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| Your opinion on USPM? https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=139785 |
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| Author: | yungstirjoey666 [ Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Your opinion on USPM? |
I know USPM's status as a genre is often debated by some metalheads like me, especially when the standard melodic power metal from Europe and elsewhere is used as a reference. But today I'd rather talk about how underrated this scene is. I generally see it as the "purest" form of heavy metal since it's more intense than trad, but not too reliant on outside influences like thrash is with punk, hair with pop, doom with Black Sabbath, or Euro-Japanese standard power metal is with prog or classical (I'm trying to avoid using the term EUPM here for personal reasons). There are tons of great classics here; I purchased this self-titled CD by Metal Church at the mall one day, and I really enjoy how it includes the dark elements of thrash w/o the overt punkiness, although the vocals can be a bit off, which is a bit of a problem in some other USPM bands like Manilla Road, but there are also some amazing singers like Matt Barlow and early Geoff Tate. Style-wise, it's pretty diverse, with bands ranging from learning more thrashy like early Jag Panzer or Metal Church, bands with a more "trad" vibe like Queensryche and Manowar, proggy/theatrical bands like Savatage, and bands that are reminiscent of early German power metal like Riot V (though most early German power metal can also be considered USPM in a way, as with JP's Painkiller and some Mercyful Fate). It kind of sucks that USPM isn't nearly as popular as the prevailing thrash or hair metal at the time because there is a lot to enjoy from. So what are your thoughts? What do you think of USPM? |
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| Author: | King_of_Arnor [ Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
The Metal Church debut is brilliant, one of my favourite metal albums of the 80s. USPM is indeed really varied, I've seen it being divided it into "blue collar" versus "white collar" depending on the style. Fantasy-themed lyrics seem to be one thing they usually have in common. Some other bands I'd like to give a mention are Warlord, Omen, Savage Grace and Crimson Glory. |
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| Author: | Benedict Donald [ Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Metal Church's first three are all awesome, but the debut is indeed brillant. I'd also check out the band Lizzy Borden. I suspect folks dismiss them before investigating their music, based on their look and name (both of which scream 'hair metal') but they're closer to Omen / Jag Panzer than they are to Motley Crue. Check this one out: |
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| Author: | democracyiscringe [ Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I always preferred to just call it heavy metal, but at this point most people know what you mean when you say USPM, so I guess it has utility. Although "blue collar vs. white collar" USPM is 100% made up internet forum nonsense and it should be retired. eg where does Savatage fit into that dichotomy? They were theatrical and progressive, but kinda gritty and rough too thanks to those gruff, slightly amateurish vocals. Manilla Road had a raw, down-to-earth sound, but were very "high fantasy" and usually stayed away from stripped down hard rock influence. And so on. It's just not useful. |
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| Author: | MetlaNZ [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I'm kinda wondering if the term USPM is losing it's usefulness entirely if bands like Metal Church, Savage Grace and Lizzy Borden are getting lumped into it. At this point it may as well just be called USHM. |
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| Author: | morbert [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I always found the term a bit yuck and too much of a nondescriptive umbrella term. And as with any other subgenre there are bands I like and bands I don't. Blessing in Disguise is a masterpiece for instance but I never got into Armored Saint. Did like early Helstar, didn't like Jagpanzer nor Omen etcetera etcetera |
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| Author: | Kalimata [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Quote: I generally see it as the "purest" form of heavy metal You told it yourself! |
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| Author: | Kalimata [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
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| Author: | poormouth100 [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
there's a lot of fantastic bands out there in this style. manilla road are my favorite heavy metal band ever excepting judas priest and black sabbath, their music is pure might and magic. there's a bunch of great bands though from this "scene" and an in terms of hidden gems it's a pretty deep genre to traverse. bands like adramelch, cauldron born, twisted tower dire, slauter xstroyes, slough feg etc. unfortunately have fallen into obscurity outside of dungeon metal nerds. |
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| Author: | Acrobat [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I find that Metal Church tend to get mislabelled: despite often getting labelled thrash or USPM - I think they're just heavy metal. Great band, obviously. And no, Painkiller and Mercyful Fate can't be considered USPM.  I blame RYM for making everything a "genre" on their site.
