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Sure there are rap/funk metal influences in nu metal but I wouldn't say it's not the same thing since nu metal has a broader field of influences than just hip-hop and has a post-grunge feel the two others don't have. The reason they're not on the Archives might be that these genres, although they use metal riffing sound more alternative rock overall and they don't have the spirit of traditional metal.
I'd say Rage Against the Machine is the most iconic rap metal band, Living Colour for funk metal and Korn for nu metal.

I don't consider glam metal to be a genre. So-called glam metal bands are just straight hard rock/heavy metal bands musically speaking.

Claiming that acid rock is the genre that preceded heavy metal sounds a bit weird, as if there was a linear chain of music leading to metal where acid rock is just a missing link... Acid rock exists by itself and influenced other genres, not just heavy metal. It belongs to the psychedelic rock genre and Jimi Hendrix is often seen as its most iconic artist. It influenced many genres in the late 60's and although early Black Sabbath's proto-metal is almost as much acid rock as hard rock, no one would call it "the genre that preceded heavy metal".

Rap metal is something that I feel has never been really done effectively, but I don't think it's impossible, I just think people get way too lazy on the rap and metal fronts it's just too simplified and dull, I always wanted to experiment and see if I could do it effectively

Thy Shrine wrote:

What is your thoughts about these genres that aren't presents at Heavy Metal Genres from the site:

Rap Metal I never listened to any of these bands, I can't stand Rage Against the Machine though.
Nu Metal ditto
Funk Metal Living Colour was cool, I also remember a band called Follow For Now that put out one outstanding album. Morded was well regarded but I never listened to them.
Glam Metal I suppose the most important glam bands are Motley Crue, Poison and Warrant. These bands are ok but mediocre with a plain vocalist. To me the real treasures were stuff like Steeler/Keel, Ratt, Europe, Cinderella, Dokken, and Whitesnake.

Can you say which bands are the most importants from each genre?

And a random question:What your thoughts about acid rock,the genre that preceded heavy metal? I don't enjoy acid rock for the most part.

What is your thoughts about these genres that aren't presents at Heavy Metal Genres from the site:

Rap Metal
Nu Metal
Funk Metal
Glam Metal

Can you say which bands are the most importants from each genre?

And a random question:What your thoughts about acid rock,the genre that preceded heavy metal?

I love rap and obviously I love metal, but 99% of the time when bands try to combine the two it's fucking terrible. The riffs end up being chuggy uninteresting bullshit with the most boring tough guy lyrics delivered by guys who clearly never rapped in their life.

I'm not talking about Public Enemy sampling a Slayer riff or the Anthrax collab because those are rap songs first and foremost, and Chuck D is the real deal.

The only band to successfully blend interesting riffs with aggression, good lyrics and vocals in my opinion was Rage Against the Machine.

The OP made me realize I've never actually given nu metal a proper go. I heard all the scathing criticism from the metal world and never bothered to listen to it. And I don't think I know any bands less popular than Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne. It's a bit like only knowing Metallica, Anthrax and Pantera and judging all of metal based on that. So I'll join the OP in asking for underground nu metal bands that are a good example of the genre.

I'm not big on any of these although I can tolerate them all in moderate doses. That is, except RATM - I absolutely can't stand that band. On the other hand, my guilty pleasure is Clawfinger, always liked them and stilll do.

body count is the only really good combination of hip-hop and metal that i've heard, besides rage against the machine of course

Disembodied wrote:

Nu metal is kind of an odd one because I don't remember small bands being that great even when I was young and was into this stuff. If you count Deftones, that's the best the genre ever did. If you want more stuff in that vein Loathe are great. https://sharptonerecords.bandcamp.com/a ... everything

I still really enjoy some Slipknot stuff when I'm in the mood for some "fast food" metal. Vol. 3 is great.

I guess my point is listen to Deftones, Slipknot, Incubus, some System of a Sown and of course Faith No More, which aren't technically nu metal but really, they do sound like nu metal and were the biggest influence on the genre.

back in 1999, I didn't mind SOME Nu Metal bands, but the ones that truly crossed into rap metal never did it for me. Always hated Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, POD, Hed PE. Some of the Nu Metal bands I dug songs from were Godsmack, Static-X, Systematic (although I consider them more Hard Rock than Nu Metal), Nothingface.

[*]Hair/Glam metal I've always loved and always will (especially in the summer.) Motley Crue, Poison and (the first album from) Skid Row will always be the cream of the crop for me. I think the thing with Glam Metal is, there are hardly any great full albums. It was truly a genre built on singles, and in most cases, those big singles are the best songs from the band.

