Considering most djent bands don't sound anything like Meshuggah, I could see them not being considered djent in the future. Then we'll all be like those guys that think Mercyful Fate is black metal.
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| Author: | Spiderlix [ Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Meshuggah |
I saw people discuss about Meshuggah being influential and pioneer of djent.Why people fight about that? |
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| Author: | HeavenDuff [ Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
Spiderlix wrote: I saw people discuss about Meshuggah being influential and pioneer of djent.Why people fight about that? I'm not sure I understand your question. Meshuggah were very influential for djent, yes. What do you mean when saying that people fight about that? |
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| Author: | Spiderlix [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
HeavenDuff wrote: Spiderlix wrote: I saw people discuss about Meshuggah being influential and pioneer of djent.Why people fight about that? I'm not sure I understand your question. Meshuggah were very influential for djent, yes. What do you mean when saying that people fight about that? I saw a guy stating that Meshuggah wasn't djent and they don't should be considered a djent band.Another guy disagreed and Both start to discuss.It happened at some djent vídeo music at Youtube. |
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| Author: | HeavenDuff [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
Spiderlix wrote: HeavenDuff wrote: Spiderlix wrote: I saw people discuss about Meshuggah being influential and pioneer of djent.Why people fight about that? I'm not sure I understand your question. Meshuggah were very influential for djent, yes. What do you mean when saying that people fight about that? I saw a guy stating that Meshuggah wasn't djent and they don't should be considered a djent band.Another guy disagreed and Both start to discuss.It happened at some djent vídeo music at Youtube. So there is dissention regarding the genre they belong to. It's not all that surprising to me. Meshuggah are often considered to have started as a technical/progressive/groove/thrash metal. Elements of all these genres were found in their sound, until they went full on djent later. Still, it's not like they made a 180 degree turn on their style. They always had the roots of that sound in their music, but were maybe more rooted in metal in their early days then later. So I guess that's the source of dissention between the two guys. They disagreed on what genre Meshuggah were. |
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| Author: | SanPeron [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
Meshuggah is undoubtedly a pioneer in the technical and progressive death metal scene. They are widely credited with creating the sound that would eventually evolve into the now-popular genre of djent. Their unique blend of influences from various bands has cemented their place in the extreme metal category. Moreover, their drummer is nothing short of exceptional. I had the privilege of attending one of their live performances, and it was truly an awe-inspiring experience. The flashing lights and the sound that can only be described as infinite rage created an atmosphere like no other. |
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| Author: | poormouth100 [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
meshuggah started off as a tech-thrash band and developed their "djent" sound on destroy erase improve. this thrash metal lineage is important because it informs their music which is very much rooted in metal, albeit with a highly technical and rhythmic approach. the thing with meshuggah is whether you love them or hate them, they do not sound like any of the djent bands which they inspired. the entire djent scene is only peripherally related to metal and most of it is basically technical metal/deathcore, or jazz fusion played in a rock band context. it doesn't even sound like meshuggah outside of the fact that their guitars make the same "djent-y" sound, hence the genre name. that's why some people would not include meshuggah in djent. |
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| Author: | LilTito [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
Djent is not a genre. Meshuggah is tech thrash taken to the extreme. Use 8 string guitars, use weird rhythms and play jazz fusion solos and you'll kinda sound them |
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| Author: | Red_Death [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
LilTito wrote: Djent is not a genre. Meshuggah is tech thrash taken to the extreme. Use 8 string guitars, use weird rhythms and play jazz fusion solos and you'll kinda sound them Taken to the extreme of boredom and emptiness in terms of melody, maybe. However, to consider that as exhausting all of the options at the disposal of a band that wants to play challenging thrash metal would be just silly. |
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| Author: | HeavenDuff [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
