Maybe more of a recommendation thread but I'm just mostly interested in what people's favorite sounds of second wave BM are besides the classic Norwegian thin raw lo fi sound, cuz Ive recently taken an interest in it a little bit closer, and first of all I really like that sort of English black/doomy kind of sound such as Deinonychus and I hear that same sort of stuff from stuff as varied as Absu's first album to even finding traces of it in that only Infester album.

I recently discovered Alastis and the Just Law is like classic Samael sound so number one I think that's a great BM sound, it's super heavy and aggressive which is something I wish more Black metal focused on, just really morbid simple riffs with lots of dark melody.

Obviously of course Beherit is classic, I would like to find other stuff that's like them so insanely simple but with tons of vision, and evilness to the proceedings

I'm probably not explaining stuff too great rn, it's about 4am in the morning I just really wanna know what other people think is premier shit that developed outside of Norway at the same time but is as classic in their opinion as the Norwegian stuff, just maybe didn't find the same prevalence or importance in history as the Darkthrones or Immortals of the world.

So what do you guys like? I'm more looking for stuff even more obscure than the classic Greek stuff as well, but any sort of stuff is appreciated, I always end up rechecking stuff out anyway, I actually realized I really dig the first rotting Christ a lot when I went and relistened a few weeks back same with the debut varathron, great stuff.

So yeah, I find I like BM more the more I explore it's more underrepresented flavors

greek black metal was pretty great, it had a much warmer sound and incorporated significant heavy metal influences which resulted in a more melodic, occasionally doomy sound. varathron (his majesty at the swamp, walpurgisnacht), rotting christ (thy mighty contract, triarchy of the lost lovers), necromantia (scarlet evil witching black), the elysian fields (we... the enlightened), agatus (dawn of martyrdom), chained and desperate (oracles to the neitherworld) are some of my favorite bands/releases in this style. some really great stuff

if you ever get tired of the super cold, raw sound of norway then hellenic black metal is a must. i'd say listen to walpurgisnacht and thy mighty contract first to get a taste then go from there

Blut aus Nord is the first band that comes to mind.

I tried the debut and I did like it, thanks for reminding me I listened to the first two a few times but wasn't really fully committed maybe thatll change

The song you just sent was the one I remember being the most impressed with I'll give it a listen with a fresher set of ears

For me black metal bands with classic releases in the 90's would be:

Abigor, from Austria, you probably know them as they are together with Summoning the most popular bands in their country, their whole catalogue from the 90's (and also later) is worth it, but my favourite has to be the debut "Verwüstung / Invoke the Dark Age".

Mütiilation, from France, one of the best known projects of Les Légions Noires, the debut "Vampires of Black Imperial Blood" is one of my favourite black metal albums of all times and quoting from memory a random Youtube comment "Makes Darkthrone sound like New Kids in the Block".

Nokturnal Mortum, from Ukraine, if you don't mind NSBM, for me Nokturnal Mortum is one of the best bands out there, they have an extravagant sound and some people can't stand them, but they are quite distinctive and really every album of theirs sounds different from the previous one, I recommend the debut "Goat Horns" and the third album "Nechrist".

Nagelfar, from Germany, is another of my favourite bands, their two albums from the 90's for me are essential pieces of the genre, the debut "Hünengrab im Herbst" is a black metal with progressive and pagan touches and the second one "Srontgorrth" is more symphonic but at the same time is more experimental and has traces of electronic and industrial music.

back when we had the best black metal albums poll, i had three 90's albums outside of norway in my top 10:
moonsorrow i'm sure you're familiar with
thy serpent - forests of witchery (doomy, melancholic)
naglfar - vittra (melodic swedish bm) ... particularly the japanese release with the demo version of 12th rising on it

other than that, be sure to check out master's hammer if you haven't - more off kilter, even avant-gardish stuff

I was trying to remembe which black metal bands not being from Norway I used to listen in the 90's and the first coming to my mind is Evol from Italy. Not sure they were good but they were pretty uncommon and far from the Scandinavian standards.

Since you like some of the Greek stuff, you'll probably like the early Czech black metal scene as well. Similar kind of heavy/thrash-inspired black metal; albeit executed slightly differently. Think of bands like early Root, Master's Hammer, Crux, Tudor, Torr.

Samael's Worship Him deserves to be mentioned!

Ritual - The Summoning is a very worthwhile black metal album from a time when there weren't many black metal bands in the US.

