Root has a near perfect 8 album run from 'Zjevení' to 'Madness of the Graves'. I recommend starting with 'Black Seal' or if you need imore raw second wave black metal, then the first two.

If they announce a Midian full-play-through live, I would travel to just about anywhere in the world to see that.

Thank you, I will start at the beginning as it was in the days of old

They were an acquired taste for me. I believe I started with Thornography. Im seeing them in a few months, the same night KISS is playing here in St.Louis.

dont like danis vocals and the lyric writing is this weird overt blueness yet riddled with weird immature sex stuff to the point where it reads like a college freshman is reading edgar allen poe while overdosing on viagra.

i admittedly have listened to nothing past thornography so maybe he got better

Yep, just realized they're on the way to an area near me as well in NC.....not sure if I can swing that trip though gad damnit!

Well at least you know it's not for you. The stuff pre Thorn is pretty rad. I feel Dani vocal are what really separate them from other acts, and the lyrics too. Not many, if any, other metal bands write like D does. Guess I sound like a total fanboy but I'm no literature major.

I very much consider them to be a black metal band: I mean, they're not really "symphonic" in any meaningful sense - they're inspired by horror soundtracks and goth rock as far as the keyboards go, but I wouldn't say it's designed to ape an orchestra for the most part (at least on the albums that matter, I'm not really familiar with their post-Midian work and I thought that was a big let down following from the 90's albums and, say, Hammer of the Witches seems like the sort of "later Megadeth let's try and make an album for the fans" rather than something a bit more genuine... dunno, I could be wrong).

The 1990s stuff, however, is superb for the most part (not particularly into the Cradle to Enslave EP even if the cover of 'Sleepless' is excellent.

The debut, whilst still formative in many ways compared to what follows, is haunting and very unique for the time. They would certainly get better but there's a lot to praise there. Was there anything that sounded like that in 1993?

V Empire is pretty great, I do need to spend more time with it, though. A solid step up in terms of playing and production but still not quite as brilliant as the next two full-lengths.

Dusk and Her Embrace is a masterpiece: the playing, the songs (better rendered than on the original version), the atmosphere - it sounds like Whitby Abbey on a stormy night. It's one of the best metal albums ever, no matter how you slice it. An incredible step-up and their peak, complete with a superb production and wonderful performances (Barker and Anstis shine in particular). Great, great, great stuff and you get Cronos rearing his demonic head, too.

Cruelty and the Beast is one of those rare concept albums that tells its story very well but doesn't ever forget the fact that it's a heavy fucking metal album first and foremost. I know a lot of people - the band included - have gripes with the production but I think it just sounds like 1998 and I don't really have a problem with that. Similarly, brilliant performances, all great songs... and Ingrid Pitt! A suitably Hammer Horror end to their classic era.

After that? I dunno, Midian never seemed as inspired to me: the chemistry of the old line-up is missing and I struggle to remember many of the songs (I will re-visit it given how many people in this thread are singing its praises).

I don't really care about their MTV era and would rather just remember them for being this idiosyncratic and quintessentially English black metal band.

The thing I'm enjoying the most about the Hammer of the Witches and beyond era is that many of the members are people who grew up loving Cradle of Filth, and so in a way, this music is being written as a tribute to the earlier stuff. It's obviously not the same thing, but I'm enjoying it. I feel like Paul and crew were getting a bit burned out on the whole thing for those last few albums he played on.

I'm hoping to make that show despite it being on a weeknight and a decent drive from where I love South of STL. But I need to see CoF at least once.

Thanx for the well written reply and thoughts.
Maybe give Midian another chance if you find the time.
I agree completely about Dusk. It was first time with them and I listened quite closely and with intent almost daily on long walks through town and became completely enamored and just kept absorbing from there. I guess if one becomes a fan of one particular line up it could make it difficult to see one of your fav's go. I usually stick with bands I really like despite line up changes.

From all the stuff I've read, a lot of members have found it difficult to continue working with Dani for long periods of time.....but who knows. I've also read the pay scale isn't always even Steven either which would be frustrating if you're trying to make a living. But with all that it's always kind of seemed like Dani's baby in a way from what I can tell in my limited experience with being a fan.

