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Kalimata
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 526
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:39 am 
 

joppek wrote:
(of course a lot of that labeling is done retrospectively, which might still happen for stuff like portal and dso, but i doubt it)


Revisionism! Revisionism! You have lost and ended the thread :-D

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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:47 am 
 

Kalimata wrote:
kovner1972 wrote:
Oh, the power of the hype.


Are there moments when your brain is able to form elaborate opinions?


Tell me, are you butt-hurt because I shat on your beloved favourite band, you pathetic frog leg eater, you? If so, I do not apologise.

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linkavitch
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Korea, South
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:33 am 
 

^ That you Lord_of_Diamonds?

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:24 pm 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
Kalimata wrote:
kovner1972 wrote:
Oh, the power of the hype.


Are there moments when your brain is able to form elaborate opinions?


Tell me, are you butt-hurt because I shat on your beloved favourite band, you pathetic frog leg eater, you? If so, I do not apologise.


Seriously, go fuck yourself you bigoted turd.

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In_Zane
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 475
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:46 pm 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
Kalimata wrote:
kovner1972 wrote:
Oh, the power of the hype.


Are there moments when your brain is able to form elaborate opinions?


Tell me, are you butt-hurt because I shat on your beloved favourite band, you pathetic frog leg eater, you? If so, I do not apologise.

Tell me you're a 12 year old Fortnite player, without saying you're a 12 year old Fortnite player. :D
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Nu-metal is metal for people that don't like metal.

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Metantoine
Slave to Santa

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 12030
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:22 pm 
 

kovner has been banned. I'm recommending everyone to chill out. Notify the mods when there's users doing that sort of shit, please.
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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:28 pm 
 

Wow, this devolved really quickly...

Anyways, this discussion about Portal is interesting. I never really thought of them as true death metal in any real sense. It's also been a while since I've actually listened to them, so perhaps I should go back and see if my perspective has changed since
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BastardHead wrote:
Of all the people want to bully like a 90s sitcom bully, Trunk is an easy top 3 finish. When I inevitably develop lung cancer I'm going to make my Make-A-Wish request to be to give him a swirly.

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LilTito
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:11 pm 
 

For me, Portal is utterly visionairy and fantastic. What makes them so unique? Using 8 string guitars, extensive use of toms and not too much blastbeats, very swirly slidey kinda atonal riffage, The Curator's unique vocals, using some ambiance as well, well crafted uncanny lyrics etc.

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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 4661
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:35 pm 
 

Portal create really cool atmospheres but they have no clue about songwriting.

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LilTito
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:49 pm 
 



[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/@metalmusictheory5401[/youtube]

I emplore you to watch these. I understand if you are not interested in music theory, but i think some of you might find this intersting and helpful, although it's not really about death metal


Last edited by LilTito on Mon Jul 24, 2023 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5164
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:33 pm 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:
Anyways, this discussion about Portal is interesting. I never really thought of them as true death metal in any real sense. It's also been a while since I've actually listened to them, so perhaps I should go back and see if my perspective has changed since


Well, that's kind of where I'm at too. Some of these experimental, avant-garde and dissonant death metal bands focus less on riffing and can go on for extended periods of time without actually playing a traditionnal death metal riff.

It is possible to trace back this style of metal's origin in death metal. Listening to albums like Onset of Putrefaction and Obscura, it becomes more obvious how these were linked to death metal. I would even argue that post-Obscura Gorguts also kind of links both OSDM and dissodeath by being a little bit of both. However, when listening to the most dissonant, least traditionnal modern death metal acts, it becomes difficult to really point out what's supposed to be death metal in their music.

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Lee Harrison
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 30, 2022 6:28 am
Posts: 1458
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:18 pm 
 

I'm always sorry that someone gets banned (despite the “dickhead”given me) but saying a group x sucks without providing a minimum of discussion or elements and just insulting the people is depressing.
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Disembodied
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:29 am
Posts: 289
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:49 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
whether you think they're the worst band in the world, or the second coming of beethoven is utterly irrelevant - the point was that they're labeled as death metal on this site, but you can probably hear they don't really have tons in common with suffocation or cannibal corpse. substitute deathspell omega and darkthrone if that feels more comfortable.

for the 80's we have thrash metal, speed metal, power metal, etc. for sounds that can be pretty close to each other at the end of the day - early black and death metal too, but for the last 30+ years, tons of stuff has been stuffed inside the old labels, which have stretched to accommodate all kinds of things. this creates the illusion of musical stagnation: any new stuff is still called the same as the old stuff, which isn't the case for "the good old days" (of course a lot of that labeling is done retrospectively, which might still happen for stuff like portal and dso, but i doubt it)


This could be partly due to the fact that MA was established at a certain time and setting where the past made sense (neat divisions into thrash, death, black). So what was to come had to be "stuffed" into that context, even if it didn't seem to fit it.