Moonblood might be to your liking. Here's a sample from the better of their two full-lengths, Blut & Krieg. (The other, Taste Our German Steel, ain't too shabby either.)



As of this month, all the band's many demos and rehearsals have been reissued. I'm loading up on them while they're still available, but I haven't had nearly enough time to digest them (or be able to tell them apart from one another, TBH). These are highly thought of as well.


(The first four minutes are just a Sepultura cover, FYI, not very representative of the rest.)

Also, since Mütiilation was mentioned, I would say that the best thing to come out of the Black Legions scene is the Vlad Tepes/Belkètre split, March To The Black Holocaust. Not that I've heard a lot otherwise, but Drakkar has made a lot of the lesser projects more widely available (e.g. Black Murder, Vèrmyapre Kommando, Seviss...) - none of which are in the same league as March, particularly the first half -

Sigh has to fit somewhere in here. Thought they got progressively more and more avant-garde and maybe a little less black metal over the years, their first EP, Requiem for Fools, and their first LP, Scorn Defeat, are very much rooted in black metal and are absolutely solid records!

Otherwise the greek black metal scene has been mentionned already with the usual suspects. Rotting Christ, Varathron, Necromantia, etc. They are all worth checking out for sure.

Anything from Les Légions Noires in France might also interest you. Pretty much anything in there could be at least interesting to you, but the bigger names are, of course, Mütiilation, Vlad Tepes, Belketre and Torgeist.

Outside of Les Légions Noires, but still in France, Blut Aus Nord's first LP is absolutely amazing! I know it was already mentionned, but I'm definitely seconding that pick.

Impaled Nazarene from Finland was a pretty cool black metal band back in the day, they had some punkish sound that was pretty cool.

Sear Bliss from Hungary released their first two albums in '96 and '98 and they had a fresh take on the genre. The most striking element they introduced was the use of brass instruments. That, combined with some highly memorable riffs and synths, gave the songs an epic sound. If you're into lots of melody and doomy parts, you'll probably like them. The Haunting from 1998 is a lot slower and doomier than the debut and it's also my favourite Bliss album so I'd definitely recommend that one. Also listen to the song "In the Shadow of Another World". That part at 5:45 gives me the chills every time. Did I say EPIC?

Mystifier are definitely worth a listen. Possibly the best extreme metal band from the Brazilian scene. There's some death metal influence in their sound, as well as some slower doomy moments, but the atmosphere is pure black metal and one of the most Mystifying things I've ever heard.

The first three albums are all good, but Göetia is the best one to start with. It hits the perfect sweet spot where they knew how to play their instruments and write catchy songs proficiently, but without being too polished. Wicca is fairly similar structurally, and even shares some of the same material, but the recording is a lot filthier with some pitch shifted vocals if I'm remembering correctly.

The third album is just weird, in a mostly good way. Sounds like Mystifier with more synths and weird semi-operatic vocals, but also sounds nothing like what you would imagine upon hearing that description.

These are my two favorite songs off Göetia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43hHL-1oLdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBqu0Yi_Vco

Outside Norway? Then, the undisputed number 1 would be Marduk and all the Swedish followers.

I never got into Marduk. I tried many times, and it just never clicked with me. Somehow I got a little more into Dark Funeral, which is similar enough to Marduk, so you'd think I would at least enjoy Marduk a bit, but nope. Never did anything for me.

Naer Maraton's debut. Unfortunately they started going in more of a norsecore direction later on but the debut is something like early Rotting Christ/Varathron with real drums.

Gontyna Kry from Poland (particularly Welowie). Also Veles. Do I even need to mention Graveland?

America had Wind Of The Black Mountains, Grand Belial's Key, Havohej, etc.

Russia: Blazebirth Hall in general. Branikald, Forest, etc.

Basically throw a dart, the 90s was the decade of black metal, but there's some good ones.

I'm with you I can't really pinpoint my finger on why swedish bm doesn't do it for me in general from what Ive heard idk I haven't heard a ton but maybe it's cuz I can't think of much black metal from Sweden before it got big in Norway first so it kinda seems like it's jumping on to the bandwagon.