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| Author: | MetlaNZ [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Kalimata wrote: Alrighty then, looks like Slayers my new favorite USPM band, sorry Manilla Road. |
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| Author: | Kalimata [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Just like my new favorite EUPM is Venom, sorry Stratovarius. But isn't it strange this ad claims that the ultime power metal album is a must for all hardcore fans  
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| Author: | democracyiscringe [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I like Sylvie Simmons' incredibly thoughtful endorsement, "very heavy" (CREEM 5/84). They just don't do music journalism like they used to. |
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| Author: | Kalimata [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Taking in account Metallica's demo and this ad, it's pretty clear that by 1982-1985, the terms "thrash", "black metal" and "death metal" were not fixed while "power metal" and "speed metal" were used for everything that was heavier and faster than traditional heavy metal. A new term was obviously needed and calling themselves "power metal" seemed to be a mean for heavier bands to distinguinsh from happy sounding hair metal. But ironically, the term came to be applied to another happy sounding metal scene. democracyiscringe wrote: I like Sylvie Simmons' incredibly thoughtful endorsement, "very heavy" (CREEM 5/84). They just don't do music journalism like they used to. These are just two words extracted from a longer review and back then, "very heavy" had a real meaning and was adequate and totally relevant for the ad. |
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| Author: | Twisted_Psychology [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
poormouth100 wrote: there's a lot of fantastic bands out there in this style. manilla road are my favorite heavy metal band ever excepting judas priest and black sabbath, their music is pure might and magic. there's a bunch of great bands though from this "scene" and an in terms of hidden gems it's a pretty deep genre to traverse. bands like adramelch, cauldron born, twisted tower dire, slauter xstroyes, slough feg etc. unfortunately have fallen into obscurity outside of dungeon metal nerds. The fact that “dungeon metal” isn’t a thing feels like an incredible missed opportunity. As outdated as the term has started to feel in recent years, USPM probably is my favorite metal subgenre if I had to pick one. |
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| Author: | HighwayCorsair [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Debates about what exactly it is aside, USPM is one of my favorite scenes/movements ever. Can't get enough Manilla Road / Liege Lord / Fates Warning / what have you. American steel forever! |
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| Author: | SanPeron [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
| Author: | Lagartija [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I really got into this style recently and liked pretty much everything I heard. I much prefer it to European power metal, much grittier and not so sugary, so I'll keep an eye on any recs that come up in this thread. |
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| Author: | Spiner202 [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
This is a style that I enjoy more and more over time. It will never dethrone the European bands for me, but it's enjoyable in a different way. I actually like the blue-collar/white-collar distinction. It's not perfect, but it can be a helpful term. Some of my favourite bands in this genre are Crimson Glory, Gargoyle, Omen, Liege Lord, Screamer, Banshee, and Titan Force. Maybe Fifth Angel too, but I actually like their second album better than the first, and I find that to be much more melodic and more of a traditional heavy metal album. As this thread is showing, the difference is split pretty thin at times. I'm scrolling through my library and I have some of these bands categorized as USPM, some as heavy metal, and some as speed metal, so this genre is more of a "you know it when you hear it" type thing, even if it isn't perfectly defined. Manowar sort of transcends USPM IMO, but if you count them as USPM, then they're definitely my favourite band in the genre. It's sort of weird when scenes and genres cross sometimes, but I would say some of the early German speed metal bands are USPM in spirit (though obviously they can't be USPM by definition). Scanner is one of my favourite bands ever and they would fit right in with these groups, as would Angel Dust and Mania. Canada's Assault falls in a similar boat. Also, someone mentioned Helstar, and I just bought A Distant Thunder. I have to say that it's significantly better than Nosferatu. I bought Nosferatu years ago and always considered Helstar to be one of the most overrated metal bands, because I never got into it, but A Distant Thunder is way thrashier and more memorable. I've only had one listen, but I'll be jamming this a ton. |
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| Author: | poormouth100 [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
i think i prefer a distant thunder myself but i have to defend nosferatu and say that i've found it to be a grower. it leans more in the neoclassical/shred direction and took me a few listens to really glom onto what the songs were going for. it's a very complex album in terms of musicianship and can sound a bit overly tech-y but once you get past that it's brilliant imo. |
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| Author: | greywanderer7 [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Crimson Glory is so white-collar they even have anti-communist lyrics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Am47jKUFMw |
