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Thy Shrine
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:41 pm 
 

I'll say in that regard I'm not sure if it's still the norm but I kinda remember a time where even a straightforward death of black song seemed to always have to do that kinda weird sounding melody that's a little bit alien and kinda a little proggy with the clean vocals just for a couple seconds and I never get why it's necessary I suppose it depends cuz I like dark heresy for example of maudlin of the well but that strikes me as just kinda being a shithead about it on purpose so it somehow works cuz it's kinda meant to be a little goofy but just that like brief little clean coda, it's kinda like the musical equivalent of the token black guy and it's probably used for the same reason lol

I can't see it as anything besides the guy in the 80s movies been in love with the girl forever and then he finally shows her what he looks like with his dork glasses on and of course she's giving him a handjob two seconds later.

Ironic considering when they do that it's like getting a handjob and then it's about to happen and then oh important business call and sexual harassment meeting reminder on the telephone, I coulda done without it
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coupdebleus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:11 pm
Posts: 285
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:19 pm 
 

Pick a streaming platform, look for metal, sort by most listened, set to current year only.
The current trend is nu-metal revival.
Even IRL it’s become quite noticeable for me, the scene’s not that big where I live, and I see lots of adverts looking for people to form bands in the style, as well several cover/tribute acts cropping up. Not to mention the abounding mall-goth look.

Case in point, the list of most watched videos when looking for metal, featuring:
Linkin Park - Numb (2B views)
SOAD - Chop Suey (1.2B)
Evanescence - Bring me to life (1.2B)
Disturbed - The worst cover of The Sound of Silence ever (980M)

Followed by Slipknot, Korn, 5FDP, Papa Roach, etc.
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SanPeron
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:37 pm 
 

coupdebleus wrote:
The current trend is nu-metal revival.


I concur with your point, as it aligns with what I previously expressed. This is a revival of a genre that was popular 20 years ago. It was the final era of metal's commercial popularity. For the past 20 years, mainstream metal has plateaued. However, underground metal has not been pushing boundaries, but rather playing it safe. I wanted to discuss the current state of the metal genre, but it seems that most of you are satisfied with it. I miss the times when each decade brought forth brand-new styles and sounds.
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coupdebleus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:11 pm
Posts: 285
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:03 pm 
 

Be the change you want to see in the world, what's stopping you from pushing those boundaries?

We're not even thru the first half of the decade. It's easy to see the movements in hindsight, give it time and you find they were always there. I'm sure some kids out there will blend nu metal with trap beats and come up with something new.
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King_of_Arnor
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm
Posts: 781
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:14 pm 
 

coupdebleus wrote:
Pick a streaming platform, look for metal, sort by most listened, set to current year only.
The current trend is nu-metal revival.
Even IRL it’s become quite noticeable for me, the scene’s not that big where I live, and I see lots of adverts looking for people to form bands in the style, as well several cover/tribute acts cropping up. Not to mention the abounding mall-goth look.

Case in point, the list of most watched videos when looking for metal, featuring:
Linkin Park - Numb (2B views)
SOAD - Chop Suey (1.2B)
Evanescence - Bring me to life (1.2B)
Disturbed - The worst cover of The Sound of Silence ever (980M)

Followed by Slipknot, Korn, 5FDP, Papa Roach, etc.

Just like thrash and OSDM it came full circle a generation after its peak years. Curiously it seems to be pop artists (Poppy, Grimes, etc.) who have been driving the revival the most.
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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:22 pm 
 

In the past two decades, the metal scene has been lacking in creativity, with a noticeable trend toward reviving old genres. What is the most recent subgenre that gained popularity within the metal community? Metalcore? Deathcore? That stuff has 25 years old.
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Spiderlix
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2023 4:11 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:01 pm 
 

SanPeron wrote:
I think we can all agree that each different decade had a new style to add to the metal genre, in the 90s extreme metal was perfectionated and we had pretty cool scenes like Florida's death metal, Norwegian black metal, Pantera's groove metal and post thrash sound, and in the 2000's the popularity of nu metal and the beginning of metalcore and deathcore. In the 2010's I think the most important metal trend was definitely djent, post-metal, metalcore, deathcore, the revival of OSDM, thrash revival, and traditional heavy metal revival.