Finland is the same kinda deal except something about Finnish people in metal seems to be they always just have the weirdest interpretation of things, they end up sounding way different than everybody for some reason

I'm not versed at all in either scene enough tho I heard the Finnish stuff is pretty Nazi infected, I'm curious what the music sounds like tho, but it seems from just hearing about it that it wouldn't be up my alley how good could a Finnish black metal band that's Nazi be? Almost sounds like the start of a Pollock joke or something

The stereotypical Finnish BM sound (in my experience) is rather stripped down, driven by proud, 'Romantic' guitar riffs and simple drumming with lots of uptempo punk beats. Hardly thrashy, not too obsessed with hyperfast blasting or trying to sound evil while leaning towards the rawer side of black metal. Of course, you can find the same variance as any other region.

And yes, their scene does seem full of NS shit. In part because a certain someone has been involved in so many bands/solo projects. Maybe the Soviet invasions and lingering tensions have something to do with it too, but that's just me throwing out an assumption.

Edit: As for some suggestions for non-Norwegian BM...

I've always had a soft spot for Sweden's Arckanum. Love the abuse of reverb and delay in the early stuff.

Unlord from the Netherlands might lean too hard on blast beats and certainly weren't innovators, but they've got a bunch of songs I enjoy.

No, Finland barely has any sort of NSBM scene. Satanic Warmaster flirted with the imagery when Lauri was under the impression that filling your lyrics with nazi stuff is what all the coolkids do, but he's backpedaled numerous times. But by then it was too late, everyone in their late 20s/30s grew up equating that band with NS and so the band's NS reputation is solidified.

Horna got tossed in some "nazi band" lists simply for refusing to disavow and cut ties their then-touring mates Peste Noire, which is just silly.

The only notable band I can think of is Clandestine Blaze, who are pretty far right. Oh and Goatmoon.

Musically Finnish black metal tends to be either really primitive and strange (Ride For Revenge, Beherit, early Impaled Nazarene) or derivative cookie cutter stuff that worships the more melodic side of 90s Norwegian scene. (Sargeist, Behexen, Horna)

Profanatica, bass-heavy and grimy black metal from the US of A. Havohej, Paul Ledney's side project, produced a slightly stranger take on that sound with Dethrone the Son of God, though I never got into the industrialized later albums.

Impiety, ultra-blasting Singaporean black metal. The lo-fi production of Skullfucking Armageddon really complements the brutality. Not a common pairing that.

Lugubrum, weird, avant garde black metal from Belgium. They have a sense of humor, and have progressively become more experimental, less black, less metal, though albums like De Totem have a creepy, unhinged vibe that the most stalwartly serious bands haven't touched.

Sabbat, Japan's kings of black metal. Nah, fuck it, the kings of metal everywhere.

I would suggest to to and see them live when you will have the chance. It is really worth it, imo. Mortuus vocals combined with the band energy are UNPARALLELED. And they never disappoint in their live shows.

Poland scene in first nineties was very obscure and raw but plagued of nationalism shits

Some really good bands have been brought up. I think "90s black metal from outside Scandinavia" would be a good starting point. Obviously Sweden and Finland are pretty close geographically and everyone knows about bands from those places almost as much as the Norwegian crowd. not that those classic bands are at all bad, but Scandinavia doesn't really overshadow other places in my mind anyway.

I don't believe anybody's mentioned Mortuary Drape from Italy yet, so i will now. Started in 1986, and put out some pretty cool but raw demos before releasing All the Witches Dance in 1994. They have deeper than usual vocals, more like sinister bellows and growls, and other vocal styles like the occasional King Diamond-esque falsetto and sinister whispers. What I like most about them though is their ability to write very mysterious, powerful music that both has killer riffs and is able to hook you in with intrigue. They got pretty exploratory on Tolling Thirteen Nell and the last one, SPiritual Indipendence is full of blazing guitar solos. They also always have very prominent basswork.

Sabbat from Japan is another worth mentioning. They started in 1985, and like many Japanese bands, have a very extensive catalogue of all sorts of release styles. early on they really had that strong NWOBHM influence, but got both thrashier and more "japanese" sounding on later releases, with some pretty cool folky instrumental passges worked into the galloping thrashy bm. Vocals can be a bit comical at times but I find them pretty charming.

Got to mention Countess from teh Netherlands too. Not a band for everyone, without doubt. Very simple anthemic riffs, a very obvious no-fucks-given drum machine, and vocals that sound like a furiously shrieking crow. You'll probably either hate them or find them extremely endearing, though maybe in small doses. The riffs are sometimes genuinely great and catchy despite their simplicity and they like to throw in odd touches from time to time that kind of take you by surprise. Their music tends to be pretty epic without being at all complicated. The guy loves Manowar and you can definitely tell.