LilTito wrote: Djent is not a genre. Meshuggah is tech thrash taken to the extreme. Use 8 string guitars, use weird rhythms and play jazz fusion solos and you'll kinda sound them Taken from RYM : Djent is a style of Progressive Metal with syncopated rhythmic structures, angular melodies, and dissonant chords. Typical traits of the sound include groovy polyrhythms (often four-over-three), cycling patterns of varying length with more unusual time signatures, a sporadic and relatively sparse use of snare, slashing use of cymbals, and both heavy and psychedelic cleanly played riffs that are highly repetitive; all usually interplayed with a high level of technicality. It relies heavily on Alternative Metal-resembling riffs (often incorporating elements from Death Metal and Math Rock) to create a chaotic atmosphere. Djent also sometimes borrows elements from Mathcore. The word "djent" is an onomatopoeia coined by Fredrik Thordendal of Meshuggah for the medium-high gain, dissonant guitar tone the genre primarily utilizes. Textures, TesseracT, Xerath and most notably Meshuggah are good examples of Djent. According to RYM, djent would be an offshoot of progressive metal with a bunch of elements that can be recognized as distinctive of the genre (syncopated rhythmic structures, angular melodies, and dissonant chords. Typical traits of the sound include groovy polyrhythms (often four-over-three), cycling patterns of varying length with more unusual time signatures, a sporadic and relatively sparse use of snare, slashing use of cymbals, and both heavy and psychedelic cleanly played riffs that are highly repetitive; all usually interplayed with a high level of technicality.) So I'd argue that it's a real subgenre. However, the place where I differ in opinion with RYM is when they describe it as a purely metal subgenre, because a lot of these bands are more on the mathcore or progressive rock sides of the equation. To me, it's a borderline subgenre between a wide variety of other musical genres. |
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| Author: | Forever Underground [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
Mesuggah's best album is still the debut, exquisite technical thrash metal with groove elements. Later they have done good things like Chaosphere, but they have never repeated that peak. |
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| Author: | Slater922 [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
No disrespect to Contradictions Collapse, but I feel like it was probably for the better that Meshuggah moved on to develop the djent genre that we all know. And even today, I can't recall any other djent band that comes close to the sheer power and harshness to that of Meshuggah. |
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| Author: | BastardHead [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
Whether or not Meshuggah counts as djent has been a discussion for as long as djent has been a term, but personally I think it's a preposterous take. The term was first used to describe a cadre of bands that all took overwhelming heaps of influence from Meshuggah, if I remember correctly the term itself is supposed to be an onomatopoeia of the guitar tone on Obzen, if you look up "best djent albums all time" on RYM the top seven results are all Meshuggah albums and the Doom soundtrack, saying that Meshuggah isn't really djent is just as ludicrous as saying Slayer isn't thrash metal. I'm not old at all but I'm apparently old enough to remember when Meshuggah was the only game in town, basically all of their fans were also/mostly fans of prog metal, and the emergence of Textures, Xerath, and Bulb were huge revelations because "holy shit people finally figured out how to actually sound like Meshuggah". People have also been making the infamous "technical nu metal" argument since as far back as then as well and I really think it's a silly way to look at them. To me, they're a progressive metal band that focused 100% of their progressiveness on rhythm and 0% on structure/harmony/etc. That's what Meshuggah's iconic, singular sound used to be, and the only thing that changed in the intervening years is that we made up djent as a name for it instead of just "an aggressive and intensely rhythmic offshoot of prog metal". Sure it got hybridized with other genres as it evolved (Sikth is another foundational band for the style but was always considered some type of weird proggy mathcore before djent was a word (they're actually a much better candidate for a band that helped invent djent despite never actually playing it as we know it today)) but the same is true of a ton of things like thrash mixing metal and punk or folk metal mixing metal with european folk music or whatever. That's why I'll always be the guy defending it as a legitimate metal subgenre. I don't even fuckin' like djent, for the record, I just think continuing to insist that it doesn't count as metal at this point can only be fully explained by a stubborn refusal to expand old definitions/traditions. So the short answer is yes: Meshuggah is a djent band because they were the first band to explore the sound, codified nearly all of the tropes of the style, the style itself is named after them, all of the early bands (and still many of the newer ones) cite them as a chief influence, and I'd safely wager that most people who know what djent is would agree that they play it. All the extra shit about whether or not it's metal is mostly just me scratching an itch because that argument has already started and I just know that this thread will inevitably devolve into three pages of arguments about it before I have to lock it. |
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| Author: | poormouth100 [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
i think it's less that meshuggah aren't djent and more that 99% of djent ain't meshuggah like all of the djent i've heard only sounds like meshuggah in the shallowest possible sense. in terms of structure and literally everything aside from the guitars making that popping sound none of the bands i've heard actually do what meshuggah are known for. although i'll admit to not hearing a lot of djent bands. also i can't think of any other metal subgenre where the good stuff is dominated so heavily by one band. |
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| Author: | Pincushion [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
Considering most djent bands don't sound anything like Meshuggah, I could see them not being considered djent in the future. Then we'll all be like those guys that think Mercyful Fate is black metal.
