I do see how a song like Blue Collar Man could be a fun cover choice for such a band (or maybe I'm OK as well).

FWIW, there are some pretty hard hitting songs in Styx's catalog that are often overlooked too, like Man of Miracles could almost be a Sabbath or Deep Purple song.

I know some power metal fans who go pretty hard for Styx, they’re one of my guitarist’s personal favorites. I think they have a certain tightness to their structures along with a hook-oriented approach that works with their fantastical excursions. Castle Walls in particular feels like a proto-power metal song and sure enough, Ironflame apparently covered it as a physical only bonus track on one of their albums.

I LOVE STYX!!

I've never read of anyone saying they were influenced by them, but it's sure as hell possible, they sold MASSIVE amounts of records, before their breakup after KILLROY.

"Would you consider 70s rock band Styx a precursor to power metal?"

No.
Because power metal was an amalgamation of many things/details.
Styx made have used some elements which were used later on in power metal but so did Queen, Wishbone Ash and Judas Priest

So nice to see you mention Man of Miracles, that whole album is pretty magnificent. It also features the bands greatest love song in Golden Lark/A Song For Suzanne.

The Wooden Nickel era (Styx 1 & 2, Serpent Is Rising & Man of Miracles) is so vastly underrated. It is a shame most people only know of Styx as a wimpy ballad driven band when there are some pretty damn mighty metallic songs prior to the Cornerstone album in 1979. Songs that I could see being highly influential on metal bands, including power metal.

Styx 1

1. Quick Is the Beat of My Heart
2. After You Leave Me

Styx 2

1. Father O.S.A.
2. Earl of Roseland

Serpent Is Rising

1. Witch Wolf
2. The Grove of Eglantine
3. Young Man
4. The Serpent Is Rising

Man Of Miracles

1. Rock & Roll Feeling
2. Man Of Miracles

Equinox

1. Prelude 12 / Suite Madame Blue

The Grand Illusion

1. The Grand Illusion
2. Miss America
3. Castle Walls

Miss America, between its synthesizer intro, pounding groove, ripping guitar solo and operatic vocals during the refrain, it could easily be covered by a metal band without sounding out of place. Castle Walls is not only an absolutely brilliant prog-rock song but there is NO WAY John Carpenter was unaware of the album (and this song by extension) in 1977. For reference the Grand Illusion is the bands best selling album and was released 7/7/77 and Castle Walls was a b-side single. So why do I think John Carpenter was aware of this song? This songs interlude from 2:20 - 3:50 is a clear influence on a certain horror movie theme that would come out the following year

I don't know why power metal fans are so obsessed with everything being power metal. One don't see that with other metal subgenre fans. They would listen to Beethoven ou 1920's blues and claim it's power metal...
It seems they don't understand power metal is an amalgamation of many things as you've rightly said, otherwise it just would be classic heavy metal. Could it be the reason why they're so obsessed with it is that power metal doesn't really differ from traditional heavy metal and they're trying hard to find some legitimacy?

I guess it’s partly due to envy. We have the mainstream making questionable statements like “Queen invented thrash metal” or “the Beatles invented doom metal” or “the Who invented death growls,” so pm fans also want to cash in the fun for their genre being recognized. Of course, this lies more in the fault of mainstream media than the fans from the respective subgenres.

There is also the case that pioneering or influential metal bands of other subgenres are included in said genre. For example, Black Sabbath is considered doom metal, and Mercyful Fate and Venom are considered “first wave black metal,” but Iron Maiden and Judas Priest aren’t widely associated, despite both bands being somewhat influential to almost every power metal band in existence? Then again, you can count USPM in a way as “first wave power metal.”

And lastly, many fans of Euro-Japanese power metal tend to be less “metalhead” and more like people who are more associated with gaming or anime, so they don’t have the same mindset that most other metalheads would have.

They may have not been a direct influence to power metal bands, but they had an influence/impact on progressive rock, and hell it's quite obvious that songs like Renegade had an impact on heavy metal, and power metal comes straight from heavy metal.

Also, I don't mind the cheesyness of Styx. It's good cheese, you know. It's a little too much, but they were not the only ones doing that kind of stuff. Just think of bands like Kansas. We tend to give these guys a pass, but damn, did they out-cheese a lot of bands at the time.

And yeah, bands like Kansas and Styx were influential and had an impact on prog rock and hard rock. These both had impacts on heavy metal and power metal, but also on prog metal, which is often times a close neighboor to power metal... think bands like Symphony X, Labyrinth, Queensrÿche, Angra, etc. I find it hard to believe that Styx didn't, to an extent, influence the evolution of metal subgenres like prog, power and heavy metal.

I don't think power metal fans make those claims for fun like you're saying, it sounds like they are dead serious about this. I'm pretty sure some of you think power metal is the essence of all heavy metal, so feel like hearing it everywhere.