I used to know a fair bit about the 90s Polish scene, but unfortunately many of those bands got tied in with the Nazi bullshit, and not just Graveland. Still, an album I discovered fairly recently that I don't think is along those lines is Withcer from the band Sacrelegium. ALthough, they do sound kind of Norse -- reminds me of a kind of chunkier Emperor with more bottom end and a slightly different kind of ambience.

May as well mention the Japanese Abigail too. Descending from a Blackened Sky and intercourse and lust are pretty awesome releases of furious black metal. They got increasingly silly on later recordings, with lyrics mostly focusing on drinking beer and "sluts"....pretty hard to be too serious about it though and I still enjoy that stuff; it's fun.

Of course there's Tormentor from Hungary. Anno Domini shouldn't be missed by anyone. Really awesome guitarwork on that thing and some hyper crazed vocals from the legendary Atilla.

Although I said "screw Scandinavia" earlier, I may as well toss in Barathrum from Finland. I really like their early stuff. SImple, doomy and kind of noisy at times, with lots of creepy sound effects, and pretty much all bass. I am guessing they were a huge influence on Ride for Revenge and stuff like that. They remind me of Beherit, but have more of a gothic castle than an alien irradiated jungle feeling, if that makes sense. Started to get more 'Normal" sounding on Legions of Perkele and although I like that one, it's the eccentric stuff I'm most drawn to so it was kind of the end of an era.

This just isn't accurate. These days they are considered a nazi band because Shatraug was in Blutschrei.

Just randomly thought of the French band Osculum infame, who are worth mentioning here, if anything for their really good first album from '97. Not like the other French bands mentioned so far; these guys aren't all that raw and use some keyboards to good effect. It's not too far off from a Scandinavian sound but personally I think it's got enough of its own thing to make it stand out.

I'm not very well versed in finnish black metal either. Outside of a few pillars of their scene, like Beherit. And yeah, from what I understand, quite a few of their big names are at least shady if not straight-up nsbm. Stuff like Goatmoon, Satanic Warmaster, Clandestine Blaze. Satanic Warmaster is supposed to be good musically, I think? I think that the bands of Shatraug (Horna, Sargeist, Mortualia, Necrolust) are supposed to be good, but I'm not all that familiar with these. But I think he's also supposed to be kind of shady too?

Outside of these, I remember listening to some Havukruunu before. I also really like Moonlight Sorcery, but their style is closer to that of Emperor and Stormkeep, so I don't know if their sound fits with whatever else is going on in the finnish bm scene.



I actually get the appeal of the band and their music. I also completely understand why people like their music, however I tried a few times and it's not really doing a lasting impression. Like, I enjoy it when it's playing but never really feel like revisiting it afterward. Also, I'm sure their live shows are intense, but Mortuus is probably one, if not the main reason, I don't really feel like exploring their music all that much. The guy seems like a genuinely terrible person. This combined with the fact that the music doesn't really do much for me to begin with has kind of deterred my interest for them almost completely. I still listen to their stuff if it plays at random on Spotify, or whatever, but I don't really go out of my way to listen to their stuff anymore.



Behemoth had pretty good material in the mid-late 90's!

Yes, very good call.



Another good call. The Enemy Of Virtue is a convenient compilation of their early stuff. I would also recommend Thy Kingdom Cum - one of the few genuinely unsettling pieces of recent BM I've listened to.

There are a couple new/new-ish books on BM/USBM floating around that may be worth a look. Here's one, here's another.

Can't believe I forgot Mortuary Drape. Some of the best BM out there. Make atmospheric metal that isn't boring backdrop music. Didn't Demontage tour with them?

Since we're on the subject of Italian black metal, throw Necromass in there. Not as prolific as Mortuary Drape, but their few albums are all great and they got their own sound going on. The early Italian scene was very first wave, with a lot of speed metal influence, with bands like Bulldozer, Schizo, and Necrodeath who are all also worth checking out.



I heard someone refer to Countess as the Daniel Johnston of black metal, and now that's how I always think of them.

No love for Belphegor? I know for a long time they've been a clone of modern Behemoth (one is more than enough), but those first three albums from the 90s (okay, the 90s and one from 2000) are all timers. No forest poetry, no pretty melodies, just raw brutality.

