I mean this isn't new.

Chromaticism is not the same as Schoenberg's 12-tone technique - the latter uses each of the 12 chromatic tones in equal proportions, while most death metal songs will simply use chromatic elements without regard for tonal balance.

Though, if you happen to find a death metal song which does use 12-tone technique I'd be happy to hear it.

My guess is that it would be hard to even find death metal which strictly adheres to chromaticism as a style throughout an entire song - there are likely to be diatonic elements found even if only occasionally. Again, happy to be proven wrong here!

If I had to pinpoint a "style" generally used in death metal, I'd probably express it broadly as a preference for dissonance or atonality.

Honestly don't know the decorum standards these days, I just wanted to take a pot shot because I thought it was funny, so if it's moddable that's on me haha.

Bro nobody is trolling, they're calling you a dickhead because people have been giving detailed, thorough, well thought out explanations of the myriad of elements that help define and unify various death metal bands and you just keep responding with "no it's all about the vocals", and then when people give numerous examples of death metal bands with clean vocals or no vocals at all, and examples of bands with death growls but don't strictly play death metal, you respond with "those things that prove me wrong actually prove me right".

The only guy without arguments here is the one who keeps saying "nuh uh".

I do believe you mean embryonic.

But yes Pleasure To Kill is 100% a death metal album. I'll go even further and say it's a missing link between Seven Churches and Scream Bloody Gore. I would nominate Dark Angel Darkness Descends for that as well.

How old are you?

I'm a big death metal fan, but I don't think it's fair to just steal these albums from thrash metal just because they are aggresive, fast and violent. The riffing on Pleasure to Kill and Darkness Descends is still very much thrash metal, while Scream Bloody Gore and stuff like Altars of Madness were leaning more heavily on the death metal side of things.

Still, it's obvious that PtK and DD were important in the development of death metal. But I prefer to put them on the thrash metal side of the fence.



And bro, your age doesn't matter. The fact that you were around when the genre was born doesn't give you all encompasing knowledge of the genre over someone who was born in the 90's. It's crazy funny and ironic that people acting with such immaturity are the older guys here. Use rational arguments. Stuff that's rooted in facts, in reality, not into "I was listening to this stuff while you were still in diapers" rhetoric. It's bullshit and it convinces nobody but you and other old grumpy guys.

Multiple of the following aspects of the music in and of itself or in comparison to other genres. All of it has some wiggle room, but not infinite, see below. You can also put "relatively" just about any place it currently isn't.

Low pitched harsh vocals, generally with a relatively "open" sound, where the singer has their throat more relaxed, often "overbreathed" using the air more rapidly than normal for that particular pitch and volume. Vowel sounds, though often reduced are emphasized, and consonant sounds de-emphasized. (As opposed to black metal vocals, which, in addition to being higher pitched, the throat is generally held tighter, the air "underbreathed" giving a "strangled" type sound, and consonant sounds more preserved.)

Audible bass. The bass is often given a more prominent role as well, and will often have its own riffs or take a temporarily melodic function. Bass tone will often have "scooped mids" but will nearly always have a bass response/low pass equal or greater than the high pass. Bass will have a tone equally "dirty" to the guitars, instead of the clearer tone common in thrash.

Tone and Distortion. Distortion generally has a thicker sound, with a lower boost, what I call a "rat" distortion after the Rat pedal. Distortion level is high, but clipping and blend are both less . . . severe . . .than in black metal. While classic-style fuzz is not often used, it gets close to that level.

Chromatism (did I actually spell that right on the first try?) and scales. Death metal commonly has a significantly high degree of chromaticism than other forms of metal, at least other forms accepted here. (Nu-metal, and related 'core genres often have an even higher level of chromaticism. (Hmm, does that mean Arnold Schoenberg is trendy and accessible? Can I get an Alfred Schnittke t-shirt at Hot Topic? I spelled Schnittke for that wisecrack.) Additionally, thrash tends to reduce it's chromaticism when working with the Phrygian mode, as opposed to natural minor, while death metal tends to keep the same amount of chromaticism. Death metal is more likely to dip into the Locrian (black metal does as well). Dorian, while common in some forms of metal is much rarer in death metal. Overall, the dissonance and chromaticism in death metal are harsher than in most other forms of metal. (Black metal is either tied or a close send depending on subgenre)