I don't know shit or fuck about funk metal. The name of the genre alone has been enough to keep me away from checking it out for 25 years.

Author:	Spiderlix [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Your thoughts about these genres
What is your thoughts about these genres that aren't presents at Heavy Metal Genres from the site: Rap Metal Nu Metal Funk Metal Glam Metal Can you say which bands are the most importants from each genre? And a random question:What your thoughts about acid rock,the genre that preceded heavy metal?

Author:	pressingtoplead13 [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Nu Metal and Rap Metal kinda overlap as far as I'm concerned. I would say Korn, Limb Bizkit, and Linkin Park were the most famous of the nu metal bands but that doesnt mean their werent some other gems here and there. Glam metal IMO is predominantly about Motley Crue, in some ways glam has more influence from traditional metal than nu metal does but the tone, atmosphere and agression of nu metal is much more in line with metal than Glam. Glam has always been alittle to soft for my taste.

Author:	Slater922 [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Glam metal is the best of the four imo. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for nu metal, though even I can agree that when that genre gets bad, it gets baaaaad...

Author:	Runko [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
I always have time for acid rock, the others don't mean much to me but they have their moments.

Author:	Kalimata [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Sure there are rap/funk metal influences in nu metal but I wouldn't say it's not the same thing since nu metal has a broader field of influences than just hip-hop and has a post-grunge feel the two others don't have. The reason they're not on the Archives might be that these genres, although they use metal riffing sound more alternative rock overall and they don't have the spirit of traditional metal. I'd say Rage Against the Machine is the most iconic rap metal band, Living Colour for funk metal and Korn for nu metal. I don't consider glam metal to be a genre. So-called glam metal bands are just straight hard rock/heavy metal bands musically speaking. Claiming that acid rock is the genre that preceded heavy metal sounds a bit weird, as if there was a linear chain of music leading to metal where acid rock is just a missing link... Acid rock exists by itself and influenced other genres, not just heavy metal. It belongs to the psychedelic rock genre and Jimi Hendrix is often seen as its most iconic artist. It influenced many genres in the late 60's and although early Black Sabbath's proto-metal is almost as much acid rock as hard rock, no one would call it "the genre that preceded heavy metal".

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Author:	Spiderlix [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Kalimata wrote: Sure there are rap/funk metal influences in nu metal but I wouldn't say it's not the same thing since nu metal has a broader field of influences than just hip-hop and has a post-grunge feel the two others don't have. The reason they're not on the Archives might be that these genres, although they use metal riffing sound more alternative rock overall and they don't have the spirit of traditional metal. I'd say Rage Against the Machine is the most iconic rap metal band, Living Colour for funk metal and Korn for nu metal. I don't consider glam metal to be a genre. So-called glam metal bands are just straight hard rock/heavy metal bands musically speaking. Claiming that acid rock is the genre that preceded heavy metal sounds a bit weird, as if there was a linear chain of music leading to metal where acid rock is just a missing link... Acid rock exists by itself and influenced other genres, not just heavy metal. It belongs to the psychedelic rock genre and Jimi Hendrix is often seen as its most iconic artist. It influenced many genres in the late 60's and although early Black Sabbath's proto-metal is almost as much acid rock as hard rock, no one would call it "the genre that preceded heavy metal". Understood.I thought the site didn't like the alternative metal,but with your answer i understand now.And yeah,glam metal its definetely a pop genre. About acid rock,i don't think its the definitive genre that preceded heavy metal,but i think it was very influential with psychedelia and blues rock (Besides some bands since Judas Priest discarded its blues influences).

Author:	Thy Shrine [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Rap metal is something that I feel has never been really done effectively, but I don't think it's impossible, I just think people get way too lazy on the rap and metal fronts it's just too simplified and dull, I always wanted to experiment and see if I could do it effectively

Author:	SanPeron [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
I loved nü metal back in the 2000s, it was all over the TV, and since I was a kid in those times I have great memories of the genre when it was at its peak. I grew up and stopped listening to the style, my favorite bands of those times were Korn, Deftones, and System of a Down. As a kid, I found myself drawn to the catchy tunes of Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit. However, as I grew older, I began to view their music as somewhat cheesy, which appears to be a widespread issue within the nü metal genre.