But now we are entering the 2020s, which do you think are the most relevant trends in the metal world right now? I have 4 bands that I think are maintaining metal as a relevant force in mainstream music.

1 - Gojira

I think they are the most relevant of the new bands, they play well, sound good and have a mix of different genres in their sound

2 - Mastodon

The same can be said about them, a mix of different styles, they are a difficult-to-classify band, same as Gojira in that case.

3 - Meshuggah

As for sound and influence in the music of modern metal i think the Swedes have taken over, the popularity of the 7 and 8 strings guitars, the ultra-heavy sound of their music, is everywhere now.

4 - Lamb of God

I am not so sure that this band is liked by the forum, probably not. But they are the most important band of the New Wave of American Heavy Metal of the 2000s and the one that came on top since most of those bands already disappeared. I think they are important because they are still relevant and are a mix of the old groove sound of the 90s and the metalcore sound of the 2000s, like a synthesis of what modern American metal is.


I feel like djent,progressive,metalcore and groove metal are being the big trends right now.I am listening Mastodon and Gojira discographies and they are great,besides i like more groove stuff.Power metal seems like never had been out of trend too.

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deadtome
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:48 am
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:15 pm 
 

It would be great to get some working examples from seasoned members here when it comes to bands that fall into what category.
I do realize there are stark differences.....I just refer to everything as heavy metal I guess. Does that make me old? Wonder what the average age of members here is? Sometimes there are slight context clues as to ones age but it's sort of hard to tell for sure.

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Ace_Rimmer
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 4626
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:49 pm 
 

SanPeron wrote:
In the past two decades, the metal scene has been lacking in creativity, with a noticeable trend toward reviving old genres. What is the most recent subgenre that gained popularity within the metal community? Metalcore? Deathcore? That stuff has 25 years old.


I think at some point a genre like metal, or even rock, hits a wall where possible new directions are less possible without fundamentally changing into something different. What sounds or techniques could metal introduce without making it not metal?

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Gravetemplar
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:23 pm 
 

That's not even true. There's been plenty of new stuff, it's just not mainstream.

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Ace_Rimmer
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 4626
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:46 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
That's not even true. There's been plenty of new stuff, it's just not mainstream.


Point some out so I can listen to it. I'm not talking about adding more elements that are already in use in some genre.

What metal can I listen to and go "Whoa, this is taking it in a new direction"? Usually when someone recommends something that is "new" its just genre X with a bit more of some non metal element.

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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:20 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
That's not even true. There's been plenty of new stuff, it's just not mainstream.


Point some out so I can listen to it. I'm not talking about adding more elements that are already in use in some genre.

What metal can I listen to and go "Whoa, this is taking it in a new direction"? Usually when someone recommends something that is "new" its just genre X with a bit more of some non metal element.

That's your problem right there, you're thinking of this in terms like "to create something new you can't be adding more elements" instead of thinking about art in general as a continuous organic process. Black Sabbath were "just" blues with distortion. Venom were "just" Motorhead with rawer production. Art in general doesn't tend to completely ignore the past and when it does it's usually misunderstood.

Answering to your question: just compare this with Venom or Mayhem and you'll realize how far we've come.

https://oranssipazuzu.bandcamp.com/album/mestarin-kynsi

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sortalikeadream
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:34 am
Posts: 1618
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:52 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
That's your problem right there, you're thinking of this in terms like "to create something new you can't be adding more elements" instead of thinking about art in general as a continuous organic process. Black Sabbath were "just" blues with distortion. Venom were "just" Motorhead with rawer production. Art in general doesn't tend to completely ignore the past and when it does it's usually misunderstood.

Answering to your question: just compare this with Venom or Mayhem and you'll realize how far we've come.

https://oranssipazuzu.bandcamp.com/album/mestarin-kynsi


I was thinking much the same thing. There are very few quantum leaps where a new genre appears in a vacuum. Perhaps none. Death metal and black metal both came about from a series of small evolutions of thrash, doom metal stood on Sabbath's shoulders, etc.