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| Author: | LilTito [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
HeavenDuff wrote: LilTito wrote: Djent is not a genre. Meshuggah is tech thrash taken to the extreme. Use 8 string guitars, use weird rhythms and play jazz fusion solos and you'll kinda sound them Taken from RYM : Djent is a style of Progressive Metal with syncopated rhythmic structures, angular melodies, and dissonant chords. Typical traits of the sound include groovy polyrhythms (often four-over-three), cycling patterns of varying length with more unusual time signatures, a sporadic and relatively sparse use of snare, slashing use of cymbals, and both heavy and psychedelic cleanly played riffs that are highly repetitive; all usually interplayed with a high level of technicality. It relies heavily on Alternative Metal-resembling riffs (often incorporating elements from Death Metal and Math Rock) to create a chaotic atmosphere. Djent also sometimes borrows elements from Mathcore. The word "djent" is an onomatopoeia coined by Fredrik Thordendal of Meshuggah for the medium-high gain, dissonant guitar tone the genre primarily utilizes. Textures, TesseracT, Xerath and most notably Meshuggah are good examples of Djent. According to RYM, djent would be an offshoot of progressive metal with a bunch of elements that can be recognized as distinctive of the genre (syncopated rhythmic structures, angular melodies, and dissonant chords. Typical traits of the sound include groovy polyrhythms (often four-over-three), cycling patterns of varying length with more unusual time signatures, a sporadic and relatively sparse use of snare, slashing use of cymbals, and both heavy and psychedelic cleanly played riffs that are highly repetitive; all usually interplayed with a high level of technicality.) So I'd argue that it's a real subgenre. However, the place where I differ in opinion with RYM is when they describe it as a purely metal subgenre, because a lot of these bands are more on the mathcore or progressive rock sides of the equation. To me, it's a borderline subgenre between a wide variety of other musical genres. No disrespect to you personally, but i dont give a shit what RYM thinks. Almost every "djent" band i've heard was just metalcore with synocapted chugs, either that or stuff like AAL which sounds like modern progressive metal with, again, muted chuggs here and there. If djent is a genre then only Meshuggah is playing it |
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| Author: | Thy Shrine [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
I think the question should evolve from "is meshuggah djent" to "why is djent something that doesn't immediately make me vomit, is there something wrong with me" It's so hilarious too the djent tag literally makes me picture the same thing as all those goofy derivatives of shitty club music, it's got that same timbre of douchiness I personally wish they would've developed from the first one and expanded on that, that's a very creative form of thrash imo, and it's kinda hard to really do that with thrash so I have respect for them, I just don't like where they took it to, seems very surface level and theoretically interesting than anything, and id argue it's not even interesting in that regard but yeah, it's just like cocaine in musical form, immediate gratification no real staying power |
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| Author: | Thy Shrine [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Meshuggah |
Red_Death wrote: LilTito wrote: Djent is not a genre. Meshuggah is tech thrash taken to the extreme. Use 8 string guitars, use weird rhythms and play jazz fusion solos and you'll kinda sound them Taken to the extreme of boredom and emptiness in terms of melody, maybe. However, to consider that as exhausting all of the options at the disposal of a band that wants to play challenging thrash metal would be just silly. Exactly my point, see this guy fucking gets it, good on you cuz nobody ever mentions thrash for them, they probably would've been a great fuckin band too |
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