They very obviously value the lyrics and the message, and they might be at the core of their music. But you're very much arguing in bad faith by suggesting that the band themselves admitting to the importance of the message means that they don't care about the music they make.

And what the hell does pop music and anarchy have to do with each other...

The music clearly isn't why people bought Dawn Ray'd albums and I am sure even the band knows that.

Well this is basically just the whole meme picture where it's like "you claim to be against society, yet you participate," etc - it is what it is. I don't know what you want from em I guess. They broke up so clearly it's not some sort of hollow scam where they're trying to bleed us for money and clout or whatever.

The message was clearly really important to them too and that's fine. Not any less valid of an art form. Some of you guys seem to think if a band has any kind of message to promote then they must be posers or disingenuous or something but I just don't see it here.

Most bands don't do that. The thought of every black metal band paying to have a press kit made is hilarious.

But also the band in more or less ways admitted that they only played black metal in order to ysay their message in "places where it needs to be said". They admitted to being and are a gimmick by definition. They played black metal specifically to piss of black metal fans. They were succesful. But the music they made doesn't stand on its own outside of their joke.

True, but they also exhibited anti-voting sentiments on their song Sepulcher (Don’t Vote) and that sentiment is incredibly harmful and entitled. Case of good intentions but bad praxis. That's my reason for not vibing with their music 100%.

This thread is the last time you will ever hear about them on this forum because even their fans will stop listening to them once they aren't an active, touring band.

That song's actual lyrics are good and on point and I agree with them. That opens up a whole can of worms about the necessity of voting and all that but I see it as a utility rather than anything remotely noble or worth getting patriotic about.

In this thread I learned that a subgenre that came into form on the backs of a bunch of dudes burning churches and killing each other and themselves while wearing elaborate makeup somehow cares a whole lot about a gimmick.

Elaborate makeup and photoshoots with medieval weapons in the woods while making silly angry faces.

People are really praising Batushka? I saw them live twice and they sucked.

It is an utility. One of the greatest utilities we have! You don't have to see it as something noble. And the most vulnerable people in all our different societies have a very real material interest in the outcome. I think that's the obvious conclusion to come to. Anti-voting sentiments are mind poison. Totally antithetical to the goal of making people's lives better.

Edit: and yes, no matter what you think of their message, Dawn Ray'd was definitely not a gimmick band.

Some of you guys are completely clueless, aren't you? You may not like them but they definitely weren't "a gimmick". They were the real deal. A gimmick would be bands like Judas Iscariot disbanding because their daddy asked them to.

Also, what's with all the shitty fash users that never post in the forum suddenly talking nonsense about bands they don't even listen to?

I agree with you, but understand that from the Anarchist point of view, voting feels like an approval, a validation of the electoral system, and a continual perpetuation of a system that is oppressive.

I agree with them that the system is flawed and tends to preserve the power structure in place, but our current political system (be it in the US, in Canada, in Quebec or basically any electoral "democracy" in the world, has been useful to promote the rights of many who have been historically oppressed.

Also, when anarchists don't vote, they tend to help the parties that they hate the most, as they would obviously be voting for the most left-leaning parties in their own respective countries. So yeah, I agree with you, but wouldn't consider anarchists to be horrible people just because they are against voting.

Oh I understand the anarchist's reasoning. I just think they're shooting themselves and others in the foot. And looking at the organizations they're sending all the money to, the guys from Dawn Ray'd are clearly not horrible people.

But I'm a huge simp for the electoral system - so when this mentality shows up in the art I consume it tends to sour the whole thing.

Like 99% of NSBM bands and I dont see people being mad about it

You're frothing at the mouth, talking like you have actual points when the single point we can glean from your bull is that you simply hated this band's politics. Most black metal bands that are far right don't have platforms to share their positions on things so they limit that to their coded lyrics and a few places like Bardo Methodology. But nearly every extreme metal band does have to do promotion of some sort, what exactly is your stupid fucking point?

Claiming that Dawn Ray'd was trying to turn metal into pop music because they have an unambivalent political message is so so dumb, you ought to be embarassed. Pray tell, what are the acceptable lyrical themes for metal bands in the year of our lord 2023, O (un)Holy Gatekeeper?

All your beloveds also print merch with their ambiguous messages and logos displayed. Dawn Ray'd was clear what they were about - why the hell wouldn't they have all that proudly placed on their merch? Different rules for different bands depending on your whims, I see?

They claim to be anarchist but clearly hired a press person, signed to a big label, and quit their jobs to be a band? Theres plenty of DIY/Anarchist bands actually out there doing it without all the fluff.

This is not the gotcha you think it is. But let me simplify cause you're stupid. These guys making the most of what their resources are - access to musical instruments, the knowledge to play them, access to platforms and press, living in a country that can afford them these things - and using that to stand up against fascism in a musical scene they care about is commendable. So many extreme metal fans are frustrated with the fascists in the scene and wish there were more acts like this bucking the trend.

Believe it or not, fascism remaining a key identifier of the scene will be the death of it because it will turn off many potential fans. That shit is always on the wrong side of history. All you'll be left with in a few years will be some old geezers reminiscing about the good old days when Varg offed whoever the fuck and Graveland gave no fucks. It's supremely pathetic.

It's just one thing to do to help move the needle a little on certain key issues that we do have to look out for, like LGBT rights and stuff in the US as one big example. But ultimately the US and I assume a lot of these other countries are just fine with keeping the real evils in place, the wealth, the hoarding of it, etc, so while voting is a necessary thing, many of the targets of said votes are completely unworthy of respect before or after you step out of that ballot box. I choose to spend my time outside of that advocating for the people, which is why this band resonated with me earlier this year.