This is compounded by the fact that it's very hard to see such evolution except in retrospect.

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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:10 pm 
 

sortalikeadream wrote:
This is compounded by the fact that it's very hard to see such evolution except in retrospect.


This is true, but it's undeniable that metal hasn't created a new subgenre or style in a long time. The current trend of reviving old genres speaks volumes about the state of metal today.
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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:20 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
That's not even true. There's been plenty of new stuff, it's just not mainstream.


To be honest, listening to bands that repeat the same style over and over again can get quite old, especially in modern times. Metal and rock seem to be genres of the past. At this point, it will receive the same treatment as blues and jazz, with the classics being played repeatedly without much variation. I mean, how many old-school death metal revival bands can we have? At some point, I'd rather listen to the original bands than the B and C tier variations.
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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:36 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
SanPeron wrote:
In the past two decades, the metal scene has been lacking in creativity, with a noticeable trend toward reviving old genres. What is the most recent subgenre that gained popularity within the metal community? Metalcore? Deathcore? That stuff has 25 years old.


I think at some point a genre like metal, or even rock, hits a wall where possible new directions are less possible without fundamentally changing into something different. What sounds or techniques could metal introduce without making it not metal?


I think that sadly we may have reached that point. it's a shame, metal was always a very groundbreaking genre in music, it feels weird to me that many guys in the forum rather listen to bands playing the same genres over and over again rather than expand the music to new frontiers like the guys that made black, thrash, death and most genres did.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 9:55 am 
 

Oranssi Pazuzu sounds good. I'd meant to try them.

There's plenty of brilliant and forward thinking stuff from just the last two years. Dodheimsgard this year and Hammers of Misfortune last year alone - brilliantly inventive.

Of course it becomes trickier when you narrow it to only brand new bands formed in the last 5-10 years, since it takes time for bands to develop sound and then break out.

Also it depends what you consider new. Blending genres isn't the only way. I like finding bands that just have their own identity and stamp on their music, or a kind of melodic sense that doesn't feel derivative.

But going back two decades, shit, there's plenty. Pharaoh, Melechesh, Messa and Horrendous immediately to come to mind for bands that have released stuff in the last 10 years that's great and forward thinking. Probably plenty more if I had time.

A lot of any genre of any type of art isn't going to always be groundbreaking either. Lots of times younger artists just do what they enjoy and don't worry about stagnating or whatever.
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Ace_Rimmer
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am
Posts: 4626
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:43 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
That's not even true. There's been plenty of new stuff, it's just not mainstream.


Point some out so I can listen to it. I'm not talking about adding more elements that are already in use in some genre.

What metal can I listen to and go "Whoa, this is taking it in a new direction"? Usually when someone recommends something that is "new" its just genre X with a bit more of some non metal element.

That's your problem right there, you're thinking of this in terms like "to create something new you can't be adding more elements" instead of thinking about art in general as a continuous organic process. Black Sabbath were "just" blues with distortion. Venom were "just" Motorhead with rawer production. Art in general doesn't tend to completely ignore the past and when it does it's usually misunderstood.

Answering to your question: just compare this with Venom or Mayhem and you'll realize how far we've come.

https://oranssipazuzu.bandcamp.com/album/mestarin-kynsi


I"ll check that out. And sure there is a clear evolution of the sound of metal bands. I was just wondering if there was anything really groundbreaking coming out these days, something that is new. Not just more of something that has been done before.

I keep waiting for real country metal but don't find it. I thought that Panopticon would be a mix of blue grass and black metal but was dissapointed to find what I listened to as black metal tracks with a bluegrass track then back to black metal. Billy Strings should make a bluegrass metal album.

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SanPeron
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:57 am 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
I keep waiting for real country metal but don't find it. I thought that Panopticon would be a mix of blue grass and black metal but was dissapointed to find what I listened to as black metal tracks with a bluegrass track then back to black metal. Billy Strings should make a bluegrass metal album.