Well shit man.
Makes me reconsider.
I don't have anyone to attend with and like you, it's a decent drive from where I live too. And yah......I've blown it before, not going to see a band, then they break up or someone passes away and there goes my chance. And yah, October 17th is a bloody Tuesday!

I skipped so many artists I should have seen due to "I can catch them later" only to never catch them.

Dio
Heaven and Hell
Tom Petty
Mayhem
Dimmu Borgir
etc...

With luck Cradle will go on first at my show and I get out of there before 10 pm.

Tá fáilte romhat!

Vempire has probably their best track in Queen Of Winter Throned but overall I prefer the atmosphere and concept on Cruelty, and despite the general consensus about the production, I actually think it added to the whole atmosphere and gave it a unique sound. The remastered version is great as well though and the majority prefer it from what I see.

I don't think there's a skip-able song on Midian but if I had to pick just one favorite it would be Tearing the Veil From Grace.

Well shit man.
Makes me reconsider.
I don't have anyone to attend with and like you, it's a decent drive from where I live too. And yah......I've blown it before, not going to see a band, then they break up or someone passes away and there goes my chance. And yah, October 17th is a bloody Tuesday![/quote]

I skipped so many artists I should have seen due to "I can catch them later" only to never catch them.

Dio
Heaven and Hell
Tom Petty
Mayhem
Dimmu Borgir
etc...

With luck Cradle will go on first at my show and I get out of there before 10 pm.[/quote]

Damn.

Looks like they're with Devildriver which is interesting since Dani worked with them a little. I don't think they'd open for DD though.
I saw Social Distortion once and THEY opened for Flogging Molly which I thought was odd but what do I know?

I've never really given a second thought to 'production'. If that's the way the band released it then that's what I accept you know?
COF always seems to have cool atmosphere too. I love all the openings and interludes as well.
I had the Satanic Mantra on my answering machine once lol.....my kids knew the words too it played so much.

Ill be on LOA from work for a few weeks due to my anniversary at this time. It sucks that one of my friends is seeing KISS, which is ironic since he really wanted to see COF, but it wasnt announced until a month or so ago. Right about when my vacation ends is when Metallica will be here.

Fully endorsed. Agree 100% with all of this. My first time hearing Midian was that of exceptional disappointment. Subsequent releases - including the so called “come back” records, have all left me cold. Still always give them an open mind in the rare chance they return to the magic of dusk or cruelty. Alas…

They were a really important gateway band for me. As with most other such bands, I will occasionally go on a binge and listen to all of the stuff that got me into them, but rarely anything else. The last album I listened to back in the day was Nymphetamine, and that's pretty much where I stop listening today as well. Even though their last 2-3 releases have garnered a lot of positive attention, I can't really get into them. I don't know how much of it is because the style is different from old CoF and how much is simply a question of it not being available during my more impressionable years. But it's okay, I'm glad they're still around and that others enjoy their stuff.

Cruelty is their unrivaled masterpiece IMO, the riffing and their sense of melody still baffle me to this day. I don't even mind the production on the original version that much. In fact, if I could've changed just one thing, it would've been Nick's weird blasting, where he only plays every other hit on the kick.

I would've loved to hear what that same lineup could've made if it had stayed together. What would their interpretation of Damnation and a Day sound like? Not that I really mind the direction they did take, I think it's cool they experimented with different sounds.

I love the concept of DAAD, the production and the orchestration, but damn is it bloated. It could lose a good chunk of its songs for my part. And why on earth didn't they reuse the motifs of the orchestral interludes in the metal songs? Goddamn, it would've made for some amazing symphonic metal, and for a more cohesive feel at that.

You make some very good points. I get what you mean about it being difficult to go back to the days of early influence. For me personally that kind of just makes me have mixed feeling in that I'm happy about being reminded of youth and sad that it's gone.
Very interesting to wonder 'what if' they had kept up with the old crew. Barker is one of my fav drummers of all time I think for his work in COF, Dimmu and that one Old Man record......I've checked out the other bands he's played in too but those 3 are tops for me.
It would be interesting to have a beer with Dani and just see what happens......but then again......might be weird.