Author:	Gravetemplar [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Thy Shrine wrote: Rap metal is something that I feel has never been really done effectively, but I don't think it's impossible, I just think people get way too lazy on the rap and metal fronts it's just too simplified and dull, I always wanted to experiment and see if I could do it effectively

Author:	Thy Shrine [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Gravetemplar wrote: Thy Shrine wrote: Rap metal is something that I feel has never been really done effectively, but I don't think it's impossible, I just think people get way too lazy on the rap and metal fronts it's just too simplified and dull, I always wanted to experiment and see if I could do it effectively I mean that's already a good rap song anyway, so them just adding rock instrumentation isnt what I mean, I mean like a really groovy type of thing but with total thrash and death style riffs Idk the way I see it as it being effective would be actual decent riffs without a dependency on chuggs shit like actual more complicated riffing

Author:	Bronze Age [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Spiderlix wrote: What is your thoughts about these genres that aren't presents at Heavy Metal Genres from the site: Rap Metal I never listened to any of these bands, I can't stand Rage Against the Machine though. Nu Metal ditto Funk Metal Living Colour was cool, I also remember a band called Follow For Now that put out one outstanding album. Morded was well regarded but I never listened to them. Glam Metal I suppose the most important glam bands are Motley Crue, Poison and Warrant. These bands are ok but mediocre with a plain vocalist. To me the real treasures were stuff like Steeler/Keel, Ratt, Europe, Cinderella, Dokken, and Whitesnake. Can you say which bands are the most importants from each genre? And a random question:What your thoughts about acid rock,the genre that preceded heavy metal? I don't enjoy acid rock for the most part.

Author:	lupin99 [ Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Spiderlix wrote: What is your thoughts about these genres that aren't presents at Heavy Metal Genres from the site: Rap Metal Nu Metal Funk Metal Glam Metal Can you say which bands are the most importants from each genre? And a random question:What your thoughts about acid rock,the genre that preceded heavy metal? Rap and nu metal was always blended together in my books RATM was the best of Rap Metal. For Nu Metal I grew up with it but man has it aged like milk. There were a few who did well. For me while Korn is still popular I always felt Slipknot (especially the first 2 albu⁰ms) really showed how aggressive nu metal can get. They were the first to get me introduced to blast beats and understand Grindcore a bit. Slipknot for me (and probably others were the most important to thst genre) 90 Funk Metal never did much for me and Glam for me was shit. Besides Dokken or Stryper (not sure if you count them as glam) was as far as I go, but again those 2 bands is pushing the definition of Glam a bit. Never liked Crue at all. Acid Rock again not my thing.

Author:	Metal_On_The_Ascendant [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
There's a lot of really great abrasive alterna-hip hop these days like Ho99o9 and JPEGMAFIA that is way more propulsive and engaging than the low effort contrived shit of old.

Author:	ThrashTilDeath530 [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
I love rap and obviously I love metal, but 99% of the time when bands try to combine the two it's fucking terrible. The riffs end up being chuggy uninteresting bullshit with the most boring tough guy lyrics delivered by guys who clearly never rapped in their life. I'm not talking about Public Enemy sampling a Slayer riff or the Anthrax collab because those are rap songs first and foremost, and Chuck D is the real deal. Linkin Park definitely brought something new to it. If you were around when Hybrid Theory came out and had a bunch of normie friends like me then you'll remember, they were fucking huge and people hadn't heard anything like it. They had more depth and variety in their lyrics, and Chester was a legit great singer, but Mike's rapping was pretty monotone and got boring after a while. The only band to successfully blend interesting riffs with aggression, good lyrics and vocals in my opinion was Rage Against the Machine. Korn had some pretty heavy riffs too and if you got molested in the 90s they're probably your favorite band.

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Author:	robotniq [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
I seldom hear anyone outside of metal forums refer to hip hop as 'rap' these days (not since the mid-90s at latest). The old adage being that "rap is something you do, hip-hop is something you live". I think the reason 'rap metal' doesn't work is that it neglects most of the aspects of hip-hop culture and just takes the most obvious part (i.e., the rapping part). I was listening the first Downset album earlier today, which I always thought was great. Steeped in hip-hop culture and with some gnarly and groovy riffs. Downset was never a metal band (being much more aligned to hardcore than metal). I'd say that "Streetcleaner" by Godflesh is the most successful hybrid of hip-hop and metal I have ever heard.