I strongly recommend you to listen Rebel Meets Rebel, the proyect of the guys of Pantera with Dave Allen Coe and Assjack the metal project of Hank Willliams III. I recommend also the entire discography of Hank Williams III, it can only be described as heavy country outlaw music.
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Kalaratri
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:22 pm
Posts: 2881
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:00 am 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
I"ll check that out. And sure there is a clear evolution of the sound of metal bands. I was just wondering if there was anything really groundbreaking coming out these days, something that is new. Not just more of something that has been done before.

I keep waiting for real country metal but don't find it. I thought that Panopticon would be a mix of blue grass and black metal but was dissapointed to find what I listened to as black metal tracks with a bluegrass track then back to black metal. Billy Strings should make a bluegrass metal album.


You should check out the last couple of Wayfarer albums, then. They're playing a mix of atmospheric black metal and gothic country/americana.


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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:09 pm 
 

I'll have to check those out. Thanks for the tips!

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Kalaratri
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:22 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 2:33 pm 
 

If you want more bands that mix country with extreme metal I'd suggest Primeval Well as well.


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joppek
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Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 1:05 am 
 

also check out "no one gets out alive" if you don't mind shoving your tongue firmly in the cheek - oh and "stump tail (dolly)" too

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Billy Strings should make a bluegrass metal album.


that could be cool - i'd like to hear colter wall with a doom band
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red_blood_inside
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 8:24 am 
 

Hi there, late to the discussion, but Argentina has larger problems other than a loan of 45 billion from IWF. 20 years of decadence in every aspect of our life. Not to defend Milei here but he is a reflection of the others failiure. More than 100% of inflation is more than enough to undersatand why the far right (as you call it) is quite popular recently.
On topic, I guess that maybe the DSDM and it mixture with depressive rock like Psychonaut 4 are like a trend here. But I dont know if this trend is frome the late 10s or this decade
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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 12:59 pm 
 

red_blood_inside wrote:
Hi there, late to the discussion, but Argentina has larger problems other than a loan of 45 billion from IWF. 20 years of decadence in every aspect of our life. Not to defend Milei here but he is a reflection of the others failiure. More than 100% of inflation is more than enough to undersatand why the far right (as you call it) is quite popular recently.
On topic, I guess that maybe the DSDM and it mixture with depressive rock like Psychonaut 4 are like a trend here. But I dont know if this trend is frome the late 10s or this decade


I invite you to discuss the political situation of our country in the thread I created in The Tavern section of the forum. I would like to discuss why you think anarco capitalism with hints of pro 76' dictatorship are good for the population. I also don't agree with the 20 years of decadence, I think that is a pretty antiperonist and right wing view of our political situation.

On topic I don't know any band or genre that you listed here, I don't think that counts as a trend or as an important shift in the creative output of metal music on a commercial level.
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Red_Death
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:51 pm
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Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:31 pm 
 

SanPeron wrote:
This is true, but it's undeniable that metal hasn't created a new subgenre or style in a long time. The current trend of reviving old genres speaks volumes about the state of metal today.

That's a pretty narrow way to look at music.

For one thing, as Gravetemplar pointed out, there's been plenty of new developments in metal over the course of the last 2 decades. It's silly and unrealistic to stick to this criterion of making new subgenres when it comes to assessing the creativity of metal as such. One reason this doesn't make sense has already been mentioned - there's only so much ground left to explore before a piece of music would not be called metal at all. A lot of it has been covered, and even more importantly, brand new subgenres really should depart substantially from the existing ones to warrant that new label. And to go even further, for that to happen you'd have to exclude genre hybridization from consideration, all of those relatively smaller additions (whether from another sub/genre or not), and that's been one of the major sources of development.