Germany's Holy Moses was making some of the most extreme of first wave BM in their demo days (they even coined "black metal" before Venom, though I can't find a recording). Check this shit out:

Ah. Not a tour; just one show. Really cool though and nice guys, even though I do have to say i was disappointed they didn't have their lead guitarist with them (really love that guy's shredding on the last album).

I really like Abyss Calls life from necromass a lot because of the really fantastic guitars, but have struggled to get into their other stuff much. I think it's the vocalist. I can't remember if he plays another instrument but he strikes me as one of those "Singer Guys"...you know the type....eager to take the spotlight and be the FRONTMAN. Doesn't really fit with their music in my opinion, and somehow that one album jsut totally worked despite him.
I think Funeral Oration might be another good one to add from Italy though. They released some stuff in the 90s, then disappeared for years, but have recently returned with some actually really good music.



So, despite having been on college radio and having an interest in weird outsider stuff, I'd actually not heard of this guy until now. Sounds charming, and I think i see what you mean. Someone on here also described Countess as "Quorthon after being hit on the head with a big rock".

Also agree about belphegor; that early stuff is definitely cool. And they were really not well liked at the time by the genearl metal press, as I recall -- pretty much none of this stuff was, which in retrospect now makes some of it feel even cooler. I would also add Denial of God here, although they once again break my "No Scandinavia' rule, being from Denmark. Also my favourite recording of theirs is Death and the Beyond, which is from 2012, but still, they were around since the early 90s and have "pro" releases from back then. I think I like that album especially thosugh because it has such a great sound, the pace is slow but the music manages to be strangely uplifting with some really cool melodies.

Here's some favorites from various different countries that were not mentioned: (some only have a few demos, but still worth checking out)


Australia - Bestial Warlust, Sadistik Exekution, Samain

Canada: Blasphemy, Frozen Shadows

Czech: Maniac Butcher

Finland: Archgoat, Musta Surma, Warloghe

France: Bekhira, S.V.E.S.T.

Germany: Baxaxaxa, Lunar Aurora, Ungod

Iceland: Potentiam, Thule

Lithuania: Anubi <- (Kind of borderline avant/experimental stuff, but still has clear roots in BM)

Netherlands: Bestial Summoning

Sweden: Nåstrond, Niden Div. 187, Setherial

USA: Black Funeral

Hmm Graven,Vargsang,Katharsis,Gratzug from Germany
Armagedda ,Craft and Pest Ep dauðafærð from Sweden

Still cool. Speaking of shredding, what do you think of their tech death album, Buried in Time?


I'll have to relisten to them. I didn't get that impression at all. I loved their latest LP Calix. Utero. Babalon. As far as Italian bands whose vocalist ruins it, the crown goes to Death SS.

Another band to throw into the mix is Manzer from France, who I am now just learning released a new album this year. Real thrashy fun that reminds of Witch Trap from Colombia.

Posthumous are a lesser known Brazilian band who released an album in '99 that incorporated traditional metal.

Holy shite this is a pretty rad thread.....can I just say my metal 'looking into' work this week has just been compounded by this fawkin information.
I came here thinking I'd have something to offer besides pointless typing but damn it I don't.

Yeah, folks on MA forums are metal (and music in general) nerds, it's great! Everytime you think you've heard everything, there's some guy who mentions a band you never heard of before. It's pretty great!

It's like angry elf music, with the puka-puka drums, the angry shrieks and cheesy synths. It's both great and terrible at the same time.

I've actuallynot heard Manzer, but I'm going toh ave to check them out.
I can add a couple more South American bands though. One is Amen Corner from Brazil..kind of doomy, a bit like Root and Mystifier. Another is Bewitched, not to be confused with the Swedish band. There was a lot of traditional metal and doom in their sound and some pretty great shredding guitars. Then the lineup underwent a big change and they released an album called Unveiling Zion with a complete 180 sound and also, well, that title, seems kinda sketchy doesn't it? Yeah....Dragonflight and Somewhere beyond the Mist are cool albums though.

haha, I sort of see what you mean about Death SS and their "hey guido I'm gonna steal your lunch!" vocals, but I don't really mind them. The band does occasionally have problems with songwriting even on their first album. But I really like some of the tracks from when Paul Chain was in the band.

Argentum were from Mexico, they played a very curious style of black metal, one of the few black metal bands outside of Europe in the 90s.