It is indeed super suspicious that you're losing your shit over a band that is supposedly bad and gimmicky. Why do you care so much?

That's the right for you. Moral bankruptcy. They don't have any real ideals besides "fuck everyone that isn't like me". At this point they just want everyone else to lose.

I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt since at least one commenter seemed to concede the message was fine with them, but yeah, a few of these cynical comments are just pure right wing dog whistling...

I mean, I'm sure that some people don't like their music for real, so I'm not lumping all these negative comments in the same category, but some of the comments are... oof...

From a musical standpoint alone, I get that they are also coming from the whole post-black/atmo black/post-hardcore/screamo style à la Deafheaven, which is often looked down upon or frowned upon by a lot of black metal fans. That whole "hipster" black metal aura also probably has a negative impact on how they are perceived by the more traditionnal bm fans.

Yeah it's sort of a perfect storm. A band playing a style already disliked by bm purists criticising the scene these purists hold so dear? You got yourself a lightning rod.

I mean... can you blame them?

Black metal is an amazing musical genre. We can't just roll over and leave it to fascists, can we?

Who? Where?

Yes and what will save the genre right now is hipsters trying to live their little rockstar dreams.

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to come up with a fairly reasonable guess.


I don't think you really know what you're talking about when it comes to anti-electoralism being entitled and harmful. If anything, what is harmful is propagating the myth that any sort of impactful change may come about through voting in a particular set of people. It's also almost wonderfully naive to trust campaign promises (if any). This goes doubly for people who don't even aim for reforming this system at all.

Good band and a breath of fresh air in the ever-dodgy BM scene. Sad to see they're gone, hopefully the members show up elsewhere.

Because we're scary fascists if we don't like Dawn Ray's' music, right? Is that what you are insinuating? Not that fact that their style of RABM wasn't anything special or innovative? Or maybe it was their cringe-worthy videos? Or maybe some people don't like their BM filled with a political agenda, left or right.

God, some of you are just so hell bent on turning every thread on this metal forum into your political soapbox. No one cares and it makes this thread an absolute chore to read.

Nope. There are all sorts of reasons to dislike leftism in metal, only some of which actually have to do with being a fan of fascism.

I'm pretty sure the reason is entirely tied to politics. It's either that, or a completely ludicrous focus on a silly video and music that's evaluated as mediocre. The former makes more sense to me. For all I know, a principled adherence to Stalinism may also fuel this distaste of Dawn Ray'd, dunno.


Too late, that's already been done by people who either like their black metal "apolitical" or something else (shhh).

Tell that to the mother of three that loses half of her benefits because a right wing government won the election. Or the trans person that loses access to life saving healthcare, or the pregnant 15 year old that can't get an abortion anymore. These people don't have the luxury of dreaming about pie in the sky reform. Yes, anti-electoralism is incredibly entitled and harmful.



I mean, considering the band we're talking about we don't have to bend much to start talking politics.

Anyone that thinks the only reason everyone hates Dawn Ray'd is because of their politics is lying to themselves. A couple years ago half of Summoning came out as supporting pretty leftist causes and the black metal scene didn't even bat an eye. The reason people don't like Dawn Ray'd is that they are way too annoying and prominent for a band that sounds so bad and they had an ego about it. But also, the band made it clear that the music aspect of the band was the least important part, so I think it's also fair to hate them for reasons that aren't musical. The music didn't even matter to them. Also to people asking why everyone isn't alslo hating on NSBM that's nothing but blatant propaganda, they do all of the time and have for decades. That's just not the topic of this thread.

Is it? There's evidence in this thread of people agreeing with their politics, but disliking their music. Did you even read the thread before quoting me?



It was started by HeavenDuff when he went on his tangent about anarchism. Funny thing his comment was completely ignored. Now its this babble about anti-voting sentiments...no one cares.

If the reason you dislike em is because you don't think the music is good, then why bother keeping on arguing? If you're secure in that, then accept that some of us think differently than you and move on. Awfully persistent shit posting in here if that's your only concern along with some vague stuff about "hipsters," which I didn't think anyone cared about since like 2014 or so...



Yeah but I mean a lot of centrist politicians don't even support that stuff either; it's just slightly preferable to the outright fascist stuff. That's why it's all pretty fucked.

You keep repeating this as if the band really said that and it's not something you're pulling out of your ass.

They said the reason they chose to play black metal was to say their message in a place where it needed to be said. It fair to draw the conclusion that they didn't care what kind of music they played. They only cared about who heard it. That's why they didn't play death metal or crust. They chose black metal because of its fans, not because they cared about making good black metal, which they didn't. They made the band to become popular. It wasn't about music and that's obvious and why no one will bring them up a year from now.

It's 100% valid and OK that they did all of that, though. Full support.

Music can be political and can be used in service of other things. It can be communal and a tool to spread a message. All fine with me and valid.

Thats fine. But that makes them a gimmick. And their music sucks. And they are annoying.

Do you also think the same of NSBM bands?

And no it does not make them a gimmick unless any band having any message = a gimmick.

Some. But I think a lot of NSBM bands are also black metal fans and care about their music and didn't do everything as some weird scheme to get popular. I dn't think Dawn Ray'd is even sincere in their beliefs. I think they read some books but live probably a lifestyle that's not unlike most other people.

But they obviously cared what kind of music they played, since they believed that black metal specifically was the best place for their message. If they didn't care at all they'd have just made a fanzine or whatever rather than going through the entire process of running a band for almost 10 years.