And surely those little additions were in fact made (ironically, black metal, for which you said most bands sound the same, had a lot of such developments in the last couple of decades; you can't accuse Verdunkeln, Blut aus Nord, Emptiness, Deathspell Omega etc. etc. for merely playing revivalist/traditional black metal).
Bands carved out an identity for themselves. That's absolutely enough for me - a distinct identity, with masterful grasp of songwriting and passion, is all I would ask. After all, if there is little room for major advancements, and I think there it makes little to no sense to decry metal as a whole for being stagnant, especially when turning a blind eye to changes and shifts that are allegedly minor and insignificant.
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SanPeron
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:49 pm 
 

Red_Death wrote:
SanPeron wrote:
This is true, but it's undeniable that metal hasn't created a new subgenre or style in a long time. The current trend of reviving old genres speaks volumes about the state of metal today.

That's a pretty narrow way to look at music.

For one thing, as Gravetemplar pointed out, there's been plenty of new developments in metal over the course of the last 2 decades. It's silly and unrealistic to stick to this criterion of making new subgenres when it comes to assessing the creativity of metal as such. One reason this doesn't make sense has already been mentioned - there's only so much ground left to explore before a piece of music would not be called metal at all. A lot of it has been covered, and even more importantly, brand new subgenres really should depart substantially from the existing ones to warrant that new label. And to go even further, for that to happen you'd have to exclude genre hybridization from consideration, all of those relatively smaller additions (whether from another sub/genre or not), and that's been one of the major sources of development.

And surely those little additions were in fact made (ironically, black metal, for which you said most bands sound the same, had a lot of such developments in the last couple of decades; you can't accuse Verdunkeln, Blut aus Nord, Emptiness, Deathspell Omega etc. etc. for merely playing revivalist/traditional black metal).
Bands carved out an identity for themselves. That's absolutely enough for me - a distinct identity, with masterful grasp of songwriting and passion, is all I would ask. After all, if there is little room for major advancements, and I think there it makes little to no sense to decry metal as a whole for being stagnant, especially when turning a blind eye to changes and shifts that are allegedly minor and insignificant.


If I am narrow, you are pretty stubborn man. I don't think underground black metal counts as a trend, but feel free to think that if you want. I am talking about the worldwide influence that metal had in the 90s, 80s, and early 2000s. Nobody besides people who write in this forum knows what Verdunkein is.
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Red_Death
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:09 pm 
 

SanPeron wrote:
If I am narrow, you are pretty stubborn man. I don't think underground black metal counts as a trend, but feel free to think that if you want. I am talking about the worldwide influence that metal had in the 90s, 80s, and early 2000s. Nobody besides people who write in this forum knows what Verdunkein is.

In that specific post, you were harping on the "state of metal" as evidenced by no new subgenre being formed, referencing bands reviving old subgenres.

Do you realize that this is an entirely different thing from whether underground BM counts as a trend, or worldwide (meaning mainstream) influence? And do you realize that I never claimed "underground black metal is a trend" in the sense of mainstream appeal (which I gather is what you are aiming at), which would be ludicrous? The issue of overall creativity in metal as a whole is entirely separate from the issue of big trends (= mainstream, or nearing that status).

Now, if you are interested exclusively in the latter, both in terms of discussion and interest in listening, then certain matters would become more clear, but still, you need to point that out clearly because "metal" without qualifiers includes underground stuff too.
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SanPeron
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:18 pm 
 

Red_Death wrote:
SanPeron wrote:
If I am narrow, you are pretty stubborn man. I don't think underground black metal counts as a trend, but feel free to think that if you want. I am talking about the worldwide influence that metal had in the 90s, 80s, and early 2000s. Nobody besides people who write in this forum knows what Verdunkein is.

In that specific post, you were harping on the "state of metal" as evidenced by no new subgenre being formed, referencing bands reviving old subgenres.

Do you realize that this is an entirely different thing from whether underground BM counts as a trend, or worldwide (meaning mainstream) influence? And do you realize that I never claimed "underground black metal is a trend" in the sense of mainstream appeal (which I gather is what you are aiming at), which would be ludicrous? The issue of overall creativity in metal as a whole is entirely separate from the issue of big trends (= mainstream, or nearing that status).

Now, if you are interested exclusively in the latter, both in terms of discussion and interest in listening, then certain matters would become more clear, but still, you need to point that out clearly because "metal" without qualifiers includes underground stuff too.


