I’m interested in discussing albums where the person credited actually didn’t play on a particular album. I guess there are examples where it is confirmed or disputed. Here are some examples:

A good example is Sepultura and the album Arise - Although Paulo Jr. is credited as a bassist on the liner notes, Andreas Kisser and Max Cavalera handled the bass parts.

Another example would be Fear Factory and Demanufacture - Although Christian Olde Wolbers is credited on bass, he joined the band after the album was recorded. All bass on the album was played by Dino Cazares. I don’t know if this one is confirmed or disputed, as Christian Olde Wolbers has said he did play some of the bass parts on the album. I also believe there is some dispute about whether a drum machine was used or Raymond Hererra played the drum parts.

Enki (Melechesh) - Saro Orfali/Lord Curse was credited for drums despite having not actually performed on the album. All drum tracks were performed and recorded by Samuel Santiago.

The Beast (Vader) - Novy is credited on the album as a bassist, but the bass was in fact handled by Peter. I think this might be true for a number of the early Vader albums.

Are there any other examples, either confirmed or disputed?

John Hand, not on Scream bloody gore.

Chris Caffery was "introduced" on Gutter Ballet (1989) as the new rhythm guitarist for Savatage, but he didn't record any studio album with them until Dead Winter Dead in 1995.

does jason on justice for all count?

First thought was that Erik guy who's on the cover of Immortal's 'Pure Holocaust' and listed as drummer despite not actually playing on it. Looking through his page here, holy shit he's been involved the production of tons of classic albums.

Expanding on this, Andrew Shives is credited as the bassist for Soul of a New Machine, but Dino actually recorded all of the bass parts as Shives joined after recording. He didn't last long enough to make it to Demanufacture (only lasted a year due to some kind of infighting), and only played on a rerecording of Sangre de niños on Cry Now Cry Later 2. The only official release he's featured on is a bit of Digital Connectivity, which has live recordings from '93.

Opeth - My Arms, Your Hearse: I believe Akerfeldt is on bass despite the credits listing Martin Mendez.

edit: Apparently wrong. Mendez is not in the credits, but was included in the band photo (CD reissue, not original).

Regarding the drums, Dino recently said that New Breed featured a drum machine. As far as I'm aware though, Raymond played the rest.

On the subject of Fear Factory, Dino also said that two uncredited drummers played on Mechanize along with Gene Hoglan. No songs mentioned.

Tritze is credited as playing guitar on Extreme Aggression (Kreator), although I'm unsure whether that's true or not.

Thanks for the clarification.

Leprosy also has this where Terry Butler is credited on bass but Chuck played all the bass parts.

I'm just paraphrasing stuff from "Additional Notes."

On Vempire / V Empire, Cradle of Filth credited a fictional second guitarist named Jared Demeter when in fact Stuart handled all guitar parts.

Mercyful Fate's In the Shadows credited Snowy Shaw on drums when they were apparently played by Morten Nielsen.

Jeff Waters played all guitar and bass on Annihilator's debut despite a bassist (and possibly second guitarist?) receiving credit.

Also IIRC there's a King Diamond album where a human drummer is credited but I've seen people on this forum claim it's really a drum machine.

I think you are talking about 'The Eye'. I've heard different things as well, like Snowy Shaw used drum pads but other people say a drum machine was used. I'm not sure what the truth really is. Maybe someone could clarify?

The first Sepultura studio album Paulo actually recorded his bass parts for was Chaos A.D. even though he was credited on all of their previous releases.

Why do people do that? Credit other guys who never recorded anything on specific record? Coz' of the royalties?!

listening to it again and it sounds like a drum machine to me. im not confident enough to say with 100% certainty that it is, however. the cymbals especially sound fake to me, which would be the giveaway if he was just triggering his drum shells.

that being said, crediting a human drummer when a drum machine is used is something that has been done a lot. if you really went down the road of including that here the album list would balloon tremendously.

Similarly, Gian Pyres didn't play on Dusk... at all. Stuart was also the 'preferred' guitarist on Cruelty, apparently.

For obscure black metal bands I wouldn't be surprised if that's common but it's a whole other thing when an established band that has used real drummers in the past does the same thing.

Take Running Wild for example; while it's never been confirmed, it's been suspected that possibly every album since 2000's Victory has had programmed drums despite them having real drummers in the lineup and playing live.

Jesper Strömblad is credited as the drummer on the first Hammerfall album but did not play on it, Patrik Räfling was the session drummer.


Apparently this was at the request of the record label for some reason. Maybe to showcase them as a full band and not a trio? Kinda makes sense after watching the Alice in Hell music video and the other guitarist and bassist are barely shown haha.

Didn't King record Hanneman's parts on a bunch of albums?

