I was wondering how people feel about Testament nowadays, taking into account both their early releases and the post-2000 albums.

I think The Legacy and The New Order are both good albums, albeit let down than a less than stellar production job. When we get into the 90’s, there was a definite change in sound. Low was a good album, with maybe more groove and some slight death metal elements in the vocals. I know that people really dislike Demonic, although I think the song Demonic Refusal is a great song. The Gathering was a return to form though.

A couple of their albums did some votes in the recent 80's poll.

Of the post-2000 albums, Dark Roots of the Earth is the one I come back to the most. I feel the songs are more memorable, such as the title track along with songs such as True American Hate and Native Blood. The last couple of albums have been okay, but missing ‘something’ in my opinion.

I have only seen them live once; it was back in the 90’s. Hopefully, I will see them again this year. I remember the live show being pretty solid, although I have seen plenty of better shows. I have heard indifferent things about their live performances in recent years but I can’t really comment on that.

So, how highly do you rate them? Among the best thrash metal acts of all time, or closer to the middle of the pack? What is your favorite line-up of the band?

Nothing ever clicked with me other than The Legacy which I loved. That might have been because it was one of my first metal albums (I owned it on tape and nearly wore the damn thing out) because I gave it another spin recently and it wasn't nearly as good as I remember.

Demo and debut are good.

"The Legacy" is among the greatest Thrash Metal albums ever released.

In the recent 80's poll, The Legacy actually polled the lowest of their 80's albums, although it was really close. I was a bit surprised by that.

Testament is a "Greatest Hits" band for me.

Been a big Testament fan since Trian by Fire was on MTV back in the day. I"ve enjoyed the later albums but don't think they are amazing, though I did get quite a few listens out of Titans. Saw them live recently with Exodus and Death Angel and they were easily the least exciting of the three that night. I'd say most recent Testament shows I"ve seen they have been upstaged by the openers.

Great band and absolutely one of my fav's of the genre. First three are absolute classics.

Testament never really clicked with me other than their first album. They have always suffered from Singles Syndrome, with no album being particularly good, but with scattered great songs. I don't know what it is - alot of their music lacks staying power and umph. I don't want to call it generic, but there's just something that the other thrash bands I enjoy do better that I can't fully describe.

With that said - The Legacy is a spectacular album full of amazing riffs and hooks. Some of the solo'ing and structure around them makes me think of melodeath before melodeath - it just is a unique album for them. The New Order is also not so bad, but already lost something that made The Legacy so great to my ears. People complain about the production, but I think The Legacy's original production was spot on for the music and vibe.

I saw them live last October, which usually ends up giving me a much better opinion of a band's music (as a lot of times, hearing certain songs live, I'll all of a sudden "get it" versus only hearing studio recordings....Converge is my great example of this. Cannot listen to their albums, just totally not my style...but one of the most fun times I've had live and the music really translated to that setting perfectly), but even seeing them live I thought most of the songs were longer than they needed to be and were missing...something. The best I can describe it is that a lot of the music felt like it should have, or was wanting to have, more aggression than it actually did. Hard to put to words.

Anyways, thanks for sitting through my stream-of-conscious long winded post

Testament is one of the strangest thrash bands to me. Their popularity does not translate to the quality - which is not to say I dislike them, but they have their issues.

For the old stuff, The New Order is the best, but I like the first 3 a lot. There's good material beyond that but nothing too essential.

As for the comeback era, I think they've been surprisingly strong. The Formation of Damnation, Dark Roots of Earth, and Brotherhood of the Snake are all great - arguably better than their classic stuff. I'm not sure why Titans of Creation went so wrong - they made a much longer and slower album, with fewer interesting tracks.

The biggest problem I have with Testament is live. They sound so bad that they are almost incomprehensible. I mention this in every Testament thread because I think I'm the crazy one sometimes, but occasionally, other people agree with me. Maybe they are better now, but 3 of the 4 times I've seen them have been 3 of the worst sounding shows I've ever been to. The only time they sounded good was at Wacken 2012 and I'm convinced that Wacken wouldn't let them use their own sound guy, because he doesn't know what he's doing.

I kind of like their first 3 albums, being a big part of my formative years as a teenager becoming an angry metalhead. But then I listened to Demonic; oh my god, this album is hideous.

I loved the first two albums to deth, "The Legacy" in particular is a thrash metal classic. "The New Order" was similar but had a lot more instrumental filler tracks, still a pretty strong album though. When "Practice What You Preach" came out I thought it was a bit watered down; their version of Metallica's "Black Album" if you will, and the later stuff- some of it's decent, some of it's okay, and some of it's kinda forgettable. Nothing as good as the first couple albums though.

Interestingly, I would also agree that the biggest problem I had with Testament was their live shows. I saw them three or four times back in the day and even way back then, they were notorious for bad sound quality: They would just turn everything up to max volume until everyone drowned each other out and it was nothing more than a super loud slop fest of feedback noise. And the playing- what you could discern of it- would be generally sloppy as well.