Yo man, can we chill a bit? I love Luka Modric, I am sure we have some things in common. I just think the underground stuff that you listed is not very creative genre-wise. I like black metal don't get me wrong, but we have been doing the same stuff for almost 30 years. If you love it, it's a cool man, is not an attack on your musical taste.

But in the past we were doing different stuff with different sounds, creating new musical trends I just don't see it anymore. I see underground stuff, which is cool but I don't know how that is innovative in any way, I think we have some more room to explore, but we haven't found it yet.
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Red_Death
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:51 pm
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Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:34 pm 
 

SanPeron wrote:
Yo man, can we chill a bit? I love Luka Modric, I am sure we have some things in common. I just think the underground stuff that you listed is not very creative genre-wise. I like black metal don't get me wrong, but we have been doing the same stuff for almost 30 years. If you love it, it's a cool man, is not an attack on your musical taste.

But in the past we were doing different stuff with different sounds, creating new musical trends I just don't see it anymore. I see underground stuff, which is cool but I don't know how that is innovative in any way, I think we have some more room to explore, but we haven't found it yet.

I have no idea what it is that makes you think I'm not chill. I just have a specific disagreement, that is all.

Just to reiterate - honestly, I really doubt you have any meaningful listening experience with post-2000s metal, which is why your "it all sounds the same" doesn't hold water. It really doesn't sound the same, in neither subgenre in fact (this is were those relatively smaller additions, new developments and shifts come into play); and this is related to the issue of creating new subgenres, which isn't a good criterion at all (IMO) for judging the overall creativity of all metal, especially when you acknowledge yourself that objective circumstances are such that it is much harder to do so today. Another thing about trends is that you basically won't find them on the mainstream level (like, is there any "trend" around Sabaton?); gotta dig deeper man, if you're interested in metal as a whole and not only bands who keep metal "relevant in the mainstream". There are interesting micro-trends and tendencies for sure, but if you approach it from that point of view, wanting it to sounds so different from the established subgenres, that won't work, and it'll only keep you from engaging with music on a deeper level where smaller nuances can be properly appreciated.
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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:47 pm 
 

Red_Death wrote:
SanPeron wrote:
Yo man, can we chill a bit? I love Luka Modric, I am sure we have some things in common. I just think the underground stuff that you listed is not very creative genre-wise. I like black metal don't get me wrong, but we have been doing the same stuff for almost 30 years. If you love it, it's a cool man, is not an attack on your musical taste.

But in the past we were doing different stuff with different sounds, creating new musical trends I just don't see it anymore. I see underground stuff, which is cool but I don't know how that is innovative in any way, I think we have some more room to explore, but we haven't found it yet.

I have no idea what it is that makes you think I'm not chill. I just have a specific disagreement, that is all.

Just to reiterate - honestly, I really doubt you have any meaningful listening experience with post-2000s metal, which is why your "it all sounds the same" doesn't hold water. It really doesn't sound the same, in neither subgenre in fact (this is were those relatively smaller additions, new developments and shifts come into play); and this is related to the issue of creating new subgenres, which isn't a good criterion at all (IMO) for judging the overall creativity of all metal, especially when you acknowledge yourself that objective circumstances are such that it is much harder to do so today. Another thing about trends is that you basically won't find them on the mainstream level (like, is there any "trend" around Sabaton?); gotta dig deeper man, if you're interested in metal as a whole and not only bands who keep metal "relevant in the mainstream". There are interesting micro-trends and tendencies for sure, but if you approach it from that point of view, wanting it to sounds so different from the established subgenres, that won't work, and it'll only keep you from engaging with music on a deeper level where smaller nuances can be properly appreciated.


I said that because a guy got really angry at me on the unpopular opinions thread, for saying that i don't like clone bands. Maybe is a communication issue, because we don't hear the other person, we just read what they think so we add the tone of the discussion in our mind, so maybe some stuff sounds agressive when it really didn't have that intention.