I'm sure I read that King played all rhythm guitar parts on some Slayer albums, but Jeff did his own solos. Pretty sure it was the case for early Metallica albums too (James doing all rhythms, Kirk just doing solos).

if I recall correctly, Snowy Shaw used an electronic kit while recording The Eye.

Going along with Annihilator, Waking the Fury was also presented as a full band in the liner notes and such but was very much another Waters and maybe two other dudes type album. I think you’d be harder pressed to find any Annihilator albums that actually were recorded with a full band.

Savatage’s Handful of Rain was an especially bizarre case as it was essentially a Jon Oliva solo album with contributions from Alex Skolnick and Zak Stevens but might’ve listed him as a guest musician, if it even acknowledges him beyond songwriting. The band’s bassist and drummer were listed as performing to preserve the image of a full lineup, but the former was too emotionally devastated by Criss Oliva’s death to contribute and the latter had already quit entirely.

The debate between the bass parts on Heaven & Hell is interesting as keyboardist Geoff Nicholls is often acknowledged by the other guys for composing them (uncredited) but Geezer allegedly came back in time to record them and Craig Gruber might be there somewhere in the mix.

I love the rumor that the bass and drums on Scorpions’ Love at First Sting were actually recorded by Jimmy Bain and Bobby Rondinelli despite officially crediting the band’s rhythm section. It seems to go either way depending on who you ask, but the bass always sounds like Bain to me.

I think they are essentially crediting people as members of the band. It seems unlikely you'd get performance royalties if you didn't play on the album.

I think I read before that King did the bass too, something like he was able to lock into his own rhythm tracks easier so it was quicker for him to do them all

I believe from "Divine Intervention" on, Kerry played all the rhythm parts because Jeff was developing physical issues with his hands and I don't believe that Kirk played rhythm parts on a Metallica album until "St. Anger". That being said, one guitarist doing all or most of the rhythm parts while the lead guitarist just records the solos isn't all that uncommon. I believe that Scott Ian records the majority of Anthrax's guitar parts, as well, and the lead players just record solos. Years ago, I read an interview with Brian Baker from Bad Religion where he stated that he played the majority of the guitar parts on the Bad Religion records because he was the most proficient guitarist in the band and it was simply the most efficient process in the studio.

The Rivalry is almost definitely a drum machine too. everything after is 100% drum machine. its not even subtle.

one guitarist doing all rhythms is actually very common. you get a much more consistent result by doing that. but typically the other guitarist will record their own solos if they have any.

The playing sounds like Jörg Michael to me. It's just that the drums are heavily triggered.

Kerry King not only played Hannemann parts, also Araya's bass parts for a long time.

Yeah, that's a fair point, especially if time was of the essence. I was thinking it might be the Load albums where Kirk started doing rhythms as well, but can't say that with certainty.

Can any Type O fans shed light on what Johnny Kelly did on October Rust, World Coming Down, and Life Is Killing Me? As far as I know, there's a drum machine on all of those albums. Browsing the booklets on Discogs, Johnny is credited with drums, vocals, and programming on WCD, and drums and vocals on LIKM. Doesn't look like there's anything attributed to anyone on October Rust. I can recall an interview where it was mentioned that it was Peter that programmed the drums for those albums, but I could be wrong.

I remember reading in an old Guitar Mag or similar that Hetfield played all rhythms up until Load, because they wanted a looser feel for that album's guitars.

I remember reading in an old Guitar Mag or similar that Hetfield played all rhythms up until Load, because they wanted a looser feel for that album's guitars.

I know for sure there's a drum machine on the song "Designing the Enemy" and it's not Gene playing. I'm really not sure why, maybe the song was a last minute addition after Gene recorded his parts, but it's kind of a shame because the drums do sound a bit fake on that track at times.

Lori Black/Lorax did not play on the Melvins' Houdini album. She had already left the band, and Mark Deutrom hadn't joined yet. Bass was handled for the most part by Buzz Osbourne and Dale Crover, with Bill Bartel on one track ("Goin' Blind") and Billy Anderson on two ("Hag Me" and "Teet"), which, of course, means that my favorite Melvins bassline ever ("Teet") was done by a temp member.

I actually found an interview with Snowy Shaw. This is what he says:

But it wasn’t a drum machine obviously. I was playing on pads and parts were sort of programmed because that was what King insisted on doing.

https://metalshockfinland.com/2022/05/02/king-diamonds-the-eye-was-not-recorded-with-a-drum-machine-confirms-former-drummer-snowy-shaw/

I remember in an interview that Jeff Waters hinted that a drum machine was used on some Annihilator albums. I've always thought that Waking the Fury sounds like a drum machine, but it's just my opinion based on listening to that album.

Edit: Actually, it's Remains that is the one that uses the drum machine but I've had suspicions about other albums as well.