Also, I don't think that the mainstream medias make those stupid statements like "Pink Floyd invented symphonic black metal". It comes from the metal community, cause the mainstream medias don't care about metal, and even less about looking for supposed origins of extreme in the 60's... Those statements belong to a general trend that want to see proto-things everywhere, even if it sometimes defy good sense.

If Judas Priest and Iron Maiden are power metal for some of you, then could you tell me what is pure heavy metal?? It confirms what I've just said: you power metal fans think power metal is the essence of all metal, because you just don't want to accept power metal is just... heavy metal.

I don't agree with USPM being "first wave power metal". Firstly, I'm not very fond of this "first wave black metal" tag which has almost no musical unity and is musically too different from 90's black metal. But at least, the so-called second wave bands claim the influence of the so-called first wave of black metal. On the contrary, I don't think the so-called USPM bands influenced that much the so-called EUPM bands, but I may be wrong.

I do agree with your last statement about newer power metal fans not being metaheads but mostly gamers and manga fans. They tend to perceive power metal as something disconnected of its history and try to import that geek ontology into the metal community without taking in account metal has solid history and definition, and this very long before their favorite genre even started to be accepted as being something separate from traditional heavy metal... which they seem to ignore. This would explain all the confusions they make about this subgenre.

As others have said, indeed there are traces of what would become Power Metal in their sound. I have never listened to Styx before this thread, although I knew them by name. Will listen to the albums properly, very cool sound!

I think a more direct influence in 80's and 90's Power Metal (euro, mostly) would be Dio era Rainbow, with songs like Kill the King, Tarot Woman and A Light in the Black having pretty much Power Metal style keyboards and speed. Stargazer and The Gates of Babylon have the orchestral arrangements that would become the norm of the genre (again, mostly in EuroPM); you could make a case even for the ballads, with Rainbow Eyes.

I saw Styx once, with Bad Company (I'm not quite that old, this was in 2000 or so). I had listened to a few songs before that, and I enjoyed the show, but despite my affinity for prog rock and all, I never really got into them. I have a few of their albums now and i still can't say I play them much. I think for that kind of half-prog/half pop-rock (or "pomp rock", as I heard someone on Sea of Tranquility youtube channel say recently), I prefer Supertramp, but they don't really go as hard as Styx can sometimes, admittedly. I never thought of them as a direct influence on power metal but certainly a lot of bands from this period with a similar kind of approach might well have influenced particular players and songwriters. Certainly some bands would come to my head first though. Europe Especially. But also Queen of course.

I'd argue Steve Perry from Journey was influential on future power metal singers.

Rainbow's 'Kill The King' meeting JP's 'Exiter' is power metal heaven obviously

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that it's metalheads who are making these claims. The online metal community (excluding power/nu/metalcore fans) is historically known for being elitist and strict on what constitutes "metal." It was mainly magazines like Q and Rolling Stones that called Stone Cold Crazy a thrash song (I'm even sure that they're the ones who made up inconsistent genre labels in the first place). These kinds of outlets like making absurd and exaggerated claims to get attraction, and it was mostly Queen fans and other non-thrash people who started accepting it as such. However, if you go to an online thrash forum, they'll most likely disregard these statements.

I guess I can see your viewpoint on power metal not being so much of a concrete unique style of its own, since many bands borderline with trad, speed/thrash, symphonic, prog, or even arena rock or rock opera. And it's not exactly helping that bands like Sabaton and Beast in Black exist, which makes the whole "speed" element in power metal obsolete over time. So far the most unique aspect of power metal is the prevalence of fantasy themes, which also exists in prog rock or folk, but power metal in particular is known for its abundance.
However, I would not say that power metal hasn't done anything new or different from traditional heavy metal. Prog and symphonic metal came from power metal. Even if most bands aren't too far off from trad or other subgenres, there are core instrument, scene, and imagery elements that bands (not counting USPM here) have in common that you won't find much in other subgenres. It's kind of like how melodeath came from death metal, then started leaning away towards many other subgenres like thrash or power metal, but melodeath by itself is still pretty distinct instrumentally and scene-wise. You could say something similar with trad heavy metal and it not being so far off from hard rock, or how thrash metal is nothing more than heavy metal with more punk/hardcore elements.

My connection with Judas Priest as power metal isn't meant to be taken literally, but more akin to how bands like Venom are accepted as a form of black metal, despite not really being thrash metal. I used USPM as a more accurate example here, and calling it "first wave power metal" is really the most accurate way for me to connect it with power metal, not because I think it's a true form of power metal, but a bunch of early bands with power metal elements. It's not meant to be 100% akin to what is considered "first wave black metal."

I was in a rush when typing all this, so there might be some inaccuracies. I know that the whole power metal posts I bring up can be tiring, but my thoughts change over time, and I'd like to share with as many people as possible. But overall I do agree that power metal fans tend to take the whole "finding elements from other genres" a bit too seriously, and I guess it's a similar case with metalheads in general, especailly when they'll say stuff like "metal is the closest genre to classical," when bands from the 60s and 70s were already having many classical elements in their songs.