Since they are doing a co-headlining that normally means they alternate who closes night by night. So hopefully CoF goes on first that night.

It's not really that it's difficult. It's more a question of having moved on to other bands / sounds / genres, and therefore a band like CoF just isn't in my regular rotation any longer. But a lot of it also has to with me simply having had my fill of them, so to speak. It's not new enough for me to listen to regularly.

100% agree on Barker, what an absolute beast of a drummer. There are a few clips of CoF playing songs off Cruelty live, and the guy sounds pretty much exactly like on the record. Unbelievable.

Yah, he's awesome on that kit. The newest keyboard player/female vocals is really good too. I'm sure they (Dani) vets the newbies pretty thoroughly. I watched all of that show I posted from San Palou. Seemed like a short set even though it was an hour.
I always return the bands I love(d). I've mentioned it, many too many times, but I do a radio show so I'm always plugged into music.

Tea rules
But re Cradle, it's just that symphonic and Gothic stuff in general put me off (with limited exceptions).

I do love that symphonic stuff, the gothic I go case by case basis I have a local classical station playing all day, everyday, no matter what
I'm doing or listening to.

They were maybe the only black metal band which understood that evil is actually supposed to be seductive. Perhaps that's why they were one of the bands who paved the door for the genre to reach a female audience, because even though their lyrics are almost always about Dani feeling horny for countless seductresses and vampire ladies and succubi, somehow they are more clever and don't come off as misogynist as the usual BM lyrics that talk about these topics (which are always about bitches and sodomy and sodomizing and killing bitches).

If they'd called it quits after the Dusk/Cruelty lineup fell off (namely, after Stuart and Nick Barker left), they'd be considered black metal legends. Dusk is one of the best metal albums period. Like a classic King Diamond album on steroids that still falls firmly within the more melodic, majestic section of the second wave of black metal.

They just burned themselves out releasing record after record of an increasingly watered down mishmash of different metal styles. I don't get the praise for Midian, it sounds like a worse Slaughter of the Soul (perhaps because of the basic drumming of Adrian Erlandsson) with a church organ. The last three records have been decent, but they are just too polished for my taste. There are good ideas there, as well as effort on the part of the performers, but it is still "job metal". The magic and atmosphere of those early records has disappeared.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, and tastes are wildly subjective...

But you are either high as a kite or out of your proper mind if you genuinely believe that...

I understand (but disagree with) the idea that Midian is a severe step down from Dusk / Cruelty.

But of all the metal albums described as having a SOTS influence, I don't get that from Midian at all. Despite having the same drummer. And not only because the songs on Midian are about twice as long on average; the two albums just go for quite different atmospheres IMO.

LOL, I love the description in the first paragraph! And the bit about evil being seductive is an incredible interpretation \m/

Same here! And I think it's right on point. Cradle always incorporated the "female aspect" of black metal in a very interesting way. I know those definitions are arbitrary but they lend themselves to clear stereotypes within artistic expression.

I saw some YouTube video a while back that argued that death metal was very male and black metal female. I can sort of see how that would be correct, even if both genres are pretty skewed towards the male.

I like Dusk and Her Embrace and Cruelty a lot. I have to be in the mood for the vocals, but overall they're cool - nice Halloweenish opera metal shit.

The last album they did was pretty boring and by numbers.

Pretty boring are your constant posts.

By contrast that was an incredible post that really expanded everything and added to discussion

Seems history in gen is skewed towards men......if I'm taking your comment correctly.
I can't think of any BM that women perform, but PLENTY of heavy stuff!
I'd love to have a look at this video you referenced too please

Voi paska!

Really? I like it a lot and have been listening to it fairly often. The new track 'she is fire' is cool too, to be found on the latest release with the live stuff. Haha, true about the music being Halloween-esque.
That would be another good thread to see folks here in costumes.

Uh.......huh?

How do you like COF? What say you?

I was a fan back in the 90's but kind of lost track for years. I've since gotten back into them again. Their last few albums have been stellar. I love Hammer of the Witches and their latest, Existence is Futile, is a scorcher. Dani's voice is divisive but I've always dug him. I just find their albums highly entertaining.