It sounds like Randy Black to me. Lots of his usual fills.
Just heavily triggered like with Jörg Michael in Running Wild.

Annihilator albums with drum machine, as far as I'm concerned: Remains and Schizo Deluxe.

Fair enough. It must be the overly triggered sound on the drums. Actually, Waking the Fury does have this odd sounding production. The guitars have this muffled, buzzing sound to them as well.

This is a valid reason, but I suspect the "Sid Vicious Factor" also comes into play in some situations like this. Much like the infamous Sex Pistols bassist, Paulo Jr. was a raw beginner on his instrument when he joined Sepultura, but in spite of his musical inexperience, he was considered a good fit in terms of personalities meshing with the other members. In cases like this it made more sense to let a more accomplished and experienced musician record the bass parts on the records, as the recording would be more precise and require fewer "takes." The case of John Hand and Death was similar, he was good friends with Chris Reifert and Chuck, but really wasn't a very good guitar player. Only difference, Chuck decided early on it wasn't worth the trouble keeping him in the band.

As far as drum machines, I've often suspected some of the early Bathory albums to have been done with drum machines, even though Quorthon is known to have at least rehearsed with a couple different actual live drummers during this period. And some, if not all, of the album tracks may have actually had a live drummer. But on some of the tracks, especially on "Under the Sign of the Black Mark" the drums just sound too repetitive and precise to NOT be a drum machine.

And on "Blood Fire Death" I've often suspected, though this has never been either proven or disproven, that the other two guys on the back cover were just random guys who dressed up in leather and swords to get their pictures on the album so it would seem like a band, and they may or may not have even been actual musicians. This has long been a rumor in the underground, and neither "Vvornth" or "Kothaar" have ever come forward to confirm or disprove it. And the fact that neither of them have ever surfaced in other bands, only fuels that rumor.

"Vvornth" and "Kothaar" weren't specific people as such, but instead pseudonyms adopted by whoever was playing bass and drums between 1988-96. To my ears it sounds like a real drummer is playing on Blood Fire Death. Whether it's the same guy as the one on the cover, I have no idea.

According to a recent interview with Bob Rock, Nikki Sixx didn't play bass on any Mötley Crüe record before Dr. Feelgood. Also, according to John Corabi, Mick Mars hasn't played guitar on any Mötley record after the 1994 self titled.

Keith Menser on Iced Earth's Dark Saga is a weird one. He is listed as the band's bass player and there's photo of him in the booklet, but he didn't record on the album and also never played live with them.

I was obsessed for years trying to find out what is happening on the Eye, because 1. it definitely sounds like a drum machine but 2. it also sounds like Snowy Shaw drumlines (the man is one of the few recognisable drummers out there).

He explains the whole thing on his autobiography. It's an electronic drumkit basically that could also be programmed. He did play the parts and some were fucked around with later. He also HATED it and begged to be recorded live. King and Andy convinced him (the new guy) that this was better. It wasn't and he can't listen to the album now. A shame. Still a 10/10 album.

Apparently, something very similar is the case of Crimson Glory's Transcendence. Sure sounds like it.

Morten Nielsen is actually credited in the liner notes of In the Shadows, Snowy just got the picture! Same deal with Gene Hoglan and We Have Arrived, he doesn't play on that one either but his picture is there and the real drummer is mentioned in the liner notes.

I strongly suspect that Spider's Lullabye is a drum machine. Not just the sound, the actual lines written. I'm 50-50 on Graveyard. Going by my ear alone, haven't read anything.

Same thing goes for King of the Kill and Refresh the Demon, especially King of the Kill, which I actually own. If that's a drummer, it's a shit drummer. All of those have a very uniform sound.

Speaking of suspicions, I always suspected Daniel Carbonera of Rhapsody's first two to be just a picture of a human to mask the drum machine. Sound, dynamics and drumlines are what make me think that. Also lack of live performances (which is the official excuse of why Daniel left the band...). Anyway.

Pleasure to Kill: Michael Wulf AKA Destructor (RIP) doesn't play. He was a shit guitarist, got in Kreator on merit of being a former member of Sodom (he plays on the shittier -imo- version of Obsession by Cruelty - his picture however is on the European version as well, so twice!) with no audition, as the story at least goes, got on the back cover of the album, full credit and all, played once with Kreator, Mille realized he made a mistake and that was the end of his career (patron saint of shit guitarists I guess!). I am not sure if this sequence of events is 100% correct but I like the story anyway!

What about handful of rain by Savatage? There is a full band of 5-6 people listed on the CD booklet of a reissued version I jjave but in an interview Jon Oliva said that he played all instruments (Drums, Guitars, Bass, Keys), Zak Stevens did all the vocals and Alex Sckolnick played the solos. 1994 was the period where Jon semi-retired (probably due to his brother's demise that same year.