Back to the topic, yeah man I listened to underground stuff, like the new Werewolves album, I just think that i listened to that a hundred times, same as the alien cover album of Blood Incantation, is just death metal man. I feel like it's been a while since i heard something that blew my mind in the genre, like when i first listened to Motorhead, Pantera, Slayer, Entombed, you know the classic bands. That's all what iam saying.
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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:27 pm 
 

Ive kinda changed my tune in regards to clone bands, basically bro just don't follow the biggest in the extreme genres, find the outliers and the clone thing will kinda destroy itself

My issue is the relative lack of aggression, primal young dude aggression I find in a lot of newer stuff, it seems too tame to me, but yeah clone band isnt a very strong argument you gotta articulate yourself a little better.

Tho if you're getting on people's nerves around here, id hardly say that's the worst thing you could do lol

You seem like me, just naturally blunt and direct when speaking, but it'll piss em off even more if you attack in their nice respectful tone lol gotta adopt that too
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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:38 pm 
 

And the problem is people really don't just look back to the 90s enough they go oh 90s black metal means Norwegian or Greek, 90s death is Florida or Sweden or NY, they don't really look outside the most popular to second teir popular stuff from that era so I think that's why it stagnates,

That's why Blood Incantation made it big, they built off a style that wasn't very much explored or collectively remembered by the scene as much so theyll appear more revolutionary or new because of it

It's just a matter of looking at what you can build off that everyone else isn't these days in the metal world

Also having more than just metal influence helps too, I think that's led to stagnation, even that's hack the common non metal influence is shoegaze post rock industrial prog rock

It's not hard to be new in metal, just be unique, it's better to take influence from people in concept imo, I've been fantasizing about a really doom death form of post metal that's a big soundscape of hell but really slow and atmospheric.

Be emotional or be aggressive in all the ways everyone doesn't, change the meaning of these words and make them yours.

There's plenty of room for new in metal, more people just need to develop their own meanings instead of following traditional ones, Euronymous did that and look what happened y'know

I think more people need to have a vision in the metal sphere, and no not the Steven Wilson type guy vision, bring it back to it's roots, just completely tear it apart don't sacrifice the aggression for creativity that's just playing by the rules, no need to prove creativity, just think a little different than everyone else
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hallowed78
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Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:53 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:47 pm 
 

In any given art form, some lead and some follow (to paraphrase Rammstein). Pioneers are always in minority, therefore it is futile to expect that every new artist will bring some boundary breaking revelation with each new release.

Although they do not form a trend (except a trend of quality music), I am grateful I live in times where there are bands like Cattle Decapitation, The Ocean, Deathspell Omega, Hail Spirit Noir, Akhlys, Ad Nauseam, Wayfarer, Solstafir, Thy Catafalque and Messa, just to name a few.

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thewrll
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:33 am
Posts: 713
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:59 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Ace_Rimmer wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
That's not even true. There's been plenty of new stuff, it's just not mainstream.


Point some out so I can listen to it. I'm not talking about adding more elements that are already in use in some genre.

What metal can I listen to and go "Whoa, this is taking it in a new direction"? Usually when someone recommends something that is "new" its just genre X with a bit more of some non metal element.

That's your problem right there, you're thinking of this in terms like "to create something new you can't be adding more elements" instead of thinking about art in general as a continuous organic process. Black Sabbath were "just" blues with distortion. Venom were "just" Motorhead with rawer production. Art in general doesn't tend to completely ignore the past and when it does it's usually misunderstood.

Answering to your question: just compare this with Venom or Mayhem and you'll realize how far we've come.

https://oranssipazuzu.bandcamp.com/album/mestarin-kynsi



These people's takes are just abysmal.

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thewrll
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:33 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:00 pm 
 

SanPeron wrote:
coupdebleus wrote:
The current trend is nu-metal revival.


I concur with your point, as it aligns with what I previously expressed. This is a revival of a genre that was popular 20 years ago. It was the final era of metal's commercial popularity. For the past 20 years, mainstream metal has plateaued. However, underground metal has not been pushing boundaries, but rather playing it safe. I wanted to discuss the current state of the metal genre, but it seems that most of you are satisfied with it. I miss the times when each decade brought forth brand-new styles and sounds.