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| Author: | deadtome [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I know you all are talking USPM but damn! Been loving Fellowship and Twilight Force too lol |
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| Author: | Wilytank [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
deadtome wrote: I know you all are talking USPM but damn! Been loving Fellowship and Twilight Force too lol I mean, my favorite US power metal lately has been the golden run that Kamelot did with Roy Khan, but this is a band that doesn't seem to pop up in these conversations for some reason. |
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| Author: | yungstirjoey666 [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Kamelot is part of the so-called "European" type of power metal (though the first two albums with Vanderbilt are most likely aligned with USPM), but Khan-era does better flower metal than the majority of European bands I've heard. |
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| Author: | rarezuzuh [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Is Brocas Helm USPM? If so, then I love USPM. If not, then I hate USPM. |
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| Author: | poormouth100 [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Wilytank wrote: deadtome wrote: I know you all are talking USPM but damn! Been loving Fellowship and Twilight Force too lol I mean, my favorite US power metal lately has been the golden run that Kamelot did with Roy Khan, but this is a band that doesn't seem to pop up in these conversations for some reason. uspm as a style is separate from power metal that happens to be made in america i haven't heard everything by kamelot so i could be wrong but from what i have heard they make power metal more in line with the eupm sound. conversely there are us power metal bands that are from other countries like adramelch (italy), clovern hoof and elixir (united kingdom), battleroar (greece), mirror (cyprus), megatown sword (switzerland), etc. |
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| Author: | Kalimata [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
... which tends to confirm this US/EU power metal divide doesn't make much sense. |
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| Author: | rawsewage [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
rarezuzuh wrote: Is Brocas Helm USPM? If so, then I love USPM. If not, then I hate USPM. I consider them a part of it. |
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| Author: | poormouth100 [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Kalimata wrote: ... which tends to confirm this US/EU power metal divide doesn't make much sense. no, it makes sense as a musical distinction, the only thing that is confusing is the name. us power metal and eu power metal as styles of music don't refer to power metal made in the us or europe, it means those styles of music originally developed in those places (generally speaking). you could look at other types of music to see that this kind of thing is somewhat common. in hip hop for example there are several american rappers who make "uk drill". uk drill being a sound that developed in the uk. making "uk drill" doesn't mean you are literally making drill in the uk, it refers to the type of music you're making. there's also memphis rap which is a style that is often not made in memphis, with even some finnish rappers adopting the sound for their own music. same with the above genres. or perhaps the most well known example in popular culture is "ibiza trance". again, you don't need to literally be making trance in ibiza to make ibiza trance. that doesn't mean the sound isn't real. |
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| Author: | EndorphinMachine [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
democracyiscringe wrote: Although "blue collar vs. white collar" USPM is 100% made up internet forum nonsense and it should be retired. Never heard of this, what does it mean? |
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| Author: | poormouth100 [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
i never heard of that either but i imagine it refers to the differences between the more high fantasy, epic sounding bands and the thrashier, rougher-edged stuff. think crimson glory versus jag panzer but i think that's needlessly splitting hairs tbh |
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| Author: | deadtome [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
EndorphinMachine wrote: democracyiscringe wrote: Although "blue collar vs. white collar" USPM is 100% made up internet forum nonsense and it should be retired. Never heard of this, what does it mean? I agree with you guys. SOunds elitest and really wankery. |
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| Author: | Kalimata [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
poormouth100 wrote: Kalimata wrote: ... which tends to confirm this US/EU power metal divide doesn't make much sense. no, it makes sense as a musical distinction, the only thing that is confusing is the name. us power metal and eu power metal as styles of music don't refer to power metal made in the us or europe, it means those styles of music originally developed in those places (generally speaking). I agree with this. Power metal actually is a controversial subgenre name because it has been used for so many different things... I just wonder when it came to be called like this. As far as I know, so-called EUPM wasn't called like this until the mid-90's and I've never seen anywhere that so-called USPM was called power metal back then. At least as far least as far as Venom, Metallica and Slayer don't count.