Have there been any new metal genres since MA began? How would we know? Would new genres (that are as significant as doom, black, death etc) be recognized, or be recognized as being metal, if they were? Or do we view every new band in terms of what the sounds they make meant to us in 2002?

I think about that BillyR dude who seems stuck in 1985 with his genre indicators. Maybe the rest of us are not as different as we think, just stuck at a later time.

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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 4661
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:31 am 
 

Disembodied wrote:
joppek wrote:
whether you think they're the worst band in the world, or the second coming of beethoven is utterly irrelevant - the point was that they're labeled as death metal on this site, but you can probably hear they don't really have tons in common with suffocation or cannibal corpse. substitute deathspell omega and darkthrone if that feels more comfortable.

for the 80's we have thrash metal, speed metal, power metal, etc. for sounds that can be pretty close to each other at the end of the day - early black and death metal too, but for the last 30+ years, tons of stuff has been stuffed inside the old labels, which have stretched to accommodate all kinds of things. this creates the illusion of musical stagnation: any new stuff is still called the same as the old stuff, which isn't the case for "the good old days" (of course a lot of that labeling is done retrospectively, which might still happen for stuff like portal and dso, but i doubt it)


This could be partly due to the fact that MA was established at a certain time and setting where the past made sense (neat divisions into thrash, death, black). So what was to come had to be "stuffed" into that context, even if it didn't seem to fit it.

Have there been any new metal genres since MA began? How would we know? Would new genres (that are as significant as doom, black, death etc) be recognized, or be recognized as being metal, if they were? Or do we view every new band in terms of what the sounds they make meant to us in 2002?

I think about that BillyR dude who seems stuck in 1985 with his genre indicators. Maybe the rest of us are not as different as we think, just stuck at a later time.

I think there have been new metal subgenres (or at least, genres that were stablished before the creation of MA) and the consensus in this website has always that they weren't metal. Nu metal, deathcore, djent adjacent stuff, some groove metal, some post metal, some industrial, some metalcore, etc. There is no other genre you could say all those bands belong that isn't metal and they definitely aren't some new alien genre that somehow was created in limbo and not related to metal at all.

I don't even like most of those genres, just to be clear. At least some of the most clearly melodeath/"metalcore" bands like Killswitch Engage are included now.

This is a generational issue. Back in the 2000s when I started delving into metal forums, there was an even bigger aversion to any heavy bands that didn't adhere to the genre consensus of already stablished subgenres. I clearly remember different forums that separated into heavy metal and alternative metal. Even bands like Godflesh and Neurosis weren't allowed in the heavy metal forum and the consensus was that those bands were alternative metal and clearly didn't belong in a "true" metal forum. I remember my stay in those forums as a constant struggle of knowing which bands were allowed and which bands weren't so you would not be harassed.

Things have changed (mostly for the best) but there are still a lot of discrepancies and contradictions in place for what is and isn't metal, not just here.

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Thy Shrine
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 4:43 pm 
 

Not particularly interested in explaining what makes dm musically that's kind of obvious

It's this fascination with sickness and decay I find, just knowing that death is the only real thing that actually exists, I love the genre because it doesn't lie to me about what I am, it just lets me revel in the sickness that is life

And I also love the almost mocking quality it has towards normalcy, it's aggressively strange music and I'm an aggressively strange guy so it's a match made in heaven

And it has a strange level of depth and sophistication almost as if death is just a metaphor for how truly strange everything really is when you think about it

I wish more people on here would say what it means for them then bicker about the musical characteristics, as if those aren't glaringly obvious the second you start listening
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So what? You're just gonna listen to this garbage metal noise, and grow your hair long, and not get laid?


Perhaps.

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Disembodied
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:29 am
Posts: 289
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:14 pm 
 

Thy Shrine wrote:
I wish more people on here would say what it means for them then bicker about the musical characteristics, as if those aren't glaringly obvious the second you start listening


It's an interesting topic that I would also like to discuss. Maybe start a thread?

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