"Practice What You Preach" is one of my favorite thrash albums, lots of nice riffs. Their 90s stuff rocks too (aside from "Demonic"...), "Low" and "The Gathering" are awash with some sweet riffs. "The Gathering" guitar tone is beautiful.

'Demonic' is the sole Testament album that I do not wholly like, but even it has its moments. 'Brotherhood...' did take a lot of spinning to really get up there; some songs didn't want to open, really.

The Legacy is easily the best Testament album. Low wins silver medal. New Order is the most overrated "thrash classic" (Ultraboris was right about this one).

outside of the very obvious love for the first three, I have a big soft spot for The Ritual. It's one of the better takes on the admittedly very annoying "lets do the black album" thing that was going on at the time imo

Low is a great record.

The GREAT.
1. Legacy
2. Gathering
3. Low (most underrated Testament by far)
4. New Order
--- Return to the Apocalyptic City EP

THE VERY GOOD
5. Practice
6. Dark Roots
7. Formation
8. Brotherhood
9. Souls of Black
10. Ritual

GOOD BUT NOT AS GOOD.
11. Titans
12. Demonic

Some observations.

Alex Skolnick is one of the best soloists, in the whole of metal. Even on less than stellar albums (like Souls of Black), his solos are so good it's worth listening to the album just for him.

Consistency; I don't see a bad record in this list.

Even though I was very much disappointed in Demonic when it came out, it's not a bad album. It's just too similar, monotone and Chuck growls all the time making the songs even less distinguishable. I still love Hatred's Rise and from time to time I play more songs like Burning Times, John Doe and Demonic Refusal. Titans was too much of the same thing for me but I reserve judgement, as I have not played it much. But places 5 to 10 range from an 8.5 to a 7.5. I give Demonic a first class 7.

This makes Testament one of the most consistent bands quality-wise, although they don't have many masterpieces (9+). They have 4, which is absolutely fine. They also have a great "reunion" run. Formation was a great comeback. Dark Roots even better. I don't understand why Throne of Thorns is never mentioned, in my opinion it is by far the best song they did after The Gathering.

The Ritual is certainly underrated, I actually was contemplating placing it above Souls of Black. The title track is a moody masterpiece. Electric Crown, As the Seasons Grey, So Many Lies, Return to Serenity, all brilliant. And Skolnick as usual.

Even more underrated is Low. It's just a perfect album that combines organically the Testament sound with the 90s. Effortless, asskicking modern metal with a 100% Testament flavor. James Murphy is fantastic as usual, so you don't miss Skolnick. Tempesta is levels above Clemente (who was always the weakest link in the band, being just OK).

The Gathering is COLOSSAL. Testament's Painkiller. Perhaps even better than the Legacy (but Legacy is a childhood favorite), I consider that album a huge milestone in thrash metal's resurgence (along with the Thrash of the Titans benefit gig), signalling the new era that peaked with the Big 4 tour. Fantastic lineup, one of Dave Lombardo's best performances. I really wanted Lombardo to do another album with Eric Peterson, because I think they have great chemistry. A shame.

I have never seen Testament live and from what I've been reading, it's too late now. I have friends I trust that tell me that two of their gigs in Greece were amazing, so I am not sure about the comments I read here. They have toured with many different drummers over the years, so maybe that plays a role.

Over the years of online metal discussions, one of the most baffling things I encountered was the disrespect to Testament and Anthrax (especially Anthrax). Never understood it. Testallica syndrome? That was over in 1993. And anyway, whoever listens to Sins of Omission and thinks "Metallica" isn't someone I would generally listen to for metal advice.

Another thing. With the exception of The Ritual and the next EP (which might feature the best Testament cover ever), Testament have some of the ugliest album covers in the 90s. Low, Demonic and Gathering are studies in bad taste. Terrible. TERRIBLE. It's a good thing they went with Eliran after.

I've never been a fan of the band, which is not to say that all of their releases are duds since the first two and especially The Gathering (almost their best IMO, but it's weighed down by some annoying tracks) are solid to really good albums. Their work since The Formation of Damnation (is it 3-5-2? I bet it is) is forgettable, utterly mediocre and pedestrian, and that's what really sinks this band for me, not really the 90s "experiments" that weren't so bad (certainly not as bad and as annoying as Practice What You Preach).

One thing that struck me about "The New Order" was that it came out only like 8 months after "The Legacy." Maybe 8 or 9 months; whatever I remember that it was less than a year. So it sounded kind of rushed to me, like the record company laid it out like "Look guys, you guys have just gotten really huge, but we need another record ASAP!" To which they responded, "But, but we don't have enough new songs yet..."

So they just filled it out with their songs that weren't quite good enough to make the final cut of the first album, then added a pointless cover tune, and some rapidly generated instrumental jams to have enough material for a full length, and voila...album number two, complete and in the books.

Which isn't to say that "The New Order" is not a good album. It is! There are some great tunes on there, but some of them do sound more "Same'y" compared to the tracks on "The Legacy." And I was always an admirer of Skolnick's guitar work, on all the albums. I would argue he is probably a more talented guitarist than any of them in the so called "Big four" with the possible exception of Dave Mustaine.

I liked the first 5 albums in a C- kind of way. The Legacy is probably their best album but I sort of get bored before any of their albums are over.