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| Author: | Ragemanistan [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Obsession - Every effort is very solid. Classic era and reformed "featuring Michael Vescera" era . . . no weaknesses. Malice - James Neal was a singer where you didn't need a lyric sheet. 1st album, Priest worship. 2nd album was more Ratt based, but still awesome. Omen - First three albums and the EP are all Classics. You're on your own after that. Riot - Like Loudness, they maintained their classic Heavy Metal style and incorporated Thrash into that style while still staying true to themselves. Heir Apparent - I didn't know many music fans in the 80s that had their debut album, but almost every musician that I knew owned it. Heretic - Kind of generic and boring during the age of Thrash but it has grown on me over the years. Whiplash - Probably doesn't qualify . . . Insult To Injury was kind of shit on when it came out but I have always loved it. Destructor - I didn't hear their 1985 debut Maximum Destruction until after 2003's Sonic Bullet but I would have loved hearing that in the 80s. Probably too much of a Thrash album to qualify. I've seen where Forbidden is considered Power Metal . . . if that's the case, then why not Heathen? Is Powermad too Thrashy? Intruder? If Metal Church never put out The Dark, they may have been forever lumped in with the Maiden, Fates Warning, Queensryche crowd, . . . but THAT album . . . in 1986 . . . on a major label? They were grouped right in the Thrash wave that was taking over America and Europe and I have no problem with that. Blessing In Disguise is awesome but was considered a major step back at the time. Mainly because The Dark had much less of those mid-tempo songs that glut the first two thirds of Blessing. A comparison would be to put all three of the fast songs on Helloween's The Dark Ride at the end of the album . . . there's no flow. |
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| Author: | Crossbones [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
Kalimata wrote: I agree with this. Power metal actually is a controversial subgenre name because it has been used for so many different things... I just wonder when it came to be called like this. As far as I know, so-called EUPM wasn't called like this until the mid-90's and I've never seen anywhere that so-called USPM was called power metal back then. At least as far least as far as Venom, Metallica and Slayer don't count. Really, doing my homework, it seems that power metal was never truly defined as a subgenre until the mid-to-late 90s. Up until then, there wasn't really that level of definition. You could quite comfortably call the early Blind Guardian output (up until Nightfall) speed metal, while Running Wild dipped in and out of speed and traditional metal. Same goes for Gamma Ray. But then there was a new wave of bands like HammerFall, Sonata Arctica, Nightwish, Rhapsody and so on that had a more distinct sound that wasn't really copied Stateside. That seems to be the point where 'power metal' became something unto itself. U.S. power metal is definitely a product of musical pigeonholing that doesn't seem to be based off of musical stylings as much as aesthetics and lyrical themes, retroactively applied to many bands during the 80s. |
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| Author: | poormouth100 [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
some songs on show no mercy by slayer are actually pretty uspm-ish tbh |
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| Author: | SanPeron [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
The best bands of this genre are Manilla Road, Savatage, Manowar, Virgin Steele, etc. I always thought this kind of metal was pretty corny, US best metal genre from the 80s was definitely thrash metal, I think most 80s Bay Area thrash bands are better than the Manowaresque kind that US power metal created. I don't know man, I just think it sounds a little bit dated, it's a sound that grew old too fast. |
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| Author: | RickJames [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I enjoy what is usually marked USPM, regardless of the time of when it was marked like that. Bands like Omen, Laaz Rockit, Hexx, Realm, Pantera's "Power Metal" are what I'd call USPM that I like. A good deal of this material, as mentioned, is kinda thrashy already (which I love). We could kinda speak about differences about in EUPM vs USPM until our faces are blue but I just notice more thrash in USPM and more progressive elements in EUPM (if okay to use that term). |
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| Author: | King_of_Arnor [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
poormouth100 wrote: some songs on show no mercy by slayer are actually pretty uspm-ish tbh Crionics especially |
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| Author: | Thy Shrine [ Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your opinion on USPM? |
I don't like that symphonic crap I think it's really fruity and just reminds me of theater kids so I hate it on that basis. My opinion on USPM is that I need more aggressive almost thrashy backbone to it cuz stuff like helstar fucking rules but it's got fast double bass and is actually intense. I just look at it as it's the super serious cousin of popular 80s metal that somehow took all the best melodies Savatage for instance is so fucking killer as a band I almost can't breathe just unbelievable talent they had helstar rules fates warning and queensryche goes without question I like sanctuary I've been digging liege lord master control even more lately, Not exactly USPM cuz it's from Germany but I think pilgrimage by zed yago fits in stylistically and that's just a phenomenal album, there's really nothing better than this sound sometimes when I get burned up on death and black for a little bit |
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