Author:	Thy Shrine [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
My complaint is like you could totally take a group like three 6 Mafia and their beat style which is very hard bass and a real kinda melodic or creepy unnerving melody in it and just translate it to the guitar and have keyboards on the side The groove and chug bullshit is really a cop out in my opinion, it's like people just don't even understand that the appeal of rap is the way the flow of the verse corresponds to the melody on top of the rhythm of the beat, that's literally the fundamental breakdown of metal too, I think people who've attempted the sound just don't have a creative way of looking at it, mostly cuz metal fans don't really understand rap at all, hell, most of the time they barely understand metal either. Responding to robotiq I think the godflesh mention is a good comparison I think industrial metal is closer to what I'm kinda describing above in terms of actually thinking outside the box, I wouldn't use street cleaner as the example tho I think pure fits the mold a little better just cuz it's less experimental you know what I mean but You've probably had the best insight of anyone talking about it that I've seen Side note that real morbid standalone melody in the song dreaming with the dead by ripping corpse was in my mind totally a perfect candidate for the melody in a rap beat I just mention that cuz we were talking about that whole scene the other day

Author:	Gemini 7 Rising [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
ThrashTilDeath530 wrote: I love rap and obviously I love metal, but 99% of the time when bands try to combine the two it's fucking terrible. The riffs end up being chuggy uninteresting bullshit with the most boring tough guy lyrics delivered by guys who clearly never rapped in their life. I'm not talking about Public Enemy sampling a Slayer riff or the Anthrax collab because those are rap songs first and foremost, and Chuck D is the real deal. The only band to successfully blend interesting riffs with aggression, good lyrics and vocals in my opinion was Rage Against the Machine. Well said, and RATM is one of a small handful of nu metal/"rap" bands (if you'd even call them that) of the era that still holds up after all these years, imo. Just great music with a lot of substance

Author:	deadtome [ Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Spiderlix wrote: What is your thoughts about these genres that aren't presents at Heavy Metal Genres from the site: Rap Metal Nu Metal Funk Metal Glam Metal Can you say which bands are the most importants from each genre? And a random question:What your thoughts about acid rock,the genre that preceded heavy metal? Rap metal:Helmet and House of Pain! Nu metal: cringe at the mere thought Funk metal: Living Colour is a great example given! Also(IMO) throw a little RHCP's in there for fun. Glam Metal: fawking love it.....all kinds, many bands.....great time \m/ Lots of really great points made here by all you members. It's interesting to see/read all the different perspectives and personalities.

Author:	mirons [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
I'm not big on any of these although I can tolerate them all in moderate doses. That is, except RATM - I absolutely can't stand that band. On the other hand, my guilty pleasure is Clawfinger, always liked them and stilll do.

Author:	In_Zane [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Glam Metal I sometimes get into the mood for, and the only Nu-Metal I've enjoyed is Slipknot (unless Sepultura's ''Roots'' counts, then I like that one too). Don't think I've ever heard Funk Metal or Rap Metal. Since I don't like rap/hip hop in general, doubt I'd care for Rap Metal.

Author:	Disembodied [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
The OP made me realize I've never actually given nu metal a proper go. I heard all the scathing criticism from the metal world and never bothered to listen to it. And I don't think I know any bands less popular than Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne. It's a bit like only knowing Metallica, Anthrax and Pantera and judging all of metal based on that. So I'll join the OP in asking for underground nu metal bands that are a good example of the genre.

Author:	joppek [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
body count is the only really good combination of hip-hop and metal that i've heard, besides rage against the machine of course

Author:	Gravetemplar [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Disembodied wrote: The OP made me realize I've never actually given nu metal a proper go. I heard all the scathing criticism from the metal world and never bothered to listen to it. And I don't think I know any bands less popular than Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne. It's a bit like only knowing Metallica, Anthrax and Pantera and judging all of metal based on that. So I'll join the OP in asking for underground nu metal bands that are a good example of the genre. Nu metal is kind of an odd one because I don't remember small bands being that great even when I was young and was into this stuff. If you count Deftones, that's the best the genre ever did. If you want more stuff in that vein Loathe are great. https://sharptonerecords.bandcamp.com/a ... everything I still really enjoy some Slipknot stuff when I'm in the mood for some "fast food" metal. Vol. 3 is great. I guess my point is listen to Deftones, Slipknot, Incubus, some System of a Sown and of course Faith No More, which aren't technically nu metal but really, they do sound like nu metal and were the biggest influence on the genre.