I echo the sentiments of a few people here that The Legacy is their only album that has tuck with me. The demo with Zetro is also really good.

One of their very best songs was never on an original record, that being Reign of Terror. It is a fucking thrash masterpiece, and for whatever reason was never included on The Legacy. It did make an appearance on the Trial by Fire EP though.

Does anyone have an answer as to why they have been billed as the biggest band outside of the Big 4? I have absolutely no idea where this came from, and surely bands such as Exodus and Sepultura were almost certainly bigger. I feel like it might have something to do with Atlantic Records.

If Wiki can be trusted 14+ million albums sold worldwide compared to 5+ for Exodus. I know Exodus has opened for them twice on tours I've caught in the last decade.

Worldwide Sepultura is probably bigger, but they dropped most thrash for a long time.

Exodus certainly wasn't bigger. They lost the race to the big leagues for reasons mentioned elsewhere (late BbBrelease, losing Baloff, fans and momentum), while Testament did the exact opposite (4 albums in 4 years, 5 in 6). Sepultura enter the discussion in 1989 as far as impressive sales are concerned, 1991-92 was the time they were big in thrash, well after the term big 4 was coined. Besides, their BIG status really happened with Chaos AD and even more so, Roots, which is their best selling album by far! Having said all that however, I have heard Testament being nominated for the big fifth but certainly Exodus is mentioned more often because most people confuse the big 4 as the first 4 or the most influential 4 or whatever. I've also heard Overkill as another option (wiki says 16 million).

Reign of Terror was also on the Return the Apocalyptic City EP, first time I heard it, being oblivious to the Trial by Fire single. It's the precise song linked in my post ("the next EP") Indeed, a killer song.

For the life of me, I don't understand how Sins of Omission or DNR, Legions of the Dead are being described as mediocre or pedestrian. Seriously.

Testament is a funny band in that they’re really inconsistent overall but in a way that makes them oddly endearing imo. There’s a Souls of Black for every The Legacy and most of their weaker albums still manage to throw a couple staple songs out there. The mid to late nineties era might be my favorite on the basis of how excellent Low and The Gathering are yet Demonic is their biggest mess. The modern albums would be completely interchangeable if Dark Roots of Earth wasn’t such an excellent entry. I think the personality they inject into their music goes a long way. For all their ups and downs, the series I did last year reviewing all their albums was genuinely a lot of fun to do.

Testament was the fifth thrash metal band I discovered and got into. Yes, after the Big 4 it was Testament that I discovered after seeing a cassette tape of 'Practice What You Preach' surprisingly appear in the local stores. This was back in 1989. I've been a fan ever since.

I've only seen them perform once, back in 2009 and I didn't get to enjoy their set as me and my buddy had to evacuate from the middle of the mosh pit after we discovered our wallets and cellphones were stolen.

I'll be seeing them live again this coming September 21 as part of the Bay Strikes Back tour in Manila with Exodus and Death Angel. I'm contemplating on getting meet and greet tickets but the price is way too much that I'll probably just stick to watching them perform.

Similar for me. Though it was The New Order that we found after hearing Trial by Fire on MTV.

With all due respect, this is absolutelty amazing. To make sure I understand, you, AND and another person, had TWO items EACH stolen while in the pit.?!?!??!?! What kind of black magic allows for something like that to happen?!?!??!?

Amazing.

Those two songs off The Gathering are bangers, really the best on that album (though when they slow down, they really got interesting and cool too); most the album is. The exceptions for me are "3 Days in Darkness", "Careful What You Wish For" and "Allegiance", though to be frank, I'm not really sure what that penultimate song is like, should revisit the album.

As for "Sins of Omission", I don't hear anything exciting about it. Dull mid-paced boredom, with a token recurring speedup sporting a riff that's almost non-existent as far as impact goes. It doesn't help that mixing is all wrong, like who thought it was a good idea to bury the guitars in the mix? Although, it may just be for the better since they obviously ran out of hard-hitting riffs by then. Maybe there was no need to foreground the fact.

It's not like (predominantly) mid-paced thrash can't work. Impact Is Imminent and Beyond Recognition come to mind first among albums I'd describe like that. It's just that there is something about Testament doing it, on that album particularly, that really gets on my nerves. It's not a coincidence either all of the dud songs on The Gathering are basically like that.

Re: Sins of Omission, the intro is AWESOME and the band joining in works wonders with the delicious groove that follows. Such a well-written song. The sound definitely doesn't hold up when played back to back with The Gathering but personally I enjoy it just fine. I would make the guitars more prominent for sure though. Still, not a Killing is my Business level of problem (which has been vastly improved with the remix).

Hard disagree on 3 Days of Darkness, its riff is LETHAL, grooves like a mf (Lombardo...) and I would love to chant oh oh oh at a live gig! (and what an outro solo section!). One of the album's highlights for sure. Eyes of Wrath might just be the best song on the album, which definitely has the best outro section on the album! True Believer. Again, killer. They do mid-tempo fantastically well actually.

I agree that mid-tempo thrash can work just fine. Obviously!