What the absolute fuck are you going on about?

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Thy Shrine
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:41 pm 
 

Ehhh not sure where y'all are from but I'm from northern Illinois and he's kind of right the most popular modern metal sound is basically post grunge nu metal and really lame electronic influence is seemingly the good stuff these days

Not sure if that's true or just what my brother is playing but id imagine it's probably closer to what's popular in the genre of heavy stuff than something like Horrendous or Blood Incantation

Idk this place isn't exactly a very good benchmark for what's popular surprise surprise, not sure how anyone missed that considering how many people rep manilla road and fucking timeghoul, I semi wonder how many people know some of that stuff at big metal fests, probably more than I think, but I still wonder
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LilTito
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:02 am 
 

SanPeron wrote:
Red_Death wrote:
SanPeron wrote:
This is true, but it's undeniable that metal hasn't created a new subgenre or style in a long time. The current trend of reviving old genres speaks volumes about the state of metal today.

That's a pretty narrow way to look at music.

For one thing, as Gravetemplar pointed out, there's been plenty of new developments in metal over the course of the last 2 decades. It's silly and unrealistic to stick to this criterion of making new subgenres when it comes to assessing the creativity of metal as such. One reason this doesn't make sense has already been mentioned - there's only so much ground left to explore before a piece of music would not be called metal at all. A lot of it has been covered, and even more importantly, brand new subgenres really should depart substantially from the existing ones to warrant that new label. And to go even further, for that to happen you'd have to exclude genre hybridization from consideration, all of those relatively smaller additions (whether from another sub/genre or not), and that's been one of the major sources of development.

And surely those little additions were in fact made (ironically, black metal, for which you said most bands sound the same, had a lot of such developments in the last couple of decades; you can't accuse Verdunkeln, Blut aus Nord, Emptiness, Deathspell Omega etc. etc. for merely playing revivalist/traditional black metal).
Bands carved out an identity for themselves. That's absolutely enough for me - a distinct identity, with masterful grasp of songwriting and passion, is all I would ask. After all, if there is little room for major advancements, and I think there it makes little to no sense to decry metal as a whole for being stagnant, especially when turning a blind eye to changes and shifts that are allegedly minor and insignificant.


If I am narrow, you are pretty stubborn man. I don't think underground black metal counts as a trend, but feel free to think that if you want. I am talking about the worldwide influence that metal had in the 90s, 80s, and early 2000s. Nobody besides people who write in this forum knows what Verdunkein is.

Man you're dense. Black and death metal in the 90s sure as hell weren't charting, so they weren't a musical trend? Specifically industrial black metal was pretty trendy in the scene in the late 90s/early 00s but since it couldn't compete with Limp Bizkit it wasn't a trend?

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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:30 pm 
 

LilTito wrote:
Man you're dense. Black and death metal in the 90s sure as hell weren't charting, so they weren't a musical trend? Specifically industrial black metal was pretty trendy in the scene in the late 90s/early 00s but since it couldn't compete with Limp Bizkit it wasn't a trend?


I was talking about the creation of new genres and different styles, like how black metal was created in the 90s. Nothing wrong with nu metal, at least for me, it was the commercial peak of mainstream metal, and there is a revival of that genre happening now.
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SanPeron
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:56 pm
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:32 pm 
 

thewrll wrote:
SanPeron wrote:
coupdebleus wrote:
The current trend is nu-metal revival.


I concur with your point, as it aligns with what I previously expressed. This is a revival of a genre that was popular 20 years ago. It was the final era of metal's commercial popularity. For the past 20 years, mainstream metal has plateaued. However, underground metal has not been pushing boundaries, but rather playing it safe. I wanted to discuss the current state of the metal genre, but it seems that most of you are satisfied with it. I miss the times when each decade brought forth brand-new styles and sounds.



What the absolute fuck are you going on about?


Haha sorry man I sometimes use a text corrector since english isn't my first language and it writes in a weird way. I was talking about the nü metal revival.
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