Author:	jimbies [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
back in 1999, I didn't mind SOME Nu Metal bands, but the ones that truly crossed into rap metal never did it for me. Always hated Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, POD, Hed PE. Some of the Nu Metal bands I dug songs from were Godsmack, Static-X, Systematic (although I consider them more Hard Rock than Nu Metal), Nothingface. Hair/Glam metal I've always loved and always will (especially in the summer.) Motley Crue, Poison and (the first album from) Skid Row will always be the cream of the crop for me. I think the thing with Glam Metal is, there are hardly any great full albums. It was truly a genre built on singles, and in most cases, those big singles are the best songs from the band. I don't know shit or fuck about funk metal. The name of the genre alone has been enough to keep me away from checking it out for 25 years.

Author:	Benedict Donald [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
I'm a huge fan of what most would describe as "glam" or "hair" metal. There were/are scores of shitty, subpar bands in the subgenre, but also plenty of talented bands with an ability to craft highly catchy, entertaining music.

Author:	Lurked [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Never really explored rap/funk metal. Don't have much of an opinion on these. On their own, I like a fair bit of hip hop and think funk can be fun. I enjoy some of the nu metal artists I listened to growing up (older Spineshank, some Static X and System of a Down). There are some fun tunes from the glam/hair metal heyday, but I've never had the urge to dig deeper.

Author:	deadtome [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
mirons wrote: I'm not big on any of these although I can tolerate them all in moderate doses. That is, except RATM - I absolutely can't stand that band. On the other hand, my guilty pleasure is Clawfinger, always liked them and stilll do. I agree about RATM....the guitar hooks (player IS talented) always bugged me and I always described them a scale band....or a guitarist that just stayed inside the parameters of a scale.

Author:	deadtome [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
joppek wrote: body count is the only really good combination of hip-hop and metal that i've heard, besides rage against the machine of course That's a damn good example! I always thought it was so cool that Ice T, being from the ganster rap days, which I did like, went and made a fawking hevay metal band too

Author:	deadtome [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Gravetemplar wrote: Disembodied wrote: The OP made me realize I've never actually given nu metal a proper go. I heard all the scathing criticism from the metal world and never bothered to listen to it. And I don't think I know any bands less popular than Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne. It's a bit like only knowing Metallica, Anthrax and Pantera and judging all of metal based on that. So I'll join the OP in asking for underground nu metal bands that are a good example of the genre. Nu metal is kind of an odd one because I don't remember small bands being that great even when I was young and was into this stuff. If you count Deftones, that's the best the genre ever did. If you want more stuff in that vein Loathe are great. https://sharptonerecords.bandcamp.com/a ... everything I still really enjoy some Slipknot stuff when I'm in the mood for some "fast food" metal. Vol. 3 is great. I guess my point is listen to Deftones, Slipknot, Incubus, some System of a Sown and of course Faith No More, which aren't technically nu metal but really, they do sound like nu metal and were the biggest influence on the genre. I just want to tell you I will never forget your term 'fast food metal', that shit is awesome!! I'm going to use that one hahaha

Author:	deadtome [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
jimbies wrote: back in 1999, I didn't mind SOME Nu Metal bands, but the ones that truly crossed into rap metal never did it for me. Always hated Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, POD, Hed PE. Some of the Nu Metal bands I dug songs from were Godsmack, Static-X, Systematic (although I consider them more Hard Rock than Nu Metal), Nothingface. [*]Hair/Glam metal I've always loved and always will (especially in the summer.) Motley Crue, Poison and (the first album from) Skid Row will always be the cream of the crop for me. I think the thing with Glam Metal is, there are hardly any great full albums. It was truly a genre built on singles, and in most cases, those big singles are the best songs from the band. I don't know shit or fuck about funk metal. The name of the genre alone has been enough to keep me away from checking it out for 25 years. That's a cool observation about hair bands only having 'built on singles', never considered it that way before. And now that I shuffle through the ones I really love in my mind I can't think of many albums in their entirety that I listen to all the way through.

Author:	RickJames [ Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Your thoughts about these genres
Spiderlix wrote: What is your thoughts about these genres that aren't presents at Heavy Metal Genres from the site: Rap Metal Nu Metal Funk Metal Glam Metal Can you say which bands are the most importants from each genre? And a random question:What your thoughts about acid rock,the genre that preceded heavy metal? To me, the first 3 genres you presented overlap, because funk is a precursor to rap/hip-hop, which led to the nu stuff. This was my original playground until I got into thrash, black, and death metal. Stuff like Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne, Mushroomhead, early Soulfly, are bands that I spin because it still rings well to me, I don't deny it. It's what brought me to metal in general, things traditional and extreme.