Solos: First of all a note, I am not saying that death metal solos are "bad" in any way. I am going to say that death metal tends to shy away from virtuoso/cadenza solos. I actually prefer, simpler, noisier, "bluesier" solos in many ways. I think that they can serve the song better while virtuoso solos often (IMHO) distract from the emotional intensity of a song. (Unless you're Savatage, and I will be slightly bitter about that eternally.) Death metal tends to shy away from virtuoso solos, and while not discarding them entirely tend towards more sound-based solos. Solos in other subgenres, including thrash, tend to reduce dissonance in the solos, death metal (and some other genres) do not. Also thrash and other genres of metal towards that end will more often use the minor pentatonic of the scale they are in, including in Phyrgian. Death metal is more likely to continuing using the same scale (which they are generally less welded to anyway) and to remain in Phyrgian if the rest of the song is.

I'll think of more as soon as I post this.

I'm a big death metal fan, but I don't think it's fair to just steal these albums from thrash metal just because they are aggresive, fast and violent. The riffing on Pleasure to Kill and Darkness Descends is still very much thrash metal, while Scream Bloody Gore and stuff like Altars of Madness were leaning more heavily on the death metal side of things.

Still, it's obvious that PtK and DD were important in the development of death metal. But I prefer to put them on the thrash metal side of the fence.



And bro, your age doesn't matter. The fact that you were around when the genre was born doesn't give you all encompasing knowledge of the genre over someone who was born in the 90's. It's crazy funny and ironic that people acting with such immaturity are the older guys here. Use rational arguments. Stuff that's rooted in facts, in reality, not into "I was listening to this stuff while you were still in diapers" rhetoric. It's bullshit and it convinces nobody but you and other old grumpy guys.

Obviously, you and your generation do not feel the same way.

Bah today death metal is based 90% on Incantation ,Immolation,Demilich and Finland scene of 90…

Not only today but Last twenty years.

And your revisionist history isn't bullshit?

Getting butthurt and upset about asking someone's age kind of proves my point. I'm defending accuracy, you're defending being a douchebag.

Some here are obsessed with raising that revisionism stuff as if it was something to end all discussions. But historical revisionism in genre classification is not bad at all. It allows to make things cohesive with the benefice of hindsight. Because we all know things aren't that fixed at the moment when a genre or a genre name emerges.

It should be obvious that genres evolve and the early 80s was just a lot of primordial ooze and not reflective of what names got applied to sounds later. That said I do get some condescension at times like "all that old stuff is just old man dad music, not like our edgy pure stuff that we think is cooler."

I've stated that but that got pushed aside.

That's what Death Metal evolved into and it's been copied a thousand times over. When was the last truly "groundbreaking" Death Metal album? I haven't heard a lot of originality in those last twenty years.

Sweeping statements about how an entire scene has not produced anything good, or anything original, or anything anything, are generally rooted much more in ignorance and cognitive biases then actual knowledge of the music.

You have not been searching hard enough.

Portal are not death meta, they are shit metal. A new style of metal is born? probably; shit metal.

cognitive biases is spot on - the naming of things has a huge influence on how we think of them, and we haven't named a new metal genre* in well over 30 years. portal is still called death metal, but it's a lot further removed from autopsy, than autopsy is from 80's metallica, and those two are called different things (death vs thrash). why we haven't has a lot more to do with the evolving culture we find ourselves in, marketing strategies of labels, etc. rather than a lack of evolution of music

not counting sub-sub-things here

Sometimes, especially when listening to modern dissonant death metal or dissonant black metal, I wonder if they even fit within these genres anymore. I'm thinking stuff like Ad Nauseam, Ulcerate, Imperial Triumphant, Blut Aus Nord.

Portal are not death meta, they are shit metal. A new style of metal is born? probably; shit metal.

this band seemed to get a lot of praise. when I delved into their albums it sounded like semi improvised, riffless garbage. very nicely designed album covers and mysterious stage costumes but very little quality musically.

Never underestimate a nicely designed album cover.

Sure, the 30+ people who wrote positive reviews for their albums are all dumbasses who were fooled by "nicely designed album" covers. That's actually all they talk about in their reviews too.

I don't know why people feel the urge to engage in such a disingenuous matter anything they don't personnally enjoy and/or understand.

Oh, the power of the hype.